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Here's an Idea How about a community Board with rotating members

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  • corelogikcorelogik Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    Even the Supreme Court justices have to be approved by majority vote in the Senate. They also don't make or enforce the laws.

    You may want to study up on how US government actually works...

    Naaah! That would be too logical and make too much sense and undermine too many arguments. How can we honestly expect people to learn how things ACTUALLY work before they make their comparisons? /sarcasim

    Seriously though, I wish people would spend more time learning how things are supposed to and do work. Maybe we'd have less of them screaming about how The United States is a Democracy and how everyone needs to have their opinion heard and how in a game and a forum run by a corporation, they have rights.

    F.Y.I. for those that don't know, the only 'right' you have, is not to participate. That's it, that's all. Oh and just because a company is 'public' does not mean that it's PUBLIC and you therefore have your 'constitutional rights' concerning it. All it means is that it is publicly traded.

    You can express your views all you like, but the company is under no obligation what so ever to listen or follow them. That's why I get a kick out of rage quitters that threaten to quit if the company doesn't X.

    The idiocy and self-entitlement of some people never ceases to amaze me, and it really should by now, it really should.
    "Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me
    "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yes, I "see"(understand) your point. But no, I do not agree with it, and never will. Rotated or not, a small group should not get special treatment/attention. We already have a great community manager, and we already have devs that are way more vocal than on most games. We do not need a small group of elites who get special attention.

    fair enough and thank you for responding in such a way that your point was made without insulting anyone..Thnak you so much ..its rare on these forms
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    LOL! Only the BEST people are fit to rule the forum! :rolleyes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FFVWEQnSM

    I'm very happy that Cryptic will pay no attention.

    creative ..lol.. and thank you for your responce
  • crusader0007crusader0007 Member Posts: 85 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    fair enough and thank you for responding in such a way that your point was made without insulting anyone..Thnak you so much ..its rare on these forms

    Kind of ironic since what its being proposed entitles someone to have a "tough skin" and not being too sensitive with other's viewpoints even if the clash with your owns. What good would it do to represent ideas from a minority who are sensivite or poiltically correct while alienating the vast majority of forum posters who are really "straight shooters". Lots of forum posters are strong minded individuals...if one can't withstand the heat why stay in the hot kitchen.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    cidjack wrote: »
    If the suggestion of permanent members to the board, to make sure everyone's view is taken into account, then every leader of a T5 Fleet should be a permanent member.

    After all, any criteria you use to select permanent members, and rotating members would exclude players, which would not be equal and fair.

    that would be a bad idea on many different points having fleet leaders as permanent members.

    1. there are too many fleets and so too many leaders.
    2. some if not all fleet leaders will be duplicitous to a point for their own benefit.
    3. any permanent fleet leader is gauranteed that no matter what they do, they cant be taken down from within the fleet or on the player council because of their permanent status, it can be abused too easily.
    4. egos prevail over reason because of the leadership, the influence and who has the biggest stones, especially during heated arguements about whatever comes up in which one has to win over the other.
    5. everyone outside the fleet system may as well just not play, as fleets mostly ignore players not in the system, that means any ideas these fleet leaders make will likely and exclusively be contained to the fleets than everyone.

    there are other reasons why its just a bad idea.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There is no avoiding politics, you have to take it as a given and work from there for the best outcome.

    Giving the permanent members ermine robes would be a visual cue to others that they weren't elected and couldn't be pressured by election politicking.

    Having people who don't owe their position to others, but have it because of who they are mixed with people who were elected and people who won a seat in a lottery gives the most balance, the. Last resiliency against factionalism and cliques, and the best broad perspective.

    there is is no avoiding it and ive tried many times! but 3 things in life are certain: death, taxes and politics.

    a lottery system can be manipulated when you know how it works. what i am saying is that there isnt a fool proof system that can make the picking process impartial without some sort of stink on it, but you still need to keep an eye out incase something does go awry.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • huskerklghuskerklg Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Even if I have my severe reservations.

    Justifiable reservations in my experience.

    I've been in multiple games that had them at one point, and the vast majority of the time the people involved get disillusioned fast because they really have no power in the end.

    They start out great, fully of energy and excitement They gather up community suggestions, and write them down and create expansive ideas to give to the Devs. But most of it will be ignored. They then slowly stop bothering more and more until eventually a call comes out to replace the inactive person, and the whole thing starts over again.

    And that generally is the best case scenario. I've seen the counsel members act like the Emperor with No Cloths, trying control everything. Reps that don't care about the community and are only in it for their own agendas.

    We can create community counsels all we want, in the end, nothing does has any sway with the company, and tend to bring more problems than they solve.
  • huskerklghuskerklg Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    BTW the Event change, is a perfect example of how much this company will care what a counsel of players says... as in zilch.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OK, so 13 pages in, with the majority of people overwhelmingly opposed to this idea, I have to ask: is there any chance this is actually going to happen? If not...this really isn't STO discussion, and is only causing needless drama.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • admiralkristovadmiralkristov Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    No. That's why council members should be given alternate forum identities and operate under mandatory anonymity. And permanent forum bans handed out to council members that leak their real identities as well as bans for people trying to impersonate council members.

    Council members couldn't be pressured, bullied, or coerced if no one knows who they really are.

    Wow, that sounds wonderfully transparent and a great way for players to trust that they are being represented....
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,035 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I think drama only comes from unfairness, and thats why a player advocate council would need to be organized with an eye firmly locked on fairness.

    And in order to be fair to everyone, both the bold faced names and the common players, certain measures could be taken to structure the council in such a way that the former were neither punished for their success nor given an advantage over the latter.

    By having permanent seats for people who have excelled, either in their financial support for the game, their accomplishments in the game, or their accomplishments in the community, like NoP, Dental, and the DPS folks, and having rotating seats for the common players.

    But even for the common players, reserving seats for different caucuses on the forums like the super whiners and the white knights and the pvp heroes.

    And juxtaposing those with wild card seats, chosen both by general election and by lottery.

    To finish the system, and make it transparent, a set of special in game clothes for the members - ermine robes for those holding permanent seats and arm bands for those occupying rotating seats.

    This way players would always know who they were talking to, and whether they owed their position to popularity or accomplishment.

    Forget the idiotic idea of permanent seats.

    Permanent seats are a very, very bad idea. No one, NO ONE should have a permanent seat on any game council ever. Period.

    Permanency means there is no incentive for that person to do what is right, fair or in the best interests of everyone. Permanency means there is no recourse for getting rid of that person should they not be doing what the community wants.

    Let go of the idea of permanent positions of every kind. It's not going to work, ever.

    If you want to be a member of a council, have other people vote and elect you. Everyone has an equal chance to get elected. Everyone has an equal chance to vote for whomever they want. That is fair, not some completely biased means of selecting a chosen few based on how much they have spent or what in-game resources they have.

    Take some time to read the old threads and articles about why the Player Council idea was a complete and total disaster 5 years ago.

    Thats why its important to have members with strong backgrounds. Look at a fleet like Starfleet Dental, they get abuse and hatred heaped on them, but it never changes their decisions, they stick by principles and can't be swayed by pressure or abuse.

    Most hilarious post I've read today lol. Thanks. :)
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OK, so 13 pages in, with the majority of people overwhelmingly opposed to this idea, I have to ask: is there any chance this is actually going to happen? If not...this really isn't STO discussion, and is only causing needless drama.

    its not impossible to work it, but if trendy does have something that could work we have not discovered yet...

    but yeah, any political based system for the player community board is doomed to failure because each type of system is treacherous, it was never going to really work... unless.. *puts tin foil hat on* you start thinking of a shadow group where some players pull strings out of the communities sight in order to make changes that suit them, a new galaxy order! :D
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    People are worried about the members being pressured or bullied or somehow coerced. Someone brought up that a player in the original scheme quit over harassment.

    Thats why its important to have members with strong backgrounds. Look at a fleet like Starfleet Dental, they get abuse and hatred heaped on them, but it never changes their decisions, they stick by principles and can't be swayed by pressure or abuse.

    i can speak from personal experience in that area that this type of idea as well is never something you want to consider. i have had been bullied for 9 years and a half growing up, and growing cold to outside influences years later. i mean people insult me all the time and i dont pay any attention to it nor do i feel for it because its happened all the time, with that in mind you start thinking of what you want and what you can change, now imagine how it would turn out if sfd decided to turn the game on its head on purpose and infuriate the community no end? they wouldnt care, why should they, to every other player its their own fault for putting sfd on that high perch and how they react over the whole thing and sfd only needs buckets of popcorn to watch the nerd rage and laugh the whole thing.

    sfd has a history of heavy trolling, i would never trust them to be honest or impartial.

    being uncompromising doesnt make it a good prospect for leadership.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I disagree, people who have spent the most have contributed the most financially to keeping the game alive.

    Notice I don't think its only them who should have permanent upper tier seats, also people who have accomplished the most in game, the space rich, and people in leadership roles in the community like NoP, the DPS channels, and SFD.

    The bold faced names, the people who make a mark.

    Also it wouldn't be fair to common players if it was an election, since the people mentioned above have more resources and influence, it wouldn't be a fair contest.

    So, split it into two tiers, permanent and rotating. The rotating seats would be open to selection by lottery or election.

    Different caucuses like the super whiners and the white knights could pick reps, the pvp forum could have its member.

    And ermine robes in game for the permanent members so players could easily identify them to lobby and ask questions. Maybe some kind of arm band for the rotating members.

    You do realize how elitist and rediculous this sounds right? These 'rotating' positions would be laughable at best to the permanent members, especially if they are sfd trolls... I doubt the vast majority of us in doffjobs and the dps channels are a representative sample of the majority of the player base..

    If we go that route it should be somebody from a not so huge fleet that actually represents the average player thats not so vocal like the aforementioned groups because they wont have any pre existing agenda. I think rotating all positions with trendy being the awesome as always queen bee would be the way to go.

    Make her a gateway between a representative sample of players that meet with her and the dev team. A tunnel of contact if you will outside of the forums. Maybe have a sticky thread for each say monthly meeting for suggestions to be discussed and then address them. Sort of an ask cryptic but with an ability to voice back ideas and opinions in a structured format.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,035 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You do realize how elitist and rediculous this sounds right? These 'rotating' positions would be laughable at best to the permanent members, especially if they are sfd trolls... I doubt the vast majority of us in doffjobs and the dps channels are a representative sample of the majority of the player base..

    If we go that route it should be somebody from a not so huge fleet that actually represents the average player thats not so vocal like the aforementioned groups because they wont have any pre existing agenda. I think rotating all positions with trendy being the awesome as always queen bee would be the way to go.

    If Cryptic really wants everyone's voice to be heard, then add polls to the launcher that are required to be answered before login. That way every player, EVERY player has an opportunity to provide their vote.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    If Cryptic really wants everyone's voice to be head, then add polls to the launcher that are required to be answered before login. That way every player, EVERY player has an opportunity to provide their vote.

    Aye thats not a horrible idea.. That way its not just a poll the few forum goers will see
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,911 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You do realize how elitist and rediculous this sounds right? These 'rotating' positions would be laughable at best to the permanent members, especially if they are sfd trolls... I doubt the vast majority of us in doffjobs and the dps channels are a representative sample of the majority of the player base..

    Of course he realizes it, which is why he posted it.

    I guess not everyone understands Dentals methods yet. Their entire focus and purpose is to try and troll as many people as possible. Of course what he posted was ridiculous, that's why he posted it.

    And it worked, like it usually does. The thread exploded. Stop feeding the Dental Trolls. :cool:
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Of course he realizes it, which is why he posted it.

    I guess not everyone understands Dentals methods yet. Their entire focus and purpose is to try and troll as many people as possible. Of course what he posted was ridiculous, that's why he posted it.

    And it worked, like it usually does. The thread exploded. Stop feeding the Dental Trolls. :cool:

    Lol.. After over four years you think i wouldve learned by now :)
  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Of course he realizes it, which is why he posted it.

    I guess not everyone understands Dentals methods yet. Their entire focus and purpose is to try and troll as many people as possible. Of course what he posted was ridiculous, that's why he posted it.

    And it worked, like it usually does. The thread exploded. Stop feeding the Dental Trolls. :cool:

    if its true, it looks like the running joke backfired spectacurly when everyone else was constructing good comments and the trolling part of the thread was ignored if that was the intent.. doesnt matter if the OP comes back to laugh, because ironically its a helpful thread now and all the op will be doing if he comes out to play is point a finger at himself as to how badly it backfired..
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,911 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    if its true, it looks like the running joke backfired spectacurly when everyone else was constructing good comments and the trolling part of the thread was ignored if that was the intent.. doesnt matter if the OP comes back to laugh, because ironically its a helpful thread now and all the op will be doing if he comes out to play is point a finger at himself as to how badly it backfired..

    I wasn't referring to the OP in my comment.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,426 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I was a member of something similiar in Tabula Rasa and it didn't work. The problem ended up that the positions were filled by the devs and fired by the devs. Much like Cryptic's small focus groups they tended to be filled by those the devs trusted and liked, which often translated to those who agreed with the devs development path and goals. When they were filled by those who the community wanted in, often their input was ignored or twisted, or filled not by the best candidate but the most popular. Mind you as I said I was one of those picked to be on the community reps, so I was one of the inside. To this day I still miss Tabula Rasa but I feel that the community group was still ineffectual at best and at most helped with its demise (though many other larger things were more the bigger cause.)
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,828 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    ladymyajha wrote: »
    I was a member of something similiar in Tabula Rasa and it didn't work. The problem ended up that the positions were filled by the devs and fired by the devs. Much like Cryptic's small focus groups they tended to be filled by those the devs trusted and liked, which often translated to those who agreed with the devs development path and goals. When they were filled by those who the community wanted in, often their input was ignored or twisted, or filled not by the best candidate but the most popular. Mind you as I said I was one of those picked to be on the community reps, so I was one of the inside. To this day I still miss Tabula Rasa but I feel that the community group was still ineffectual at best and at most helped with its demise (though many other larger things were more the bigger cause.)

    The whole concept is doomed. I am amazed that this is still being discussed, everyone capable of rational thought should know that this doesn't work...
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • mirrorchaosmirrorchaos Member Posts: 9,817 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I wasn't referring to the OP in my comment.

    are you completely sure of that? the reason i replied is specifically because the context of your message indicated that you writing about the thread, therefore its also as a whole point related to the OP regarding the means and motives otherwise this thread would not exist.
    T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW.
    Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,481 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am not going to wade through all of this, which I am sure as most threads go has a whole bunch of attacks, etc. However, that being said, I believe what is being asked for here is similar to the Player's Council that LOTRO instituted about three years ago. Players apply to be on it with a resume of sort related to the game, the company selects from those for membership to the Council for a year. They provided input to the Company on quality-of-life issues and to bounce ideas back and forth on game related systems and changes.

    I believe there was a larger group selected to the Council and a smaller contingent of Players who were chosen to be like the 'Board'. Those members of the 'Board' would actually go to HQ and meet with the Devs and Community Relations and provide a more detailed input. When release notes were issued for Major Updates the Council would be credited for their suggestions that were implemented (e.g., such and such change to how Housing was changed, or this and that new feature, etc.).
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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  • daka86daka86 Member Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If you like this Idea pls move to EVE :D
    Ore make a Fleet and then you can make this thing happen:P.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,035 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    There is a real danger that they'd just pick bootlickers though, or that the people picked wouldnt be representative of a diversity of view points.

    Thats why I think a mix between permanent seats to which people are entitled through some accomplishment, like spending a ton on the game, being really space rich, having the top DPS, or leading the community like NoP, Dental, and DPS channels do, and people picked from and by the common players.

    There are certain clearly identifiable cliques already on the forum, there's the super whiners, the white knights, the pvp ghetto, etc.

    Let them caucus and pick representatives from within their own ranks, and then have other wildcard seats for election, and also seats picked by lot, to ensure everyone has some baseline level of chance of getting a rotating seat, even if they arent popular on the forums or dont follow the forums at all.

    Also, as an incentive, people on the council should get some in game item. For those entitled to permanent seats ermine robes, and for those elected to rotating seats, armbands.

    This way players would know in game who their representatives were.

    People are not entitled to anything, no matter how much you've spent. You're not a shareholder in PWE or Cryptic by spending money on this game.

    Permanent seats is perhaps the absolute stupidest, worst and most idiotic idea ever posted to these game forums.

    There is zero, ZERO incentive for anyone with a permanent position to do what the community wants. They can't be removed, so why bother helping the community? Just push their own agenda.

    As I said before, if you want equal and fair, post polls in the launcher and have them required to be answered before login. Every single player, regardless of F2P or premium, how much you've spent or how much you have has a vote. That's equality, not some sub-moronic notion of permanent positions.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • whamhammer1whamhammer1 Member Posts: 2,290 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    valoreah wrote: »
    People are not entitled to anything, no matter how much you've spent. You're not a shareholder in PWE or Cryptic by spending money on this game.

    Permanent seats is perhaps the absolute stupidest, worst and most idiotic idea ever posted to these game forums.

    There is zero, ZERO incentive for anyone with a permanent position to do what the community wants. They can't be removed, so why bother helping the community? Just push their own agenda.

    As I said before, if you want equal and fair, post polls in the launcher and have them required to be answered before login. Every single player, regardless of F2P or premium, how much you've spent or how much you have has a vote. That's equality, not some sub-moronic notion of permanent positions.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I especially would be concerned if a fleet that posts up its own YouTube videos of its griefing of others would become a permanent seat of representation. Thats not the sort of leadership that should represent the player base.
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