And the worst thing is this stupid cooldown.
I can understand that cryptic does not want that players grind the rewards from a mission every 5mins.... but not allowing players to have a 2nd try after failing a mission is idiotic. It is frustrating... and it prevents new players from learning how the mission is played correctly.
I agree with this, although I see the cooldowns as a way to make people do things they may not want to otherwise do. I still don't like them.
But can she kill three generators and a transformer before the gravity well gives out? That's the million dollar question.
By herself? Maybe. Untested. Might be able to use my repulsors until GW cooldown. Would be tricky solo. If you're asking how she fares in a team setting with ISA, the answer is 100% so far.
The point of my post is that I enjoy the game much more this way. Brings a smile to me weary face. Since the doping removal + defense rebuild I've given up about half my dps from 30k to around 15 and am beginning to enjoy the game again.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
One thing I think we should all make peace with is that STF's are not designed for casual players. This is one of the reasons I don't do them. Despite all my time playing and all of the time I've spent on the forums, I am still only a casual player. My wife would shake her head in disbelief at that statement, but it's true.
Everybody who does what these forums would consider decent DPS and what these forums would consider effective builds are people who spend a lot of time studying STO and tinkering with builds. Or copy-paste a build from someone else who does.
It's not trolling for those casual players to come in here and complain about game difficulty in an STF. There's a knowledge gap that they simply did not realize existed.
It's okay to try to educate them. It's not okay to belittle them.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Regarding needing to do advanced Borg STF's to get the gear needed to do them... Which gear?
Unless you're really stuck on getting the 2x Borg set bonus (which while being very nice, it isn't remotely required), there's nothing that worthwhile to get that needs Borg Neural Processors. The only items that are a must have from Omega reputation are the Kinetic Cutting Beam and Borg console, which don't need Borg Neural Processors anyway.
Shields? One of the best shields in the game are the Elite Fleet Shields (specifically the resilient fleet shields Res .
Nukara shields and deflector? Quite tanky, a small buff to damage and incredibly easy to earn through the crystalline entity.
No, I wouldn't expect a group doing that much to fail...unless it was mainly one person doing that damage and they were basically trolling the group. But to be honest, I wouldn't expect an ISA public pug to be doing that much to begin with, averaging 10-12k per player...at first thought, but I looked and things actually look better than they have.
Here are the last 13 (it's Friday the 13th)...
44344 (12142 - 2104)
77824 (31866 - 2114) (an anomaly, that 31k guy did 41%)
42622 (14843 - 2329)
36851 (10767 - 1947)
50130 (15223 - 3480)
55406 (15705 - 4909)
43048 (12380 - 942) (the 942 guy was active 14s out of 862)
49427 (27386 - 2839) (an anomaly, that 27k guy did 55%)
46302 (15407 - 4128)
90376 (38120 - 1353) (an anomaly, that 38k guy did 42%)
40697 (14815 - 2120)
86665 (30826 - 7258) (another type of anomaly, the 30k guy did 35% and the lowest was 7258, eh?)
42080 (12778 - 2200)
That 7258 guy...five of them...likely at least one person carrying a GW...and it might be a long run that puts some folks off, but they should not only avoid the fail but even score the Optional.
The 2104, 2114, 2329, 1947, and 3840 guys from those last five...what's their run going to look like?
Five folks doing 6-8k is a far cry from the potential that folks can manage in the game. That's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about content requirements vs. potential...and it's only about 1-2k DPS more than it was for ISE.
Saying that the new player that's doing 1-3k might not be ready for Advanced...it is what it is...five folks doing that is going to be a failure, yeah? Getting them from 1-3k to 6-8k isn't anything along the lines of trying to get them from 1-3k to 60-80k...Hell, even 20-30k.
Just to try to make that clearer, for where I'm coming from...Hell, even if those 1-3k folks got up to 4-5k; there are pretty good odds that there might be somebody in the 8-10-12k range that could cover the difference. There would still be that RNG risk of having five folks doing 4-5k and the group running into problems, but the way folks have been improving (used to be far more 30-40k groups than 40-50k) there's some room there.
Sure, some folks out there might want everybody doing 10k, 15k, 20k or more. I'm not one of them...I'm fingers crossed that folks will be in that 4-5k, 5-6k, 7k...range...when they're new to Advanced. Cause it's one thing to be new to Advanced and another to be new to the game and trying to do Advanced.
One thing I think we should all make peace with is that STF's are not designed for casual players.
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
If only there was a difficulty level just for elite players so they could challenge themselves while letting the rest of us continue to get our BNPs in space.
I'm not sure what you'd call it or if the game could handle a third difficulty.
Though I suppose the ones who couldn't hack the new difficulty would want the old one cranked up just below their skill level so they could still sustain themselves on the tears of the casuals while feeling elite.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
That kind of struck me as odd.
Say I was running a fleet that was open to new/newer players, eh?
I'd probably have those folks that would team up with those new/newer players just in teamed missions/episodes...going through some of the fundamentals and just easing them into things there.
Then it would be a case of moving on to Normal queues, building upon the foundation - explaining how things go in the Normal - and better preparing the players. When it started to get to the point of moving on to Advanced, it would be a case of explaining some of the differences.
Then it would be a case of moving on to the Advanced queues, once again building upon that foundation. At some point, if they showed a continuing desire - then things would get more in depth and would start preparing them for Elite queues.
I wouldn't think of it as "slumming"...
...and well, folks running Elite queues in T2 boats tells me there is a problem.
Course, that's not to say a player has to join a fleet to learn that stuff. There are all sorts of resources for folks available out there...they could take advantage of those, asking any questions for stuff they're not clear on or if they can't quite decide on something.
The requirements for the STFs are still very casual. Sure, they're not barely have a pulse casual, but they're by no means anywhere near anything that could be considered hardcore in the least.
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
The Dev team has ALWAYS maintained that the STF's are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and reward teamwork, skill, and good builds. Advanced/Elite even moreso.
Power creep along with gimped NPC's may have let casual players get away with doing STF's in a casual way at times before, but that's not necessarily true anymore. It's learn or die, and failing to spend that time to learn the deeper knowledge means you're not only affecting yourself you're affecting the success of the entire team.
I have NOT put in the effort to learn buildcraft. I've picked up a lot from the forums over the years and I do fine in regular PvE, but I don't kid myself. I'm a casual player. I'm not hardcore and I never will be... I have a family that needs more attention from me than STO does and I'm not willing to trade that in for pushing my DPS to the next level.
I could do a copy-paste build. But I don't want to. I'd rather tinker with things my own way and at my own pace. I'm sure most of you would laugh at my builds, too. I slot the things that seem to make sense to me, fly whatever the hell I feel like flying that day, and let it go at that.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
That's rather disingenuous, as it ignores the history of STO STFs in favor of looking at just one section of time, as well as ignores the particulars of that section.
The first(?) iteration of STFs started as really intimidating hour long ground/space things.
Then they got split because that kind of time investment is way too hardcore. This second iteration was still not "casual friendly" either. In fact, as far as I know, STFs were not changed at all from this second iteration until DR.
During this period of time, very very few ships/players had above 5k DPS. eSTFs were still very intimidating - a PUG ISE was likely to "fail" if people didn't follow the 10% method, usually resulting in a desperate struggle to take out waves of nanite spheres and trying to do more damage to the transformers than the nanites would heal each wave. One such (ultimate successful) attempt took an hour.
Look at the longest running active thread(?) on the boards: Post your worst STF experience. It dates back to March 2012, during this segment of time. Nobody complaining were doing 10k DPS or anything like that - it was about tactics, teamwork, knowledge. It was not "casual friendly". This was when I joined PESTF along with ever increasing numbers of people who knew how to do eSTFs, and was fed up with being dragged down by the "casuals" who refused to learn.
The time period you're talking about is not the second iteration - it was when power creep resulted in the old methods no longer being necessary. The STFs did not become "casual friendly", power creep made it so that the good players could carry the weaker ones, so it was no longer necessary to go to private queues.
eSTFs were never "casual friendly". There was just a period of time where the highly competent were "casual friendly" because those "casuals" would make no appreciable impact on the success or failure of the eSTF. Now that your teammates are important again, a large section of the highly competent players are abandoning public queues so they don't waste their time failing to carry "casuals".
(Though I will note the last time I ran ISA it was in a PUG, of which 4 did 20k-28k and one did 5k, and we completed it handily.)
P.S.: The reason I keep putting "casual" in quotation marks is because using it synonymously with "ineffective", "militantly ignorant", or "incompetent" is frankly offensive. "Casual" is a play style and time investment, not a measure of competence. A "casual" Team Fortress player may not know the tricks of a class or a map, but could be an excellent shot with amazing reflexes and be a valued member of a team.
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
One thing I think we should all make peace with is that STF's are not designed for casual players. This is one of the reasons I don't do them. Despite all my time playing and all of the time I've spent on the forums, I am still only a casual player. My wife would shake her head in disbelief at that statement, but it's true.
They are for casuals, for casuals that read at least. I dont exactly know what hinders you with implementing what you read, as it cant be money, dilithium, ec or similar, as all this is not needed for 10k and CC. Even cooky-cutter-builds arent needed. I think the problem isnt you being a causal, its just that you, well, stop yourself from being able to complete them. "I am a casual" is just a very lazy, and very wrong, excuse.
But well, as long as you arent a hindrance to your team, I guess there isnt any point arguing about it. But I strongly dislike misinformation.
The requirements for the STFs are still very casual. Sure, they're not barely have a pulse casual, but they're by no means anywhere near anything that could be considered hardcore in the least.
The time period you're talking about is not the second iteration - it was when power creep resulted in the old methods no longer being necessary. The STFs did not become "casual friendly", power creep made it so that the good players could carry the weaker ones, so it was no longer necessary to go to private queues.
Indeed. And the best part is: The weaker ones could flame on the forums how the evil Carrier (as in players that carried them) would ruin the game. It was a win-win-win-situation.
Now we carriers still win, and the weaker ones still fail to see the bigger picture.
I remember early on. STFs used to be filled with chatter.
ISE was pop the patrol, go high on the left cube. Then call out 10%, wait for everyone, someone called go. Usually the guy sitting in front of the gate with a couple of GWs.
Then the Scimitars showed up and it became just shoot what the Scimitar misses.
Then the new consoles and it was just HAHA! blow the TRIBBLE out of everything. Don't bother coordinating, you can solo it if need be. I was guilty of that with my A2B build. Didn't even pay attention to the other guys. I knew I could blow all 4 generators and the transformer solo before the nanites made it, if the team decided to shoot the pretty round things instead.
The only annoyance was if someone went right at the start and couldn't solo that side.
So now advanced is back to being hard. Good. They should be.
If only there was a difficulty level just for elite players so they could challenge themselves while letting the rest of us continue to get our BNPs in space.
If there was an Elite difficulty then it would have to give increased rewards for the increased effort.
Then the Bad Players would queue for that instead, and whine about how hard it is.
If there was an Elite difficulty then it would have to give increased rewards for the increased effort.
Then the Bad Players would queue for that instead, and whine about how hard it is.
If it's reward by effort the guys going through with a 2k average per member are putting in more effort then the 100k guys roflstomping it in .3 seconds.
Or you know, the BNPs and such could be down in the difficulties that can be pugged, pugged pugged, no super special channel with secret handshake pugged, to keep them out of the higher difficulties.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Or you know, the BNPs and such could be down in the difficulties that can be pugged, pugged pugged, no super special channel with secret handshake pugged, to keep them out of the higher difficulties.
BNPs can be aquired in defera, which runs on normal difficulty...
And the current advanced can be pugged.
The Dev team has ALWAYS maintained that the STF's are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and reward teamwork, skill, and good builds. Advanced/Elite even moreso.
Power creep along with gimped NPC's may have let casual players get away with doing STF's in a casual way at times before, but that's not necessarily true anymore. It's learn or die, and failing to spend that time to learn the deeper knowledge means you're not only affecting yourself you're affecting the success of the entire team.
I have NOT put in the effort to learn buildcraft. I've picked up a lot from the forums over the years and I do fine in regular PvE, but I don't kid myself. I'm a casual player. I'm not hardcore and I never will be... I have a family that needs more attention from me than STO does and I'm not willing to trade that in for pushing my DPS to the next level.
I could do a copy-paste build. But I don't want to. I'd rather tinker with things my own way and at my own pace. I'm sure most of you would laugh at my builds, too. I slot the things that seem to make sense to me, fly whatever the hell I feel like flying that day, and let it go at that.
This is what I flew for my last ISA. It's not what I flew for the ISA before. What I flew before wasn't what I flew before that. What I flew...etc, etc, etc. I just toss things on that might be fun. If they hadn't broken the Ferengi Rapid with the last patch, I'd still be running that (I think it looks cool paired with the Vaad Polarons - who cares that the proc is useless against unshielded targets or when the facing is down, eh?)...
Note: This is not a build recommendation for anybody thinking that it might be. I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of folks that would alternate between laughing at this and /facepalming at it.
...cause those three are on all my builds (Phantom, Hazari, Benthan, Samsar, Sarr Theln, Apex, Fleet Nebula, D'Kyr, Chel Grett, Plesh Brek, and APU) - and - well, it seemed worth it to do it for them.
The Core's VR14, cause I was looking at doing UR14 for [AMP] with it - but I guess I forgot, lol.
The build before that...
VR12 E-Bio Torp, R13 Elachi Crescent Cannon, 2x VR11 [Acc]x2 Polarized Disruptor DHCs
VR12 Heavy Bio Disruptor Turret, 2x VR11 [Acc]x2[CrtD] Nanite Disruptor Turrets
VR12 AMACO Deflector/Engine, UR12 Spire Core
UR13 Locator [+Dis], VR13 Disruptor Induction Coil
Switch the Bio-Neural Gel Packs for a G14 Bioneural Infusion Circuits.
Everything else the same. That build actually does somewhat better than the one I'm flying right now even with the worse weapons...has the 2pc Silent Enemy and 2pc Fluidic Ordnance. But I really dig the visual FX of the Vaadwaur Polarons...so wheeeeee!
I could hop in the Sarr Theln with 2pc Nukara, Fluidic Deflector, MACO shields, Spire Core w/ AMP, with some CrtD/Pen AP Arrays, Elite Scorps and Swarmers to do 19-22k DPS...
...but I like putzing around in whatever doing 8-12k.
I'm flying around in the Delta Quadrant with my Delta CBC, 3pc Delta (I went to look at doing the Delta Shields while I was putting that build in STOAcademy and saw that I already had - just hadn't collected them - had completely forgotten that I had slotted that project), with my Delta Flyers, and going pew pew with my Vaad Polarons.
I was an advocate for average DPS, mediocre builds, but having fun before DR...that hasn't changed with DR.
Sure, the "Wizards" can put out videos that kind of come off looking like magic...I put out a video with me flying around in circles and getting stuck in a Transformer.
Isn't it only the hard missions, not the normal ones, that can award them?
From the patchnotes:
Borg Neural Processors have been added as a once per day reward to the following missions on the Defera Invasion Zone:
Modus Operandi
Getting to the Bottom of Things
Uninvited Guests
Counter Offensive
Easy, "hard", "hard", "hard". But "hard" on defera doesnt really mean hard, it means you need three players. The mission itself could be done bei BOs alone, if they were allowed.
They are for casuals, for casuals that read at least. I dont exactly know what hinders you with implementing what you read, as it cant be money, dilithium, ec or similar, as all this is not needed for 10k and CC. Even cooky-cutter-builds arent needed. I think the problem isnt you being a causal, its just that you, well, stop yourself from being able to complete them. "I am a casual" is just a very lazy, and very wrong, excuse.
But well, as long as you arent a hindrance to your team, I guess there isnt any point arguing about it. But I strongly dislike misinformation.
There you go. You imply that I can't read or that I'm just lazy. If not wanting to take the time to parse my DPS is lazy, I'll wear that label gladly. I can take it. Just don't slap that label on every new or casual player that comes through here.
DR upset the apple cart and people who used to be able to pull off eSTF's can't complete Advanced (see, I do read) -- But people still don't want to do Normals because they can't earn BNP's that way. Or am I misinformed and Normal queues pop on a regular basis? I'll allow that could be true.
The OP came in to this thread thinking he knew what he was doing and found out the hard way that he didn't know a lot of the things that some of you take for granted. He was absolutely right that something changed, he just didn't understand why. Some people jumped on him for trolling and being ignorant, despite a clear indication that he was willing to learn when someone took the time to inform him and point him in the right direction.
That is not conducive to bringing new players into the community, or creating a desire to bother with STF's.
Casual players, like me, just want to log on and start playing. We don't necessarily want to use the skill planner and post a build for critique ... just about the first thing people told him to do. You're not wrong, but that's going beyond casual. Casual players want quick fixes so they can log in and play... only there are not a lot of quick fixes in STO.
I know enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, except I've never outgrown my love for gimmick consoles.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Easy, "hard", "hard", "hard". But "hard" on defera doesnt really mean hard, it means you need three players. The mission itself could be done bei BOs alone, if they were allowed.
I believe the easy one is incorrectly in the patch notes.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
V, I would never consider labeling you as a casual player.
Choosing to do stuff that other people "know better" than to do, doesn't mean you haven't put in the time to understand what you're doing.
Heck, you do all that math that makes me cringe. From where I'm sitting in the cheap seats, you're a battle-scarred career veteran.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Casual players, like me, just want to log on and start playing. We don't necessarily want to use the skill planner and post a build for critique ... just about the first thing people told him to do. You're not wrong, but that's going beyond casual. Casual players want quick fixes so they can log in and play... only there are not a lot of quick fixes in STO.
See, the thing is, the casual player can't have it both ways: be casual AND play Advanced STF's. That's like saying "I didn't go to college, but I want the jobs college people are getting anyway." It is inherently unreasonable -- not being casual, mind you, but being casual AND wanting access to an area of the game only more experienced players can handle.
And you can't help someone until you know what's wrong. Skill planner is a good first step, because just hearing the casual player talk about his "monster fleet patrol escort refit" isn't really doing it, Q.E.D.
Skill tree is often also an area that the casual player can (drastically) improve on. Also, Q.E.D.
I understand frustration. But at some point the casual player will face a choice: either improve his game, or remain at his current level. Both are valid options; but you can't really choose the latter, and then rant you "can never think of enough ways to say how much I hate Cryptic." when you fail at Advanced STF's.
I understand frustration. But at some point the casual player will face a choice: either improve his game, or remain at his current level. Both are valid options; but you can't really choose the latter, and then rant you "can never think of enough ways to say how much I hate Cryptic." when you fail at Advanced STF's.
And thus one reason why I said STF's aren't designed for casual players. I totally agree with everything you said in that post.
But you do understand that a casual player who doesn't understand why and how he needs to improve his game might get frustrated enough to rant when content he could do before is suddenly too hard?
What he doesn't realize is, it's not exactly the same content anymore and the level of difficulty is intentional.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
There you go. You imply that I can't read or that I'm just lazy. If not wanting to take the time to parse my DPS is lazy, I'll wear that label gladly. I can take it. Just don't slap that label on every new or casual player that comes through here.
Actually, in your case I would rather say you refuse to take advice. Its not about copying things, its basically what you already said: You just do your own thing disregarding anything written in the forum, if it doesnt conform with what you were to do in the first place. Now since you stated you dont play anything than normal, I doubt you are an hindrance for your team. Not because I want to sooth relations to you, but simply because I can only imagine "failing" normal by trolling. Still, as far as teamplay goes, I always ensure that I add to the team; others might not feel the same need, but well, opinions, moral and ethics are not set in stone and vary from time to time and person to person.
But, one thing you did indeed not read: I stated multiple times (though not in the answers to your posts) that CC is the keystone to not failing advanced. DPS makes it easier, faster, but fundamentally CC is the single thing between failing and not failing for pugs.
The OP came in to this thread thinking he knew what he was doing and found out the hard way that he didn't know a lot of the things that some of you take for granted. He was absolutely right that something changed, he just didn't understand why. Some people jumped on him for trolling and being ignorant, despite a clear indication that he was willing to learn when someone took the time to inform him and point him in the right direction.
That is not conducive to bringing new players into the community, or creating a desire to bother with STF's.
The OP pretty much disqualified himself with his tone and demeanor. One couldnt be sure that the OP himself wasnt trolling, especially after he showed his build and it was obvious that the change leading to his downfall wasnt a recent one.
If he had written a OP like one would do with the slightest idea of etticete, this thread would have been over in less than two pages and the OP would have gotten nice answes only.
Casual players, like me, just want to log on and start playing. We don't necessarily want to use the skill planner and post a build for critique ... just about the first thing people told him to do. You're not wrong, but that's going beyond casual. Casual players want quick fixes so they can log in and play... only there are not a lot of quick fixes in STO.
Obviously there shouldnt be any problem with staying in normal, eh? You think like that, and thats admirable compared to all those "casuals" (which is the wrong term if you ask me, being casual and being "competetive" isnt mutually exclusive) wanting to be able to complete advanced by either not being able to fail, or nerfing it to the points were a single individual can carry them easily (though tbh we are already at that point).
DR upset the apple cart and people who used to be able to pull off eSTF's can't complete Advanced
Were they able to pull off eSTFs or was it simply easier to find someone in the pug who could carry them?
If they were able to pull of eSTFs alone, then they wouldnt have had any problems to adjust to aSTFs. But of course the ones who where being carried would have had problems, because obviously most carriers belong to the dps-chans, due to DR the chans went far more lively (and played more within, as it simple was faster and less risky), because the ones who before could barely (barely!) carry a pug, werent able to do it now (which isnt as simply as needing more dps, but more along the lines of "focusing fire and planning ahead", which werent needed before and is even in the dpschans not that widespread as one would hope, though that is now whining on high niveau).
Another thing that non-dps-ers do (like you did actually) is one-dimensional thinking. Not knowing mechanics, not knowing about dps and not doing dps, but having the mindset of dps (as the sole tool to anything). That can only do one thing: Fail. Like they said in the Anime Kingdom: The weak have to find other ways to fight than the strong ones. In terms of the one-dimensional thinking that simply means: Think outside the box...
P.S.: The fun thing about most players 'preferences' in ship-builds ("Casuals", rp etc), if they would simply come forth, say "I have this. I am willing to spend that. And I want this (gear abilities) on my ship. What can you tell me to get higher performance within these constrains?", they would most likely be able to do more dps and additional features (tank, heal, cc, mix) than needed for advanced...
But you do understand that a casual player who doesn't understand why and how he needs to improve his game might get frustrated enough to rant when content he could do before is suddenly too hard?
I *do* agree on that. And you have a good point: frustration isn't always reasonable per se, but merely just that, the voicing of frustration.
What he doesn't realize is, it's not exactly the same content anymore and the level of difficulty is intentional.
Also agreed.
Come to think of it, the casual player doesn't necessarily *want* to be in an Advanced, but may feel ''forced' doing so, because he needs BNP's (and, like me, he may not do ground). I think it would have been better if Cryptic rewarded like 1 BNP for Normals, and 2 for Advanced, or some such. That might stop a lot of casual players from trying their hand at Advanceds -- against their better judgements -- because they feel they have no real choice.
I also think it's kind of important to read between the lines to what the real complaint is.
It's not so much that the STF's got harder, although they did.
The real issue is that people want the gear that they need BNP's for, and this harder content is (almost) the only way to get BNP's.
This too, is by design.
I agree that the expectation that one should be able to earn BNP's on less difficult content is unreasonable. But unless one has been reading the forums long enough, they don't realize that their expectation is unreasonable.
Me, I don't want to play the harder content and I have zero expectation that I will earn enough BNP's to trick out my ship with all the Omega gear. I'm okay with that. My expectations are fully aligned.
I'm saying exactly what meimeitoo said, but in a different way. We have to start with aligning people's expectations with reality so they can make informed choices. Like being casual and living without those shinies, or improving your game enough to do ASTF's and getting the shinies as fast as you can.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Another thing that non-dps-ers do (like you did actually) is one-dimensional thinking. Not knowing mechanics, not knowing about dps and not doing dps, but having the mindset of dps (as the sole tool to anything). That can only do one thing: Fail. Like they said in the Anime Kingdom: The weak have to find other ways to fight than the strong ones. In terms of the one-dimensional thinking that simply means: Think outside the box...
All you're proving is that you don't understand me and you think that you do. I mention DPS as a measure because, frankly, that's the measure that many people here on the forums use. I am well aware it's not the sole consideration.
Who is guilty of one dimensional thinking? The person who doesn't know he's in the box, or the one who put him there?
The correct answer is both. I, at least, am aware of the box I've put myself in and can choose to step out of it whenever I want. I don't put other people in boxes any more than I can help it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I also think it's kind of important to read between the lines to what the real complaint is.
It's not so much that the STF's got harder, although they did.
The real issue is that people want the gear that they need BNP's for, and this harder content is (almost) the only way to get BNP's.
This too, is by design.
This comes down to a major issue with current PvE queues - a lack of cost/reward, and a poorly (relatively) balanced cost/reward.
Me? I'll admit it, I'm far from casual. I go into advanced and elite queues with an expectation of success, and I'm rarely wrong. But Elite queues are frankly unrewarding compared to their advanced counterparts, and compared to what's required to progress in this game as a whole, all of the queues are. Great, I have BNP's. I have 22k omega marks. But what I need isn't potential sources of unrefined dilithium, it's crafting mats to make the literally thousands of upgrade kits that pushing a full ship's worth of gear to MK XIV or MK XIV Epic requires. What I need is xp to get specialization points. And yet Advanced and Elite queues remain the best source of RnD materials. So... I can either gear up more alts for Advanced and Elite queues, or I can acquire hundreds of thousands of potential unrefined dilithium.
Once you've got the gear, one Elite queue rewards you more dil than the cost of the upgrades you can make from it's mats box (assuming you convert marks/BNP's/etc to dil). I would rather have it the other way around, imo - and I don't mean nerf dil, I mean vastly increase RnD supply.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Comments
I agree with this, although I see the cooldowns as a way to make people do things they may not want to otherwise do. I still don't like them.
By herself? Maybe. Untested. Might be able to use my repulsors until GW cooldown. Would be tricky solo. If you're asking how she fares in a team setting with ISA, the answer is 100% so far.
The point of my post is that I enjoy the game much more this way. Brings a smile to me weary face. Since the doping removal + defense rebuild I've given up about half my dps from 30k to around 15 and am beginning to enjoy the game again.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Everybody who does what these forums would consider decent DPS and what these forums would consider effective builds are people who spend a lot of time studying STO and tinkering with builds. Or copy-paste a build from someone else who does.
It's not trolling for those casual players to come in here and complain about game difficulty in an STF. There's a knowledge gap that they simply did not realize existed.
It's okay to try to educate them. It's not okay to belittle them.
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Unless you're really stuck on getting the 2x Borg set bonus (which while being very nice, it isn't remotely required), there's nothing that worthwhile to get that needs Borg Neural Processors. The only items that are a must have from Omega reputation are the Kinetic Cutting Beam and Borg console, which don't need Borg Neural Processors anyway.
Shields? One of the best shields in the game are the Elite Fleet Shields (specifically the resilient fleet shields Res
Nukara shields and deflector? Quite tanky, a small buff to damage and incredibly easy to earn through the crystalline entity.
Romulan engines? Epohh tagging.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Here are the last 13 (it's Friday the 13th)...
44344 (12142 - 2104)
77824 (31866 - 2114) (an anomaly, that 31k guy did 41%)
42622 (14843 - 2329)
36851 (10767 - 1947)
50130 (15223 - 3480)
55406 (15705 - 4909)
43048 (12380 - 942) (the 942 guy was active 14s out of 862)
49427 (27386 - 2839) (an anomaly, that 27k guy did 55%)
46302 (15407 - 4128)
90376 (38120 - 1353) (an anomaly, that 38k guy did 42%)
40697 (14815 - 2120)
86665 (30826 - 7258) (another type of anomaly, the 30k guy did 35% and the lowest was 7258, eh?)
42080 (12778 - 2200)
That 7258 guy...five of them...likely at least one person carrying a GW...and it might be a long run that puts some folks off, but they should not only avoid the fail but even score the Optional.
The 2104, 2114, 2329, 1947, and 3840 guys from those last five...what's their run going to look like?
Five folks doing 6-8k is a far cry from the potential that folks can manage in the game. That's what I'm talking about when I'm talking about content requirements vs. potential...and it's only about 1-2k DPS more than it was for ISE.
Saying that the new player that's doing 1-3k might not be ready for Advanced...it is what it is...five folks doing that is going to be a failure, yeah? Getting them from 1-3k to 6-8k isn't anything along the lines of trying to get them from 1-3k to 60-80k...Hell, even 20-30k.
Just to try to make that clearer, for where I'm coming from...Hell, even if those 1-3k folks got up to 4-5k; there are pretty good odds that there might be somebody in the 8-10-12k range that could cover the difference. There would still be that RNG risk of having five folks doing 4-5k and the group running into problems, but the way folks have been improving (used to be far more 30-40k groups than 40-50k) there's some room there.
Sure, some folks out there might want everybody doing 10k, 15k, 20k or more. I'm not one of them...I'm fingers crossed that folks will be in that 4-5k, 5-6k, 7k...range...when they're new to Advanced. Cause it's one thing to be new to Advanced and another to be new to the game and trying to do Advanced.
But they used to be. That change is the problem I think. Used to be able to have fleet T2 runs, or take in really green new members and get them involved with the vets without vets having to slum it in normals, or take in whatever oddball build you like so long as you flew it intelligently. Totally friendly to casuals, and you didn't have to take it seriously unless you specifically wanted to. Post DR, there is a lot more structure, hierarchy, people b!tching about 'you're playing it wrong,' things like that. Or are the people who liked how it was supposed to just "make peace" with part of the game being taken away from them?
If only there was a difficulty level just for elite players so they could challenge themselves while letting the rest of us continue to get our BNPs in space.
I'm not sure what you'd call it or if the game could handle a third difficulty.
Though I suppose the ones who couldn't hack the new difficulty would want the old one cranked up just below their skill level so they could still sustain themselves on the tears of the casuals while feeling elite.
That kind of struck me as odd.
Say I was running a fleet that was open to new/newer players, eh?
I'd probably have those folks that would team up with those new/newer players just in teamed missions/episodes...going through some of the fundamentals and just easing them into things there.
Then it would be a case of moving on to Normal queues, building upon the foundation - explaining how things go in the Normal - and better preparing the players. When it started to get to the point of moving on to Advanced, it would be a case of explaining some of the differences.
Then it would be a case of moving on to the Advanced queues, once again building upon that foundation. At some point, if they showed a continuing desire - then things would get more in depth and would start preparing them for Elite queues.
I wouldn't think of it as "slumming"...
...and well, folks running Elite queues in T2 boats tells me there is a problem.
Course, that's not to say a player has to join a fleet to learn that stuff. There are all sorts of resources for folks available out there...they could take advantage of those, asking any questions for stuff they're not clear on or if they can't quite decide on something.
The requirements for the STFs are still very casual. Sure, they're not barely have a pulse casual, but they're by no means anywhere near anything that could be considered hardcore in the least.
The Dev team has ALWAYS maintained that the STF's are supposed to be the hardest content in the game and reward teamwork, skill, and good builds. Advanced/Elite even moreso.
Power creep along with gimped NPC's may have let casual players get away with doing STF's in a casual way at times before, but that's not necessarily true anymore. It's learn or die, and failing to spend that time to learn the deeper knowledge means you're not only affecting yourself you're affecting the success of the entire team.
I have NOT put in the effort to learn buildcraft. I've picked up a lot from the forums over the years and I do fine in regular PvE, but I don't kid myself. I'm a casual player. I'm not hardcore and I never will be... I have a family that needs more attention from me than STO does and I'm not willing to trade that in for pushing my DPS to the next level.
I could do a copy-paste build. But I don't want to. I'd rather tinker with things my own way and at my own pace. I'm sure most of you would laugh at my builds, too. I slot the things that seem to make sense to me, fly whatever the hell I feel like flying that day, and let it go at that.
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That's rather disingenuous, as it ignores the history of STO STFs in favor of looking at just one section of time, as well as ignores the particulars of that section.
The first(?) iteration of STFs started as really intimidating hour long ground/space things.
Then they got split because that kind of time investment is way too hardcore. This second iteration was still not "casual friendly" either. In fact, as far as I know, STFs were not changed at all from this second iteration until DR.
During this period of time, very very few ships/players had above 5k DPS. eSTFs were still very intimidating - a PUG ISE was likely to "fail" if people didn't follow the 10% method, usually resulting in a desperate struggle to take out waves of nanite spheres and trying to do more damage to the transformers than the nanites would heal each wave. One such (ultimate successful) attempt took an hour.
Look at the longest running active thread(?) on the boards: Post your worst STF experience. It dates back to March 2012, during this segment of time. Nobody complaining were doing 10k DPS or anything like that - it was about tactics, teamwork, knowledge. It was not "casual friendly". This was when I joined PESTF along with ever increasing numbers of people who knew how to do eSTFs, and was fed up with being dragged down by the "casuals" who refused to learn.
The time period you're talking about is not the second iteration - it was when power creep resulted in the old methods no longer being necessary. The STFs did not become "casual friendly", power creep made it so that the good players could carry the weaker ones, so it was no longer necessary to go to private queues.
eSTFs were never "casual friendly". There was just a period of time where the highly competent were "casual friendly" because those "casuals" would make no appreciable impact on the success or failure of the eSTF. Now that your teammates are important again, a large section of the highly competent players are abandoning public queues so they don't waste their time failing to carry "casuals".
(Though I will note the last time I ran ISA it was in a PUG, of which 4 did 20k-28k and one did 5k, and we completed it handily.)
P.S.: The reason I keep putting "casual" in quotation marks is because using it synonymously with "ineffective", "militantly ignorant", or "incompetent" is frankly offensive. "Casual" is a play style and time investment, not a measure of competence. A "casual" Team Fortress player may not know the tricks of a class or a map, but could be an excellent shot with amazing reflexes and be a valued member of a team.
Taken away? You can do all that in normal.
They are for casuals, for casuals that read at least. I dont exactly know what hinders you with implementing what you read, as it cant be money, dilithium, ec or similar, as all this is not needed for 10k and CC. Even cooky-cutter-builds arent needed. I think the problem isnt you being a causal, its just that you, well, stop yourself from being able to complete them. "I am a casual" is just a very lazy, and very wrong, excuse.
But well, as long as you arent a hindrance to your team, I guess there isnt any point arguing about it. But I strongly dislike misinformation.
Indeed.
They say many things...and most game-experience-related things tend to be...misinformed to say the least.
Indeed. And the best part is: The weaker ones could flame on the forums how the evil Carrier (as in players that carried them) would ruin the game. It was a win-win-win-situation.
Now we carriers still win, and the weaker ones still fail to see the bigger picture.
ISE was pop the patrol, go high on the left cube. Then call out 10%, wait for everyone, someone called go. Usually the guy sitting in front of the gate with a couple of GWs.
Then the Scimitars showed up and it became just shoot what the Scimitar misses.
Then the new consoles and it was just HAHA! blow the TRIBBLE out of everything. Don't bother coordinating, you can solo it if need be. I was guilty of that with my A2B build. Didn't even pay attention to the other guys. I knew I could blow all 4 generators and the transformer solo before the nanites made it, if the team decided to shoot the pretty round things instead.
The only annoyance was if someone went right at the start and couldn't solo that side.
So now advanced is back to being hard. Good. They should be.
If there was an Elite difficulty then it would have to give increased rewards for the increased effort.
Then the Bad Players would queue for that instead, and whine about how hard it is.
If it's reward by effort the guys going through with a 2k average per member are putting in more effort then the 100k guys roflstomping it in .3 seconds.
Or you know, the BNPs and such could be down in the difficulties that can be pugged, pugged pugged, no super special channel with secret handshake pugged, to keep them out of the higher difficulties.
BNPs can be aquired in defera, which runs on normal difficulty...
And the current advanced can be pugged.
Isn't it only the hard missions, not the normal ones, that can award them?
This is what I flew for my last ISA. It's not what I flew for the ISA before. What I flew before wasn't what I flew before that. What I flew...etc, etc, etc. I just toss things on that might be fun. If they hadn't broken the Ferengi Rapid with the last patch, I'd still be running that (I think it looks cool paired with the Vaad Polarons - who cares that the proc is useless against unshielded targets or when the facing is down, eh?)...
Note: This is not a build recommendation for anybody thinking that it might be. I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of folks that would alternate between laughing at this and /facepalming at it.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=vaadgeneva_5343
Yep, got three G14 consoles there...
Bounty Hunter's Friend
Conductive RCS Accelerator [ShHP]
Exotic Particle Field Exciter [Kin]
...cause those three are on all my builds (Phantom, Hazari, Benthan, Samsar, Sarr Theln, Apex, Fleet Nebula, D'Kyr, Chel Grett, Plesh Brek, and APU) - and - well, it seemed worth it to do it for them.
The Core's VR14, cause I was looking at doing UR14 for [AMP] with it - but I guess I forgot, lol.
The build before that...
VR12 E-Bio Torp, R13 Elachi Crescent Cannon, 2x VR11 [Acc]x2 Polarized Disruptor DHCs
VR12 Heavy Bio Disruptor Turret, 2x VR11 [Acc]x2[CrtD] Nanite Disruptor Turrets
VR12 AMACO Deflector/Engine, UR12 Spire Core
UR13 Locator [+Dis], VR13 Disruptor Induction Coil
Switch the Bio-Neural Gel Packs for a G14 Bioneural Infusion Circuits.
Everything else the same. That build actually does somewhat better than the one I'm flying right now even with the worse weapons...has the 2pc Silent Enemy and 2pc Fluidic Ordnance. But I really dig the visual FX of the Vaadwaur Polarons...so wheeeeee!
I could hop in the Sarr Theln with 2pc Nukara, Fluidic Deflector, MACO shields, Spire Core w/ AMP, with some CrtD/Pen AP Arrays, Elite Scorps and Swarmers to do 19-22k DPS...
...but I like putzing around in whatever doing 8-12k.
I'm flying around in the Delta Quadrant with my Delta CBC, 3pc Delta (I went to look at doing the Delta Shields while I was putting that build in STOAcademy and saw that I already had - just hadn't collected them - had completely forgotten that I had slotted that project), with my Delta Flyers, and going pew pew with my Vaad Polarons.
I was an advocate for average DPS, mediocre builds, but having fun before DR...that hasn't changed with DR.
Sure, the "Wizards" can put out videos that kind of come off looking like magic...I put out a video with me flying around in circles and getting stuck in a Transformer.
Wheeeeeee!
From the patchnotes:
Easy, "hard", "hard", "hard". But "hard" on defera doesnt really mean hard, it means you need three players. The mission itself could be done bei BOs alone, if they were allowed.
There you go. You imply that I can't read or that I'm just lazy. If not wanting to take the time to parse my DPS is lazy, I'll wear that label gladly. I can take it. Just don't slap that label on every new or casual player that comes through here.
DR upset the apple cart and people who used to be able to pull off eSTF's can't complete Advanced (see, I do read) -- But people still don't want to do Normals because they can't earn BNP's that way. Or am I misinformed and Normal queues pop on a regular basis? I'll allow that could be true.
The OP came in to this thread thinking he knew what he was doing and found out the hard way that he didn't know a lot of the things that some of you take for granted. He was absolutely right that something changed, he just didn't understand why. Some people jumped on him for trolling and being ignorant, despite a clear indication that he was willing to learn when someone took the time to inform him and point him in the right direction.
That is not conducive to bringing new players into the community, or creating a desire to bother with STF's.
Casual players, like me, just want to log on and start playing. We don't necessarily want to use the skill planner and post a build for critique ... just about the first thing people told him to do. You're not wrong, but that's going beyond casual. Casual players want quick fixes so they can log in and play... only there are not a lot of quick fixes in STO.
I know enough to avoid some of the worst mistakes, except I've never outgrown my love for gimmick consoles.
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I believe the easy one is incorrectly in the patch notes.
V, I would never consider labeling you as a casual player.
Choosing to do stuff that other people "know better" than to do, doesn't mean you haven't put in the time to understand what you're doing.
Heck, you do all that math that makes me cringe. From where I'm sitting in the cheap seats, you're a battle-scarred career veteran.
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What! Dirty lies and heresy!
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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See, the thing is, the casual player can't have it both ways: be casual AND play Advanced STF's. That's like saying "I didn't go to college, but I want the jobs college people are getting anyway." It is inherently unreasonable -- not being casual, mind you, but being casual AND wanting access to an area of the game only more experienced players can handle.
And you can't help someone until you know what's wrong. Skill planner is a good first step, because just hearing the casual player talk about his "monster fleet patrol escort refit" isn't really doing it, Q.E.D.
Skill tree is often also an area that the casual player can (drastically) improve on. Also, Q.E.D.
I understand frustration. But at some point the casual player will face a choice: either improve his game, or remain at his current level. Both are valid options; but you can't really choose the latter, and then rant you "can never think of enough ways to say how much I hate Cryptic." when you fail at Advanced STF's.
And thus one reason why I said STF's aren't designed for casual players. I totally agree with everything you said in that post.
But you do understand that a casual player who doesn't understand why and how he needs to improve his game might get frustrated enough to rant when content he could do before is suddenly too hard?
What he doesn't realize is, it's not exactly the same content anymore and the level of difficulty is intentional.
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Actually, in your case I would rather say you refuse to take advice. Its not about copying things, its basically what you already said: You just do your own thing disregarding anything written in the forum, if it doesnt conform with what you were to do in the first place. Now since you stated you dont play anything than normal, I doubt you are an hindrance for your team. Not because I want to sooth relations to you, but simply because I can only imagine "failing" normal by trolling. Still, as far as teamplay goes, I always ensure that I add to the team; others might not feel the same need, but well, opinions, moral and ethics are not set in stone and vary from time to time and person to person.
But, one thing you did indeed not read: I stated multiple times (though not in the answers to your posts) that CC is the keystone to not failing advanced. DPS makes it easier, faster, but fundamentally CC is the single thing between failing and not failing for pugs.
The OP pretty much disqualified himself with his tone and demeanor. One couldnt be sure that the OP himself wasnt trolling, especially after he showed his build and it was obvious that the change leading to his downfall wasnt a recent one.
If he had written a OP like one would do with the slightest idea of etticete, this thread would have been over in less than two pages and the OP would have gotten nice answes only.
Obviously there shouldnt be any problem with staying in normal, eh? You think like that, and thats admirable compared to all those "casuals" (which is the wrong term if you ask me, being casual and being "competetive" isnt mutually exclusive) wanting to be able to complete advanced by either not being able to fail, or nerfing it to the points were a single individual can carry them easily (though tbh we are already at that point).
Were they able to pull off eSTFs or was it simply easier to find someone in the pug who could carry them?
If they were able to pull of eSTFs alone, then they wouldnt have had any problems to adjust to aSTFs. But of course the ones who where being carried would have had problems, because obviously most carriers belong to the dps-chans, due to DR the chans went far more lively (and played more within, as it simple was faster and less risky), because the ones who before could barely (barely!) carry a pug, werent able to do it now (which isnt as simply as needing more dps, but more along the lines of "focusing fire and planning ahead", which werent needed before and is even in the dpschans not that widespread as one would hope, though that is now whining on high niveau).
Another thing that non-dps-ers do (like you did actually) is one-dimensional thinking. Not knowing mechanics, not knowing about dps and not doing dps, but having the mindset of dps (as the sole tool to anything). That can only do one thing: Fail. Like they said in the Anime Kingdom: The weak have to find other ways to fight than the strong ones. In terms of the one-dimensional thinking that simply means: Think outside the box...
P.S.: The fun thing about most players 'preferences' in ship-builds ("Casuals", rp etc), if they would simply come forth, say "I have this. I am willing to spend that. And I want this (gear abilities) on my ship. What can you tell me to get higher performance within these constrains?", they would most likely be able to do more dps and additional features (tank, heal, cc, mix) than needed for advanced...
Fixed that for you. Casual is definetly the wrong term here.
I *do* agree on that. And you have a good point: frustration isn't always reasonable per se, but merely just that, the voicing of frustration.
Also agreed.
Come to think of it, the casual player doesn't necessarily *want* to be in an Advanced, but may feel ''forced' doing so, because he needs BNP's (and, like me, he may not do ground). I think it would have been better if Cryptic rewarded like 1 BNP for Normals, and 2 for Advanced, or some such. That might stop a lot of casual players from trying their hand at Advanceds -- against their better judgements -- because they feel they have no real choice.
It's not so much that the STF's got harder, although they did.
The real issue is that people want the gear that they need BNP's for, and this harder content is (almost) the only way to get BNP's.
This too, is by design.
I agree that the expectation that one should be able to earn BNP's on less difficult content is unreasonable. But unless one has been reading the forums long enough, they don't realize that their expectation is unreasonable.
Me, I don't want to play the harder content and I have zero expectation that I will earn enough BNP's to trick out my ship with all the Omega gear. I'm okay with that. My expectations are fully aligned.
I'm saying exactly what meimeitoo said, but in a different way. We have to start with aligning people's expectations with reality so they can make informed choices. Like being casual and living without those shinies, or improving your game enough to do ASTF's and getting the shinies as fast as you can.
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All you're proving is that you don't understand me and you think that you do. I mention DPS as a measure because, frankly, that's the measure that many people here on the forums use. I am well aware it's not the sole consideration.
Who is guilty of one dimensional thinking? The person who doesn't know he's in the box, or the one who put him there?
The correct answer is both. I, at least, am aware of the box I've put myself in and can choose to step out of it whenever I want. I don't put other people in boxes any more than I can help it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
This comes down to a major issue with current PvE queues - a lack of cost/reward, and a poorly (relatively) balanced cost/reward.
Me? I'll admit it, I'm far from casual. I go into advanced and elite queues with an expectation of success, and I'm rarely wrong. But Elite queues are frankly unrewarding compared to their advanced counterparts, and compared to what's required to progress in this game as a whole, all of the queues are. Great, I have BNP's. I have 22k omega marks. But what I need isn't potential sources of unrefined dilithium, it's crafting mats to make the literally thousands of upgrade kits that pushing a full ship's worth of gear to MK XIV or MK XIV Epic requires. What I need is xp to get specialization points. And yet Advanced and Elite queues remain the best source of RnD materials. So... I can either gear up more alts for Advanced and Elite queues, or I can acquire hundreds of thousands of potential unrefined dilithium.
Once you've got the gear, one Elite queue rewards you more dil than the cost of the upgrades you can make from it's mats box (assuming you convert marks/BNP's/etc to dil). I would rather have it the other way around, imo - and I don't mean nerf dil, I mean vastly increase RnD supply.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
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