test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options
Infected Space upcomming changes
jellico1
Member Posts: 2,719
With all the changes to AZNRA we can expect big changes to the Borg STFs when there finally done
The thing is I don't want to see any change at all except turn the Fail into a bonus and remove timers
However the only change I would love to see..And I know I wont see it is when a player is destroyed they are ejected from the STF at that point and another player in the Q replaces them
That would be a change I would love seeing
Starting farther away from the first spawn would be nice and a 60 second timer before you can move
I would also like to have the spawn point moved to the left side instead of at the middle
I think the shields and hit points of the borg are ok where they are but I would love to see new borg ships in the STF as well
The thing is I don't want to see any change at all except turn the Fail into a bonus and remove timers
However the only change I would love to see..And I know I wont see it is when a player is destroyed they are ejected from the STF at that point and another player in the Q replaces them
That would be a change I would love seeing
Starting farther away from the first spawn would be nice and a 60 second timer before you can move
I would also like to have the spawn point moved to the left side instead of at the middle
I think the shields and hit points of the borg are ok where they are but I would love to see new borg ships in the STF as well
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Post edited by jellico1 on
0
Comments
Fails into bonus? Like an optional? Something which is already there!
Remove timers? So, that people can take an eternity to complete the mission and/or, cause grief unto other's, by not really contributing much in the way of quickly completing the mission?
NTY on both counts IMO!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well it is coming , The Devs have already stated they were removing them
it seems the 10 mark 2 minute failures are going away on advanced might as well start adapting now
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1408731
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I dont think timers should be removed but they have to come up with a much more logical system that makes it possible for people to play in a group even with a griefer present which right now is not possible.
Broken mechanic is broken.
Adapt to what? Ever more easier missions? Lol!
Even with the fail mechanics in place, I still seen player's causing grief by simply keeping track of their dps #'s, than seemingly cease battling for the sake of leeching the rest of the time!
At least when this occurs, people can attempt to cause it to backfire on them, by purposely causing the mission to fail, that or force the mission to drag out forcing the leecher to re-engage battle.
Now, they don't have to engage nearly as often nor, for as long hence making their jobs of leeching much much easier.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Knowing how the AFK penalty works, that is quite honestly one of the worst suggestions ever. Scenario:
5 players enter Khitomer Space Advanced and go through it up until Dontra. At some point, Dontra's Thaeleron Pulse kills player 5. Player 5 is ejected from the game with some marginal reward, even though the queue will probably still succeed. Player 6 enters the game just before Dontra dies, and maybe get some reward. After leaving, player 6 finds that they've been given the 2 hour AFK penalty since they did less than 2% of the damage. Is this really fair to players 5 and 6?
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
i dont like having my time wasted i no longer do stf's that is my cure until they remove this problem which was created by cryptic coming up with a very bad idea. I pug stf's that is what I used them for *past tense* they simply were not interesting enough to worry about making a preformed group for 5 minutes of pew pew pew. I think that the q numbers speak for themselves and I am not the only one who stopped using them period.
I did some of them during the last event it was a horrible experience with the instant fails caused by what was probablyl just trolling I had to give up one day it was *that* bad. 2 hours of sitting in line to kill the crystalline entity was not my idea of a "fun time". So wont be using those q's until they fix what they broke. I still play the game but they can stuff those q's in their present form (pardon my french)
Well, those fail mechanics was supposed to encourage player's, to actually up their game.
But, we find many player's being hard headed about doing so and/or, totally clueless to something like actual difficulty, instead of the old anybody is a superhero faceroll stomping of old.
Add in those who use these missions, as an easy leech source with a multitude of alts and, no real investment into those alts other than for farming everything, by mooching off the capabilities of other's and, more people not actually bothering with using the queue because of these kinds of people and, it's no wonder they appear dead.
And, this doesn't even factor in people who have left the game temporarily/permanently.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Give them advice, hell, give them a complete outfit, ship and all.
THAT will be far more of help to everyone including yourself, than beating them down.
Done this but, there are so few worth investing in!
That is the underlining problem, not that there isn't tons of help available for them.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
humans dont work that way your just punishing everyone. If humans want to learn they will learn and those that dont .. wont ever learn no matter what you try to coax them to. The only way people learn is because they desire it. This is the basis of how people work.
The ultimate goal is to encourage participation and you dont do that by slapping everyone in the face repeatedly .... I stay out of normals because i have to downgrade my ship to give others a chance to participate.. that's not fun.. for me.. maybe its fun for those who are at that level..
I try to go to advanced.. but there we have a problem. One person can get into the group and deliberately fail the mission for everyone and in the case of the entity we had people ruining my fun in an effort to I dont know what their goal was? leech? troll? whatever I only know what it felt like to me.
so was anyone encourage to participate? NO? did I ? no?
why on earth would I even bother with STF's in their present form? Well I wont be because I am here on my dime for my enjoyment not to be trollbait and to make some others griefers day.
With the removal of the instant fail conditions, I see more and more people running these missions that have neither the experience nor capability to complete the Advanced levels within the optional time limit. Meaning either the mission gets dragged out longer than it needs to be. Now I know this isn't a great issue, but it removes one of reasons to encourage people to improve their game play.
Another issue I see is in order for these missions to be completed with the optional objectives, it means some players will inevitably end up carrying those that are not so competent in the missions. Hence the same out come from my first observation rises again, why would those being carried need to improve? except for their own pride and knowledge that they can hold their own.
Your argument has merits, but that's providing people are willing to accept help. Not everyone is, for example there's another thread in this very section where the OP is complaining that the base story missions are now to hard. But refuses to listen or accept help people that are willing to offer help. Plus while I might not be the biggest fan of the DPS channels, I've picked up some useful information from some of their members. And simply handing someone a complete build on a platter, means they wont learn how and why certain builds work well and others just fail miserably.
I wish you would tell that to lawmaker's, who seemingly forgot how this works!
Overall yes there could be something better but, as it is right now, it's either what we have currently or, make it so people just mooch off other's easier for doing nothing pretty much.
Just show up and, collect the rewards!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
That's just it though, unless you tie in some major rewards only to optionals, than the majority who feel no need to actually put forth the effort, just simply let other's do all of the work for them while they collect.
They get pretty much all they ever need, by doing very little or, nothing as it is now!
This isn't going to change any, with these changes at all, only made worse!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Rush, is that you?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
yup quoted for truth. the q system by design is for casual pugging that is what they are used for jump in.. play and jump out..
If they want to make them into a raid type instance fine.. we had that originally LOL (way back when I was here when they released the first borg raid content ... long long ago )
but they added the q system and these short 5-10 minute things for "quicky" stuff by their own definition if you read back that is what it was for.. now they are trying to turn this quicky jump in shoot and jump out stuff back into a raid situation.
so its become a mangled mess.
You can't stop people from trying to leech in such a system that is the point but you can prevent others from being hurt and having their time wasted by making it so that leeches dont matter or waste the time of the rest of the group. This is the basic compromise of using such a system.
The present autofail option is not teaching anyone anything LOL sure it stops leeching dead in its track.. but it also stops those who are not leeching and forces them to avoid using the q system altogether and use premade groups. .. but we are in the circular argument "why have a quick q system designed for pugging if no one can use it just delete it then"
So do I do stf's that were designed for pugging when it is now unpuggable? Nope. I do something else because its not much fun sitting in a line due to time penalties because I dared to pug in a system designed for pugs LOL.
If the goal of the "failq" mechanic was to get rid of casual pick up groups then I would say it was an epic unmittigated success.
However I do not think this was the goal. You cannot get rid of trolls, leeches and griefers in an open f2p game its just not possible its gonna happen but you can minimize the effects and reduce the impact on the rest of the gaming community by making it so that their gameplay is minimally affected by their presence.
So there are two choices here;
just dump the q system completely
or dump the cause of the present problem which was the introduction of the instant fail conditions and find a better way ...
Create a new Advanced tier...gated on the public end, but open on the private end. Gated how? Meh, who knows? It's not a new problem...it existed before the F2P conversion...it even existed before STO. Other games have handled it in various ways. Advanced would offer better rewards to those that get past the gate.
Create a new Elite tier...ungated. Ungated???? Yeah, cause there's no public end. It's Elite, yeah? So private queue only - form that team. Elite would offer better rewards to those players capable of tackling it.
Would follow something like the following...
Normal: Optional, Optional
Advanced: Mandatory, Optional, Optional
Elite: Mandatory, Mandatory, Optional
...where an additional Objective would be added to the Advanced and Elite, between the Transformer Objective and the Timer Objective (which would remain Optional, but be lowered some for the Advanced and Elite respectively).
Then the folks that just want VR mats can spend all day doing that. The folks that want to see how they can improve could do that. And the folks that just slap the game silly might have something to do.
Odds are, a bunch of folks that are faux-DPS folks would end up just running ISN via channels - cause they're not really up to any sort of challenge and are just farming things. A bunch of folks might actually get a kick out of Advanced, having something that's more than fly around in circles resting on their spacebar while watching Netflix. They're not the Elite folks though, they know it, they just want something between Normal and Elite. The folks running Elite would likely make a joke out of any content there...so it could require some constant tuning or perhaps some dynamic content to changes based on what the group is doing.
Then do the same with all the queues.
And yeah, the public ISN (which was ISA) will end up being a cesspool.
But hey, that's what they're asking for - no? So give it to them...but offer something to the folks not looking to drown in the miasma.
They put a 15 minute Optional that doesn't start until after the first engagement completes in something they expected to take 5-10 minutes? Er...yeah...might want to rethink that revisionist stuff there.
As much as I wanted to take this seriously ... , I was reminded about all the Elite queues that were supposed to come .
... still, this may have a better chance of happening then more Elite queues for our current STF's ...
You know as well as many including myself, that where the major source of reward(s) are, than everyone will flood those missions, good player's, bad player's, lecher's, trolls, etc.
Just like it is now and, has been previously.
They would have to either, make it oh so easy for everyone to get them or, force people to actively achieve them and, neither makes everyone happy!
So, we come full circle like always.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Oh look a catch 22! Eject players who need to get BPN's for gearing for STF's :rolleyes:.
But then again it seems that Threat Generation on this game is usually to blame for that which you find a problem. Half the time on these STF's I find I am the one getting gang banged by the Sphere's etc and there are others at least within 3km around me firing on the same targets. . . Threat Generation is what needs to be closer looked at.
And for the record, no I do not have Threat control in skills or other.
So you'd have fresh 50s thrown into the instant shield stripping mess of Borg spheres and cubes with maybe mk x weapons? That idea needs serious rethinking. You're talking about major requirement increases to DPS and survivability, that is the difference between normal and advanced.
As for gating things, that has never worked in any game I've ever played. You do just enough to get past the gate, then you can AFK/leech/grief as much as you want. Maybe some people learn something, but more than likely, they followed a guide written or otherwise set up whatever was required explicitly for passing the gate, which doesn't necessarily translate to actual value for anything past the gate.
Cryptic can't fix people, but they can do a better job of providing for different people.
This build: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=derpyhoragh_5343 :is overkill for ISA.
Again, Cryptic can't fix people...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to provide for others. Sounds like Cryptic should just give up, eh? I'd rather they didn't.
While this would make it more realistic and a good concept, that would encourage stronger teaming.
Im all for more creative ways to get the Anti Social Nerds to join a chat sever and really learn how to play.
The only concern I can see is a group of four pulling out leaving a class cannon to get blown up.
Then this change would have the Glassers would be whining on forms or the raging about team heals.
DR was a complete failure on moving Anti Socials into groups.
What the real issue how to get people to look at dying more serious.
I'm have seen Glassers die several times in a STF while trying to break their own personal record.
General loners don't even understand that Mk2 gear and 2k of DPS is not average.
So you would force peolple to use Tank/Self Healing builds instead of DPS builds and making a STF take forever to complete. Well, I guess this will work with the penalty timers removed in the Advanced Ques. FYI, higher DPS draws aggro, if you draw to much aggro you die. I guess we could all go to single target builds but then again aggro will go to whomever has high DPS for whatever NPC is not being hit. Bottom line, If your scared to die then you will never put out higher DPS.
No, no , and no .... the advanced mission need to be even tighter so that low level noobs cant mooch points and rewards when theyre not doing anything. Allowing the mission to continu for ever will only let troller have more fun ...
Instore a 10% minimum total damage to collect rewards ... afk penalty upped to 12hrs ... afk timer before kick .. 1 min
The problem with your suggestion is what prevents people in Advanced Optional demanding again in the forums that they make Advanced Mandatories easier for them because they want to do it?
It is the same logic as creating these new levels so instead of the current 3 you will got 9. but once players start complaining again, they will demand for 18 types of optionals and mandatories.
The second issue what makes us sure that those demanding this are significant in population? Later on the population may be 100 or less who happens to frequent the STO forums versus those thousands and millions who dont go to the forums. If that were the case, the game would sacrifice thousands and millions for the sake of a few dozen to hundred who just cant play the game right or just want to leech or wants to grief but complains much/pvps much in the STO forum. In this thread you will see very frequent STO forum dwellers who complains about this on multiple threads, which proves the point of which population really wants the change?
However, I dont mind you guys making too many levels of missions as long as I get 100 Salvage tech for finishing Elite-Mandatory while all players doing elite optionals and all advanced/normal get 0 Salvage tech. The commies and spoonfeeding population gets their easy mission and BNPs but the elitists needs to have better rewards for doing stuff. Otherwise, if rewards are minimal difference at the top, there is no point of doing harder missions. In a way, we can treat Elite mandatories as the raid dungeons which gives you treasure...sorry 100 salvage tech.
Er...how does having three tiers become having nine tiers? Oh, the Objectives. Those aren't separate tiers. There would only be three tiers. What comes afterward are the Objective requirements for the tier.
Normal: Optional, Optional
Advanced: Mandatory, Optional, Optional
Elite: Mandatory, Mandatory, Optional
ISN would have the Optional Objective of preventing the Nanites getting to the Transformer and the 15 minute Optional Objective of completing the run.
ISA would have the Mandatory Objective of preventing the Nanites getting to the Transformer, an additional Optional Objective, and the 15 minute Optional Objective of completing the run would be shorter than 15 minutes.
ISE would have the Mandatory Objective of preventing the Nanites getting to the Transformer, the additional Optional Objective would be a Mandatory Objective, and the 15 minute Optional Objective of completing the run would be even shorter than 15 minutes.
edit: Cause personally, I'd rather Cryptic gave the current ISA (minus the Mandatory Objective) to certain folks in the form of ISN - so they could get their rewards in that fashion, than for Cryptic to do the massive nerf they did with ANRA to ISA and the rest of the queues as far as rewards go.
Scared to die, you act like its a requirement for high DPS.
It should be shamed upon as its a true failure.
One should now that blowing is not a good thing.
After all you are not doing any DPS while your waiting to respawn.
Your ship is OP in normal but can't handle advanced? How does that work?
Humans respond to incentives. If there are no fail conditions, then people will play the mission terribly, get their participation award, and repeat it again later. If there are, then they'll try to improve if they think it's worth their time.
It's annoying to me to play a queue and be the only person trying to play it correctly. I've stayed away from ANRA since it got dumbed down and, judging from the few people who I see in that queue over the last few weeks, not many people have decided to go in there and hang out for 12 minutes to get their participation award.