Yes, I wasn't trying to argue either. I just wanted to say that current Sovereign isn't just a cruiser but an assault cruiser. True, battlecruiser here means different gameplay, but there's no reason why she shouldn't become battlecruiser. She is sleek, definitely more agile and more combat oriented than Galaxy for example. Sure, the explorer is official classification, but I never really liked it, because it is not true (at least not entirely), because if this was the case, then Galaxy, Sovereign and all other ships would have minimum to no weaponry at all. However we have seen that both ships are able to defeat almost any other ships from any other faction from Alpha/Beta quadrants and even further. Let's just take Intrepid for an example, which is mostly oriented towards exploration, but still can beat the TRIBBLE out of a lot of alien ships. So yes, officially they might be called explorers, but unofficially they are everything else than just that. And it seems to me that at the time of STO, that has changed drastically and there are all kinds of designation for Federation ships (some are even called dreadnought and battleships).
(...)
Btw, I didn't wanted to make Sovereign vs. Galaxy discussion (I like both ships actually), but since some of the people pulled that one off, I must respond as well.
Yes, some of you might want to stone me for this, but Sovereign is more powerful ship and reasons for that we saw on screen. While Galaxy has type X phaser arrays, Sovereign has type XII which are more powerful, and besides that it has more phaser arrays altogether. She has also more torpedo launcher and quantum torpedoes as well which Galaxy don't (at least we didn't saw her firing one). Sovereign also has more powerful warp core, shields and armor as well and probably higher structural integrity field as well.
Sorry again, but I cannot let this one go
Why in all the universe would Exploration mean the ships would be undergunned? There is literally nothing supporting that, quite the contrary: Exploration, in history and in Star Trek always means facing the unknown. In case of Starfleet's prime Explorer, the Galaxy, it meant going for years without support into deep-space where every second encounter was with some semi-omnipotent alien race that wants to murder your face. All Starfleet ships are armed to the teeth for their relative size, there is no "unarmed exploration" - I don't even understand why people assume something like that.
The Galaxy had Type X phasers in TNG but was scheduled for major refits (including structural modifications, see the Venture-type in DS9) in 25 year periods. It is safe to assume that they don't let them stay at Type X forever. The Sovereign has more phaser arrays because it's shape is vastly inferior to the Galaxy from a tactical standpoint - it is riddled with blind spots and the main arrays cannot even focus on the same target. That's why it needs more arrays, to cover blind spots while the two main arrays on the Galaxy cover a 300° area around the ship. Quantum torpedoes are again something to be refitted and wether more launchers equal more firepower is something I highly doubt, see phaser arrays.
I don't know about the rest, I cannot find any source on more powerful shields, armour or warp cores.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I can see the argument of having the Assault Cruiser being changed into a Battle Cruiser for game terms; only as the in-game designation already leans itself towards such a change. To be honest, I don't think it will happen, but let's look at some realistic changes if they did.
Inertia Rating. The Avenger has a rating of 50 and the Eclipse has a rating of 55. If converted over to a Battle Cruiser, an increase of 40 or 45 would be appropriate. I would lean more towards 40. This would still be an improvement over the it's current inertia, while not stepping on the toes of the previously established Federation Battle Cruisers, and would reflect the more maneuverability one would expect from a Battle Cruiser.
Armament. NO CHANGE. This ship would still be limited to Beam Arrays.
Turn Rate. NO CHANGE.
Mastery Passives. The Assault Cruiser would of course gain the Battle Cruiser mastery passives.
Hull. -10% Hull. Something has to give for the extra maneuverability.
Keep in mind, these are just my personal musings on one cup of coffee; and my thought processes are up and running at normal levels yet. And I do not expect any of these to amount to anything at all or than a cursory glance from the Devs.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Since they started introducing some of the canon ships as T6 ships (first Intrepid and now Dominion attack ship too) and there are already request for some other ship to become T6 as well, I wanted to also share my wish for a most beautiful and one the best starships ever seen in Star Trek (at least for me). I'm speaking about Sovereign class of course.
Here are reasons why there should be a T6 version of her:
1.) As I already said, Sovereign is one of the best designed ships I've seen on screen, and I think that many people would agree with me.
2.) She is also the most powerful ships seen in canon and I believe she would still be between the most powerful ships even during STO timeline. And if Intrepid could get her T6 version, there is absolutely no reason why Sovereign class shouldn't.
3.) Has a bridge seen in the movies and I'm quite certain that one exists in game. Besides that I believe she also have other interiors like engineering, sickbay, ready room, briefing room, corridors, restaurant..., and they probably exist in game too. They could even make them more modern or STO era like.
4.) Sovereign class has variety of good auxiliary craft including captain's yacht, type 11 shuttles and argo shuttles with land all-terrain vehicles.
5.) While she wasn't seen during Voyager, she appears in movie with events that are happening after Voyager's return to Alpha quadrant.
6.) She would make an excellent command or intel ship. And maybe even both in one.
7.) While we never saw it on screen, there was a plan of making her able to do saucer separation, there is even concept sketch of it as seen here.
Now let's get to my vision of what she should have as T6:
- type: cruiser (tier 6)
- hull: 48547 at lvl 50, 58000 at lvl 60
- shield modifier: 1.12 at lvl 50 and 1.13 at lvl 60
- turn rate: 9
- crew: 800
- 5 fore weapons slots and 5 aft weapon slots (yes, the time has come to start increasing maximum number of weapons slots and since Sovereign has a lot of phaser arrays and torpedo launchers it is only logical to give her more weapon slots)
- a special slot for secondary deflector dish (if she's going to be able for saucer separation she should have this)
- 5 eng, 4 tac and 3 sci console slots for command engineering variant, 4 eng, 5 tac, 3 sci for command tactical variant, and 4 eng, 4 tac and 4 sci for command science variant
- 4 eng, 4 tac and 4 sci console slots for intel variant
- universal console: cloaking device (in case of intel variant)
- universal console: regenerative ablative armor (in case of eng command variant)
- universal console: point-defense phaser turrets (in case of command tactical variant)
- universal console: secondary shield generators (in case of sci command variant)
- both universal console in case of command/intel crossover variants
- should be able to equip dual cannons
- saucer separation ability (all variants)
- captain's yacht (all variants)
- metreon gas canisters (all variants)
- hangar bay - argo or type 11 shuttles (command variants only)
- cloak (intel variant only)
For the T6 Sovereign they could, also with the added slots, introduce new type of regenerative shielding or a shield system similar to the one on In ST Nemesis? The T6 Sovereign should be post nemesis at least. As for design there is apparently 2 types that John Eaves has done for the post nemesis Enterprise E design, which is on his website. I think they should introduce both of them or at least the second design. Also maybe introduce rapid fire phaser arrays, which fire at a faster rate the standard phasers do. I agree the stats should be equal at least to the latest Federation ships.
Also they could add a design of the T6 Sovereign post nemesis with a neck. Maybe you could decide which Boff layout you want to use instead of there being variants of the T6 Sovereign? Either way I am fine with.
Now let's get to my vision of what she should have as T6:
- type: cruiser (tier 6)
- hull: 48547 at lvl 50, 58000 at lvl 60
- shield modifier: 1.12 at lvl 50 and 1.13 at lvl 60
- turn rate: 9
- crew: 800
- 5 fore weapons slots and 5 aft weapon slots (yes, the time has come to start increasing maximum number of weapons slots and since Sovereign has a lot of phaser arrays and torpedo launchers it is only logical to give her more weapon slots)
- a special slot for secondary deflector dish (if she's going to be able for saucer separation she should have this)
- 5 eng, 4 tac and 3 sci console slots for command engineering variant, 4 eng, 5 tac, 3 sci for command tactical variant, and 4 eng, 4 tac and 4 sci for command science variant
- 4 eng, 4 tac and 4 sci console slots for intel variant
- universal console: cloaking device (in case of intel variant)
- universal console: regenerative ablative armor (in case of eng command variant)
- universal console: point-defense phaser turrets (in case of command tactical variant)
- universal console: secondary shield generators (in case of sci command variant)
- both universal console in case of command/intel crossover variants
- should be able to equip dual cannons
- saucer separation ability (all variants)
- captain's yacht (all variants)
- metreon gas canisters (all variants)
- hangar bay - argo or type 11 shuttles (command variants only)
- cloak (intel variant only)
Ant that would be it If you have some thoughts or better suggestion about it feel free to share them.
OK, firstly I support the idea of Tier 6 versions of canon ships, specifically the ones that made it to Tier 5, Galaxy, Sovereign, Nebula, and yes even the Ambassador and Excelsior...
As for your proposed specs... this would never make it into the game, sorry to say.
The Hull strength seems a tad high, the Sovereign had Ablative armor but that's a console now so if we take that off it doesn't have the mass and bulk of other cruisers so 55,000@60 would be a more appropriate number.
The shield mod seems ok, the Sovereign always had powerful shields so that's fine.
Turn Rate, 8 would be more 'balanced' but it could sit at 9 and possibly get away with it...
5/5 weapons, this is where I almost fell out of my chair, this will never happen, all T5+ cruisers have 8 weapons, the only exception being the Galaxy Dreadnought and only if you count its Phaser Lance as a weapon and not an ability. Putting 10 weapons on a cruiser would make ALL other T5 - T6 cruisers obsolete and would undermine T6 ship sales of other cruisers, not to mention all the KDF and Romulan players who would scream "WHY DON'T WE HAVE SOMETHING WITH THIS MUCH FIREPOWER?!?". Agreed the tech specs of the Sovereign show more than 8 weapons, but if the developers took canon specs and put them directly in STO, imagine how many weapons a Scimitar would have... in a word: Yikes!
Console slots, you've seem to have done the math wrong, 12 consoles would make this effectively a Fleet Tier 7 ship, To elaborate, T5 ships have 9, Fleet T5 have 10, T5-U have 10 and Fleet T5-U have 11, T6 have 10 and Fleet T6 have 11, putting 12 on a ship would again make this an overpowered, unbalanced monster...
Cloaking on a Sovereign? I have to seriously disagree with this, while true in canon almost any ship can be equipped with a cloak in STO Starfleet is very strict as to which ships can use a cloak, Galaxy Dreadnought and Defiant because it was established in canon, Intel specialized ships because it makes sense to their function and then the Avenger, which I'm not sure... probably a marketing gimmick.
Saucer Separation? Interesting Idea, but there are many ships that already do that, and the Sovereign never did that on screen or even mentioned being able to do it.
As for the Armor, point defense, and secondary shields?
1. The Armor might be an interesting idea, I have no objections here.
2. The Thunderchild class already has Phaser point defense, which may be equipped on other ships.
3. The Scimitar has secondary shields, while I can see Starfleet trying to make use of the Tech I don't see it happening to the Sovereign.
The Regent comes standard with Metreon Gas canisters, and it can be equipped on other ships, so a T6 Sovereign shouldn't come with it standard.
I like the idea of a deployable Captain's Yacht, it would be very cool and canon since it was done in Insurrection, but might overlap with the Aero shuttle on the Pathfinder, I'd still love to use it, though
Hangar bay, the Sovereign does have a sizable shuttle bay so it could work, but the Galaxy has a larger main shuttle bay and
two other shuttle bays to add to it, so making the Galaxy a 'flight deck cruiser' would make more sense to me. But I would not object to a hangar on the Sovereign.
Bridge officer slots, Commander level specialized stations are reserved for specialized ships, ie. Presidio (command), and Eclipse (Intel), I could see a Lieutenant slot having a specialized station, likely command, I don't see the Sovereign as an Intel ship. Also, commander universal slots are generally reserved for Lockbox/lobi ships you'd be hard-pressed to find a Commander Universal station on any other ship. There is also a bit too much variance in your Bridge officer loadouts, bundle ships generally have the same bridge officer configurations, just different console layouts.
Finally, all this nit-picking aside I do understand your point, you want to see the Sovereign as a powerful beast in STO, I've felt this about a few ships myself, but this is a game and cannot have one 'all powerful' ship', it would create a serious imbalance in ship performance, not to mention everyone would be flying the exact same ship...
Ok, I admit that what I wrote in my first post is a little too op. So let's just narrow it down do two main different variants (one tactical, one intel and third would be fleet version ofc).
Sovereign class T6 command battlecruiser:
- type: cruiser (tier 6)
- hull: 46547 at lvl 50, 56000 at lvl 60
- shield modifier: 1.12 at lvl 50 and 1.13 at lvl 60
- turn rate: 8
- crew: 800
- 4 fore weapons slots and 4 aft weapon slots
- 4 eng, 4 tac and 3 sci consoles
- should be able to equip dual cannons
- saucer separation ability
- captain's yacht
- hangar bay - argo or type 11 shuttles (argo shuttles would fit better for this variant)
- a special slot for point-defense phaser turret
- universal console: metreon gas canisters
Boff slots: commander eng/command, lieutenant commander tac, lieutenant sci/command, lieutenant eng and ensign universal
Sovereign class T6 intelligence battlecruiser:
- type: cruiser (tier 6)
- hull: 46547 at lvl 50, 56000 at lvl 60
- shield modifier: 1.12 at lvl 50 and 1.13 at lvl 60
- turn rate: 8
- crew: 800
- 4 fore weapons slots and 4 aft weapon slots
- 3 eng, 4 tac and 4 sci consoles
- should be able to equip dual cannons
- saucer separation ability
- captain's yacht
- hangar bay - argo or type 11 shuttles (type 11 shuttles would be better suited for this variant)
- a special slot for secondary deflector dish
- universal console: cloaking device
Boff slots: commander eng/intel, lieutenant command tac, lieutenant sci/intel, lieutenant eng and ensign universal
As for fleet version it should have an additional console slot (additional eng console for command variant or additional sci console for intelligence variant), increased max. hull points, shield modifier and shield for 10 percent, and ensign universal boff slot replaced with lieutenant universal boff slot.
Better now?
Yes, I wasn't trying to argue either. I just wanted to say that current Sovereign isn't just a cruiser but an assault cruiser. True, battlecruiser here means different gameplay, but there's no reason why she shouldn't become battlecruiser. She is sleek, definitely more agile and more combat oriented than Galaxy for example. Sure, the explorer is official classification, but I never really liked it, because it is not true (at least not entirely), because if this was the case, then Galaxy, Sovereign and all other ships would have minimum to no weaponry at all. However we have seen that both ships are able to defeat almost any other ships from any other faction from Alpha/Beta quadrants and even further. Let's just take Intrepid for an example, which is mostly oriented towards exploration, but still can beat the TRIBBLE out of a lot of alien ships. So yes, officially they might be called explorers, but unofficially they are everything else than just that. And it seems to me that at the time of STO, that has changed drastically and there are all kinds of designation for Federation ships (some are even called dreadnought and battleships).
Maybe it was that so, I can't quite remember atm, because I haven't watched TNG or TNG movies for quite some time now. However, in the case of Sovereign, I'm pretty certain that in her case advanced does mean more powerful.
In that case it would be for the best to create all three variants (command, intelligence and that third one we haven't figured out yet), because not of all people would like to go with just one specific variant. As I'm more biased toward eng/tac myself, I know that only eng/sci variant wouldn't please me.
Btw, I didn't wanted to make Sovereign vs. Galaxy discussion (I like both ships actually), but since some of the people pulled that one off, I must respond as well.
Yes, some of you might want to stone me for this, but Sovereign is more powerful ship and reasons for that we saw on screen. While Galaxy has type X phaser arrays, Sovereign has type XII which are more powerful, and besides that it has more phaser arrays altogether. She has also more torpedo launcher and quantum torpedoes as well which Galaxy don't (at least we didn't saw her firing one). Sovereign also has more powerful warp core, shields and armor as well and probably higher structural integrity field as well.
"The script for Star Trek: First Contact also gave Eaves(the ship designer) some important guidance. It described the Enterprise-E as a more advanced, faster ship that was designed to fight the Borg." See this...http://fsd.trekships.org/art/1701-e.html
This is why the crew was shocked when the Admiral kept them from the fight in First Contact.
She surely is a more battle oriented cruiser. This is why in game I think the Sov should have more teeth. If not the Sov, than definitely her successor the Ody.
The Ody would have had the same war based thinking and design as the Sov. With the Borg, Iconians, and the Voth, the Federation has more enemies than ever!
How? The Galaxy has never shown more than dispersal pattern Sierra 10 shot burst while the Sovereign has shown 9 shot bursts from both launchers. 18 vs 10 isn't close.
Sovereign doesn't need the larger array because it's primary hull is more slender giving less blind spots than the Galaxy.
The extra volume the Galaxy has is due to the massive crew quarters and the 100+ scientific labs, school, dolphin tank, and 3rd computer core for all those labs.
The Dominion war Galaxy's were fully combat capable while being nearly 2/3rds empty. No labs no families.
The Galaxy is the better long range explorer while the Sovereign is the better combat vessel.
the sov has a HUGE blind spot do to it's recessed arrays on the saucer. it is unable to get both ventral and dorsal saucer arrays on the same target with out shooting it's self. the placement of the nacelles and the lack of dorsal coverage also creates some blind spots when a target is above and behind the ship. the galaxy does not have any of these issues able to fire both main saucer arrays at the same target and having complete coverage with all it's arrays with out any of the ship interfering especially the later venture refit with the nacelle mounted phaser strips.
the 100+ sciance labs was the E-D the E-D was one configuration. replace those labs with more shuttle or fighter launching capability (the dominion galaxies with the double decker main shuttle bay for ingoing and out going traffic. (stated as such by the FX arts and the producers of the show) something the sov does not have the room for so just not the galaxy the sov would also have to deal with fighter support.
the galaxy is a central command siege weapon functioning similar to a aircraft carrier fleet by it's self with the sov being more like maneuverable heavy cruiser. the ships are in different weight classes
OK, firstly I support the idea of Tier 6 versions of canon ships, specifically the ones that made it to Tier 5, Galaxy, Sovereign, Nebula, and yes even the Ambassador and Excelsior...
As for your proposed specs... this would never make it into the game, sorry to say.
The Hull strength seems a tad high, the Sovereign had Ablative armor but that's a console now so if we take that off it doesn't have the mass and bulk of other cruisers so 55,000@60 would be a more appropriate number.
The shield mod seems ok, the Sovereign always had powerful shields so that's fine.
Turn Rate, 8 would be more 'balanced' but it could sit at 9 and possibly get away with it...
5/5 weapons, this is where I almost fell out of my chair, this will never happen, all T5+ cruisers have 8 weapons, the only exception being the Galaxy Dreadnought and only if you count its Phaser Lance as a weapon and not an ability. Putting 10 weapons on a cruiser would make ALL other T5 - T6 cruisers obsolete and would undermine T6 ship sales of other cruisers, not to mention all the KDF and Romulan players who would scream "WHY DON'T WE HAVE SOMETHING WITH THIS MUCH FIREPOWER?!?". Agreed the tech specs of the Sovereign show more than 8 weapons, but if the developers took canon specs and put them directly in STO, imagine how many weapons a Scimitar would have... in a word: Yikes!
Console slots, you've seem to have done the math wrong, 12 consoles would make this effectively a Fleet Tier 7 ship, To elaborate, T5 ships have 9, Fleet T5 have 10, T5-U have 10 and Fleet T5-U have 11, T6 have 10 and Fleet T6 have 11, putting 12 on a ship would again make this an overpowered, unbalanced monster...
Cloaking on a Sovereign? I have to seriously disagree with this, while true in canon almost any ship can be equipped with a cloak in STO Starfleet is very strict as to which ships can use a cloak, Galaxy Dreadnought and Defiant because it was established in canon, Intel specialized ships because it makes sense to their function and then the Avenger, which I'm not sure... probably a marketing gimmick.
Saucer Separation? Interesting Idea, but there are many ships that already do that, and the Sovereign never did that on screen or even mentioned being able to do it.
As for the Armor, point defense, and secondary shields?
1. The Armor might be an interesting idea, I have no objections here.
2. The Thunderchild class already has Phaser point defense, which may be equipped on other ships.
3. The Scimitar has secondary shields, while I can see Starfleet trying to make use of the Tech I don't see it happening to the Sovereign.
The Regent comes standard with Metreon Gas canisters, and it can be equipped on other ships, so a T6 Sovereign shouldn't come with it standard.
I like the idea of a deployable Captain's Yacht, it would be very cool and canon since it was done in Insurrection, but might overlap with the Aero shuttle on the Pathfinder, I'd still love to use it, though
Hangar bay, the Sovereign does have a sizable shuttle bay so it could work, but the Galaxy has a larger main shuttle bay and
two other shuttle bays to add to it, so making the Galaxy a 'flight deck cruiser' would make more sense to me. But I would not object to a hangar on the Sovereign.
Bridge officer slots, Commander level specialized stations are reserved for specialized ships, ie. Presidio (command), and Eclipse (Intel), I could see a Lieutenant slot having a specialized station, likely command, I don't see the Sovereign as an Intel ship. Also, commander universal slots are generally reserved for Lockbox/lobi ships you'd be hard-pressed to find a Commander Universal station on any other ship. There is also a bit too much variance in your Bridge officer loadouts, bundle ships generally have the same bridge officer configurations, just different console layouts.
Finally, all this nit-picking aside I do understand your point, you want to see the Sovereign as a powerful beast in STO, I've felt this about a few ships myself, but this is a game and cannot have one 'all powerful' ship', it would create a serious imbalance in ship performance, not to mention everyone would be flying the exact same ship...
I believe the Hero classes should be some of the best ships in the game. No, we are not asking for a "planet killer", but it should be very formidable. As they were in Canon. However, no smoking gun ships.
Captains yacht would be cool. It is larger than a runabout, too.
John Eaves did design saucer separation in anticipation of the need for it. It is similar to the Ody.
I agree with your opinion on the Scimitar. That would be insane.
If we are going to have a war with the Iconians....we need our T6 Hero ships!!!
I remember reading an article by John Eaves, one of the creators of the Sovereign Class, saying the only blind spot on the ship was the rear, that is why in Nemesis they added phaser arrays on the nacelles.
Technically ,the Galaxy vs Sovereign debate is moot, both ships would kill each other 5 minutes into the fight.
A Doominion war Refit Galaxy fields increased defenses and was upgunned. Th Sovereign trades in "bulk" for agility. Trading in bulk means that taking hits degrades your ship faster since you have less bulk to absorb damage and all your systems are more tightly packed with literally less room for redundancy. (and lack of redundancy has screwed the pre-dominion refit Galaxy (Enterprise d) on several occasions. Remember that phaser coupling in yesterdays enterprise?
Yep. The 2 primary weapons in the galaxy's arsenal are the 2 main arrays on the saucer. And it proved that by basically popping that k'vort like an egg (just in time to get screwed over in generations, where a 12 year old scout ship the size of a pimple took that hit head on...).
Too bad the array went offline after that one power coupling it had failed. wut.
Redundancy. The Sovy has less because due to smaller bulk, everything is packed more densely, and with so many separate weapon bank... well its a tangled web of "please shoot me" systems.
+ THe sovys array emitters are of a higher mark, but smaller number....
Both ships would shoot each other to scraps, victor decided by who hit the warpcore ejection button first.
That being said:
The game "lore" has already moved on to the avenger, odyssey and cohorts.
So lets not use the words "most powerful <anything>" in these threads.
yay for a t6 assault cruiser.
yay for all iconic ships to get a t6.
And GOOD t6 cryptic (looks at the history of the Galaxy in cryptics hands).
They could always just do to the Enterprise line to what they did to the Voyager with the Pathfinder.
Call it the Flagship pack or whatever you want. All the ships would be ones that previously carried the Enterprise name. (Not including alternate timeline/etc types.)
NX (Not gunna happen)
Constitution (I don't see this happening either, as they've said.)
Excelsior
Ambasador
Galaxy
Sovereign
Odyssey
Take out the original Enterprise and Connie and you get 4 canon ship upgrades and one from STO with the Ody.
Snag a few of the voice actors from each era, Kirk and Sulu for the Excelsior, Picard/etc for the Galaxy/Sovereign, make a mini episode out of it maybe tied to next years anniversary or something as a homage to Star Trek itself.
But yet we never see the Galaxy shoot both ventral and dorsal arrays at the same time.
But since the Sovereign has 2 dorsal and 2 ventral arrays both dorsal or both ventral arrays can fire at the same time. If not there are other arrays along the secondary hull which would add a second firing point .
The Sovereign is more manueverable and is still covered 360° all around.
Her smaller profile makes her a harder target to hit which is why her saucer is streamlined forward not width wise as the Galaxy which has more bulk .
And despite those DW mods to those Galaxy's they were still two thirds empty. Even a smaller ship as the Akira has extensive capacity for shuttles.
the akira is only a carrier in sto. it was never a carrier in the show. it was a mobile artillery torpedo platform with side mounted torp launchers and the only ship to have tricobalts as standard compliment. this is form the FX staff
and we do see the galaxy fire both in DS9 during the war. and having 2 ventral and 2 dorsal arrays just drops it;s potential single shot damage by not being able to charge up all the emitters making the sov have less damage potential
They could always just do to the Enterprise line to what they did to the Voyager with the Pathfinder.
Call it the Flagship pack or whatever you want. All the ships would be ones that previously carried the Enterprise name. (Not including alternate timeline/etc types.)
NX (Not gunna happen)
Constitution (I don't see this happening either, as they've said.)
Excelsior
Galaxy
Sovereign
Odyssey
Take out the original Enterprise and you get 3 canon ship upgrades and one from STO with the Ody.
Snag a few of the voice actors from each era, Kirk and Sulu for the Excelsior, Picard/etc for the Galaxy/Sovereign, make a mini episode out of it maybe tied to next years anniversary or something as a homage to Star Trek itself.
Money. Hand. Over. Fist.
That is a pretty good idea! They could make a ton of money on something like that. Everyone at Cryptic could get a pay raise on the amount of money they would make.
I don't see the NX-01 being T6...so maybe make it pre-Admiral level. I don't see T6 in the Conny's future either.
All the other ships...T6 for sure. However, you would have the make each ship have some pretty unique abilities. Maybe give each one a more specialized role with specific consoles and ship modifiers. Also, some get hangers or perhaps a captains yacht.
The voiceovers....you are talking big money for William Shatner and Sir Patrick Stewart. I don't see it. They are definitely of a different caliber than the voiceovers in game currently with the exception of Spock/Leonard Nimoy. It is doable, but would depend on two things...the money and the actors. I am sure the Devs would jump at the chance to add them in...they claim to be fans.
However, at this timeline, Picard is an Ambassador to Vulcan and Kirk is gone. I could see using Kirk in a time travel mission. They had Spock do a hail in one of the time travel missions already in game. Picard could be a story arc involving Vulcan or again a time travel mission (Maybe we could get a story post Nemesis with the Enterprise-E). They could also try getting Brent Spiner and have him reprise his role as Data/B4 and create the story how/why the Enterprise-E got replaced.
Some voiceovers from some of the major characters would be very nice.
Since they started introducing some of the canon ships as T6 ships (first Intrepid and now Dominion attack ship too) and there are already request for some other ship to become T6 as well, I wanted to also share my wish for a most beautiful and one the best starships ever seen in Star Trek (at least for me). I'm speaking about Sovereign class of course.
Here are reasons why there should be a T6 version of her:
*Snipped Unrestrained Power Creep TRIBBLE*
Your proposed stats had absolutely no sense, no moderation, zero sense of balance, to include even features that were never shown to be used with the Sovereign-class in canon.
They could always just do to the Enterprise line to what they did to the Voyager with the Pathfinder.
Call it the Flagship pack or whatever you want. All the ships would be ones that previously carried the Enterprise name. (Not including alternate timeline/etc types.)
NX (Not gunna happen)
Constitution (I don't see this happening either, as they've said.)
Excelsior
Galaxy
Sovereign
Odyssey
Take out the original Enterprise and you get 3 canon ship upgrades and one from STO with the Ody.
Snag a few of the voice actors from each era, Kirk and Sulu for the Excelsior, Picard/etc for the Galaxy/Sovereign, make a mini episode out of it maybe tied to next years anniversary or something as a homage to Star Trek itself.
Money. Hand. Over. Fist.
wheres the Ambassador?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I prefer more KDF and Romulan starships, but I would support a T6 version of the T5 Sovereign class assault cruiser since the free T5 Sovereign was the ship my Fed engineer has flown the most.
Now that T6 Galaxy class version is out (I mean Andromeda), the time has come for a Sovereign class to get her T6 version. Who agrees with me?
A tier 6 Sovereign is perfectly viable but with 5 fore and 5 aft weapon slots?...
And people say that us Galaxy fans are demanding because we wanted a fourth tactical slot.
a cruiser with those stats and 10 weapon slots would make every other ship in the game obsolete.
It was never called that. The Galaxy Enterprise was called the most powerful by the Borg (badass Borg, mind you, not VOY wussborg). The Sovereign Enterprise was the most advanced ship in the fleet (and took that from the Intrepid/Voyager). Everything more than those lines of dialogue is fan speculation anyway
This, pretty much. The Sov was pretty clearly intended to be a successor to the Excelsior as the fleet's standard heavy cruiser (whereas the GCS is a flagship-level command vessel TRIBBLE line battleship); in fact I believe that was stated by the producers. All it was was the newest ship class in the fleet at the time.
This is not opposition to a T6 Sov in general, just a debunk of several statements made. And as stated, A) it's a cruiser, not a battlecruiser, and 5/5 weapons is ridiculous--not even the Scimitar gets that.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
You can see the stats of a Fleet T5U Sovereign and gauge very well what the T6 stats are going to be. Every T5 ship ported over to T6 has not deviated noticeably from the lower tiered versions basic console and BOFF layout. The only thing that changes is the +1 BOFF ability slot as well as expected improvements in hull/shield. Matter of fact, the T6 console layouts are EXACTLY the same as the Fleet T5U versions. Only thing different is the T6 Pathfinder because it lost a TAC Console and is not Fleet level yet at T6. When it gets a fleet version, it'll get it back.
You can see the very predictable evolution for them all.
Intrepid
Galaxy
Negh'Var
D'Deridex
5 forward weapons and 5 aft weapons on a T6 Sovereign? Lay down the crack pipe.
Hah the op made me laugh as did the revised idea. If/when they release a t6 sovereign it will have the same flight characteristics that the current version has. Same turn rate, inertia rating, ...etc. The boff layout will be slightly different, but closely resemble it's current incarnation.
I don't think the Sovereign will be classed as an Intel nor a Command cruiser.
It might become the game's Pilot Cruiser, though, together with the Vor'cha on KDF side.
Making it the most spectacularly maneuverable cruisers in game.
After the T6 Defiant of course.
Defiant should have at least a LC pilot station, the Sovereign at least a lt, but would be allright with pilot station being a secondary one.
It doesn't matter which ship is stronger in canon.
The Galaxy threads were about how ****ty the boff layout was. That got fixed now.
+ a high quality model was added. (KUDOS FOR THAT)
The Defiant and sovereign are naturally also due their t6 debut, and i would hope we also see more romulan and klingon ships (t6 k'vort?).
The sovy always had a rock solid boff layout, especially the regent and fleet variant so i guess we can expect a ltcom/eng/pilot seating, and perhaps also a redone model.
The defiant might trade in that superfluous ensign tac for something cool instead and get a hybrid tac/pilot ltc.
Do not derail the thread with endless debates abut which ship has the bigger peen, because that contest is automatically won by the Galaxy, HEHE. As a movie ship, the E always suffers the "why do we not see this awesome thing around anywhere else?" syndrome. Who led the charge in Sacrifice of angels? Yes. The Battering ram, err Galaxy class. Who rolled over chintoka? Galaxy's did.
hehe.. But seriously: yay for t6 everything. Now that i have my galaxy, how can i come and block other people dream ships.
High quality nebula anyone? perhaps... with a dyson role change mode? ^^
3. They don't do full interiors anymore because it's too much effort for too little profit (has been openly stated).
Sounds like talk from a suit who has grossly underestimated the value of the Galaxy class. (dil exchange exploded from 190 to 235 in one day I WONDER WHY DERP) I'm shocked that they keep cranking out interiors for shows like DS9, a show they don't give a TRIBBLE about, or the connie, a ship they don't want you to play, but they won't do one for the Ship the rabid player base foams at the mouth for.
Sounds like talk from a suit who has grossly underestimated the value of the Galaxy class. (dil exchange exploded from 190 to 235 in one day I WONDER WHY DERP) I'm shocked that they keep cranking out interiors for shows like DS9, a show they don't give a TRIBBLE about, or the connie, a ship they don't want you to play, but they won't do one for the Ship the rabid player base foams at the mouth for.
ds9 is a social zoen and also missions take place there. Naturally its gonna get overhauls. ESD got one too. And it turned out awesome. ^^
AS for galaxy interiors? Only when there will be missions featuring those locales i reckon. AKA: never. ^^
Comments
Sorry again, but I cannot let this one go
Why in all the universe would Exploration mean the ships would be undergunned? There is literally nothing supporting that, quite the contrary: Exploration, in history and in Star Trek always means facing the unknown. In case of Starfleet's prime Explorer, the Galaxy, it meant going for years without support into deep-space where every second encounter was with some semi-omnipotent alien race that wants to murder your face. All Starfleet ships are armed to the teeth for their relative size, there is no "unarmed exploration" - I don't even understand why people assume something like that.
The Galaxy had Type X phasers in TNG but was scheduled for major refits (including structural modifications, see the Venture-type in DS9) in 25 year periods. It is safe to assume that they don't let them stay at Type X forever. The Sovereign has more phaser arrays because it's shape is vastly inferior to the Galaxy from a tactical standpoint - it is riddled with blind spots and the main arrays cannot even focus on the same target. That's why it needs more arrays, to cover blind spots while the two main arrays on the Galaxy cover a 300° area around the ship. Quantum torpedoes are again something to be refitted and wether more launchers equal more firepower is something I highly doubt, see phaser arrays.
I don't know about the rest, I cannot find any source on more powerful shields, armour or warp cores.
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Inertia Rating. The Avenger has a rating of 50 and the Eclipse has a rating of 55. If converted over to a Battle Cruiser, an increase of 40 or 45 would be appropriate. I would lean more towards 40. This would still be an improvement over the it's current inertia, while not stepping on the toes of the previously established Federation Battle Cruisers, and would reflect the more maneuverability one would expect from a Battle Cruiser.
Armament. NO CHANGE. This ship would still be limited to Beam Arrays.
Turn Rate. NO CHANGE.
Mastery Passives. The Assault Cruiser would of course gain the Battle Cruiser mastery passives.
Hull. -10% Hull. Something has to give for the extra maneuverability.
Keep in mind, these are just my personal musings on one cup of coffee; and my thought processes are up and running at normal levels yet. And I do not expect any of these to amount to anything at all or than a cursory glance from the Devs.
Yuss!!!!
Tal'Shiar/Reman Resistance/Romulan Nemesis uniform, pls.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7403/13262502435_5604548f2c_o.png
Also they could add a design of the T6 Sovereign post nemesis with a neck. Maybe you could decide which Boff layout you want to use instead of there being variants of the T6 Sovereign? Either way I am fine with.
As for your proposed specs... this would never make it into the game, sorry to say.
The Hull strength seems a tad high, the Sovereign had Ablative armor but that's a console now so if we take that off it doesn't have the mass and bulk of other cruisers so 55,000@60 would be a more appropriate number.
The shield mod seems ok, the Sovereign always had powerful shields so that's fine.
Turn Rate, 8 would be more 'balanced' but it could sit at 9 and possibly get away with it...
5/5 weapons, this is where I almost fell out of my chair, this will never happen, all T5+ cruisers have 8 weapons, the only exception being the Galaxy Dreadnought and only if you count its Phaser Lance as a weapon and not an ability. Putting 10 weapons on a cruiser would make ALL other T5 - T6 cruisers obsolete and would undermine T6 ship sales of other cruisers, not to mention all the KDF and Romulan players who would scream "WHY DON'T WE HAVE SOMETHING WITH THIS MUCH FIREPOWER?!?". Agreed the tech specs of the Sovereign show more than 8 weapons, but if the developers took canon specs and put them directly in STO, imagine how many weapons a Scimitar would have... in a word: Yikes!
Console slots, you've seem to have done the math wrong, 12 consoles would make this effectively a Fleet Tier 7 ship, To elaborate, T5 ships have 9, Fleet T5 have 10, T5-U have 10 and Fleet T5-U have 11, T6 have 10 and Fleet T6 have 11, putting 12 on a ship would again make this an overpowered, unbalanced monster...
Cloaking on a Sovereign? I have to seriously disagree with this, while true in canon almost any ship can be equipped with a cloak in STO Starfleet is very strict as to which ships can use a cloak, Galaxy Dreadnought and Defiant because it was established in canon, Intel specialized ships because it makes sense to their function and then the Avenger, which I'm not sure... probably a marketing gimmick.
Saucer Separation? Interesting Idea, but there are many ships that already do that, and the Sovereign never did that on screen or even mentioned being able to do it.
As for the Armor, point defense, and secondary shields?
1. The Armor might be an interesting idea, I have no objections here.
2. The Thunderchild class already has Phaser point defense, which may be equipped on other ships.
3. The Scimitar has secondary shields, while I can see Starfleet trying to make use of the Tech I don't see it happening to the Sovereign.
The Regent comes standard with Metreon Gas canisters, and it can be equipped on other ships, so a T6 Sovereign shouldn't come with it standard.
I like the idea of a deployable Captain's Yacht, it would be very cool and canon since it was done in Insurrection, but might overlap with the Aero shuttle on the Pathfinder, I'd still love to use it, though
Hangar bay, the Sovereign does have a sizable shuttle bay so it could work, but the Galaxy has a larger main shuttle bay and
two other shuttle bays to add to it, so making the Galaxy a 'flight deck cruiser' would make more sense to me. But I would not object to a hangar on the Sovereign.
Bridge officer slots, Commander level specialized stations are reserved for specialized ships, ie. Presidio (command), and Eclipse (Intel), I could see a Lieutenant slot having a specialized station, likely command, I don't see the Sovereign as an Intel ship. Also, commander universal slots are generally reserved for Lockbox/lobi ships you'd be hard-pressed to find a Commander Universal station on any other ship. There is also a bit too much variance in your Bridge officer loadouts, bundle ships generally have the same bridge officer configurations, just different console layouts.
Finally, all this nit-picking aside I do understand your point, you want to see the Sovereign as a powerful beast in STO, I've felt this about a few ships myself, but this is a game and cannot have one 'all powerful' ship', it would create a serious imbalance in ship performance, not to mention everyone would be flying the exact same ship...
"The script for Star Trek: First Contact also gave Eaves(the ship designer) some important guidance. It described the Enterprise-E as a more advanced, faster ship that was designed to fight the Borg." See this...http://fsd.trekships.org/art/1701-e.html
This is why the crew was shocked when the Admiral kept them from the fight in First Contact.
She surely is a more battle oriented cruiser. This is why in game I think the Sov should have more teeth. If not the Sov, than definitely her successor the Ody.
The Ody would have had the same war based thinking and design as the Sov. With the Borg, Iconians, and the Voth, the Federation has more enemies than ever!
the sov has a HUGE blind spot do to it's recessed arrays on the saucer. it is unable to get both ventral and dorsal saucer arrays on the same target with out shooting it's self. the placement of the nacelles and the lack of dorsal coverage also creates some blind spots when a target is above and behind the ship. the galaxy does not have any of these issues able to fire both main saucer arrays at the same target and having complete coverage with all it's arrays with out any of the ship interfering especially the later venture refit with the nacelle mounted phaser strips.
the 100+ sciance labs was the E-D the E-D was one configuration. replace those labs with more shuttle or fighter launching capability (the dominion galaxies with the double decker main shuttle bay for ingoing and out going traffic. (stated as such by the FX arts and the producers of the show) something the sov does not have the room for so just not the galaxy the sov would also have to deal with fighter support.
the galaxy is a central command siege weapon functioning similar to a aircraft carrier fleet by it's self with the sov being more like maneuverable heavy cruiser. the ships are in different weight classes
I believe the Hero classes should be some of the best ships in the game. No, we are not asking for a "planet killer", but it should be very formidable. As they were in Canon. However, no smoking gun ships.
Captains yacht would be cool. It is larger than a runabout, too.
John Eaves did design saucer separation in anticipation of the need for it. It is similar to the Ody.
I agree with your opinion on the Scimitar. That would be insane.
If we are going to have a war with the Iconians....we need our T6 Hero ships!!!
A Doominion war Refit Galaxy fields increased defenses and was upgunned. Th Sovereign trades in "bulk" for agility. Trading in bulk means that taking hits degrades your ship faster since you have less bulk to absorb damage and all your systems are more tightly packed with literally less room for redundancy. (and lack of redundancy has screwed the pre-dominion refit Galaxy (Enterprise d) on several occasions. Remember that phaser coupling in yesterdays enterprise?
Yep. The 2 primary weapons in the galaxy's arsenal are the 2 main arrays on the saucer. And it proved that by basically popping that k'vort like an egg (just in time to get screwed over in generations, where a 12 year old scout ship the size of a pimple took that hit head on...).
Too bad the array went offline after that one power coupling it had failed. wut.
Redundancy. The Sovy has less because due to smaller bulk, everything is packed more densely, and with so many separate weapon bank... well its a tangled web of "please shoot me" systems.
+ THe sovys array emitters are of a higher mark, but smaller number....
Both ships would shoot each other to scraps, victor decided by who hit the warpcore ejection button first.
That being said:
The game "lore" has already moved on to the avenger, odyssey and cohorts.
So lets not use the words "most powerful <anything>" in these threads.
yay for a t6 assault cruiser.
yay for all iconic ships to get a t6.
And GOOD t6 cryptic (looks at the history of the Galaxy in cryptics hands).
Call it the Flagship pack or whatever you want. All the ships would be ones that previously carried the Enterprise name. (Not including alternate timeline/etc types.)
NX (Not gunna happen)
Constitution (I don't see this happening either, as they've said.)
Excelsior
Ambasador
Galaxy
Sovereign
Odyssey
Take out the original Enterprise and Connie and you get 4 canon ship upgrades and one from STO with the Ody.
Snag a few of the voice actors from each era, Kirk and Sulu for the Excelsior, Picard/etc for the Galaxy/Sovereign, make a mini episode out of it maybe tied to next years anniversary or something as a homage to Star Trek itself.
Money. Hand. Over. Fist.
the akira is only a carrier in sto. it was never a carrier in the show. it was a mobile artillery torpedo platform with side mounted torp launchers and the only ship to have tricobalts as standard compliment. this is form the FX staff
and we do see the galaxy fire both in DS9 during the war. and having 2 ventral and 2 dorsal arrays just drops it;s potential single shot damage by not being able to charge up all the emitters making the sov have less damage potential
That is a pretty good idea! They could make a ton of money on something like that. Everyone at Cryptic could get a pay raise on the amount of money they would make.
I don't see the NX-01 being T6...so maybe make it pre-Admiral level. I don't see T6 in the Conny's future either.
All the other ships...T6 for sure. However, you would have the make each ship have some pretty unique abilities. Maybe give each one a more specialized role with specific consoles and ship modifiers. Also, some get hangers or perhaps a captains yacht.
The voiceovers....you are talking big money for William Shatner and Sir Patrick Stewart. I don't see it. They are definitely of a different caliber than the voiceovers in game currently with the exception of Spock/Leonard Nimoy. It is doable, but would depend on two things...the money and the actors. I am sure the Devs would jump at the chance to add them in...they claim to be fans.
However, at this timeline, Picard is an Ambassador to Vulcan and Kirk is gone. I could see using Kirk in a time travel mission. They had Spock do a hail in one of the time travel missions already in game. Picard could be a story arc involving Vulcan or again a time travel mission (Maybe we could get a story post Nemesis with the Enterprise-E). They could also try getting Brent Spiner and have him reprise his role as Data/B4 and create the story how/why the Enterprise-E got replaced.
Some voiceovers from some of the major characters would be very nice.
Your proposed stats had absolutely no sense, no moderation, zero sense of balance, to include even features that were never shown to be used with the Sovereign-class in canon.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
SUPPORTING PLAYABLE CARDASSIAN AND DOMINION FACTIONS!
A tier 6 Sovereign is perfectly viable but with 5 fore and 5 aft weapon slots?...
And people say that us Galaxy fans are demanding because we wanted a fourth tactical slot.
a cruiser with those stats and 10 weapon slots would make every other ship in the game obsolete.
Now who is being ridiculous? :rolleyes:
This, pretty much. The Sov was pretty clearly intended to be a successor to the Excelsior as the fleet's standard heavy cruiser (whereas the GCS is a flagship-level command vessel TRIBBLE line battleship); in fact I believe that was stated by the producers. All it was was the newest ship class in the fleet at the time.
This is not opposition to a T6 Sov in general, just a debunk of several statements made. And as stated, A) it's a cruiser, not a battlecruiser, and 5/5 weapons is ridiculous--not even the Scimitar gets that.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You can see the very predictable evolution for them all.
Intrepid
Galaxy
Negh'Var
D'Deridex
5 forward weapons and 5 aft weapons on a T6 Sovereign? Lay down the crack pipe.
Sec. deflector is only for sci ships...
T6 ok but all other options no.
It might become the game's Pilot Cruiser, though, together with the Vor'cha on KDF side.
Making it the most spectacularly maneuverable cruisers in game.
After the T6 Defiant of course.
Defiant should have at least a LC pilot station, the Sovereign at least a lt, but would be allright with pilot station being a secondary one.
The Galaxy threads were about how ****ty the boff layout was. That got fixed now.
+ a high quality model was added. (KUDOS FOR THAT)
The Defiant and sovereign are naturally also due their t6 debut, and i would hope we also see more romulan and klingon ships (t6 k'vort?).
The sovy always had a rock solid boff layout, especially the regent and fleet variant so i guess we can expect a ltcom/eng/pilot seating, and perhaps also a redone model.
The defiant might trade in that superfluous ensign tac for something cool instead and get a hybrid tac/pilot ltc.
Do not derail the thread with endless debates abut which ship has the bigger peen, because that contest is automatically won by the Galaxy, HEHE. As a movie ship, the E always suffers the "why do we not see this awesome thing around anywhere else?" syndrome. Who led the charge in Sacrifice of angels? Yes. The Battering ram, err Galaxy class. Who rolled over chintoka? Galaxy's did.
hehe.. But seriously: yay for t6 everything. Now that i have my galaxy, how can i come and block other people dream ships.
High quality nebula anyone? perhaps... with a dyson role change mode? ^^
Sounds like talk from a suit who has grossly underestimated the value of the Galaxy class. (dil exchange exploded from 190 to 235 in one day I WONDER WHY DERP) I'm shocked that they keep cranking out interiors for shows like DS9, a show they don't give a TRIBBLE about, or the connie, a ship they don't want you to play, but they won't do one for the Ship the rabid player base foams at the mouth for.
ds9 is a social zoen and also missions take place there. Naturally its gonna get overhauls. ESD got one too. And it turned out awesome. ^^
AS for galaxy interiors? Only when there will be missions featuring those locales i reckon. AKA: never. ^^