Psychologically, Devs, in any MMO, are inclined to listen to PvP-ers only. That's because Devs are technically knowledgeable, and so are decent PvP-ers. So, there's always a natural tendency to listen to the PvP community, exclusively almost, and to ignore the scrubs. It's, psychologically, a sort of 'peer-to-peer' deal between Dev and PvP-er.
So, to formulate it correctly, it's not so much PvP-ers per se the Devs choose to listen to, but 'other knowledgeable peope.' And the latter just happen to be PvP-ers (generally spoken).
A Dev, however, should always remain his professional objectivity, and realize it's that other 99% of the game he's really writing code for. If not, well, see major SS nerf.
Crying about nerfs - because the game doesn't need balance.
That must be why all people are happy that the Exploration Cruiser is underpowered compared to tac-heavier cruiser and no one ever complains about such imbalances.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It's hillarious that people still think "nerfs" are a result of the dwindling PvP population and that said population has any leverage over what the devs. decide to do with this game.
It's like we've time travelled back to 2011 or sth.
Ikr? I guess some habits die hard.
But there's something I gotta spoil...The Iconians are not the big bad of STO. No...they are merely a servitor race to the true evil:
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Seriously, blaming pvp at this point is like blaming a dead horse for beating itself.
For some reason, I ended up with the mixed visual along the lines of the older brother hitting the younger brother with his own hand...with somebody doing the same with a dead horse, telling it to stop beating itself. I'm not sure that's the kind of imagery I should have visualized...bit off kilter and all...made all the worse by the creepy giggle that I did accompanying the image.
It's hillarious that people still think "nerfs" are a result of the dwindling PvP population and that said population has any leverage over what the devs. decide to do with this game.
The tiny group of PvPers are responsible for all of the nerfs.
The small group of DPSers are responsible for increased difficulty.
These are the STO forums...and...that's how it is.
Yup, and I just ran out of kettle corn The SS nerfing was pretty easy to predict and now I'm glad I never bought the delta pack or invested in Intel ships.
I would never buy a pack that is the equivalent price of an entire game, but with only 1/1000th the content, special abilities or not.
We arrived at these figures after a LOT of internal testing. Parsing using different weapon types, comparing to multiple different firing modes, in many various different weapon configurations.
In all of the tests we performed, even after the above changes, Surgical Strikes reliably outperformed every combination of Weapon Type and Firing Mode we tried, once the player had a reasonable amount of +CritH and +CritD.
Those "reasonable amounts" by the way were 15% Crit Chance, and +200 Crit Severity. Values reasonably obtained by many players, and hilarious outstripped by our high-end performers.
So, despite the reductions contained in these Patch Notes, we feel the ability is still desirable by players properly geared to get the most out of it. We encourage anyone interested in how this affects their performance to copy over to Redshirt and try it out for themselves. Your feedback is welcome. (Parses of before/after performance would be even better!)
How do you blame a part of the community that doesn't play anymore? You gotta be really TRIBBLE to say that when I'm doing a Time Trial race in Driveclub.
Yes, yes I was a PvPer.
Can I go back to what I was doing now, or you need to to name and shame some more as well? It's not that I care, do it if you wish, I'll just go back to what I was doing.
For some reason, I ended up with the mixed visual along the lines of the older brother hitting the younger brother with his own hand...with somebody doing the same with a dead horse, telling it to stop beating itself. I'm not sure that's the kind of imagery I should have visualized...bit off kilter and all...made all the worse by the creepy giggle that I did accompanying the image.
The tiny group of PvPers are responsible for all of the nerfs.
The small group of DPSers are responsible for increased difficulty.
These are the STO forums...and...that's how it is.
Don't forget that Geko is responsible for n one ever getting anything nice, and spitefully refusing to pull the magic lever from "Game Sucks" to "Game Awesome".
Also, tacofangs is responsible for everything nice.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I'll have to check the logs, but I think it's still to strong.
As a PVPer I may advise another nerf! Sorry guys, may have to fill your space bar with some thing else:P:P
Hey man no problem
Beam overload is like the worst beam attack there is in PvE
Might as well get SS in the same category as BO
It appears that Boris wants beam users to only use BfaW in PvE using scimitars anyway
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Don't forget that Geko is responsible for n one ever getting anything nice, and spitefully refusing to pull the magic lever from "Game Sucks" to "Game Awesome".
Also, tacofangs is responsible for everything nice.
It's so simple, I don't even know why I don't get it lol
Its those guys over there in Eve/Tor/ED They did it... its there fault. qq qq qq
With the current level of intelligence shown around STO the last while its plain to see how Cryptic is able to continue doing what they do. lmao
Yes blame people that aren't here any more for the standard Cryptic upgrade cycle model. If you don't realize by now that Cryptic does the exact same thing before every major patch that release new ($) stuff then you deserve the fleecing you get playing along. We have had a few weeks of blogs about new trees skills and everything else NEW that is coming. Its not shocking that they are reducing the effective value of the old stuff... its what they always do.
Did SS need a fix... yes. Just because some people are willing to admit something isn't balanced right doesn't mean Cryptic cares what they say. Cause in the case of PvP clearly they don't. What they care about is people spending $. If you guys where super happy with your T6 Zen store ships and your SS... you where NOT going to buy new pilot ships, and heck you might not even roll a new toon or two like you are supposed to.
You only have yourselves to blame. You should have been on these forums complaining that the NPCs where still to hard and you where going to /uninstall. At that point Mr G might have thought "Good Good let the Zen flow though you" He may have left your old toys alone thinking you wouldn't be attached to them. Intels has hit the expiration date stamped on the carton. If you didn't know it was there, now you do. Understand that new Overpowered Pilot Command seat ship you buy in a few weeks will have a date on it as well... so no complaining in 6 months when that date rolls around, and don't blame those of us that could care less what Cryptic does. They have went well beyond the fool me once thing... I'll let you finish the thought there.
It appears that Boris wants beam users to only use BfaW in PvE using scimitars anyway
Na he simply does what he is told. He has been told to make the new skills more attractive. They don't want you using shims... they want you using the newest shiny stuff that you don't already own. lol
Surgical Strikes:
Resolved an issue that was causing some Disruptor Cannons to benefit less from this power than intended.
Plasma, Phaser, and Disruptor Quad Cannons now use correct FX and Icons when using this ability.
Accuracy and Critical Hit bonuses reduced:
Rank 1 = unchanged 20%
Rank 2 = reduced from +30% to +26%
Rank 3 = reduced from +40% to +32%
Damage multipliers reduced:
Rank 1 = base multiplier reduced by ~10%
Rank 2 = base multiplier reduced by ~16.8%
Rank 3 = base multiplier reduced by ~21.5%
I understand an accuracy reduction but a damage reduction as well?
You're most certainly welcome. Anything we can do to bring balance into the game we try to do... and this certainly needed adjusting.
This is the standard development cycle. New thing is OP, people point out it's OP for months, once they're a couple weeks away from releasing the next OP thing they "fix" it, next OP thing is released, repeat.
It's called 'bait and switch'.
The logical player looks at this cycle and decides not to purchase the new OP thing as soon as it's released and wait to see how bad the nerf is.
I am glad I never bought the intel ships and saved my cash for a different game.
I was going to try this out one day - I guess that day will be never :cool:
It's funny TO ME how he describes 200 crit severity as middle of the road.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
It's called 'bait and switch'.
The logical player looks at this cycle and decides not to purchase the new OP thing as soon as it's released and wait to see how bad the nerf is.
I am glad I never bought the intel ships and saved my cash for a different game.
And I will finally wise up and follow in your footsteps, and, from here on in, significantly postpone my purchases of anything that looks even remotely good. Sad as that is.
More than anything else I'm upset cause I knew this was coming and I don't mind balancing, and when it was brought up by Bort he said he will try to find a way to balance it against players and try to leave PvE alone. That's not what happened. I guess I should just learn to shut KY mouth ND jot get attached to anything ever.
Wow, took 3 whole minutes to get the expected comment!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I thought there was no PvP 'we' behind this, to get things nerfed!? Oops, busted!
Telling the truth and having Cryptic give a toss are two different things.
Yes SS is broken if you can't admit that your lying to yourself. It was broken on purpose you should know that by now.
No PvPers don't like what SS means for balance. That hardly means Cryptic cares what PvPers want. I am sure they like that you think they do... gives you someone to blame other then them and YOU. lol
Telling the truth and having Cryptic give a toss are two different things.
Yes SS is broken if you can't admit that your lying to yourself. It was broken on purpose you should know that by now.
No PvPers don't like what SS means for balance. That hardly means Cryptic cares what PvPers want. I am sure they like that you think they do... gives you someone to blame other then them and YOU. lol
Actually, I can agree with you on SS being 'broken' on purpose. Or, at least, that SS was made to be very good, so ppl would buy into Intel, only so they could nerf it later on, after all, when the new shiny toys needed to be sold.
People usually start talking about tinfoil hats when you say that; but, momumentally sad as I think that is, I'm beginning to believe the 'bait & switch' is truly part of their Plan.
reading the patch notes, he probably intended a split-but then he saw how high it was running against NPC's compared to powers at a similar level.
IOW; it was overperforming.
Funny metrics behind those findings, I'd say, as I have yet to see *any* DPS record being broken by folks spamming SS3. This has been one of my main arguments in the older SS3 thread too: if SS were really sooo OP, everyone in the DPS League would be running SS instead of BFAW. Yet they don't. And, so far, no one has ever been able to successfully refute that argument.
Metrics are, by their very nature, misleading, as the Dev looking at them tends to see what he wants to see. Bort should join a DPS League run one day, and see for himself what BFAW does in pratice, and what SS accomplishes compared to that.
Funny metrics behind those findings, I'd say, as I have yet to see *any* DPS record being broken by folks spamming SS3. This has been one of my main arguments in the older SS3 thread too: if SS were really sooo OP, everyone in the DPS League would be running SS instead of BFAW. Yet they don't. And, so far, no one has ever been able to successfully refute that argument.
Metrics are, by their very nature, misleading, as the Dev looking at them tends to see what he wants to see. Bort should join a DPS League run one day, and see for himself what BFAW does in pratice, and what SS accomplishes compared to that.
dps records are made with AOE powers, you're comparing apples and oranges. you need to compare SS3 with CRF3.
It just blows my mind that, there are no moderators present on the weekends, players like to take advantage of that, the this thread is still going and has not been closed yet. In better forums, this would be seen as a direct attack against a subset of the player population, and the OP would have rcv'd a warning and the thread closed....
On better forums...
Shame on you posters who have nothing better to do in your sad little lives than continue to attack others, continue petty arguing and flaming of other players. Shame.
Actually, I can agree with you on SS being 'broken' on purpose. Or, at least, that SS was made to be very good, so ppl would buy into Intel, only so they could nerf it later on, after all, when the new shiny toys needed to be sold.
People usually start talking about tinfoil hats when you say that; but, momumentally sad as I think that is, I'm beginning to believe the 'bait & switch' is truly part of their Plan.
It clearly can't be anything else.
For the first year or two we could be excused for simply thinking them incompetent. At this point it is clear that NO company in any field doing anything could have so many mistakes happen over and over and over with out correcting them.
At this point for it to continue... they are either the most incompetent company in the world (not just in the gaming industry) OR... things work the way they do completely on purpose. Meaning the constant mistakes aren't mistakes at all.
Either way you look at it its bad... they are either terrible at there jobs or evil. lol
Funny metrics behind those findings, I'd say, as I have yet to see *any* DPS record being broken by folks spamming SS3. This has been one of my main arguments in the older SS3 thread too: if SS were really sooo OP, everyone in the DPS League would be running SS instead of BFAW. Yet they don't. And, so far, no one has ever been able to successfully refute that argument.
Metrics are, by their very nature, misleading, as the Dev looking at them tends to see what he wants to see. Bort should join a DPS League run one day, and see for himself what BFAW does in pratice, and what SS accomplishes compared to that.
I can pull 40-60k DPS in a T6 warbird with SS3... the same ship with Rapid fire 3 instead will pull around 15k. So do the math on that one. People in the PvE cylinder size comparison channels use FAW because its easier. Push a button eat your doughnuts.
dps records are made with AOE powers, you're comparing apples and oranges. you need to compare SS3 with CRF3.
Why?! PvE is, by nature, primarily an AoE deal. Ultimately, whatever one uses, only one's sum-total DPS counts. And if you can do more DPS with BFAW3 than with SS3, or CRF even, then BFAW is simply the PvE winner.
All you're basically saying is that CRF3 sucks too, compared to BFAW. That's no reason to go nerf SS for. Rather, by any logical inference, it would be a reason to nerf BFAW. :P
It just blows my mind that, there are no moderators present on the weekends, players like to take advantage of that, the this thread is still going and has not been closed yet. In better forums, this would be seen as a direct attack against a subset of the player population, and the OP would have rcv'd a warning and the thread closed....
On better forums...
Shame on you posters who have nothing better to do in your sad little lives than continue to attack others, continue petty arguing and flaming of other players. Shame.
Why?! PvE is, by nature, primarily an AoE deal. Ultimately, whatever one uses, only one's sum-total DPS counts. And if you can do more DPS with BFAW3 than with SS3, or CRF even, then BFAW is simply the PvE winner.
All you're basically saying is that CRF3 sucks too, compared to BFAW. That's no reason to go nerf SS for. Rather, by any logical inference, it would be a reason to nerf BFAW. :P
Comments
I see what you did there, and here I go!
That must be why all people are happy that the Exploration Cruiser is underpowered compared to tac-heavier cruiser and no one ever complains about such imbalances.
Ikr? I guess some habits die hard.
But there's something I gotta spoil...The Iconians are not the big bad of STO. No...they are merely a servitor race to the true evil:
PvPers.
Amen! :P
For some reason, I ended up with the mixed visual along the lines of the older brother hitting the younger brother with his own hand...with somebody doing the same with a dead horse, telling it to stop beating itself. I'm not sure that's the kind of imagery I should have visualized...bit off kilter and all...made all the worse by the creepy giggle that I did accompanying the image.
The tiny group of PvPers are responsible for all of the nerfs.
The small group of DPSers are responsible for increased difficulty.
These are the STO forums...and...that's how it is.
I would never buy a pack that is the equivalent price of an entire game, but with only 1/1000th the content, special abilities or not.
So that's it. He didn't say pvpers made him do it. He just wanted to bring it inline with similar single target powers.
I'm sure most of you are going to ignore this and still blame the few PvPers left in the game because, well, it's the easy thing to do isn't it?
How do you blame a part of the community that doesn't play anymore? You gotta be really TRIBBLE to say that when I'm doing a Time Trial race in Driveclub.
Yes, yes I was a PvPer.
Can I go back to what I was doing now, or you need to to name and shame some more as well? It's not that I care, do it if you wish, I'll just go back to what I was doing.
As a PVPer I may advise another nerf! Sorry guys, may have to fill your space bar with some thing else:P:P
Also, tacofangs is responsible for everything nice.
Hey man no problem
Beam overload is like the worst beam attack there is in PvE
Might as well get SS in the same category as BO
It appears that Boris wants beam users to only use BfaW in PvE using scimitars anyway
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
It's so simple, I don't even know why I don't get it lol
With the current level of intelligence shown around STO the last while its plain to see how Cryptic is able to continue doing what they do. lmao
Yes blame people that aren't here any more for the standard Cryptic upgrade cycle model. If you don't realize by now that Cryptic does the exact same thing before every major patch that release new ($) stuff then you deserve the fleecing you get playing along. We have had a few weeks of blogs about new trees skills and everything else NEW that is coming. Its not shocking that they are reducing the effective value of the old stuff... its what they always do.
Did SS need a fix... yes. Just because some people are willing to admit something isn't balanced right doesn't mean Cryptic cares what they say. Cause in the case of PvP clearly they don't. What they care about is people spending $. If you guys where super happy with your T6 Zen store ships and your SS... you where NOT going to buy new pilot ships, and heck you might not even roll a new toon or two like you are supposed to.
You only have yourselves to blame. You should have been on these forums complaining that the NPCs where still to hard and you where going to /uninstall. At that point Mr G might have thought "Good Good let the Zen flow though you" He may have left your old toys alone thinking you wouldn't be attached to them. Intels has hit the expiration date stamped on the carton. If you didn't know it was there, now you do. Understand that new Overpowered Pilot Command seat ship you buy in a few weeks will have a date on it as well... so no complaining in 6 months when that date rolls around, and don't blame those of us that could care less what Cryptic does. They have went well beyond the fool me once thing... I'll let you finish the thought there.
Na he simply does what he is told. He has been told to make the new skills more attractive. They don't want you using shims... they want you using the newest shiny stuff that you don't already own. lol
You're most certainly welcome. Anything we can do to bring balance into the game we try to do... and this certainly needed adjusting.
I thought there was no PvP 'we' behind this, to get things nerfed!? Oops, busted!
It's called 'bait and switch'.
The logical player looks at this cycle and decides not to purchase the new OP thing as soon as it's released and wait to see how bad the nerf is.
I am glad I never bought the intel ships and saved my cash for a different game.
...#LLAP...
It's funny TO ME how he describes 200 crit severity as middle of the road.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
that's because it is...
And I will finally wise up and follow in your footsteps, and, from here on in, significantly postpone my purchases of anything that looks even remotely good. Sad as that is.
Wow, took 3 whole minutes to get the expected comment!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Telling the truth and having Cryptic give a toss are two different things.
Yes SS is broken if you can't admit that your lying to yourself. It was broken on purpose you should know that by now.
No PvPers don't like what SS means for balance. That hardly means Cryptic cares what PvPers want. I am sure they like that you think they do... gives you someone to blame other then them and YOU.
Actually, I can agree with you on SS being 'broken' on purpose. Or, at least, that SS was made to be very good, so ppl would buy into Intel, only so they could nerf it later on, after all, when the new shiny toys needed to be sold.
People usually start talking about tinfoil hats when you say that; but, momumentally sad as I think that is, I'm beginning to believe the 'bait & switch' is truly part of their Plan.
Funny metrics behind those findings, I'd say, as I have yet to see *any* DPS record being broken by folks spamming SS3. This has been one of my main arguments in the older SS3 thread too: if SS were really sooo OP, everyone in the DPS League would be running SS instead of BFAW. Yet they don't. And, so far, no one has ever been able to successfully refute that argument.
Metrics are, by their very nature, misleading, as the Dev looking at them tends to see what he wants to see. Bort should join a DPS League run one day, and see for himself what BFAW does in pratice, and what SS accomplishes compared to that.
dps records are made with AOE powers, you're comparing apples and oranges. you need to compare SS3 with CRF3.
On better forums...
Shame on you posters who have nothing better to do in your sad little lives than continue to attack others, continue petty arguing and flaming of other players. Shame.
It clearly can't be anything else.
For the first year or two we could be excused for simply thinking them incompetent. At this point it is clear that NO company in any field doing anything could have so many mistakes happen over and over and over with out correcting them.
At this point for it to continue... they are either the most incompetent company in the world (not just in the gaming industry) OR... things work the way they do completely on purpose. Meaning the constant mistakes aren't mistakes at all.
Either way you look at it its bad... they are either terrible at there jobs or evil. lol
I can pull 40-60k DPS in a T6 warbird with SS3... the same ship with Rapid fire 3 instead will pull around 15k. So do the math on that one. People in the PvE cylinder size comparison channels use FAW because its easier. Push a button eat your doughnuts.
Why?! PvE is, by nature, primarily an AoE deal. Ultimately, whatever one uses, only one's sum-total DPS counts. And if you can do more DPS with BFAW3 than with SS3, or CRF even, then BFAW is simply the PvE winner.
All you're basically saying is that CRF3 sucks too, compared to BFAW. That's no reason to go nerf SS for. Rather, by any logical inference, it would be a reason to nerf BFAW. :P
Who is under attack ?
/rollseyes
I had a whole paragraph written, then I realized what's really going on, so I'm just going to leave it at this.