And this was not expected sheer incompetence I would expect the guards and this lawyer be put to death for this as well as the person who authorized her use of the pad. If a Klingon had failed he would have been killed for this. I'm hoping now that we can do what the weak wouldn't allow and now kill sela once and for all and also the romulan traitor
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What! A transport hijack! How about a suicide attack by her brain washed drones? Perhaps, after she faked her death and as a result of the reduction in security she was rescued. I am coming up with several other more interesting scenarios as I type this. I was not very critical of Cryptic/PW, but this is just lazy story telling and a more proof of Cruptic or Pathetic Waste lacking a basic interest in the game.
The storytelling is Not powerful as in the old episode when something came out of the gate and took Sela away
That means something big is coming? if not the buildup of tension or plot thickens need more thickning stuffs
or it will be down in STO episode as poopy pants
What I hope is they're not gonna go with "this voice actor can't return? Let's kill the character off in a lazy way, like off-screen or making him evil all along".
I can only hope Gaius (if it's the right one) did this because a Romulan Temporal Agent went to him because he had the knowledge for that and was convinced to help Sela escape because she's a key to defeat the Iconians/the Iconians were about to pop a gate on New Romulus and kill everyone to get her/other weird stuff only a temporal agent knows/etc...
This way, it could be a nice preview to the Delta Recruitment event involving the temporal agencies, without making a character, which had no reason to be loyal to the RSE, loyal to it all along.
And this was not expected sheer incompetence I would expect the guards and this lawyer be put to death for this as well as the person who authorized her use of the pad.
Dayum... someone's out for green blood. Why does the Republic need to go Tal Shiar kill-'em-all when something goes wrong? That's not how the Republic does things. There'll be some pretty serious questioning and interrogating going on, but no one's getting killed off for the sake of it.
The only ones to blame, from my view, are Seken and Gaius Selan. And they'll be brought to justice. Heck, even Sela was going to be afforded her time in the courts - both of these guys will get their time as well.
Captain, we're sending you an emergency report we just received from Mol'Rihan. It's regarding the 'prisoner' Sela. There has been an incident that requires your attention.
"Golly Batman! Sela has escaped!"
"Right Robin"
"I'll use my X-Ray vision from above and see if I can spot her"
Haha! Sorry, I had a flashback for a second there
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
OK I almost can understand why they did this. Sela is like Joker levels of fun to write for and is more fun as an actual antagonist than a captured "Hannibal Lector" type adviser...
But I hate this ... I hate this so very much ... because it makes no sense besides idiot ball ...
Things people seem to be forgetting:
Each Faction has one or more telepathic races:
Vulcans, Betazed, Bajorans(limited) and Rigellians for the Federation alone, the Vulcans can literally mind meld with you and learn about your entire life, ever lie, what your GOING to OR PLAN ON doing.
And lets us not forget that full on Betazeds (Troi was mixed) can do more than just read your emotions they are straight up Telepathic and can read your damn thoughts at anytime without you knowing or without having to "show it" in any way shape or form.
The Romulan Republic have Remans, who can literally LET OTHERS mind assault you from miles away with their powers! And did I mention they generally HATE Sela and the Tal'Shiar? No shortage of volunteers there. Especially if you bring up the name Hakeev.
The Klingons have freaking Lethians who can induce a euphoric state and kill you with FREAKING PLEASURE and the gosh darned thing is called RAPTURE!
There is NO justifiable reason that they could not have used one of these species to interrogate Sela without, Starfleet has ample exceptions for letting Vulcans mind meld with prisoners to attain information.
Not just that but seriously, if Sela was going to escape it shouldn't be because it's basically the plot from Money Train or the video game Pay Day -- ONE OF THE GUARDS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE ROBBERS/KIDNAPPERS/ViLLIANS.
At the very least it should have been a commando raid to get her or Selan taking over the damn Lieset, somehow getting her transported there and taking her AND the Romulan flag ship.
I do not like this because its sloppy and makes no sense in a universe where people can link telepathically with a living rock made of lava or acid. It would have been easy enough for one of the factions to get anyting they wanted from Sela and any possible escape plans without her consent or help.
OK I almost can understand why they did this. Sela is like Joker levels of fun to write for and is more fun as an actual antagonist than a captured "Hannibal Lector" type adviser...
But I hate this ... I hate this so very much ... because it makes no sense besides idiot ball ...
Things people seem to be forgetting:
Each Faction has one or more telepathic races:
Vulcans, Betazed, Bajorans(limited) and Rigellians for the Federation alone, the Vulcans can literally mind meld with you and learn about your entire life, ever lie, what your GOING to OR PLAN ON doing.
And lets us not forget that full on Betazeds (Troi was mixed) can do more than just read your emotions they are straight up Telepathic and can read your damn thoughts at anytime without you knowing or without having to "show it" in any way shape or form.
The Romulan Republic have Remans, who can literally LET OTHERS mind assault you with their powers! And did I mention they generally HATE Sela and the Tal'Shiar? No shortage of volunteers there. Especially if you bring up the name Hakeev.
The Klingons have freaking Lethians who can induce a euphoric state and kill you with FREAKING PLEASURE and the gosh darned thing is called RAPTURE!
There is NO justifiable reason that they could not have used one of these species to interrogate Sela without, Starfleet has ample exceptions for letting Vulcans mind meld with prisoners to attain information.
Not just that but seriously, if Sela was going to escape it shouldn't be because it's basically the plot from Money Train or the video game Pay Day -- ONE OF THE GUARDS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE ROBBERS/KIDNAPPERS/ViLLIANS.
At the very least it should have been a commando raid to get her or Selan taking over the damn Lieset, somehow getting her transported there and taking her AND the Romulan flag ship.
I do not like this because its sloppy and makes no sense in a universe where people can link telepathically with a living rock made of lava or acid. It would have been easy enough for one of the factions to get anyting they wanted from Sela and any possible escape plans without her consent or help.
Go back and replay "What's Left Behind" with a telepath.
Go back and replay "What's Left Behind" with a telepath.
Vulcan mind melds in general ignore all such defenses except for certain HIGHLY TRAINED and mentally adept VULCANS **cough** Spock **cough**
There are almost no instances in cannon where someone who was not utterly alien resisted it without being a Vulcan, part of that is probably due to it being a 'touch attack' and that Vulcans can literally pass their 'soul' (or your soul) through a mind meld.
And if you saw any of the cannon shows, Humans and Romulans seem even more susseptible than most other races to the mind meld. Which is one of the reasons Romulans are generally terrified of Vulcans. It is also probably the reason they are generally terrified of Remans.
Sela was either bluffing her TRIBBLE off or the writer really didn't know cannon that well and just used that as a hand wave to keep people from complaining about not being able to use telepathy of some kind.
Edit: I just realized who I was responding to. I apologize if I seemed rude or impertanent but my point still stands. If you can find an example IN CANON of even a highly trained human or Romulan who resisted a MIND MELD, I will not only eat my words I will do so with relish... and a little ketchup.
And yeah I know its your game but come on man, Sela can somehow lie to a damn Vulcan through mind meld? A MIND MELD? Even Sloan would have avoided a Vulcan like the plague and he had his mind set up to kill himself and anyone else dumb enough to try to mentally probe him in any way.
Vulcans can't use their telepathy at range, and forcing your way into someone else's mind by grabbing their face and battering their way through their mind against their will is really, really creepy. And Vulcans object to that kind of brutal violation as against their philosophy.
And Sela is still a Romulan who can break most Betazoids, Letheans, Bajorans and Rigelians in half with her bare hands. Getting close enough to her enter her mind will lead to her putting her fist through the back of their heads. Remember, a Romulan is about 3 times stronger than a Human. She's fully capable of tossing around most telepathic races like rag dolls.
Also, given what kind of a person is, Sela is probably trained to resist telepathic intrusion. Maybe she's studied the Cardassian methods, or the Tal Shiar figured out their own techniques to resist. Maybe she's just run that Telepathic Interrogation Resistance Training doff mission a lot.
Telepathy is hardly an "I know all your secrets" button.
Vulcans can't use their telepathy at range, and forcing your way into someone else's mind by grabbing their face and battering their way through their mind against their will is really, really creepy. And Vulcans object to that kind of brutal violation as against their philosophy.
And Sela is still a Romulan who can break most Betazoids, Letheans, Bajorans and Rigelians in half with her bare hands. Getting close enough to her enter her mind will lead to her putting her fist through the back of their heads. Remember, a Romulan is about 3 times stronger than a Human. She's fully capable of tossing around most telepathic races like rag dolls.
Also, given what kind of a person is, Sela is probably trained to resist telepathic intrusion. Maybe she's studied the Cardassian methods, or the Tal Shiar figured out their own techniques to resist. Maybe she's just run that Telepathic Interrogation Resistance Training doff mission a lot.
Telepathy is hardly an "I know all your secrets" button.
You are absolutely correct on all of those points. Anyone else but a Vulcan would probably be in deep TRIBBLE even if she was tied down, sedated, and temporarily made a quadruple amputee. Even then as you stated a Vulcan would be REALLY really really not comfortable doing it (but probably would for the greater good.)
But that is not how Cryptic stated it, the basic reasoning they gave was: We are not going to even try to interrogate her mentally because Sela said so.
I use to teach English literature at a collage as a student teacher for a few semesters before I got sick(er), and you don't leave a giant plot hole like that open, especially in a fan base who can probably recite each episode from memory including all the bleeps and bloops in the background, unless you want them to rip it to shreds like a bunch of hungry Texans at barbeque.
Completely predictable and entirely unconvincing. Unlimited technology from across the galaxy, and no one can keep the most wanted war criminal ever from escaping. Personally I'd have laced her with explosive nanites programmed to go off if she left designated areas...and not told her. But that's just shooting from the hip.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
I figure also that telepathic interrogation without consent is considered by most civilized races to be a pretty horrible thing. And the Republic still considers itself a nation of laws and wants to do this above board as possible.
Sela is also paranoid enough to have left some really nasty telepathic traps for anyone who tries to force their way in, and as former Tal Shiar herself with a great deal of experience in brainwashing and interrogation techniques - as well as surviving the cuthroat culture of Romulan politics - to set up mental defenses. Her only bargaining chip was her knowledge of the Iconians, and she knows the moment the Republic gets her information she's dead.
She also knows that the Republic may want to rip her brain out, but they are trying to maintain a moral high ground. Mindripping and brainwashing people was something the Tal Shiar did, and they want to prove to everyone - especially the Klingons and Federation - that they are not the Tal Shiar.
This whole thing was a test of the Republic by the Empire and Federation. While the Klingon Empire's rulers have few qualms or scruples, they are intensely interested in seeing how the Republic government handles this situation. Likewise, the Federation is doing their thing of smiling politely while watching the Romulans like hawks.
I figure also that telepathic interrogation without consent is considered by most civilized races to be a pretty horrible thing. And the Republic still considers itself a nation of laws and wants to do this above board as possible.
Sela is also paranoid enough to have left some really nasty telepathic traps for anyone who tries to force their way in, and as former Tal Shiar herself with a great deal of experience in brainwashing and interrogation techniques - as well as surviving the cuthroat culture of Romulan politics - to set up mental defenses. Her only bargaining chip was her knowledge of the Iconians, and she knows the moment the Republic gets her information she's dead.
She also knows that the Republic may want to rip her brain out, but they are trying to maintain a moral high ground. Mindripping and brainwashing people was something the Tal Shiar did, and they want to prove to everyone - especially the Klingons and Federation - that they are not the Tal Shiar.
This whole thing was a test of the Republic by the Empire and Federation. While the Klingon Empire's rulers have few qualms or scruples, they are intensely interested in seeing how the Republic government handles this situation. Likewise, the Federation is doing their thing of smiling politely while watching the Romulans like hawks.
I figure also that telepathic interrogation without consent is considered by most civilized races to be a pretty horrible thing. And the Republic still considers itself a nation of laws and wants to do this above board as possible.
Sela is also paranoid enough to have left some really nasty telepathic traps for anyone who tries to force their way in, and as former Tal Shiar herself with a great deal of experience in brainwashing and interrogation techniques - as well as surviving the cuthroat culture of Romulan politics - to set up mental defenses. Her only bargaining chip was her knowledge of the Iconians, and she knows the moment the Republic gets her information she's dead.
She also knows that the Republic may want to rip her brain out, but they are trying to maintain a moral high ground. Mindripping and brainwashing people was something the Tal Shiar did, and they want to prove to everyone - especially the Klingons and Federation - that they are not the Tal Shiar.
This whole thing was a test of the Republic by the Empire and Federation. While the Klingon Empire's rulers have few qualms or scruples, they are intensely interested in seeing how the Republic government handles this situation. Likewise, the Federation is doing their thing of smiling politely while watching the Romulans like hawks.
So they're playing this clean and by the books.
I see this as literally the most plausible explanation, but it would have been nice for Cryptic writers/bloggers to explain that as part of the story. It would have made the whole escape seem a lot less like idiot ball induced incompetence and more like Sela was a horribly frightening bad TRIBBLE who they were almost too afraid of...
Now if they actually address plausible reactions from the Empire and, especially, the Federations reaction to her escaping, that would go a long way to making up for other inadequacies.
Vulcan mind melds in general ignore all such defenses except for certain HIGHLY TRAINED and mentally adept VULCANS **cough** Spock **cough**
There are almost no instances in cannon where someone who was not utterly alien resisted it without being a Vulcan, part of that is probably due to it being a 'touch attack' and that Vulcans can literally pass their 'soul' (or your soul) through a mind meld.
And if you saw any of the cannon shows, Humans and Romulans seem even more susseptible than most other races to the mind meld. Which is one of the reasons Romulans are generally terrified of Vulcans. It is also probably the reason they are generally terrified of Remans.
Sela was either bluffing her TRIBBLE off or the writer really didn't know cannon that well and just used that as a hand wave to keep people from complaining about not being able to use telepathy of some kind.
Edit: I just realized who I was responding to. I apologize if I seemed rude or impertanent but my point still stands. If you can find an example IN CANON of even a highly trained human or Romulan who resisted a MIND MELD, I will not only eat my words I will do so with relish... and a little ketchup.
And yeah I know its your game but come on man, Sela can somehow lie to a damn Vulcan through mind meld? A MIND MELD? Even Sloan would have avoided a Vulcan like the plague and he had his mind set up to kill himself and anyone else dumb enough to try to mentally probe him in any way.
While I do not have a Romulan or human example, I do have solid proof that mind meld resistance is not a theoretical, and it is at the very least within Cardassian potential. Whether or not their resistance technique is teachable to that extent to other species is unknown but it is on the table as a possibility.
Gul Dukat successfully resisted a mind meld on screen, against Sakonna. She got exactly nada from him.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
While I do not have a Romulan or human example, I do have solid proof that mind meld resistance is not a theoretical, and it is at the very least within Cardassian potential. Whether or not their resistance technique is teachable to that extent to other species is unknown but it is on the table as a possibility.
Gul Dukat successfully resisted a mind meld on screen, against Sakonna. She got exactly nada from him.
But that was a questionably-trained touch telepath. We have trained mindhounds who can defeat Undine psi-masters, and that's just KDF side!
Remans can brain-hack people and allow other people to mind-r*pe a victim from hundreds if not thousands of meters away. Betazoids can hold extended telepathic conversations while seducing Ferengi. A trained Vulcan can mind-hack an Undine with apparent ease (or maybe that's just because Tuvok's badass). There are at LEAST two other telepathic species in the Federation alone.
Comments
No prison is perfect and you need to be Kirk & Spock to escape :P
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
What, Gaius Baltar in STO? :-D
That means something big is coming? if not the buildup of tension or plot thickens need more thickning stuffs
or it will be down in STO episode as poopy pants
I can only hope Gaius (if it's the right one) did this because a Romulan Temporal Agent went to him because he had the knowledge for that and was convinced to help Sela escape because she's a key to defeat the Iconians/the Iconians were about to pop a gate on New Romulus and kill everyone to get her/other weird stuff only a temporal agent knows/etc...
This way, it could be a nice preview to the Delta Recruitment event involving the temporal agencies, without making a character, which had no reason to be loyal to the RSE, loyal to it all along.
Dayum... someone's out for green blood. Why does the Republic need to go Tal Shiar kill-'em-all when something goes wrong? That's not how the Republic does things. There'll be some pretty serious questioning and interrogating going on, but no one's getting killed off for the sake of it.
The only ones to blame, from my view, are Seken and Gaius Selan. And they'll be brought to justice. Heck, even Sela was going to be afforded her time in the courts - both of these guys will get their time as well.
Or Km'tar or Franklin Drake.
That no legit half breed false empress doesn't deserve to be in power again
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Gaius_Selan
And this is why people arent aloowed to have nice things....
How does that old saying go? "When ya' plants carrots, ya' gets (wait for it) carrots!
Theres a reason why there are such things as solitary confinement and stripping a cell bare. "Teachable moment" maybe?
But poopy pants in a mission might be fun
"Golly Batman! Sela has escaped!"
"Right Robin"
"I'll use my X-Ray vision from above and see if I can spot her"
Haha! Sorry, I had a flashback for a second there
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
But I hate this ... I hate this so very much ... because it makes no sense besides idiot ball ...
Things people seem to be forgetting:
There is NO justifiable reason that they could not have used one of these species to interrogate Sela without, Starfleet has ample exceptions for letting Vulcans mind meld with prisoners to attain information.
Not just that but seriously, if Sela was going to escape it shouldn't be because it's basically the plot from Money Train or the video game Pay Day -- ONE OF THE GUARDS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE ROBBERS/KIDNAPPERS/ViLLIANS.
At the very least it should have been a commando raid to get her or Selan taking over the damn Lieset, somehow getting her transported there and taking her AND the Romulan flag ship.
I do not like this because its sloppy and makes no sense in a universe where people can link telepathically with a living rock made of lava or acid. It would have been easy enough for one of the factions to get anyting they wanted from Sela and any possible escape plans without her consent or help.
Go back and replay "What's Left Behind" with a telepath.
Vulcan mind melds in general ignore all such defenses except for certain HIGHLY TRAINED and mentally adept VULCANS **cough** Spock **cough**
There are almost no instances in cannon where someone who was not utterly alien resisted it without being a Vulcan, part of that is probably due to it being a 'touch attack' and that Vulcans can literally pass their 'soul' (or your soul) through a mind meld.
And if you saw any of the cannon shows, Humans and Romulans seem even more susseptible than most other races to the mind meld. Which is one of the reasons Romulans are generally terrified of Vulcans. It is also probably the reason they are generally terrified of Remans.
Sela was either bluffing her TRIBBLE off or the writer really didn't know cannon that well and just used that as a hand wave to keep people from complaining about not being able to use telepathy of some kind.
Edit: I just realized who I was responding to. I apologize if I seemed rude or impertanent but my point still stands. If you can find an example IN CANON of even a highly trained human or Romulan who resisted a MIND MELD, I will not only eat my words I will do so with relish... and a little ketchup.
And yeah I know its your game but come on man, Sela can somehow lie to a damn Vulcan through mind meld? A MIND MELD? Even Sloan would have avoided a Vulcan like the plague and he had his mind set up to kill himself and anyone else dumb enough to try to mentally probe him in any way.
And Sela is still a Romulan who can break most Betazoids, Letheans, Bajorans and Rigelians in half with her bare hands. Getting close enough to her enter her mind will lead to her putting her fist through the back of their heads. Remember, a Romulan is about 3 times stronger than a Human. She's fully capable of tossing around most telepathic races like rag dolls.
Also, given what kind of a person is, Sela is probably trained to resist telepathic intrusion. Maybe she's studied the Cardassian methods, or the Tal Shiar figured out their own techniques to resist. Maybe she's just run that Telepathic Interrogation Resistance Training doff mission a lot.
Telepathy is hardly an "I know all your secrets" button.
..Did Tovan finally get caught flashing at eppohs?
...oh, Sela again. Still, can't we arrest Tovan for eppoh worrying anyway?
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You are absolutely correct on all of those points. Anyone else but a Vulcan would probably be in deep TRIBBLE even if she was tied down, sedated, and temporarily made a quadruple amputee. Even then as you stated a Vulcan would be REALLY really really not comfortable doing it (but probably would for the greater good.)
But that is not how Cryptic stated it, the basic reasoning they gave was: We are not going to even try to interrogate her mentally because Sela said so.
I use to teach English literature at a collage as a student teacher for a few semesters before I got sick(er), and you don't leave a giant plot hole like that open, especially in a fan base who can probably recite each episode from memory including all the bleeps and bloops in the background, unless you want them to rip it to shreds like a bunch of hungry Texans at barbeque.
Completely predictable and entirely unconvincing. Unlimited technology from across the galaxy, and no one can keep the most wanted war criminal ever from escaping. Personally I'd have laced her with explosive nanites programmed to go off if she left designated areas...and not told her. But that's just shooting from the hip.
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Sela is also paranoid enough to have left some really nasty telepathic traps for anyone who tries to force their way in, and as former Tal Shiar herself with a great deal of experience in brainwashing and interrogation techniques - as well as surviving the cuthroat culture of Romulan politics - to set up mental defenses. Her only bargaining chip was her knowledge of the Iconians, and she knows the moment the Republic gets her information she's dead.
She also knows that the Republic may want to rip her brain out, but they are trying to maintain a moral high ground. Mindripping and brainwashing people was something the Tal Shiar did, and they want to prove to everyone - especially the Klingons and Federation - that they are not the Tal Shiar.
This whole thing was a test of the Republic by the Empire and Federation. While the Klingon Empire's rulers have few qualms or scruples, they are intensely interested in seeing how the Republic government handles this situation. Likewise, the Federation is doing their thing of smiling politely while watching the Romulans like hawks.
So they're playing this clean and by the books.
Sure. It's working out extremely well so far. :P
I see this as literally the most plausible explanation, but it would have been nice for Cryptic writers/bloggers to explain that as part of the story. It would have made the whole escape seem a lot less like idiot ball induced incompetence and more like Sela was a horribly frightening bad TRIBBLE who they were almost too afraid of...
Now if they actually address plausible reactions from the Empire and, especially, the Federations reaction to her escaping, that would go a long way to making up for other inadequacies.
While I do not have a Romulan or human example, I do have solid proof that mind meld resistance is not a theoretical, and it is at the very least within Cardassian potential. Whether or not their resistance technique is teachable to that extent to other species is unknown but it is on the table as a possibility.
Gul Dukat successfully resisted a mind meld on screen, against Sakonna. She got exactly nada from him.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
But that was a questionably-trained touch telepath. We have trained mindhounds who can defeat Undine psi-masters, and that's just KDF side!
Remans can brain-hack people and allow other people to mind-r*pe a victim from hundreds if not thousands of meters away. Betazoids can hold extended telepathic conversations while seducing Ferengi. A trained Vulcan can mind-hack an Undine with apparent ease (or maybe that's just because Tuvok's badass). There are at LEAST two other telepathic species in the Federation alone.
Yeah. Sela's discipline isn't going to hold up.