Posting these types of threads into the echo chamber that is this isolated PvP community is likely to do nothing but stir up additional ire among the small number of players that come here. They just go around in predictable little circles:
Player1: "Look at this Thing."
Player2: "That Thing is OP."
Player3: "Who cares? PvP is dead."
Player4-100+: "You are right, it's obvious because that Thing is OP."
These threads don't serve this portion of the community. All they do is reinforce negativity, and paint this sub-community in a negative light overall.
It will help all of us - Devs, and you PvPers - if you report the issues you see in a place they're more likely to be reviewed and acted upon, and try to avoid dwelling on the same circular arguments, over and over again.
Let's talk about Tribble feedback shall we. Delta Rising alone, here are a list of things that made it into the game in current form regardless of feedback about them (and 80% were later nerfed).
-Isokinetic Cannon
-Surgical Strikes 1-3
-Neutronic Torpedo modified by TS3
-Bug Hunt Queue not working properly
-Kobali Ground error allowing 55k Dil/hr while standing idle.
These are things I myself personally reported in feedback and bug reports. Of ALL of these reports, the only thing any dev (commander rand) ever took time to fix was the 55k/hr dil while standing idle glitch on Kobali Ground. SS and Neutronic was eventually "Fixed" on holodeck, as well as the issue with bug hunt (the invisible wall being put into play to prevent pre-timer ending failures).
So basically, you're saying to us that our information is in the wrong subforum for you to ignore, and to please redirect it to the proper subforum, so you can ignore it?
Also players 4-100 couldn't be in agreement, they are not 100 pvpers left in this game. Understand that throughout the history of this game, any time you, the lead systems dev, is presented with actual math as to why a power is broken or over tuned, you get defensive and tell us we are wrong. Bort, you need to wake up. Rather than reinforcing this negativity you are speaking of by creating and releasing more broken product, how about you sit down with the more intellectual members of the pvp community who have, for years, offered to help you, for free. Remember Atayani from TSI? The person who lived 15 minutes from your office and offered to come into Cryptic Studios to personally show you the Attack Pattern Delta stacking glitch you wouldn't even acknowledge as existing for over 6 months? Yeah, you said no to them too.
Don't come into someones house and throw stones bort. Even if we're renting the house from you.
Borticus you said it all:
"isolated community" "small number of players".
Just remember that more and more of your players can be described that way:
-klingons: isolated community, small number of players
-DPS crowd - same
-people that still try to keep fleets together - same
I'm sorry, but yes, this game is dead. You can only milk Star Trek franchise that much before even the most hardcore fan gives up, which is now happening.
STO is not a game anymore. It's space themed farming "gamish" app.
And the fault is only yours. you have constantly removed challenges from game and pushed overpowered stuff to boost sales or time spent.
You alone have left your game without any worthwhile or challenging gaming content.
And you turned against PvPers who constantly reported broken stuff, bugs etc. in favor of power creep and bug abusers that is DPS community simply to push your shortsited and shorterm strategy of selling next OP DPS thing.
Congratulations and Bravo. You managed to remove GAME element from GAME and replaced it with something more suited for some mobile app.
And you cumulatively managed to remove Star Trek from Star Trek Online.
What is left is only Online.
When servers don't fail, that is.
By the way, anybody notice he said this, and then later said that the reason he doesn't PvP (quote in my last post) is for the reason (quote he just made fun of, directly above)?
I dunno, just seems a bit... hypocritical?
For someone that doesn't understand that being insulting =/= toxic personality, that does seem hypocritical.
But I guess for someone interested in making personal attacks instead of trying to debate the points I've tried to make, you'll grasp at whatever straws you can to try to deflect any sort of criticism.
So, by all means, keep it up. You sure are managing to stick it to me.
ignore iconians FFS, he will only go away when you stop giving him the attention he lusts for
As long as people continue to think my observations and points I try to make are just for attention instead of trying to emphasise destructive behavior that maybe should be altered, nobody is going to take what PvPers have to say seriously.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people on the STO forums are capable of dishing it out, but fall apart like glass when the notion of being able to take it is brought up.
You're doing something called Galileo gambit. Or something very close to it, considering you're playing the victim in the right, although no one has victimized you. Fallacy.
So, you're saying people are not responding to me with personal attacks?
Because that is what I am seeing now, and it's really not that unusual.
People demonstrate toxic behavior. I point out they are demonstrating toxic behavior. Then they respond by saying that I am the real problem because I am the one pointing out their toxic behavior.
The only reason the Galileo fallacy works, is because it is guilt by association. The only reason I say "People", "Individuals", "Posters", or whatever is because of the forum TOS, where I am not allowed to name and shame people.
It is not because I am unable to point out specific people and what they are doing. It is because the thread then turns into a flame war over personal attacks instead of productive discussion if I did. In the rare instances productive discussion is gleaned from a thread, that is.
And no, the irony that people seem like to go after me personally instead of the points I make is not lost on me. But it doesn't really matter.
Holding people accountable for the things they say ends up derailing threads, because people need their internet honor to remain untarnished or something.
I can say from personal, anecdotal experience that the personalities I've come across in the PvP facet of this game simply reminded me that I don't need STO's PvP experience when other games can (and have) done it better, and their PvP communities consist of (typically) mature, sportsmanlike personalities that encourage participation from newer players instead of trying to exclude them to prevent people from wanting to compete against them (and thus possibly threaten their superiority).
From my personal experience, people who bemoan social "exclusion" by the PvP community usually show a common set of bad traits and habits, like difficulties to stomach defeat, lack of sportsmanship and disregard for established netiquette.
To suggest that old players don't want new players to join, because they might pose a 'threat' in the future, is ridiculous. Take off your tin foil hat please.
as of right now, nope. Only illcadia has. Not that I agree with how borticus talked in his post, but it is kind of echoey here.
I'm not happy with the state PvP is in currently either. Yes there was no feedback taken into account for DR but look at command and pilot powers. They're really balanced and they're taking feedback. They even have player testers and a focus group for the pilot powers. That's more than they had for any other season. The very least we can do is promote the improved communication from the devs instead of bringing up things that happened a while ago (some even years ago from people that don't even work for cryptic anymore).
And no, the irony that people seem like to go after me personally instead of the points I make is not lost on me. But it doesn't really matter.
What was your point ?
Seriously I don't remember reading one. The only thing I remember in any of your posts was your assertion that the PvP community in STO is filled with hate and is in general toxic.
No one is denying that the forums have been made toxic due to the mishandling of the community by the developer. In game however that is a different story. I have experienced nothing more toxic in STO PvP then I have in STO DPS PvE, or STO Pug Que PvE. I can't speak to the RP community however judging by the number of Anti Disco ball... anti Erper posts in the general section, I think its fair to say toxic people inhabit all corners of the game.
So yes I will call your troll now... nice try. We aren't going to fight with you iconians. If you don't want to PvP don't. We aren't going to force you. And yes I stand by what I have already posted... in my experience if anyone is running into more toxic situations in STO then they would consider normal (because jerks pop up everywhere now and then that's life) well its likely that your attracting it somehow.
Has anyone seen a bomb threat against Cryptic in any other part of the forums besides the PvP gameplay sub-forums?
just like how all muslims are suicide bombing terrorists, genius? next time you feel the urge to ask the stupidest question you are capable of formulating, keep it to your self.
just like how all muslims are suicide bombing terrorists, genius? next time you feel the urge to ask the stupidest question you are capable of formulating, keep it to your self.
Wow! You're right, your insane hyperbole has shown me the error of my ways.
But I guess for someone interested in making personal attacks instead of trying to debate the points I've tried to make, you'll grasp at whatever straws you can to try to deflect any sort of criticism.
I feel like this guy didn't read my first post and just got ticked over the 2nd one.
As of yet, my arguments have not been answered, so I can assume they are true.
I'm am very sorry if I insulted you, if you read my post you will notice it was not being directed towards you, so you did not have to answer.
Again, very sorry your feeling are hurt, not my intention. My main post was the first one, in which case has not been disputed.
Thank you for your time!
Please don't do it cryptic I will pay more money for you not to.
Let's try to stay on the topic at hand, rather than discussing if somebody is a troll or not.
We need cryptic to not integrate these reputation traits into the game.
Its already done. Cryptic doesn't listen to feedback. After 5 years everyone knows that.
The only times they have ever listened is when someone said... hey X or Y is giving us more D then it should be.
Everything else that seems really broken. What people need to realize... its not broken. Its on purpose. The bugs and OP stuff that effect game play are all on purpose to sell something. It will all get "Fixed" down the line when things have sold out.
If you enjoy playing trek barbie stick around and play whats here... if you want to engage a developer and have a good time PvPing your going to have to have another mmo installed.
Its already done. Cryptic doesn't listen to feedback. After 5 years everyone knows that.
The only times they have ever listened is when someone said... hey X or Y is giving us more D then it should be.
Everything else that seems really broken. What people need to realize... its not broken. Its on purpose. The bugs and OP stuff that effect game play are all on purpose to sell something. It will all get "Fixed" down the line when things have sold out.
If you enjoy playing trek barbie stick around and play whats here... if you want to engage a developer and have a good time PvPing your going to have to have another mmo installed.
As depressing as it is, he's absolutely right. Cryptic has made it a cycle: they come out with unbalanced new stuff and a few months down the road they start to consider balancing issues.
Then they come out with new stuff and the cycle starts again.
Wish they didn't add things for random reasons. As of yet, the only reason why they are adding this is because they have no imagination and need a trait people would want. They never asked the community.
I don't want to sound stupid, but would the game be better if it was owned by Blizzard or something?
I feel like this guy didn't read my first post and just got ticked over the 2nd one.
As of yet, my arguments have not been answered, so I can assume they are true.
I'm am very sorry if I insulted you, if you read my post you will notice it was not being directed towards you, so you did not have to answer.
Again, very sorry your feeling are hurt, not my intention. My main post was the first one, in which case has not been disputed.
Thank you for your time!
Please don't do it cryptic I will pay more money for you not to.
Alright, I'll bite. I hope you like walls of text.
Toxicity is not defined by personal insults. I've been on the internet long enough that personal insults really do not bother me. Just because they don't bother me doesn't mean I'm not capable of recognizing that I'm being insulted.
I just don't feel like it's a productive usage of my time on the STO forums to get involved in little snipe wars most of the time. If somebody is going to go after me instead of the points I make, I usually don't even bother responding.
Toxicity on the other hand, is more of a personality observation. Toxicity is a broad definition that is really more of a set tone than whatever the topic matter is. Toxicity is where somebody is so miserable that they just want to make the experience miserable for others. Dragging others down to their level. It's about destruction, not construction.
I have no issues with trash talk, particularly in regards to PvP. Competition encourages it.
I do have an issue with toxicity. I've had plenty of lurkers in the STO forums talk to me over the past few years on how they simply refuse to participate in the STO forums as a result of the toxicity. You'll see it mentioned elsewhere on third-party forums the toxic atmosphere the STO forums seem to not only cultivate, but breed.
Where toxic personalities consistently feed off of each other, this is where Borticus comes in. Because it really is just a cycle. Nothing new is gained. No new thoughts are shared. It is the same echo chamber that has been mentioned already.
That is the difference between toxicity and insults. I mention that I agree with Borticus, and instead of people in this thread reflecting on the kind of behavior that goes on in the STO forums (particularly the PvP forums), it just becomes another echo chamber cacophany.
That is why I comment. Because it is honestly comical that people actually believe some of this stuff they say. They're so saturated in this toxic atmosphere of disdain that they can't recognize that what they are saying on the PvP forums is getting them the exact opposite results they allegedly desire.
Instead of considering the possibility Borticus is right (and to be fair, he's not always right), we see evidence of personal attacks on him regarding "professionalism". Instead of considering that maybe there is an error in the line of communication from the players' side of things, we see evidence that Cryptic has "forced their hand", and that they are so disillusioned with STO and Cryptic that they don't even know why the STO forums exist anymore.
This is what toxicity is. It's the absolute disregard for feedback to create a better game, a better atmosphere. It becomes a football match. It becomes "us" vs. "them". It just becomes a polarized, bitter atmosphere of cynicism where the end goal of the posters is to see who can be "right".
But STO's community doesn't have to be about who is right and who is wrong. It can be about fostering lines of communication. It can be about introducing positive change instead of holding grudges against Cryptic for their past mistakes. It can be about acknowledging mistakes made and simply looking forward and hoping for the best -- and then calling Cryptic out on where they fail and where they succeed after the fact.
It can be all of these things. But enough people on the STO forums have decided they don't want it to be any of this. I can't say I blame them, because I do understand some of this resentment.
But when I see threads where I'm accused of being a Cryptic dev's alt. When I see people who play and create video games compared to murderers and terrorists. When I see forumball mentalities... I can't help but laugh.
You have Cryptic's ear. And instead of using time and effort to get a better game, I just see Khan saying, "For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
People wonder why Cryptic doesn't take forum feedback into consideration. You can't build a better game when a large enough portion of the STO forums simply want blood. You can't create lines of communication based on hatred.
People consistently and habitually blow their chance to get Cryptic to listen to them, all for the sake of being "right".
That is toxicity. And the PvP experience (at least for me) is much the same. Toxic personalities that feed off of each other. It goes beyond trash talk in Ker'rat. It becomes an atmosphere of hatred and loathing over a very obvious minimally-viable product that they play anyway.
And that is why I just play other video games with better PvP experiences and better communities where you can be competitive without being toxic.
Yeah, you're wrong. You can read from the oldest pvp thread if you care enough to know why you're wrong. And also, you have 16 posts in the pvp subforum. Your argument is invalid.
Another fine example of how being right is more important than getting results.
Another fine example of how being right is more important than getting results.
I would recommend reading through the past years of posts, even as far back as the Archived area before continuing down your path. You're essentially walking into a leper colony and blaming everyone for being sick.
Borticus, years ago, had a much higher rate of communication with the pvp community. Par for the course for the last 12-18 months for a dev coming into the pvp forum, its usually to throw mud or tell us how horrible we are. Or in CaptainSmirks case, go out of his way to make a post JUST FOR THE TROLL VALUE. Hawks last post before leaving Cryptic was literally a 2 paragraph tip toe around calling us idiots. Borticus's tone has change from (2-3 years ago) All powers must have an equal or near equal hard or soft counter available to all builds and if you can show us math proving your point we will work on it (SNB doffs, SDO Doffs, CSV god mode from ages ago, time set + tricos, voldemort, etc) to what he is now which is basically "I'll deal with it when we release the new shineys for you to buy and deny any form of possibility something is wrong with something we are currently selling until that point."
Just remember. All toxins are acidic. PvP in sto is very basic. Therefore, it cannot be toxic. If you want toxic, just go to general discussion.
I would recommend reading through the past years of posts, even as far back as the Archived area before continuing down your path. You're essentially walking into a leper colony and blaming everyone for being sick.
Okay, I'll entertain your analogy. I show up at the leper colony to point out that your quality of life sucks. Your quality of life sucks and there should have been vaccinations a long time ago. There should have been more done to improve your quality of life, and I empathize that the ball was dropped.
But swarming the doctors and trying to cannibalize them so you can ingest their soft tissues in an effort to cure your leprosy is not the way to go about improving your quality of life.
And me showing up to call attention to that does not make me the problem, either. I don't care how delicious the flesh of a doctor is.
Borticus, years ago, had a much higher rate of communication with the pvp community. Par for the course for the last 12-18 months for a dev coming into the pvp forum, its usually to throw mud or tell us how horrible we are. Or in CaptainSmirks case, go out of his way to make a post JUST FOR THE TROLL VALUE. Hawks last post before leaving Cryptic was literally a 2 paragraph tip toe around calling us idiots. Borticus's tone has change from (2-3 years ago) All powers must have an equal or near equal hard or soft counter available to all builds and if you can show us math proving your point we will work on it (SNB doffs, SDO Doffs, CSV god mode from ages ago, time set + tricos, voldemort, etc) to what he is now which is basically "I'll deal with it when we release the new shineys for you to buy and deny any form of possibility something is wrong with something we are currently selling until that point."
Maybe I agree with all of this. Maybe I don't. I know that PvP in STO is a minimally viable product. I know it sucks from a gameplay perspective. I do acknowledge that there are people out there trying to make the best of it, and you know what? More power to them.
The point is this. We can dwell over the past and beat a dead horse over how Cryptic screwed up PvP in this game. Or we can try to make the best of it when Cryptic does lend us their ear.
Or we can just set the forums on fire and say Cryptic made us do it.
It's really up to us on where we go from here. From my perspective, the decision has already been made from the players' side of the table.
Just remember. All toxins are acidic. PvP in sto is very basic. Therefore, it cannot be toxic. If you want toxic, just go to general discussion.
The atmosphere among PvPers is toxic. Not the gameplay itself. At least, that was what I took away from it when I used to PvP on a regular basis. It had nothing to do with being insulted.
It had everything to do with making a really lackluster PvP experience even more miserable by the people I played with.
Yeah. Nothing says mature, adult response like picking up your ball and going home after whining about how somebody hurt your feelings over the internet.
I'd recommend cutting the cable if you get sick over what Borticus said, which compared to some of the other things I've seen people say on the internet -- let alone the STO forums by fellow players, that maybe consider the possibility the internet is not the place for you.
The truth isn't all sunshine and rainbows. But it's still the truth and that's something these forums could use a lot more of from Cryptic.
Cryptic isn't responsible for your emotions. You are. If you can't handle the truth, then I wish you luck in your OPvP firesale that I'm sure you are 100% serious on and aren't exaggerating or blowing hot air over.
I'm sure Cryptic will be absolutely devastated that you're selling you're gear and duty officers to other players. I'm not sure how they'll ever recover from this shattering and overpowering blow you're going to deal them on the OPvP channel.
The fact people still believe this to be a logical and productive course of action on the STO forums (or anywhere in life) makes me facepalm.
who's only purpose is to antagonize, to goad antagonistic response, so you can go SEE! look how toxic they are! by sinking to my level! now i'll write a big wall of text about my moral high ground, were i talk about how above above it i am, wile actually neck deep in it.
it must be for the attention, the guarantied responses generated by your special mix of ignorance and antagonism, because all your posting follows this pattern. ether that, or trolling for the sake of trolling is your favorite past time.
the pvp community being toxic didn't even happen until DR anyway, when cryptic ruined it and pretty much the rest of the game beyond all hope. for the 4 years prior, we bent over backwards to be helpful and post feedback, and time and time again ignored us and shot pvp in the foot with new additions that would take months to even get acknowledged were game breaking. the toxicity was entirely manufactured by cryptic, it is cause and effect. after more then 4 years, were every step was a step back, it took us this long to get this ugly. our patience is staggering.
Comments
Let's talk about Tribble feedback shall we. Delta Rising alone, here are a list of things that made it into the game in current form regardless of feedback about them (and 80% were later nerfed).
-Isokinetic Cannon
-Surgical Strikes 1-3
-Neutronic Torpedo modified by TS3
-Bug Hunt Queue not working properly
-Kobali Ground error allowing 55k Dil/hr while standing idle.
These are things I myself personally reported in feedback and bug reports. Of ALL of these reports, the only thing any dev (commander rand) ever took time to fix was the 55k/hr dil while standing idle glitch on Kobali Ground. SS and Neutronic was eventually "Fixed" on holodeck, as well as the issue with bug hunt (the invisible wall being put into play to prevent pre-timer ending failures).
So basically, you're saying to us that our information is in the wrong subforum for you to ignore, and to please redirect it to the proper subforum, so you can ignore it?
Also players 4-100 couldn't be in agreement, they are not 100 pvpers left in this game. Understand that throughout the history of this game, any time you, the lead systems dev, is presented with actual math as to why a power is broken or over tuned, you get defensive and tell us we are wrong. Bort, you need to wake up. Rather than reinforcing this negativity you are speaking of by creating and releasing more broken product, how about you sit down with the more intellectual members of the pvp community who have, for years, offered to help you, for free. Remember Atayani from TSI? The person who lived 15 minutes from your office and offered to come into Cryptic Studios to personally show you the Attack Pattern Delta stacking glitch you wouldn't even acknowledge as existing for over 6 months? Yeah, you said no to them too.
Don't come into someones house and throw stones bort. Even if we're renting the house from you.
"isolated community" "small number of players".
Just remember that more and more of your players can be described that way:
-klingons: isolated community, small number of players
-DPS crowd - same
-people that still try to keep fleets together - same
I'm sorry, but yes, this game is dead. You can only milk Star Trek franchise that much before even the most hardcore fan gives up, which is now happening.
STO is not a game anymore. It's space themed farming "gamish" app.
And the fault is only yours. you have constantly removed challenges from game and pushed overpowered stuff to boost sales or time spent.
You alone have left your game without any worthwhile or challenging gaming content.
And you turned against PvPers who constantly reported broken stuff, bugs etc. in favor of power creep and bug abusers that is DPS community simply to push your shortsited and shorterm strategy of selling next OP DPS thing.
Congratulations and Bravo. You managed to remove GAME element from GAME and replaced it with something more suited for some mobile app.
And you cumulatively managed to remove Star Trek from Star Trek Online.
What is left is only Online.
When servers don't fail, that is.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
For someone that doesn't understand that being insulting =/= toxic personality, that does seem hypocritical.
But I guess for someone interested in making personal attacks instead of trying to debate the points I've tried to make, you'll grasp at whatever straws you can to try to deflect any sort of criticism.
So, by all means, keep it up. You sure are managing to stick it to me.
As long as people continue to think my observations and points I try to make are just for attention instead of trying to emphasise destructive behavior that maybe should be altered, nobody is going to take what PvPers have to say seriously.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people on the STO forums are capable of dishing it out, but fall apart like glass when the notion of being able to take it is brought up.
So, you're saying people are not responding to me with personal attacks?
Because that is what I am seeing now, and it's really not that unusual.
People demonstrate toxic behavior. I point out they are demonstrating toxic behavior. Then they respond by saying that I am the real problem because I am the one pointing out their toxic behavior.
The only reason the Galileo fallacy works, is because it is guilt by association. The only reason I say "People", "Individuals", "Posters", or whatever is because of the forum TOS, where I am not allowed to name and shame people.
It is not because I am unable to point out specific people and what they are doing. It is because the thread then turns into a flame war over personal attacks instead of productive discussion if I did. In the rare instances productive discussion is gleaned from a thread, that is.
And no, the irony that people seem like to go after me personally instead of the points I make is not lost on me. But it doesn't really matter.
Holding people accountable for the things they say ends up derailing threads, because people need their internet honor to remain untarnished or something.
You made no points, you just insult pvp'rs. It looks like you are just a alt of some dev.
From my personal experience, people who bemoan social "exclusion" by the PvP community usually show a common set of bad traits and habits, like difficulties to stomach defeat, lack of sportsmanship and disregard for established netiquette.
To suggest that old players don't want new players to join, because they might pose a 'threat' in the future, is ridiculous. Take off your tin foil hat please.
Oh please, yes, let's make it about how the devs are literally satan.
Blow it out your aft.
Looks at thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1423101
as of right now, nope. Only illcadia has. Not that I agree with how borticus talked in his post, but it is kind of echoey here.
I'm not happy with the state PvP is in currently either. Yes there was no feedback taken into account for DR but look at command and pilot powers. They're really balanced and they're taking feedback. They even have player testers and a focus group for the pilot powers. That's more than they had for any other season. The very least we can do is promote the improved communication from the devs instead of bringing up things that happened a while ago (some even years ago from people that don't even work for cryptic anymore).
So, let's actually provide feedback where the devs will see.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1423101
What was your point ?
Seriously I don't remember reading one. The only thing I remember in any of your posts was your assertion that the PvP community in STO is filled with hate and is in general toxic.
No one is denying that the forums have been made toxic due to the mishandling of the community by the developer. In game however that is a different story. I have experienced nothing more toxic in STO PvP then I have in STO DPS PvE, or STO Pug Que PvE. I can't speak to the RP community however judging by the number of Anti Disco ball... anti Erper posts in the general section, I think its fair to say toxic people inhabit all corners of the game.
So yes I will call your troll now... nice try. We aren't going to fight with you iconians. If you don't want to PvP don't. We aren't going to force you. And yes I stand by what I have already posted... in my experience if anyone is running into more toxic situations in STO then they would consider normal (because jerks pop up everywhere now and then that's life) well its likely that your attracting it somehow.
Has anyone seen a bomb threat against Cryptic in any other part of the forums besides the PvP gameplay sub-forums?
just like how all muslims are suicide bombing terrorists, genius? next time you feel the urge to ask the stupidest question you are capable of formulating, keep it to your self.
Wow! You're right, your insane hyperbole has shown me the error of my ways.
Say what? The part about DDIS' hyperbole or the fact that the STO's PvPers has at least one very insane loon?
I feel like this guy didn't read my first post and just got ticked over the 2nd one.
As of yet, my arguments have not been answered, so I can assume they are true.
I'm am very sorry if I insulted you, if you read my post you will notice it was not being directed towards you, so you did not have to answer.
Again, very sorry your feeling are hurt, not my intention. My main post was the first one, in which case has not been disputed.
Thank you for your time!
Please don't do it cryptic I will pay more money for you not to.
its ok, it takes a wile to realize you can only hurt people like this when you ignore them
We need cryptic to not integrate these reputation traits into the game.
Its already done. Cryptic doesn't listen to feedback. After 5 years everyone knows that.
The only times they have ever listened is when someone said... hey X or Y is giving us more D then it should be.
Everything else that seems really broken. What people need to realize... its not broken. Its on purpose. The bugs and OP stuff that effect game play are all on purpose to sell something. It will all get "Fixed" down the line when things have sold out.
If you enjoy playing trek barbie stick around and play whats here... if you want to engage a developer and have a good time PvPing your going to have to have another mmo installed.
As depressing as it is, he's absolutely right. Cryptic has made it a cycle: they come out with unbalanced new stuff and a few months down the road they start to consider balancing issues.
Then they come out with new stuff and the cycle starts again.
Wish they didn't add things for random reasons. As of yet, the only reason why they are adding this is because they have no imagination and need a trait people would want. They never asked the community.
I don't want to sound stupid, but would the game be better if it was owned by Blizzard or something?
Alright, I'll bite. I hope you like walls of text.
Toxicity is not defined by personal insults. I've been on the internet long enough that personal insults really do not bother me. Just because they don't bother me doesn't mean I'm not capable of recognizing that I'm being insulted.
I just don't feel like it's a productive usage of my time on the STO forums to get involved in little snipe wars most of the time. If somebody is going to go after me instead of the points I make, I usually don't even bother responding.
Toxicity on the other hand, is more of a personality observation. Toxicity is a broad definition that is really more of a set tone than whatever the topic matter is. Toxicity is where somebody is so miserable that they just want to make the experience miserable for others. Dragging others down to their level. It's about destruction, not construction.
I have no issues with trash talk, particularly in regards to PvP. Competition encourages it.
I do have an issue with toxicity. I've had plenty of lurkers in the STO forums talk to me over the past few years on how they simply refuse to participate in the STO forums as a result of the toxicity. You'll see it mentioned elsewhere on third-party forums the toxic atmosphere the STO forums seem to not only cultivate, but breed.
Where toxic personalities consistently feed off of each other, this is where Borticus comes in. Because it really is just a cycle. Nothing new is gained. No new thoughts are shared. It is the same echo chamber that has been mentioned already.
That is the difference between toxicity and insults. I mention that I agree with Borticus, and instead of people in this thread reflecting on the kind of behavior that goes on in the STO forums (particularly the PvP forums), it just becomes another echo chamber cacophany.
That is why I comment. Because it is honestly comical that people actually believe some of this stuff they say. They're so saturated in this toxic atmosphere of disdain that they can't recognize that what they are saying on the PvP forums is getting them the exact opposite results they allegedly desire.
Instead of considering the possibility Borticus is right (and to be fair, he's not always right), we see evidence of personal attacks on him regarding "professionalism". Instead of considering that maybe there is an error in the line of communication from the players' side of things, we see evidence that Cryptic has "forced their hand", and that they are so disillusioned with STO and Cryptic that they don't even know why the STO forums exist anymore.
This is what toxicity is. It's the absolute disregard for feedback to create a better game, a better atmosphere. It becomes a football match. It becomes "us" vs. "them". It just becomes a polarized, bitter atmosphere of cynicism where the end goal of the posters is to see who can be "right".
But STO's community doesn't have to be about who is right and who is wrong. It can be about fostering lines of communication. It can be about introducing positive change instead of holding grudges against Cryptic for their past mistakes. It can be about acknowledging mistakes made and simply looking forward and hoping for the best -- and then calling Cryptic out on where they fail and where they succeed after the fact.
It can be all of these things. But enough people on the STO forums have decided they don't want it to be any of this. I can't say I blame them, because I do understand some of this resentment.
But when I see threads where I'm accused of being a Cryptic dev's alt. When I see people who play and create video games compared to murderers and terrorists. When I see forumball mentalities... I can't help but laugh.
You have Cryptic's ear. And instead of using time and effort to get a better game, I just see Khan saying, "For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee."
People wonder why Cryptic doesn't take forum feedback into consideration. You can't build a better game when a large enough portion of the STO forums simply want blood. You can't create lines of communication based on hatred.
People consistently and habitually blow their chance to get Cryptic to listen to them, all for the sake of being "right".
That is toxicity. And the PvP experience (at least for me) is much the same. Toxic personalities that feed off of each other. It goes beyond trash talk in Ker'rat. It becomes an atmosphere of hatred and loathing over a very obvious minimally-viable product that they play anyway.
And that is why I just play other video games with better PvP experiences and better communities where you can be competitive without being toxic.
Another fine example of how being right is more important than getting results.
I would recommend reading through the past years of posts, even as far back as the Archived area before continuing down your path. You're essentially walking into a leper colony and blaming everyone for being sick.
Borticus, years ago, had a much higher rate of communication with the pvp community. Par for the course for the last 12-18 months for a dev coming into the pvp forum, its usually to throw mud or tell us how horrible we are. Or in CaptainSmirks case, go out of his way to make a post JUST FOR THE TROLL VALUE. Hawks last post before leaving Cryptic was literally a 2 paragraph tip toe around calling us idiots. Borticus's tone has change from (2-3 years ago) All powers must have an equal or near equal hard or soft counter available to all builds and if you can show us math proving your point we will work on it (SNB doffs, SDO Doffs, CSV god mode from ages ago, time set + tricos, voldemort, etc) to what he is now which is basically "I'll deal with it when we release the new shineys for you to buy and deny any form of possibility something is wrong with something we are currently selling until that point."
Just remember. All toxins are acidic. PvP in sto is very basic. Therefore, it cannot be toxic. If you want toxic, just go to general discussion.
Okay, I'll entertain your analogy. I show up at the leper colony to point out that your quality of life sucks. Your quality of life sucks and there should have been vaccinations a long time ago. There should have been more done to improve your quality of life, and I empathize that the ball was dropped.
But swarming the doctors and trying to cannibalize them so you can ingest their soft tissues in an effort to cure your leprosy is not the way to go about improving your quality of life.
And me showing up to call attention to that does not make me the problem, either. I don't care how delicious the flesh of a doctor is.
Maybe I agree with all of this. Maybe I don't. I know that PvP in STO is a minimally viable product. I know it sucks from a gameplay perspective. I do acknowledge that there are people out there trying to make the best of it, and you know what? More power to them.
The point is this. We can dwell over the past and beat a dead horse over how Cryptic screwed up PvP in this game. Or we can try to make the best of it when Cryptic does lend us their ear.
Or we can just set the forums on fire and say Cryptic made us do it.
It's really up to us on where we go from here. From my perspective, the decision has already been made from the players' side of the table.
The atmosphere among PvPers is toxic. Not the gameplay itself. At least, that was what I took away from it when I used to PvP on a regular basis. It had nothing to do with being insulted.
It had everything to do with making a really lackluster PvP experience even more miserable by the people I played with.
who's only purpose is to antagonize, to goad antagonistic response, so you can go SEE! look how toxic they are! by sinking to my level! now i'll write a big wall of text about my moral high ground, were i talk about how above above it i am, wile actually neck deep in it.
it must be for the attention, the guarantied responses generated by your special mix of ignorance and antagonism, because all your posting follows this pattern. ether that, or trolling for the sake of trolling is your favorite past time.
the pvp community being toxic didn't even happen until DR anyway, when cryptic ruined it and pretty much the rest of the game beyond all hope. for the 4 years prior, we bent over backwards to be helpful and post feedback, and time and time again ignored us and shot pvp in the foot with new additions that would take months to even get acknowledged were game breaking. the toxicity was entirely manufactured by cryptic, it is cause and effect. after more then 4 years, were every step was a step back, it took us this long to get this ugly. our patience is staggering.