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Here's an Idea How about a community Board with rotating members

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  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    cptjhunter wrote: »
    (Munching popcorn) This thread should go well.

    not sure what to expect but I hope something good comes out of it ..
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,808 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yes to Trendy, no to a council claiming to speak for me.

    I see enough forum posts already claiming to speak for "most players", and more than enough claiming that because they've been playing longer or have spent more that they understand how the game "should be." Often followed by entitled ranting and demands to the "lazy" devs.
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Look at the flak our volunteer mods get, the TRIBBLE a player council would get would be exponentially worse.
    .

    but would it? things could be spoken about or delt with in an adult manner before being put out there for all to see.. in some cases it might resolve an issue before it takes flight .. maybe right ..
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    she Totaly does..but I am trying to see if we can make things better..the forms are full of mud fights and trolls if issues and be constructivly brought up it might make the game play better..

    Nope, still no. More reasons here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=23835731&postcount=24

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jam3s1701 wrote: »
    Your going no where Trendy.

    your job is forever so says me lol.

    you've done more for us in last few months than I can recall anyone else doing in years..

    So simply put you rock.

    so for the forth, fifth or maybe even sixth time I did word that wrong I have said I am sorry to Trendy and corrected my mistake.. now there is a suggestion within my post that has nothing todo with Trendy she does do a great Job
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am strongly opposed to any "player council" or "board of representatives" or whatever else you want to call it. Why? First, because no one speaks for anyone else. Just because we both play the same game does not mean we agree on what we want, so no one "represents" me but myself, and the same is true of each player.

    Second, one person's views should not be more important or more listened to than another's. If someone wants to voice their opinion or feedback, they can post on the forums like everybody else. But one person should not have some exclusive line of communication to get their favorite ideas heard.

    Lastly, Trendy already does a great job of communicating between the devs and the playerbase, and the devs of this game are already a lot more vocal, both in forum posts and podcast interviews, than most other games. So for all of these reasons, NO.

    I totally agree with the part about Trendy; But I am suggesting a rotating board..Different people giving input about different things.. not any on person or group holding a crown; also it would be to see clearly and issue and if it can be resolved without having to scroll though pages of trolls and mud being thrown around...

    So I see your point .. but please try and see mine as well..just give it a thought or two..
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Yes to Trendy, no to a council claiming to speak for me.

    I see enough forum posts already claiming to speak for "most players", and more than enough claiming that because they've been playing longer or have spent more that they understand how the game "should be." Often followed by entitled ranting and demands to the "lazy" devs.

    wow yea I have seen that also.. so a rotating board that consisted of old and new players might just make things a bit better..
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I totally agree with the part about Trendy; But I am suggesting a rotating board..Different people giving input about different things.. not any on person or group holding a crown; also it would be to see clearly and issue and if it can be resolved without having to scroll though pages of trolls and mud being thrown around...

    So I see your point .. but please try and see mine as well..just give it a thought or two..

    Yes, I "see"(understand) your point. But no, I do not agree with it, and never will. Rotated or not, a small group should not get special treatment/attention. We already have a great community manager, and we already have devs that are way more vocal than on most games. We do not need a small group of elites who get special attention.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • nitewingnycnitewingnyc Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This is a great idea! I nominate myself as Director of Community Member Relations. Trendy, you now report to me first. First manner of business, ALL bacon be banned. It is not good for you. Second, I need a group of underlings to pretend they have a voice. Any nominees?

    smashing example of trolling ..Thank you
  • pwlaughingtrendypwlaughingtrendy Member Posts: 2,966 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ok guys. Let's not knock this thread down about me or the orange text. I think that while I have seen various instances of player-run council ideas implemented, I still think it's worth discussing. Even if I have my severe reservations.

    (I have my own ideas and plans that I'm working on. That being said I'd like to see how this talk goes)
  • wildweasalwildweasal Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This could very well work if implemented correctly of course the problem I see is if the wrong people are chosen to represent the community
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    wildweasal wrote: »
    This could very well work if implemented correctly of course the problem I see is if the wrong people are chosen to represent the community

    Honestly, it's a PR nightmare. People lobbying to be chosen(either by votes from their fellow players or by "sucking up" to the devs), accusations of favoritism from people who don't agree with the people who are chosen or with the devs giving special attention to their feedback. This is one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but in practice would only wind up causing more division by making some people seem more important than others.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • dabelgravedabelgrave Member Posts: 979 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    My big issues are not big issues for someone else. Someone else's big issues are not big issues to me. Ultimately, someone would not be fully represented.
  • gorillachopsgorillachops Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I like turtles.
    giphy.gif
  • grnlbrtnfrntgrnlbrtnfrnt Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Wait, my position isn't around anymore? :eek:

    im not clear what it is you actually do. seems like most of what you do could be done by a bot.
    [SIGPIC]PWE IS NOT A REPUTABLE COMPANY[/SIGPIC]
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Ok guys. Let's not knock this thread down about me or the orange text. I think that while I have seen various instances of player-run council ideas implemented, I still think it's worth discussing. Even if I have my severe reservations.

    (I have my own ideas and plans that I'm working on. That being said I'd like to see how this talk goes)

    Well, at a minimum, I think that there are steps that could be taken to increase communication quality. That doesn't mean doing everything the players say, but one of the critical things I think has been missing from the community for a long time is the sense of a true two-way dialogue (that aspect I see you working on a bit, though sometimes I worry you're stuck in the situation I was in one job of trying to do so with only partial support), and a sense that the devs recognize that the customers define what constitutes quality, as opposed to that being pushed on us (because if you make the best widget in the world but the customers want a sprocket, it isn't quality and they won't buy), and that user acceptance testing does not mean force the issue more until we acquiesce out of weariness. That doesn't necessarily mean that's what any particular individual on your team is going into the office with the intention of doing. That, however, is the perception that comes across sometimes.

    That is the frustration that leads to proposals like this. For another comparison, a similar sort of communication breakdown within a company seriously increases the threat of its employees unionizing. (Note: To anyone who is not reading my post carefully, I DID NOT say anything about Cryptic's or PWE's employees there. That was a hypothetical example. Period.) When communications are going better, even when there are issues, people feel a greater sense that they can work things out and are less likely to resort to extreme measures like that.

    I know I have had thoughts about revamping how bug acknowledgment and bug status updates occur, as well as a number of other things. And the "player council" thing has crossed my mind too, hence throwing in my ideas on this thread.

    But what it boils down to in the end is that there is a perceived, serious problem with two-way communication, and that is what I think the OP is trying to address.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    smashing example of trolling ..Thank you

    They offered disapproval of the idea in their own way. They disagreed. How is that trolling? What they said was no different than them saying they feel it is a bad idea...they just said it a different way.

    Part of any group or even an individual reviewing feedback would be to take not of that and mark it in the "no" column or possibly as "highly opposed" if it was one of those survey things that offered a range of feelings on a particular matter.

    One might have considered my orange thing to be more a trolling thing (but honestly, the orange, the arial font, on the new background color - I couldn't read it and it was annoying. I miss the old black background - would have had no problem reading the orange on the black, but with the shade of gray they've got - it literally blurs for me. Annoying too, cause I used to color code certain posts that I did with things - and - that went to Hell with how the colors look on this background)...but when you did that initial reply without the orange, aha, didn't take it as you intentionally trying to assault folks with that particular choice. (Meh, there's a guy in another thread that decided to reply to everything I said in a couple of posts in red - just blew my mind, with how painful the red is to read on this background.)

    But what that guy said...just simple disapproval which would be noted as such and that's that.

    Turtles? Cats? Now that would be derailment/trolling/etc...which is odd after Trendy asked folks not to do it, eh?
  • demonicaestheticdemonicaesthetic Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Honestly, it's a PR nightmare. People lobbying to be chosen(either by votes from their fellow players or by "sucking up" to the devs), accusations of favoritism from people who don't agree with the people who are chosen or with the devs giving special attention to their feedback. This is one of those ideas that sound great on paper, but in practice would only wind up causing more division by making some people seem more important than others.

    Yeah... Rotated how exactly...

    Supposedly this is to 'keep trolls' out, but if the 'rotation system' is fair, eventually trolls (depending on who is doing the defining) will rotate in, do you want the only members of the community to be listened to, to be trolls?

    So, then you put in some vetting system, who exactly does the vetting? PWE? Expect the council to be made of sycophantic yes men... "The community demands more grind!"


    Maybe you could have a third rotating council to vet people for the second rotating council who vet people for the first rotating council...

    Or...

    Let's not and say we did...
    <center><font size="+5"><b>Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day...
    Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life...</b></size></center>
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I agree the "yes man" thing would be a concern. While I have NOT actually listened to the podcast(s) in question, so I can't vouch for whether it's actually true, this is an accusation that has been made of some of the venues where devs have communicated with players in the past, that they are run by those who allow the staff to duck hard questions, or not bring tough concerns to their attention.

    Any council--or really ANY improved communication method--requires a commitment that neither side will adopt a bunker mentality when it comes to communication with the other. That is, staff cannot run from ideas that challenge them, even fundamentally. And in return, players must not spoil for a fight by making their response to anything that happens into a personal attack.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I can only see this idea being fair if the major fleets like SFD and NoP each get a permanent position on the board.

    Would "Excluded" be a good permanent position? Could even give them the appropriate forum title to help them stand out? ;)
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gulberat wrote: »
    Any council--or really ANY improved communication method--requires a commitment that neither side will adopt a bunker mentality when it comes to communication with the other. That is, staff cannot run from ideas that challenge them, even fundamentally. And in return, players must not spoil for a fight by making their response to anything that happens into a personal attack.

    And who is going to enforce that? Trendy? Based on what? How many people would she need telling her "they aren't listening to us" before she was obligated to take action? And what if other people disagree and say "they are listening". Like I said before, this would be a PR nightmare.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • mailman650mailman650 Member Posts: 159 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Last time the idea of a community board pop up, the devs were the ones to bring it up and that crashed and burned before it ever took off the ground. It was way, way back in the early Dstahl days. I still vaguely remember the fancy graphic they made for it.
  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Nicest way I can say this. I think there is about 4 players on this forum I would trust in any level of power.

    Let Trendy do her trendy things and we just game?
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    And who is going to enforce that? Trendy? Based on what? How many people would she need telling her "they aren't listening to us" before she was obligated to take action? Like I said before, this would be a PR nightmare.

    It can't be enforced. But since the subject of communication has been opened, I am trying to offer food for thought in addition to more "structural" types of changes. But since it is a mindset, that is on anyone who reads it to decide to make that effort. It is advice that I would like to hope players and staff would take on board as they formulate their approaches. Consider me an armchair consultant. ;)

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Though I am personally opposed to this idea, I am also interested in how many people support/oppose it. Therefore, here is a simple poll:

    http://strawpoll.me/4354197

    As I am posting this link several pages into this thread, I would like to ask anyone who votes to please quote this post so other people will see the link.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • swamarianswamarian Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Presumably, the council would be using a private board or mailing list, and would be obliged to keep their deliberations private. I've been a secret master for a PnP game, and it worked pretty well.
    I don't see it working that well for Cryptic. Back when the upgrade system was going to be released, I was watching the tribble forums. People were compiling lists of what would and wouldn't upgrade after every patch. The list of items with problems would go down after every patch but there was still a lot with problems. Cryptic's reaction was to release it early, with predictable results. As long as Cryptic's governed by a schedule dictated from above, and won't listen to their own QA people, I don't see a player council doing much good.
    I think that Trendy's had a positive influence, but I'm not sure that it's enough.
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,353 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    This is a terrible idea. At best, it would be a feel good gesture with no impact at all. At worst, it would be abused beyond all get out and would be used for no reason other than trolling people.

    People on the InterWebs will always live down to the lowest expectations of them. The anonymity and lack of accountability for one's actions guarantees this.

    Power corrupts. Human history is littered with examples of this. The current state of world affairs, both abroad and at home in any country where this game is played confirms this.

    What we have right now may not be effective or efficient. But it is far better than the OP's suggestion.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
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