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Say something positive about...Archer.
worffan101
Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
There has to be SOMEthing, right?
Alright, people. Say something positive about Jonathan Archer, the only moron to approach Kathryn Janeway in terms of blatant sentient rights abuses, hypocrisy, and generalized incompetence.
Alright, people. Say something positive about Jonathan Archer, the only moron to approach Kathryn Janeway in terms of blatant sentient rights abuses, hypocrisy, and generalized incompetence.
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He showed everybody who came after him what not to do.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Nope. Nothing.
...
OK, there is that.
Maybe...
Through sheer luck he saved Earth from a problem that may or may not have been caused by his own incompetence?
He may not have been perfect, but no one is. After all, when he took command of Enterprise... no one knew what to expect. Yes he made mistakes, but they were human mistakes. Not Vulcan. Without Archer... Starfleet would have been grounded for another 100 years thanks to the Vulcans, which means no Kirk on the USS Enterprise... which might have been about as advanced as an NX class and not a Constitution class.
He was the first Captain to head out beyond known space at the time.
So he screwed up a few times, name one explorer that hasn't.
I like Captain Archer, I enjoyed the show and still do.
I like TOS also, despite shows like "Spock's Brain".
I don't blame the Characters for what the Writers made them do.
Overall, they got it pretty right.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Also... Writers are the ones to blame, not the characters themselves.
Archer is a "trained diplomat" who can't understand why his dog peeing on a sacred tree might derail a negotiation, and then threatens to do that himself to spite his opposite number.
Janeway was psychotic. Archer is just a dumbass.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
...and you just proved my point.
The Writers were idiots, not the Character.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Sure you don't want to call him out for abetting genocide?
...this is a character who never showed anything resembling competence.
"Unexpected"--shows no concern that an officer was r*ped by the aliens he was assisting and is now suffering from an extremely dangerous pregnancy.
"Dear Doctor"--abets and applauds genocide.
"Fight or Flight"--shows abject command incompetence by just sort of puttering around and ordering people to generally do stuff and nearly gets his people killed horribly.
"The Andorian Incident"--sides with the people who just tortured him and beat him up over his allies. Also doesn't even order passive scans of the area before waltzing into the P'Jem sanctuary because reasons. And needs lessons from T'Pol in appropriate behavior in a place of worship (something most of us learn before we can walk) and calls that HARD.
"Shadows of P'Jem"--Spends most of the time he's tied up with his XO verbally abusing her, then motorboats her because Berman and Braga.
"A Night In Sickbay"--this one speaks for itself.
I could go on--"Fortunate Son" and "Silent Enemy", the Xindi arc in general--but I'm bored.
Archer's demonstrably a fool at best and a nut job at worst.
No, but I am willing to chalk that up to his aforementioned stupidity. At least he's consistently portrayed as an idiot.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
On the other paw, I can't fault him for listening to the Andorians at P'jem - he's already had reasons to think Vulcans don't always tell the truth, despite their protestations of not lying. And it turned out the Andorians were right, and the Vulcans were lying; it was just that not all Vulcans, not even all those at the monastery, were aware of what was going on.
Archer was human, with all that implies, and started off with a chip on his shoulder regarding Vulcans (because of how they tried to hold back his father's work on faster warp drives). He should never have been placed in command, but he was, and he did the best he could with what he had to work with. And he did help figure out why the Prime Directive was a good idea, although the TOS episode "Patterns of Force" gave an even better demonstration, IMO.
Archer SAVED the guy's LIFE. And as far as I know he didn't have to desecrate anything or punch any Vulcans to pull it off.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
- His cholesterol number was low.
- He liked dogs. A lot.
- Ummm...That's all I got. Sorry.
Edit: Forgot a couple.
- He had his Vulcan under control.
- He wasn't Janeway.
All done! :P
Voyager on the other hand ... that was the only star trek show where I legitimately disliked at least half the crew. Tuvok, Kes, and Harry were all boring, Chekotay's mysticism had no place in Trek and he was also boring, and Janeway's characterization was inconsistent. That leaves five out of ten characters that i actually really liked.
Back to the NX crew though, my absolute favorite would have to be mirror Hoshi.
My character Tsin'xing
Notice how all these comments of hate come from the first 2 seasons? Once Coto came onboard, I hear no critcisms from those episodes.
Positive stuff about Archer:
He forced Trip to drink the water in that desert, regardless of how dehydrated Archer was.
He willingly blew himself out of an airlock to secure the safety and quarantine of Cold Station 12 and all those within.
He went with what he felt was morally right, not what was diplomatically right (P'Jem and it's fallout comes to mind here. And the release of all those Suliban prisoners in that camp). Granted the exception to this was during the Xindi arc, but the man was under extreme stress in completely unfair and whacked out situations. And even when he did have to go all dark side, he still tried to give some fairness. He transported food and supplies to that ship he stole the coil from, and refused to target their weapons, despite the damage to Enterprise.
He got a quardrant on the brink of war to the negotiating table and was directly responsible for forming the Coalition, which in turn directly became the Federation.
He was an honest to God human character, with flaws and passions.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Phrasing, BOOM!
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
Natural order? Natural order????? You DARE to call that perversion of science natural order???
News flash, Berman and Braga: Evolution doesn't work that way! There is no such thing as "natural" evolution! Evolution is simply the change in a population in response to environmental stress to favor reproductive viability. There is no conceivable way to make Phlox and Archer's actions logical or justifiable.
As for the congenitor...that's a society that makes a policy of abusing and oppressing a minority of the species. Trip didn't just have every right to teach the congenitor to think for xirself, he had a moral OBLIGATION to do so.
So our morals override another planets Completely Different Society's morals because...???
That's the entire ambiguous question of the episode... What gives us the right to do so?
Why are ours superior to another Society's, who have been functioning just fine for many, many generations...?
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
And things go wrong with DNA all the time. Mutations occur. People are colour blind. They have different eye colours. They get asthma. They get cancer. They are born with defects. That's what's happened, but on a global scale.
And Trip had a moral obligation? Ok. Yeah. Sure. I can see that, from a human viewpoint. But look what happened. The Cogenitor wasn't properly climatised. Wasn't able to function with this new set of alien thinking, and commited suicide. That was some quality results from obligations right there.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Well there was that one time....no he messed that up
OH but then he....no he really pizzeled those people off
BUT then there was that...nope he messed that one aswell
Well i did like quantumn leap if that counts
You really don't get it.
In "Dear Doctor", there is no realistic way at all for an entire species to start dying of a genetic disease. Not unless its population is 1.
The right thing to do would have been to either enforce equal rights or relocate the Menk to another planet. There is simply no realistic way for an entire species to suddenly start dying of a genetic disease; worse, Phlox implies that this already preposterous situation is somehow NATURAL.
Thereby showing unequivocally that neither Berman nor Braga has ever taken freshman Biology.
As for "Congenitor": The fault lies unequivocally with the alien society for its horrific, oppressive treatment of congenitors. I blame nurture (or lack thereof) over nature.
So because Southern landowners had been owning blacks as slaves for many, many generations and their society functioned basically just fine until the Civil War (which wasn't directly about slavery), the North had no right to impose abolition on them with the Thirteenth Amendment?
Because that's your argument applied to the real world. The fact that Trip failed does not make his actions any less right.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Anyway, good things about Archer.
He liked Water Polo.
He loved his pet dog.
He was the one person solely responsible for creating the Federation. Did I mention that? Cos that is sort of a big deal that is very positive.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Viruses can cause genetic damage and give the next generation traits the current one doesn't. In this case it would seem that the virus WAS natural, and simply behaving in unusual ways. But Phlox said the problem was a part of Valakian DNA itself and NOT caused by an actual illness, so, meh. Of course, he could be wrong.... Retcons happen. Especially to stupid ideas. this one could easily be patched by saying the virus that caused the genetic damage was extinct for centuries.
Either way.... how is this MORE preposterous than the pseudo-science from other episodes? There's a fine line between influencing a civilization and forcing it on them. Trip's actions were about as far as you could go without starting a war.
also... *points at ancient Greeks* Slavery does not always equate to treating other people like dogs.... Some cultures would actually execute a slave owner who killed one of their slaves.
My character Tsin'xing