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Command Attract Fire buggered?
voivodje
Member Posts: 436 Arc User
I am helping me wife in her missions, she made a Tactical torp striker, I have a cruiser as Engi.
Now, her defensive skills are not that, and we're working on setting up her BOffs.
Now, since she's quite squishy, I use my Attract Fire a lot.
Oddly, that has NO effect what'soever.
My Starship Threat Control is maxed, hers is empty, and still the enemy prefers her over me.
My question: is Command Attract Fire buggered?
If not, what am I doing wrong?
Thank you.
Now, her defensive skills are not that, and we're working on setting up her BOffs.
Now, since she's quite squishy, I use my Attract Fire a lot.
Oddly, that has NO effect what'soever.
My Starship Threat Control is maxed, hers is empty, and still the enemy prefers her over me.
My question: is Command Attract Fire buggered?
If not, what am I doing wrong?
Thank you.
Post edited by voivodje on
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Try using Fire At Will just to tick off everything in the vicinity first. Make sure you always are physically closest and make the first attack with her coming in right behind. Things like that. Given them all a reason to view you as The One To Target, so Attract Fire can amplify that.
Thanks for the insight. Any chance you could give us some more info here?
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Its not bugged its the way the game is designed that is flawed to a degree
That's not the case. I have logs of me pulling aggro from people doing up to and more than 4x my damage. I'd like some actual information, thank you very much.
I'd offer to fly with you to prove it, but I somehow doubt you even do the damage of my tanks.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
That seems like an odd design choice given the range effects of weapons and the relative durability of ships.
It would be one thing if you made evasion tanking the primary form of tanking in game. (What I call Scooby Doo tanking, where tanking durability is based on using the frailest team members to distract the enemy based on their ability not to get hit at all.) But I think the Risian escort is the only ship that lives up to that promise.
I think threat is probably one of the "under the hood" systems that bears the most re-examination.
At what point will a less maneuverable player who deals less damage generate more threat than a higher maneuverability, higher damage player and, if they can do so, how are they intended to cope with the damage they will incur?
I have build my character (the one I spoke of here) as a tank, which he does quite well.
However, I cannot hold aggro, no matter what I do.
I figured that Command Attract Fire was basically a taunt as in other games, but THAT is not the case.
And well DUUUUH, I do hardly damage compared to other classes, as a tank I sacrificed damage for survivability.
Sadly, it seems only my survivability, not that of others.
I could revamp into a Heal boat, but that is not my gaming style...
Maybe I'll write the Devs, asking them to turn CAT into an actual CAT that drives all enemies insane and go for me.
Like a taunt in other games.
Actually you can make a tank do pretty good damage despite not putting DPS as priority #1. Really with the way this game caps shield resistances pretty easily, and hull resistances also hit the point of too-expensive-to-go-further fairly low, you can have a high defense and the heals to keep yourself going and still have plenty of room for offensive stuff. Stack a couple of +threat consoles to amplify it, and you can pull threat in most groups. You just gotta know where to strike the balance and how to fly it to play to your strengths is all.
But yeah the Threat stuff in this game doesn't work nearly as cleanly as it does in others. A clunky and unintuitive interface that requires going through multiple sites to figure out: STO's SOP. *shrugs*
Any reason for the personal attack ?
You also have contradicted yourself there as well by saying I can't take aggro off you because you doubt I can generate enough dps to do so.
So back to my point aggro is generated by the amount of threat aka dps you generate not which aggro consoles you equip or cruiser command you use or skill points you invest in the threat control tree.
I couldn't careless if I do or don't do the damage you do. I'm happy for my toons to range between 15k-37k dps. More than sufficient to run advanced and elite pve queues.
I'll leave the dps race to others as long as I contribute I'm good.
Then maybe this should be changed? The idea here is that Tac Escorts have to get close to maximize their DPS Output....The very idea of Threat Control and Attract Fire is to pull that aggro off them correct? So why is it the Tac Officer has to turn tail for those Tanky abilities to kick in?
In any other MMO Attract Fire would instantly reset the aggro and indicate to the Mob to attack the Tank. Yet thats not whats happening. Youre essentially telling people theyre wasting their time playing the part of the Tank.
Tank = Take/Hold Aggro + Survive Aggro
Survivability does not make you a Tank.
Survivability without the ability to take and hold aggro (ie. via insufficient offense to present a threat to your targets) makes you an Invulnerable Brick.
EVERYBODY should be getting close to maximize their DPS Output.
Why would you deliberately minimize your DPS Output by staying at a distance? There is never a time when that is better than the former.
Gate in ISA. If you stay just inside max range the gate can't hit you. Pretty sure it applies in other borg STFs as well.
Let the stupid suffer
Nope, that's not a good reason at all.
If you need to gimp your damage by at least a third to avoid a Gate, it means your build or team is flawed.
Or it means Netflix has run out of episodes of the show you're watching
Let the stupid suffer
The fact that I have high dps (higher than that which you name on your ships) doesn't change the fact that I can pull threat from people with significantly more dps than I have. There's no contradiction there, just someone with reading comprehension and gameplay knowledge and someone with noticably less.
Amen.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Indeed, survivability is nothing, ESPECIALLY if it has no use!!!
How can I become an aggro-beast?
Do I really have to explain to you that someone running beams and someone running cannons need to be at differing distances to do the most damage? A 2km difference?
6 points in threat control, attract fire, park on the mobs (literally, crash into them), make sure your wife is within 5km of you to benefit from the 50% threat reduction, and make sure you have decent damage. Whatever you need to do to get good damage without sacrificing too much defense do it.
Let the stupid suffer
Hrmm, believe this was last updated in 2012...which is more recent than the other commonly quoted source...would be nifty to hear from Cryptic if it still holds true all the same:
Range / Beams / Cannons
0km / 100% / 100%
1km / 100% / 100%
2km / 96% / 95%
3km / 92% / 87.5%
4km / 88% / 80%
5km / 84% / 72.5%
6km / 80% / 65%
7km / 76% / 57.5%
8km / 72% /50%
9km / 68% / 42.5%
<10km / 64% /40%
But uh, yeah...both want to be at 1km or less for maximum damage.
edit: Doh, forgot to link the spreadsheet maelwys did: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Asu87Jb5VCBgdFFQLVQtdENLUVE0dlBOZnZPQ09DUHc#gid=0
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, since the "most damage" is practically point blank for all weapons. As already pointed out by virusdancer.
Or it means you're using tactics to take advantage of a blind spot in the Gate's defenses, thus allowing you to actually LIVE long enough to do damage in the first place.
"Gimped" Damage is better than no damage while dead you know. And you can't Alpha Strike a Gate to Oblivion like you can some ships.
Tactics are an important part. Banzai Charging guns blazing isn't always going to work. The Gate Blind Spot is an example of strategy. Technically yes, it would be better for a beam ship to park there, angle themselves up or down to get all their beam arrays going, and just unload, but a cannon ship can be just as effective in that spot too. And since Escorts tend to be squishier than cruisers, living longer to do consistant damage rather than kamikaze spike damage with increasing respawn timers is a viable tactic.
Lol, I had to chuckle...sounds like you're suggesting people exploit a bug.
The point was to say that tactics can be more than just "Kamikaze Spike DPS".
Well considering that waaaaay back in the day when bort was a podcaster and did an episode where he mentioned staying at max range to avoid getting killed by the gate I don't think it's a bug. Pretty sure it's working as intended.
Let the stupid suffer
If you need to gimp your damage by at least a third to avoid a Gate, it means your build or team is flawed.
The fact that you need to do this to "LIVE long enough" means your build or your team is flawed.
I've been in PUG ISAs where I end up taking almost 50% of the incoming damage, held aggro on the Gate throughout the duration of Phase 4, and never needed to voluntarily gimp my damage to survive.
(Not voluntarily tanking, it's just unavoidable when you do double the damage of everyone else, and fly a lot more aggressively.)
What I'm actually talking about here is mainly survivability, not DPS. If you have to gimp your DPS to survive, then either your team sucks rocks and you're forced to tank the Gate entirely (which I'm not even saying you should be able to do) or you can't survive your portion of the Gate's attacks and need to work more survivability into your build.
You're basically trying to justify some arcane ritual necessary to start your car, when I'm telling you that if you need to go through a ritual to start your car, you need to fix your bloody car.
I guess I still have trouble understanding how somebody could die in an ISA outside of being caught in a temporal rubberband where they can't do anything.
Sure, the guy in the T5 non-U/non-Fleet B'rel might not want to decloak in the midst of a bunch of Spheres for some FAW action...but the Gateway's no threat even to that flimsy of a boat.
Or the off chance they get their shields ripped at the wrong time.
Hah, nice edit. A few seconds later and I would have called you a hypocrite, eh?
Especially considering it wouldn't have even made sense, given that I'm advocating the ability to survive.
I don't squeeze out every last point of DPS possible. I have my own playstyle. Generally trying to mix survivability with mobility as well as damage. So relatively balanced. My Phantom tends to be a bit more on the damage side (Phased Biomatter in the process of upgrading), but still with a healthy dose of survival.
I just don't like people declaring "Your build is flawed if you can't do X" and not offer suggestions. I've seen too many people rant and rave about people not being able to do something and not providing anything constructive in return. To me that feels like an insult to less experienced players and I kinda feel the need to stand up for them as an experienced player.