Sorry but Frakes is not exactly a titan in the world of T.V and Hollywood. He directed some Trek films based on the fact he was friends with those in charge, otherwise it would never have happend.
Just because his own pitches have not worked does not mean others wont.
As others have responded, Marvel and Star Wars is owned by Disney, who has piles and piles and more piles of cash to invest in various mediums. CBS and Paramount do not.
True.
But, the issue is that the Star Trek IP is split over multiple parties, and our fanbase's problems won't be solved until that is solved.
Disney's piles and piles of cash are certainly helping Marvel (and, soon, Lucasfilm)... indeed, the fact that Disney controls both of those IP houses helps those IPs, as they can be poured into simultaneously. Disney also controls ABC, and has a deal with Netflix... so, yes, it makes great sense as to why they're winning.
But, the Marvel example is not a clean one. Fox still owns X-Men and Fantastic Four, and they seem fully interested in making a movie universe with those IPs. It remains to be seen if they'll be successful with that, but it can be done outside of the House of Mouse.
Trek may not be able to compete with Marvel/Disney or Lucasfilm... but, who said it has to? We'll probably never see what we saw in the 90s again... But, that shouldn't negate a good TV show from being produced.
These are the voyages of The U.S.S. Shadow Serpent, its ongoing mission, to enlist more misfits to its crazy crew, and to boldly destroy what has never been destroyed before
Heres my 99% Garentteed to make 155 billion dollar Super Diverse STAR TREK Franchise:
STEP 1: Have a NEW company buy it from CBS/Viacom/Paramount, a company who can see a future in the franchise
Step 2: Hire Me to oversee the project
Step 3: REWRITE CANON, no novels, fan stuff, nuthin, just Prime-Univese, Mirror Universe, Reboot-Universe
Step 4: Launch NEW FRANCHISE with Reboot-Universe Star Trek 3 Movie in 2016, Prime-Universe Star Trek 11 Movie in 2017 (staring crew of Enterprise-G)
Step 5: Launch Reboot-Universe TV Show, staring the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise-B, Taking place 10 Years after Star Trek 3 and Prime-Universe TV Show staring the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise-G, Taking Place in 2425, 15- years after the events of Star Trek Online, Both new shows launch 2017
Step 6: Launch Star Trek: Renagades, Taking place in 2425, Star Trek: Captain Worf, Taking Place in 2380, 8 years before Romulus & Remus were Destroyed, Both Shows Launch in 2018
Step 7: Release Star Trek 4 & Star Trek 12 in 2019, Launch childrens show called Star Trek: Youth, staring a group of 5 kids on a Scholl Ship, easily introduces kids to Star Trek, Have 1 kid in group be related to Captain Kirk, Kid being the ladies man (you all admit, a show like that would be hillarious and awesome) SHow also launching in 2019
Step 8: Launch Netflix TV Series, Star Trek: Mirrors, Staring 3-5 groups attempting to take control of the Terran Empire, Game Of Thrones-like, Very much Adult Oriented, Releases 1 Season a year, Starting 2020
Step 9: Release Star Trek 5, Star Trek 13 in 2021, Keep renewing TV shows, Continue to Expand Universe in a wide array of ways
Step 10: Swim in Lake Sized Hole filled with money made from franchise
EDIT:
ALMOS FORGOT! in 2017, Launch Star Trek: Timestream Staring crew of the U.S.S. Timestream, the frist ever Tmeship, set in year 2950, Crew deals with fixing timestream can easily jump between Reboot-Universe, Prime-Universe, and Mirror Universe TV Shows & Movies
Heres my 99% Garentteed to make 155 billion dollar Super Diverse STAR TREK Franchise:
STEP 1: Have a NEW company buy it from CBS/Viacom/Paramount, a company who can see a future in the franchise
Step 2: Hire Me to oversee the project
Step 3: REWRITE CANON, no novels, fan stuff, nuthin, just Prime-Univese, Mirror Universe, Reboot-Universe
Step 4: Launch NEW FRANCHISE with Reboot-Universe Star Trek 3 Movie in 2016, Prime-Universe Star Trek 11 Movie in 2017 (staring crew of Enterprise-G)
Step 5: Launch Reboot-Universe TV Show, staring the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise-B, Taking place 10 Years after Star Trek 3 and Prime-Universe TV Show staring the crew of the U.S.S. Enterprise-G, Taking Place in 2425, 15- years after the events of Star Trek Online, Both new shows launch 2017
Step 6: Launch Star Trek: Renagades, Taking place in 2425, Star Trek: Captain Worf, Taking Place in 2380, 8 years before Romulus & Remus were Destroyed, Both Shows Launch in 2018
Step 7: Release Star Trek 4 & Star Trek 12 in 2019, Launch childrens show called Star Trek: Youth, staring a group of 5 kids on a Scholl Ship, easily introduces kids to Star Trek, Have 1 kid in group be related to Captain Kirk, Kid being the ladies man (you all admit, a show like that would be hillarious and awesome) SHow also launching in 2019
Step 8: Launch Netflix TV Series, Star Trek: Mirrors, Staring 3-5 groups attempting to take control of the Terran Empire, Game Of Thrones-like, Very much Adult Oriented, Releases 1 Season a year, Starting 2020
Step 9: Release Star Trek 5, Star Trek 13 in 2021, Keep renewing TV shows, Continue to Expand Universe in a wide array of ways
Step 10: Swim in Lake Sized Hole filled with money made from franchise
EDIT:
ALMOS FORGOT! in 2017, Launch Star Trek: Timestream Staring crew of the U.S.S. Timestream, the frist ever Tmeship, set in year 2950, Crew deals with fixing timestream can easily jump between Reboot-Universe, Prime-Universe, and Mirror Universe TV Shows & Movies
some thinks its awesome, some say horrible, but lets all agree, itss a million times better than CBS's current plan, 1 movie very 4 years
What if I said, I actually liked Delta Rising
These are the voyages of The U.S.S. Shadow Serpent, its ongoing mission, to enlist more misfits to its crazy crew, and to boldly destroy what has never been destroyed before
Marvel and DC are both busy making both movies and TV shows set in their diverse franchises, and particularly Marvel seems to be pretty successul in there. And they have that on top of their Comic lines!
Star Wars also has its animated series, is apparently also considering a live action series and is bringing out new movies.
CBS however somehow believes it's better to focus just on one medium?
Maybe they are right, and what works for Marvel or Star Wars won't work for them. But I am unconvinced.
IIRC, JJ Abrams ended up a bit disappointed with Star Trek because he couldn't do the cross-medium launch that he had hoped for, due to the Paramount / CBS rights split and all the conflicts and resistance that he had to deal with.
Seems to me as if Star Trek is overall in the hands of people that lack a grand vision for the franchise. Heck, if reports are correctly, many years ago Paramount ultimately cancelled the plans for a Las Vegas project where they would create a lifesize USS Enterprise as attraction: http://collider.com/star-trek-enterprise-vegas/
They feared that it would have negative repercussions on the franchise if it failed.
I on the other hand now imagine that any show or movie set in Las Vegas would invariably have a picture of the Enterprise. It would become a building as well known and often seen as the Eiffel Tower, if not more so. Eternal advertisement for the franchise!
You have to remember, the 90s was Star Trek's new Golden Age at the time. TNG was roaring. DS9 started slow but became great. VOY soon came out. TOS crew movies were finishing up at the beginning of the decade with the TNG movies starting out in the middle of the decade. It was going very well.
But it burned itself out.
DC & Marvel will come across that sooner or later. Not to mention the penchant of trying to tie too many things into each other.
To do Star Trek justice, it is going to require a lot of sets, costumes, makeup, special FX, location shoots etc. It's a tremendously expensive show to produce. If money is no object (as is with Disney), then money isn't an issue. Paramount and CBS don't have the funds to do it right and even if they did, I doubt they'd risk it today.
I disagree that the ONLY way to do Trek "justice" is to make it "big-budget." To a degree, I'm not even sure what that means.
Now, sci-fi shows in general are expensive, sure... but, no amount of FX would replace good storytelling.
The Brand was very diluted. Trek was everywhere in the 90s and it didn't change its format in the next decade where it failed against the new gritty BSG, the very anti-Trek Farscape, and SG-1. Given that a lot of different mediums are now producing shows where there are not full seasons (10-13 episodes), I can see a Trek series five years after the last Trek movie comes out. It will probably small in scale as well to test the waters for the audience.
Who knows what the new series will be, a new universe, a prime universe, a STO universe, or a continuation of the new movies universe.
I disagree that the ONLY way to do Trek "justice" is to make it "big-budget." To a degree, I'm not even sure what that means.
Now, sci-fi shows in general are expensive, sure... but, no amount of FX would replace good storytelling.
It's not impossible.
If that were the case, the Star Wars prequels would be the best movies ever, and all the viewers would love them.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true. Except for a T5 Connie. That would be f*%#ing awesome." - Mr. Spock
I think one of teh biggest issues is that network TV is dying which is why we have so many reality TV series because they are cheap to make. Network TV has no interest in letting a show mature any more its either instant hit or its canned or in the case of Cartoon Network if it doesn't sell toys they can teh show no matter its rating. They only way we will see a new Star Trek TV show is if Netflix or Amazon buy the rights from CBS to produce it and we know that the odds aren't good that will happen.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
I think one of teh biggest issues is that network TV is dying which is why we have so many reality TV series because they are cheap to make. Network TV has no interest in letting a show mature any more its either instant hit or its canned or in the case of Cartoon Network if it doesn't sell toys they can teh show no matter its rating. They only way we will see a new Star Trek TV show is if Netflix or Amazon buy the rights from CBS to produce it and we know that the odds aren't good that will happen.
I can name 2 examples that were canned. One of which later spawned a full length movie. Firefly
Almost Human
Firefly became a cult favorite with only... 14 episodes, yet was canned. We later got the movie Serenity to finish up the short story the franchise was forced to become. I wonder if Fox regrets canceling that show now or they just don't talk about it with anyone because it turned out to be so successful and they killed it.
Almost Human was a pretty good idea IMO. Futuristic cop show dealing with futuristic crimes and Artificial Intelligence. And... well.. Karl Urban made a pretty good grumpy cop. Show got canned after 1 season by, you guessed it. Fox.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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I can name 2 examples that were canned. One of which later spawned a full length movie. Firefly
Almost Human
Firefly became a cult favorite with only... 14 episodes, yet was canned. We later got the movie Serenity to finish up the short story the franchise was forced to become. I wonder if Fox regrets canceling that show now or they just don't talk about it with anyone because it turned out to be so successful and they killed it.
Almost Human was a pretty good idea IMO. Futuristic cop show dealing with futuristic crimes and Artificial Intelligence. And... well.. Karl Urban made a pretty good grumpy cop. Show got canned after 1 season by, you guessed it. Fox.
Yeah, Fox has a habit of killing shows that have actual quality in it and franchise shows that are terrible and awful.
See Glee, Cops, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Gotham, Sleepy Hallow and freaking American Idol.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
edited April 2015
I actually like Cops. THAT is reality. Not frickin' competitions like Americal Idol. That's a variant of a gameshow IMO.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Um, Jonathan Frakes has actually become something of an accomplished TV director. Castle, The Librarians, Falling Skies, Agents of SHIELD, NCIS:LA, Burn Notice, Leverage. He's been a busy guy. If there's one Trek alumni who actually might have a good idea on what would make a modern Trek show work, its him. So when CBS tells him they're not interested, well. These are the same folks who let Craig Ferguson walk and couldn't think of anything better than four years of a Sheen-less Two And A Half Men, after all.
nemesis was also just a terrible script. It was fan fiction, and bad fan fiction at that.
they should have left it at insurrection, and moved on to a new project.
Honestly, the script for Star Trek Insurrection wasn't much better.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Honestly, the script for Star Trek Insurrection wasn't much better.
Insurrection wasn't bad, it just felt like a really long episode rather than an actual movie. And Nemesis makes Insurrection look like TWoK imho.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
edited April 2015
Insurrection was actually pretty good. Moral dilema, humor, action... it was a good movie. Nemesis just came off as everyone was tired. Also might have exagurated Troi's empathic abilities a bit with her zeroing in on the Reman Viceroy like that to fire a torpedo. Also it had already been established that Picard did have hair in his academy days.
Then again... Troi said she never kissed Riker with a beard before in Insurrection, yet there actually was an episode of TNG where she did.
What I will give Nemesis though is the interaction with the Romulans, as well as the Mogai class and the Romulan uniforms. But I did notice a bit of a pattern. The last movie of a Generation involves a ship that can fire while cloaked.
Star Trek VI: Had Chang's BoP that could fire Torpedoes while cloaked.
Star Trek Nemesis: Had the Scimitar that could fire all weapons while cloaked, AND have shields up.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Um, Jonathan Frakes has actually become something of an accomplished TV director.
"Director" =/= "creator". George Lucas is a brilliant creator, but I think he's amply demonstrated that he's a pretty lousy director. Conversely, Nicholas Meyer is a gifted director - but have you read his novel, The Seven Percent Solution? Let's just say it was only published because he was already famous.
Insurrection was actually pretty good. Moral dilema, humor, action... it was a good movie. Nemesis just came off as everyone was tired. Also might have exagurated Troi's empathic abilities a bit with her zeroing in on the Reman Viceroy like that to fire a torpedo. Also it had already been established that Picard did have hair in his academy days.
Then again... Troi said she never kissed Riker with a beard before in Insurrection, yet there actually was an episode of TNG where she did.
What I will give Nemesis though is the interaction with the Romulans, as well as the Mogai class and the Romulan uniforms. But I did notice a bit of a pattern. The last movie of a Generation involves a ship that can fire while cloaked.
Star Trek VI: Had Chang's BoP that could fire Torpedoes while cloaked.
Star Trek Nemesis: Had the Scimitar that could fire all weapons while cloaked, AND have shields up.
So that is what we will see in Trek XII, a ship firing while cloaked. Way to ruin that movie, Abrams.
Insurrection and Nemesis are very good examples of why Trek failed. Insurrection's premise was good, but it had way too much input from the guys on top. Nemesis was TRIBBLE to pieces by the Director who was coincidentally known as a great editor. Both movies' stories were rushed and felt incomplete.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
edited April 2015
Um... Abrams isn't directing the new one. He's too busy with Star Wars these days.
To me Insurrection didn't feel rushed or incomplete. It was a bit more lighthearted than First Contact for sure. Then again I liked Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5 because they had what I call the magic forumula. Humor that fits in and breaks the tension and drama. Insurrection had humor, along with a real, honest, moral dilema that fit in perfectly with Trek: Follow orders blindly or take a stand against a potentially illegal order after learning the facts. And Picard made a point about where it would stop if the situation was allowed to proceed. It wouldn't.
Nemesis did feel rushed and incomplete, and felt a bit like a rehash of ST6 in some ways. Diplomatic overtures to another government (Klingons in ST6/Romulans in Nemesis), prototype doomsday weapon capable of cloaked combat(Chang's BoP to an extent/Scimitar)...
Nemesis just had the convoluted long range plot by the Romulans to replace Picard, which was dropped, and Shinzon wanting to just commit genocide with a doomsday weapon that was somehow built under the noses of the Romulans, who are supposed to be VERY GOOD at being sneaky and gathering intel.
I mean... how do you hide a ship the size of the Scimitar virturally right next door to Romulus that is being built by a species that is supposed to be 2nd class citizens of the Star Empire at the time? The Tal Shiar would have noticed the influx of building materials a mile away for something that big!
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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The director was IMO the reason Nemesis sucked. Scripts can be rewritten, but if your director is an idiot or lacks creative vision and does things like forget major cast member's names then your movie is going to suck. A good director can save a bad script, but the reverse rarely happens, and Nemesis' script was already bad.
Believe you have it right there. Mr. Baird is a good editor. His editing credits include Skyfall; Casino Royal; Die Hard 2, Lethal Weapon; Outland; and Superman. Full list here.
Um... Abrams isn't directing the new one. He's too busy with Star Wars these days.
To me Insurrection didn't feel rushed or incomplete. It was a bit more lighthearted than First Contact for sure. Then again I liked Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5 because they had what I call the magic forumula. Humor that fits in and breaks the tension and drama. Insurrection had humor, along with a real, honest, moral dilema that fit in perfectly with Trek: Follow orders blindly or take a stand against a potentially illegal order after learning the facts. And Picard made a point about where it would stop if the situation was allowed to proceed. It wouldn't.
Nemesis did feel rushed and incomplete, and felt a bit like a rehash of ST6 in some ways. Diplomatic overtures to another government (Klingons in ST6/Romulans in Nemesis), prototype doomsday weapon capable of cloaked combat(Chang's BoP to an extent/Scimitar)...
Nemesis just had the convoluted long range plot by the Romulans to replace Picard, which was dropped, and Shinzon wanting to just commit genocide with a doomsday weapon that was somehow built under the noses of the Romulans, who are supposed to be VERY GOOD at being sneaky and gathering intel.
I mean... how do you hide a ship the size of the Scimitar virturally right next door to Romulus that is being built by a species that is supposed to be 2nd class citizens of the Star Empire at the time? The Tal Shiar would have noticed the influx of building materials a mile away for something that big!
The Abrams part was meant as Sarcasm.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
edited April 2015
These days, with all the hate on the reboot movies, its kinda hard to tell.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Classic example of a studio adding 2+2 and getting five. Nemesis didn't fail because of dilution, it failed because it was a terrible movie. Replace Shinzon with Sela and the movie is 100 times better and makes a lot more money.
Enterprise is similar, replace B&B from the beginning and ratings don't nose dive.
totally agree...nemesis was a terrible movie. The buggy drive on the dessert planet served zero purpose for the story, yet it is like 10 minutes of actors having fun with very expensive toys.
Sela instead of shinzon would have been great, but consider that people who never saw sela or tasha yar in TNG wouldn't know anything about her. Could have made a cool intro if the script was written right...which brings me to the next point: Don't let the cast of a movie write and direct!
they never build on existing lore it seems when it comes to movies or new TV series.
I still son't understand why Enterprise had to introduce Xindi, when there are novels out about the romulan war which are like 5 times more interesting to read, since they talk about a race we actually new before, but the characters of the show did not. Second and third season should have been about Earth - Romulan war and the show would have been a success.
I mean they set a new show in the past, but they do not bother to dive into the established lore...No, they even changed it to upset the fanbase.
That is also what I now so like about STO's story, since they incorporate predominantly existing story elements and build upon them.
Comments
Sorry but Frakes is not exactly a titan in the world of T.V and Hollywood. He directed some Trek films based on the fact he was friends with those in charge, otherwise it would never have happend.
Just because his own pitches have not worked does not mean others wont.
True.
But, the issue is that the Star Trek IP is split over multiple parties, and our fanbase's problems won't be solved until that is solved.
Disney's piles and piles of cash are certainly helping Marvel (and, soon, Lucasfilm)... indeed, the fact that Disney controls both of those IP houses helps those IPs, as they can be poured into simultaneously. Disney also controls ABC, and has a deal with Netflix... so, yes, it makes great sense as to why they're winning.
But, the Marvel example is not a clean one. Fox still owns X-Men and Fantastic Four, and they seem fully interested in making a movie universe with those IPs. It remains to be seen if they'll be successful with that, but it can be done outside of the House of Mouse.
Trek may not be able to compete with Marvel/Disney or Lucasfilm... but, who said it has to? We'll probably never see what we saw in the 90s again... But, that shouldn't negate a good TV show from being produced.
like what issue
Reminds me of the time I came up with the Jump To Conclusions Mat... :P
some thinks its awesome, some say horrible, but lets all agree, itss a million times better than CBS's current plan, 1 movie very 4 years
You have to remember, the 90s was Star Trek's new Golden Age at the time. TNG was roaring. DS9 started slow but became great. VOY soon came out. TOS crew movies were finishing up at the beginning of the decade with the TNG movies starting out in the middle of the decade. It was going very well.
But it burned itself out.
DC & Marvel will come across that sooner or later. Not to mention the penchant of trying to tie too many things into each other.
You just handed it to inept fckwads, that was the problem.
Seriously: voyager.. enterprise before midway xindy....
CBS, honestly, just go effyourself.
I disagree that the ONLY way to do Trek "justice" is to make it "big-budget." To a degree, I'm not even sure what that means.
Now, sci-fi shows in general are expensive, sure... but, no amount of FX would replace good storytelling.
It's not impossible.
Who knows what the new series will be, a new universe, a prime universe, a STO universe, or a continuation of the new movies universe.
If that were the case, the Star Wars prequels would be the best movies ever, and all the viewers would love them.
I see what you did there. :rolleyes:
I can name 2 examples that were canned. One of which later spawned a full length movie.
Firefly
Almost Human
Firefly became a cult favorite with only... 14 episodes, yet was canned. We later got the movie Serenity to finish up the short story the franchise was forced to become. I wonder if Fox regrets canceling that show now or they just don't talk about it with anyone because it turned out to be so successful and they killed it.
Almost Human was a pretty good idea IMO. Futuristic cop show dealing with futuristic crimes and Artificial Intelligence. And... well.. Karl Urban made a pretty good grumpy cop. Show got canned after 1 season by, you guessed it. Fox.
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Yeah, Fox has a habit of killing shows that have actual quality in it and franchise shows that are terrible and awful.
See Glee, Cops, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Gotham, Sleepy Hallow and freaking American Idol.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
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colored text = mod mode
Um, Jonathan Frakes has actually become something of an accomplished TV director. Castle, The Librarians, Falling Skies, Agents of SHIELD, NCIS:LA, Burn Notice, Leverage. He's been a busy guy. If there's one Trek alumni who actually might have a good idea on what would make a modern Trek show work, its him. So when CBS tells him they're not interested, well. These are the same folks who let Craig Ferguson walk and couldn't think of anything better than four years of a Sheen-less Two And A Half Men, after all.
Honestly, the script for Star Trek Insurrection wasn't much better.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Insurrection wasn't bad, it just felt like a really long episode rather than an actual movie. And Nemesis makes Insurrection look like TWoK imho.
Then again... Troi said she never kissed Riker with a beard before in Insurrection, yet there actually was an episode of TNG where she did.
What I will give Nemesis though is the interaction with the Romulans, as well as the Mogai class and the Romulan uniforms. But I did notice a bit of a pattern. The last movie of a Generation involves a ship that can fire while cloaked.
Star Trek VI: Had Chang's BoP that could fire Torpedoes while cloaked.
Star Trek Nemesis: Had the Scimitar that could fire all weapons while cloaked, AND have shields up.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
So that is what we will see in Trek XII, a ship firing while cloaked. Way to ruin that movie, Abrams.
Insurrection and Nemesis are very good examples of why Trek failed. Insurrection's premise was good, but it had way too much input from the guys on top. Nemesis was TRIBBLE to pieces by the Director who was coincidentally known as a great editor. Both movies' stories were rushed and felt incomplete.
To me Insurrection didn't feel rushed or incomplete. It was a bit more lighthearted than First Contact for sure. Then again I liked Stargate SG-1 and Babylon 5 because they had what I call the magic forumula. Humor that fits in and breaks the tension and drama. Insurrection had humor, along with a real, honest, moral dilema that fit in perfectly with Trek: Follow orders blindly or take a stand against a potentially illegal order after learning the facts. And Picard made a point about where it would stop if the situation was allowed to proceed. It wouldn't.
Nemesis did feel rushed and incomplete, and felt a bit like a rehash of ST6 in some ways. Diplomatic overtures to another government (Klingons in ST6/Romulans in Nemesis), prototype doomsday weapon capable of cloaked combat(Chang's BoP to an extent/Scimitar)...
Nemesis just had the convoluted long range plot by the Romulans to replace Picard, which was dropped, and Shinzon wanting to just commit genocide with a doomsday weapon that was somehow built under the noses of the Romulans, who are supposed to be VERY GOOD at being sneaky and gathering intel.
I mean... how do you hide a ship the size of the Scimitar virturally right next door to Romulus that is being built by a species that is supposed to be 2nd class citizens of the Star Empire at the time? The Tal Shiar would have noticed the influx of building materials a mile away for something that big!
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Believe you have it right there. Mr. Baird is a good editor. His editing credits include Skyfall; Casino Royal; Die Hard 2, Lethal Weapon; Outland; and Superman. Full list here.
He has directed 3 films. Nemesis was his last.
Nuff said.
The Abrams part was meant as Sarcasm.
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It was good enough to be an ending and didnt leave me feeling like there was more story.
Generations left you wanting to know what happened to the crew
First contact felt like a decent inbetweener.
And insurrection felt like a fairwell.
Nemesis felt like a hey lets see if this horse is really dead.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
totally agree...nemesis was a terrible movie. The buggy drive on the dessert planet served zero purpose for the story, yet it is like 10 minutes of actors having fun with very expensive toys.
Sela instead of shinzon would have been great, but consider that people who never saw sela or tasha yar in TNG wouldn't know anything about her. Could have made a cool intro if the script was written right...which brings me to the next point: Don't let the cast of a movie write and direct!
they never build on existing lore it seems when it comes to movies or new TV series.
I still son't understand why Enterprise had to introduce Xindi, when there are novels out about the romulan war which are like 5 times more interesting to read, since they talk about a race we actually new before, but the characters of the show did not. Second and third season should have been about Earth - Romulan war and the show would have been a success.
I mean they set a new show in the past, but they do not bother to dive into the established lore...No, they even changed it to upset the fanbase.
That is also what I now so like about STO's story, since they incorporate predominantly existing story elements and build upon them.