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A letter to Cryptic and the mods

24

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    maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    starkaos wrote: »
    It is just too bad that the original Coke was banned a few years after it was released.
    Well Coke still has coca leaves in it they've just been processed to remove the....stuff we can't talk about here.
    If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
    Oh Hell NO to ARC
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    BTW, my fleet died. Becoming a trend though. Get in a fleet, it dies, get in another, it dies, so on, so forth. Friend list also kaput. If you are telling me that the game is not failing, then why is this so?

    Maybe you have really lousy taste in friends and fleets? My friends list is still pretty healthy, and the fleet I lead is actually more active now than it has been in the last year. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal for both you and I. Neither your experience, nor mine is representative of a majority.
    So of us would like to see the game improved. Some of us would like to see major improvements in the beta tests (like bug screening, and other responses to player feedback).

    I do not believe there is a single player in STO or on the STO forums who doesn't want the game to be improved or see bugs fixed.
    It is not just that they are ignoring us, but it also seems like they get mad at us for giving "I don't like this" as feedback.

    This isn't the case at all. If anything, I've seen more devs post recently speaking about bugs and looking for more feedback on upcoming changes. flyingtarg, Borticus, callevista just to name some examples off the top of my head.

    We've been getting patches on a fairly regular basis that are fixing bugs. Including bugs that have been mentioned and verified on the forums.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    Maybe you have really lousy taste in friends and fleets? My friends list is still pretty healthy, and the fleet I lead is actually more active now than it has been in the last year. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal for both you and I. Neither your experience, nor mine is representative of a majority.



    I do not believe there is a single player in STO or on the STO forums who doesn't want the game to be improved or see bugs fixed.



    This isn't the case at all. If anything, I've seen more devs post recently speaking about bugs and looking for more feedback on upcoming changes. flyingtarg, Borticus, callevista just to name some examples off the top of my head.

    We've been getting patches on a fairly regular basis that are fixing bugs. Including bugs that have been mentioned and verified on the forums.

    A.My friends where generous and helping.
    B.A simple grammar mistake, and apology later:
    Latest Infractions Received
    Post Date Expires Points Reason Posted By
    Private 02-02-2015
    11:22 AM Never 5 Discussing Moderation/Posting Private Correspondence
    Here is how I see things: 01-28-2015
    10:15 PM Never 5 Hate Speech
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I once got a speeding ticket for going 60 in a 35 area. It was night. There was barely any traffic. But I still got pulled over and despite apologizing to the police officer, I still got a ticket and I was fined.

    It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact I think the police in my area are lazy half-wits who can't do their job right.

    I was just breaking the law and they were doing their job exactly as they were instructed to.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    I once got a speeding ticket for going 60 in a 35 area. It was night. There was barely any traffic. But I still got pulled over and despite apologizing to the police officer, I still got a ticket and I was fined.

    It had absolutely nothing to do with the fact I think the police in my area are lazy half-wits who can't do their job right.

    I was just breaking the law and they were doing their job exactly as they were instructed to.

    I was penalized for the apology.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,554 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OP, since you will be rage quitting soon:

    can I haz ur stuffs?
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    I was penalized for the apology.

    Despite knowing discussion of moderation is against the Terms of Service.

    Yeah. I would have been found in contempt of court if I harassed the judge and tried apologizing further after the gavel was dropped and the verdict given. There is a point where I just start making the situation worse by running my mouth instead of keeping it shut and getting over it.

    Despite being mouthy and opinionated, there are times I know when to stay quiet. Getting in trouble over being mouthy is something I've experienced multiple times throughout my life.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    I was penalized for the apology.

    The initial thread is closed but still there. The "apology" thread was deleted, no? Cause it was discussing moderation...just like this one is...and if it's still going come Monday, it will likely be deleted.
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    thescottybthescottyb Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited May 2015

    It always amazes me when I find out that there is an "original" to something, and what I'm familiar with is a parody. I just wish I could be more... explicit... about the reference.
    Unofficial Skill Planner v0.8 last updated 6 May 2016
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    Despite knowing discussion of moderation is against the Terms of Service.

    Yeah. I would have been found in contempt of court if I harassed the judge and tried apologizing further after the gavel was dropped and the verdict given. There is a point where I just start making the situation worse by running my mouth instead of keeping it shut and getting over it.

    Despite being mouthy and opinionated, there are times I know when to stay quiet. Getting in trouble over being mouthy is something I've experienced multiple times throughout my life.

    Look at the permanent charge I was hit with; the "posting private correspondence" one; I don't even know what I did to get that one.
    Also, I know someone else with the same troubles.

    Edit: I was hit with that charge for the apology. I looks like he was so mad at me that the lesser charge wouldn't do.
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    *looks up at the forum heading* Ok just had to be sure. There for a minute I thought I had accidently clicked on to Scarllet Blades forum.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
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    tiekosoratiekosora Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    OP, since you will be rage quitting soon:

    can I haz ur stuffs?

    Can't, it's at the least bound to account. Maybe his tradeskill stuffs...
    18EOWbV.jpg

    They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs, they do their part.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,409 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Look at the permanent charge I was hit with; the "posting private correspondence" one; I don't even know what I did to get that one.
    Also, I know someone else with the same troubles.
    If you reposted any part of the message that was sent you regarding your ban, that was personal correspondence.

    I don't say this with any hope of your understanding; the existence of this thread is adequate proof that you are incapable of learning.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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    shinnok918shinnok918 Member Posts: 312 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    I was penalized for the apology.

    so don't apologize. that was your first mistake. now id better quit typing. apologize might be the new cuss word of the day.
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    starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    I do not believe there is a single player in STO or on the STO forums who doesn't want the game to be improved or see bugs fixed.

    Since there are players that are seriously asking for STO Rebirth to become reality so they can relive the good old days before upgrading, reputation, specializations, and other recent changes became reality, there are some players that don't want the game to be improved or see bugs fixed.
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Look at the permanent charge I was hit with; the "posting private correspondence" one; I don't even know what I did to get that one.

    Well, first of all... I don't care. This may seem misleading, but hear me out on this. I don't care about what you did. Most people on the forums aren't going to care about what you did, either. Most people on the forums can barely remember threads that happened a day or more ago. So why anyone would care over what you did (or allegedley did) is pretty slim.

    The only reason anyone cares what you said or did is because of two things.

    The people who gave you infractions. Because it's their job to do so. It's nothing personal. You broke the rules, and they're obligated to do something about it if it's warranted (apparently in this case it was).

    The people who are now only recognizing you as the person who just can't let this go and feels like pointing out that the mods don't do anything on the weekends, so it gives you a few days of attention before Monday comes around and you get an infraction again.

    They don't care about what you did, either. They just care about the fact you're unwilling to let this go in the face of more moderator actions.

    You are not so important that people are running some kind of "STO's Most Wanted" website with a list of your internet forum crimes for the public to see. There is no STO Court of Public Opinion. Most people don't care about what you have to say. Most people don't care about what I have to say.

    This is why this is a popcorn thread. You're just plain entertaining.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    iconians wrote: »
    Despite knowing discussion of moderation is against the Terms of Service.

    Yeah. I would have been found in contempt of court if I harassed the judge and tried apologizing further after the gavel was dropped and the verdict given. There is a point where I just start making the situation worse by running my mouth instead of keeping it shut and getting over it.

    Despite being mouthy and opinionated, there are times I know when to stay quiet. Getting in trouble over being mouthy is something I've experienced multiple times throughout my life.

    And in some situations... punched in the face.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Look at the permanent charge I was hit with; the "posting private correspondence" one; I don't even know what I did to get that one.
    Also, I know someone else with the same troubles.

    Did you discuss in any fashion in an open thread something you received via private message or from an email from Cryptic staff, PWE staff, or the volunteer moderators?
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    shinnok918 wrote: »
    so don't apologize. that was your first mistake. now id better quit typing. apologize might be the new cuss word of the day.

    Proves my point, it is like they don't want me.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Proves my point, it is like they don't want me.

    "Hey guys, recently I said something on the forums that was taken the wrong way. For those that saw it, that wasn't my intent. Still, I want to apologize to those that found it offensive. If you don't know what I'm talking about - don't worry about it. For the others, again - didn't mean it that way, but I'm still sorry for having said it."

    Wasn't how the apology thread went for that initial thread...
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    Did you discuss in any fashion in an open thread something you received via private message or from an email from Cryptic staff, PWE staff, or the volunteer moderators?

    Not really, just that I was banned for something everyone knew about.
    "Hey guys, recently I said something on the forums that was taken the wrong way. For those that saw it, that wasn't my intent. Still, I want to apologize to those that found it offensive. If you don't know what I'm talking about - don't worry about it. For the others, again - didn't mean it that way, but I'm still sorry for having said it."

    Wasn't how the apology thread went for that initial thread...

    I was still being humble and nice about it then, even with the reception.

    Edit: I may have made mistakes, but I wasn't intending harm in the end, just amends. After all, the community management (openly) humiliated me. Was I mad about it? Yes. Did I do anything about the anger? No. I was mending my reputation with being honest. And look at where being humbly honest got me...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Not really, just that I was banned for something everyone knew about.

    Mentioning that you were banned...how do you know you were banned and that something was going on...you received private correspondence from them about it.

    It's like when I joke about having the Aug instead of Jun date there because they decided I needed a little vacation because of something I said...voila...that's violating the TOS.

    If Trendy or one of the mods decides that I shouldn't do that, there's nothing I can say about it - I know I shouldn't do that.

    If I've gotten a warning that I don't agree with, I'll let them know that I don't agree with it by replying. If I get a warning on something I should have known better than doing, I'll respond with an apology.

    Guess what, that's violating TOS again by discussing the moderation. But it's a case of trying to point out how one can handle disagreements with things...and...how one has to accept things they know they did wrong. Again, if one of the mods decides to drop out a warning about my discussing that, I can't say anything - just apologize, explain why I was doing it, but apologize all the same cause I knew what I was doing in doing it.

    It's simply a case that the forums are not the place to discuss moderation. Don't get me wrong, I was part of the angry mob that was ticked off over Damian's threads always being moved from the PvP forums to Ten Forward...but if they'd slapped me on the wrist or smacked me on the back of the head...I wouldn't have a leg to stand on cause I knew what I was doing was wrong.

    If a volunteer mod does something you don't agree with...take it up with Trendy at this point. Guessing it was Smirk that did the initial, not sure about the second. But Trendy's still going to enforce the rules and if it was a case of breaking them, that's pretty much that. Going on and breaking even more in trying to argue about it will only make things worse.
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    Mentioning that you were banned...how do you know you were banned and that something was going on...you received private correspondence from them about it.

    It's like when I joke about having the Aug instead of Jun date there because they decided I needed a little vacation because of something I said...voila...that's violating the TOS.

    If Trendy or one of the mods decides that I shouldn't do that, there's nothing I can say about it - I know I shouldn't do that.

    If I've gotten a warning that I don't agree with, I'll let them know that I don't agree with it by replying. If I get a warning on something I should have known better than doing, I'll respond with an apology.

    Guess what, that's violating TOS again by discussing the moderation. But it's a case of trying to point out how one can handle disagreements with things...and...how one has to accept things they know they did wrong. Again, if one of the mods decides to drop out a warning about my discussing that, I can't say anything - just apologize, explain why I was doing it, but apologize all the same cause I knew what I was doing in doing it.

    It's simply a case that the forums are not the place to discuss moderation. Don't get me wrong, I was part of the angry mob that was ticked off over Damian's threads always being moved from the PvP forums to Ten Forward...but if they'd slapped me on the wrist or smacked me on the back of the head...I wouldn't have a leg to stand on cause I knew what I was doing was wrong.

    If a volunteer mod does something you don't agree with...take it up with Trendy at this point. Guessing it was Smirk that did the initial, not sure about the second. But Trendy's still going to enforce the rules and if it was a case of breaking them, that's pretty much that. Going on and breaking even more in trying to argue about it will only make things worse.
    That a lot of weaving along the lines if you ask me. I didn't know it was wrong to say that I was banned, nor did I know that it was as bad as hate speech. I am not a lawyer. But even many layers would not see this. Why? Because we are only human, not machines. We make mistakes. So why practice zero tolerance for mistakes? Are they mad at me?
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    neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It was not a degree in Grammar & Punctuation



    After a quick search I now remember OP, and that Dog comment

    Dude, seriously No one cares, well i do, but for all the wrong reasons
    GwaoHAD.png
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    That a lot of weaving along the lines if you ask me. I didn't know it was wrong to say that I was banned, nor did I know that it was as bad as hate speech. I am not a lawyer. But even many layers would not see this. Why? Because we are only human, not machines. We make mistakes. So why practice zero tolerance for mistakes? Are they mad at me?

    I once said something that was reported as making fun of/light of child molestation. I think every other word in my reply to that warning was an expletive and some of it was just near endless strings of expletives. I didn't give a rat's TRIBBLE if they permabanned me over the reply, I was so enraged over the warning...I just didn't give two flying ****s of a monkey's uncle. Yes, I'm still pissed off about it after all this time. But I got a reply, calm and cool despite my vile reply - where just like seeing a spot on a tie that you can't not see after seeing it, I couldn't see what I had said any other way even though I knew I had zero intent to say it that way when I said it...and that was that. Nothing more could be said about it...I didn't mean it that way, I'll try to be more careful with what I say so nothing I say can come across in such a way in the future.

    No thread about it. No thinking that they were out to get me or were mad at me. **** happened and that was that. Still put me in the position of where if I sneezed at the wrong time, I was going to end up on a vacation. Hell, I know I'm still on a particular watch list there - I'm not above the rules...my trying to be helpful here and there doesn't give me carte blanche to do as I please.

    What I've posted in this thread so far is more than enough for them to say see in you a month or three Virus...and I'd have to accept that. I would accept it. This is discussing moderation and private correspondence out the wahzoo. But if it might help you or some other forum poster understand...well, I'll eat that vacation - will accept it.

    They're just enforcing the forum rules: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=128&a=151

    They don't have personal vendettas...and even if there are folks they wished would just go away, they can't do anything about it outside of enforce the rules should any sort of infraction come up that warrants it in a fair and balanced way as much as they can. Doesn't mean that something to one mod might appear worse or that Trendy or a member of the CM staff won't address it in a harsher manner...but that's something that's addressed in private with them - discussing it in the forums only breaks more rules and doesn't do much for one's case, eh?

    Which is where things kind of have gone, no?

    Initial thread...infraction.
    Apology thread...infraction.
    This thread...infraction...what else can be expected, yeah?

    And with it showing a repeating pattern of behavior...the results of the infraction are likely to be more severe.

    Best bet would probably be to self-report the thread, asking that it be closed...putting the mea culpa out in front and trying to get ahead of it.

    edit: Hell, think I'll go ahead and do that for my posts in the thread so far. Maybe I do need a wee vacation from the forums, but I'd like to avoid exile.
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    trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I once said something that was reported as making fun of/light of child molestation. I think every other word in my reply to that warning was an expletive and some of it was just near endless strings of expletives. I didn't give a rat's TRIBBLE if they permabanned me over the reply, I was so enraged over the warning...I just didn't give two flying ****s of a monkey's uncle. Yes, I'm still pissed off about it after all this time. But I got a reply, calm and cool despite my vile reply - where just like seeing a spot on a tie that you can't not see after seeing it, I couldn't see what I had said any other way even though I knew I had zero intent to say it that way when I said it...and that was that. Nothing more could be said about it...I didn't mean it that way, I'll try to be more careful with what I say so nothing I say can come across in such a way in the future.

    No thread about it. No thinking that they were out to get me or were mad at me. **** happened and that was that. Still put me in the position of where if I sneezed at the wrong time, I was going to end up on a vacation. Hell, I know I'm still on a particular watch list there - I'm not above the rules...my trying to be helpful here and there doesn't give me carte blanche to do as I please.

    What I've posted in this thread so far is more than enough for them to say see in you a month or three Virus...and I'd have to accept that. I would accept it. This is discussing moderation and private correspondence out the wahzoo. But if it might help you or some other forum poster understand...well, I'll eat that vacation - will accept it.

    They're just enforcing the forum rules: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=128&a=151

    They don't have personal vendettas...and even if there are folks they wished would just go away, they can't do anything about it outside of enforce the rules should any sort of infraction come up that warrants it in a fair and balanced way as much as they can. Doesn't mean that something to one mod might appear worse or that Trendy or a member of the CM staff won't address it in a harsher manner...but that's something that's addressed in private with them - discussing it in the forums only breaks more rules and doesn't do much for one's case, eh?

    Which is where things kind of have gone, no?

    Initial thread...infraction.
    Apology thread...infraction.
    This thread...infraction...what else can be expected, yeah?

    And with it showing a repeating pattern of behavior...the results of the infraction are likely to be more severe.

    Best bet would probably be to self-report the thread, asking that it be closed...putting the mea culpa out in front and trying to get ahead of it.

    edit: Hell, think I'll go ahead and do that for my posts in the thread so far. Maybe I do need a wee vacation from the forums, but I'd like to avoid exile.

    You might want to try decaffienated coffee as well. Just a suggestion.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
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    abaddon653abaddon653 Member Posts: 1,144 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    lystent wrote: »
    Maybe it is all my years of experience with finding what makes a good game, or maybe it is, oh I don't know, my college education perhaps

    To bad that "college education" didn't teach you proper sentence and paragraph structure. Although that should have been something you learned in grade school, I see you did not pay attention.
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited May 2015
    I once said something that was reported as making fun of/light of child molestation. I think every other word in my reply to that warning was an expletive and some of it was just near endless strings of expletives. I didn't give a rat's TRIBBLE if they permabanned me over the reply, I was so enraged over the warning...I just didn't give two flying ****s of a monkey's uncle. Yes, I'm still pissed off about it after all this time. But I got a reply, calm and cool despite my vile reply - where just like seeing a spot on a tie that you can't not see after seeing it, I couldn't see what I had said any other way even though I knew I had zero intent to say it that way when I said it...and that was that. Nothing more could be said about it...I didn't mean it that way, I'll try to be more careful with what I say so nothing I say can come across in such a way in the future.

    No thread about it. No thinking that they were out to get me or were mad at me. **** happened and that was that. Still put me in the position of where if I sneezed at the wrong time, I was going to end up on a vacation. Hell, I know I'm still on a particular watch list there - I'm not above the rules...my trying to be helpful here and there doesn't give me carte blanche to do as I please.

    What I've posted in this thread so far is more than enough for them to say see in you a month or three Virus...and I'd have to accept that. I would accept it. This is discussing moderation and private correspondence out the wahzoo. But if it might help you or some other forum poster understand...well, I'll eat that vacation - will accept it.

    They're just enforcing the forum rules: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=128&a=151

    They don't have personal vendettas...and even if there are folks they wished would just go away, they can't do anything about it outside of enforce the rules should any sort of infraction come up that warrants it in a fair and balanced way as much as they can. Doesn't mean that something to one mod might appear worse or that Trendy or a member of the CM staff won't address it in a harsher manner...but that's something that's addressed in private with them - discussing it in the forums only breaks more rules and doesn't do much for one's case, eh?

    Which is where things kind of have gone, no?

    Initial thread...infraction.
    Apology thread...infraction.
    This thread...infraction...what else can be expected, yeah?

    And with it showing a repeating pattern of behavior...the results of the infraction are likely to be more severe.

    Best bet would probably be to self-report the thread, asking that it be closed...putting the mea culpa out in front and trying to get ahead of it.

    edit: Hell, think I'll go ahead and do that for my posts in the thread so far. Maybe I do need a wee vacation from the forums, but I'd like to avoid exile.

    Probably because they are mad at me. It would be my third thread in a row, btw.
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    cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Oh for the love of... >.<;

    Folks, if it hasn't been made abundantly clear by now, this is a flame bait/drama/troll thread. The OP has no intention of listening to anything anyone has to say. You're not going to win and only feeding into their very obvious game.

    Stop responding and either the thread will die out on its own or, as is more likely, the mods will handle it when they get back on. Trust me, everyone will be happier that way.

    But....Mah Entertainment,,,,,:confused:
This discussion has been closed.