T5-U is T6 capability. You get the ship that levels up with you (from 50-60) and the ship Mastery Track.
Please, tell us all how the T5-U Scimitar isn't T6 capable.
Ship Mastery != 'T6 capable'
T6 is 'an entirely different class of ship.' Remember?! Like Intel and Command. Please, tell us all how the T5-U Scimitar is 'an entirely different class of ship' from the regular Scimitar (different class, mind you, not just different ship).
No offense, y'all, but 'T6 capable' is the greatest crock since 'HD-Ready.' :P
Oh, I'm sure most of the angry owners of the now outdated T5-U JHAS would love to buy the Strike Ship.
The thing is, they can't.
Not without being filthy rich or incredibly lucky a second time.
I am the owner of an outdated jhas... I am angry but not because my jhas is now outdated.
when I acquired my jhas I was aware one day it would be outdated... the xindi escort outclassed it. I am angry because just a few months after they released the xindi, they start selling new t6 ships. They told us upgrading a t5 ship would make it still competitive with t6 ships... that is not true at all. I am angry also because they are releasing new ships faster and faster... since my t5u ships were outdated (no ship traits, no new abilities, not able to resist to new abilities...) I bought the delta pack... just a few weeks and we had a new specialization and new ships are needed to use them.
Yes the lie about a full upgrade to t6 offend me and make me more angry... but what make me really mad is that I love escorts but they make cannons fresh water compared to what you can do with cruisers and faw... and now they are trying to sell a new t6 jh ship lying you about how powerfull it is... every good player know that every faw build can outclass every cannons build on that ship and using a faw build on that ship will be a huge waste of resources because you can do the same or better using another cheaper ship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
If you guys try to sue cryptic because butyurhonur theysaidmybugshipteesixbuhinsteditjusteefiveyoo please, *please* let us know how to follow the progress and see court docs and stuff
Funny you should put it like that, because 'your honor', Cryptic, is really what's all about. Nobody's gonna sue anyone, of course, and make a giant fool of themselves. Nevertheless, they explicitely promised Bug ship owners (not me, btw) would get a free T6 Upgraded ship once T6 would hit the game. And then their Grand Renegus saw an opportunity to make even moar money, later on, and made it T5-U only, after all.
Being capable of something doesn't mean that you're equal to it.
Here's the definition of capable.
1. having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing.
2. able to achieve efficiently whatever one has to do; competent.
Which is exactly what T5-U ships can do, they are capable of completing content like a T6 ship, but they are not equal to a T6 ship.
No where did the Devs say that "YES YOU GET T6 SHIP", they said...
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, owners of this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
All lockbox/lobi store owners did get a free T5-U upgrade, which made them T6 Capable.
Which is exactly what T5-U ships can do, they are capable of completing content like a T6 ship, but they are not equal to a T6 ship.
Yeah, no. Seriously. Apples and Oranges. You're confusing 'still being competitive' with 'T6 Capable.' The latter can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it must, even to the smallest degree, be 'Capable' of doing 'T6'.
They didn't say you will get a ''T6 Comparable' ship. Show me the 'Tier 6 starship capabilities' of the Bug ship, or for ever hold your tongue. :P
Yeah, no. Seriously. Apples and Oranges. You're confusing 'still being competitive' with 'T6 Capable.' The latter can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it must, even to the smallest degree, be 'Capable' of doing 'T6'.
They didn't say you will get a ''T6 Comparable' ship. Show me the 'Tier 6 starship capabilities' of the Bug ship, or for ever hold your tongue. :P
This is the entire crux of the issue... Owners of the JHAS have latched onto a single word as the entire basis for their justifications...
I'd like to see a full write up, and not some off-the-cuff forum comment, where JHAS owners were promised that the JHAS would be upgraded to T6, and not receive a free T5U upgrade in-line with virtually all other special reward, event and lobi vessels...
I'd also like to see an official write up where a free upgrade of the JHAS to T6 was promised without the footnote that the situation was subject to change - like is usually in the foot note of every advance announcement of new ships etc...
Truth is, you weren't promised anything more than you have received... Time to suck it up and move on...
Yeah, no. Seriously. Apples and Oranges. You're confusing 'still being competitive' with 'T6 Capable.' The latter can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it must, even to the smallest degree, be 'Capable' of doing 'T6'.
They didn't say you will get a ''T6 Comparable' ship. Show me the 'Tier 6 starship capabilities' of the Bug ship, or for ever hold your tongue. :P
Here's the definition of capable.
1. having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing.
2. able to achieve efficiently whatever one has to do; competent.
Is a T5-U ship capable of getting their owner from level 50 to 60 and compete in all end game content?
im am going to say this the stats are **** on the T6 JHSA not worth my buy tbh i can use my T5u aventine,elachi esscort better then that crappy T6 JHAS so good luck with selling that
This is the entire crux of the issue... Owners of the JHAS have latched onto a single word as the entire basis for their justifications...
I'd like to see a full write up, and not some off-the-cuff forum comment, where JHAS owners were promised that the JHAS would be upgraded to T6, and not receive a free T5U upgrade in-line with virtually all other special reward, event and lobi vessels...
I'd also like to see an official write up where a free upgrade of the JHAS to T6 was promised without the footnote that the situation was subject to change - like is usually in the foot note of every advance announcement of new ships etc...
Truth is, you weren't promised anything more than you have received... Time to suck it up and move on...
The text noted was not just a forum post - it was in the news article concerning a round of the JHAS doff pack promo. Scroll to the bottom of the article.
Quote: "With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
And it was bolded for emphasis at that.
Nowhere in the article does it say "subject to change". And this is a dev blog/official article, not some "off-the-cuff forum comment" that you seem to think it was.
It sure gives the feeling that they were just saying this to assure people that the JHAS would hold its value, and make sure people would continue to purchase the packs.
What exactly is meant by "T6 capabilities", however, is up to interpretation.
So people paid real money for a gamble ship. It says on the tin it is a gamble ship. Time passes and a new version comes out. Now people want their gamble ship upgraded for free?
The biggest issue with the way Cryptic are going is that the 'time passes' that you mention is getting shorter and shorter.
The bugship was awesome for YEARS. This is why it held its value for so long.
Ever since Delta Rising the churn has increased drastically and ships are getting outclassed in months. These ships are not cheap, whether they be C-store $120 purchases or Gamble box $wtf?! purchases. Paying all that money for something you will get years of 'use' out of is not that bad. Turn those years into months and it suddenly becomes TOO expensive.
Like alot of players have already stated, you currently don't NEED the latest and greatest - my old JHAS still performs mightily in everything I do with it. But, for Cryptic to sell new shinies they are relying on the MMO mentality of 'gotta be as good as I can be'. Everything since DR (expense and randomness of quality upgrades, insanely long spec point grind, ridiculous pace of outclassing ships) is at direct odds with this mentality as it gets players asking the question - 'is this all really worth it'?
And I am afraid the answer for me and alot of players I know is no.
I used to be a whale, dropping cash on this game as if I were buying a new AAA title every month (because I didn't buy those games - I just played this one). But now my wallet is firmly closed until I see a change in this new modus operandi.
What bothers me more is that it is another alien ship we already have 50% of the playerbase flying in alien ships around and most of them from declared enemys of the federation or empire what makes it even worse ...
What exactly is meant by "T6 capabilities", however, is up to interpretation.
Again, this is the million dollar question...
Given this post is from August 15, whilst T5U was not detailed until August 27 (link), it would seem that Cryptic were still defining what T5U was all about and what ships would get what options...
Again, as I said, the crux of the issue is that JHAS owners have latched onto a single word and given it the meaning that is in their best interests...
Something else I'll just highlight from the T5U announcement :
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers, Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
The JHAS, at the time, was a Duty Officer Promotional Starship as per the page in question...
They could have went back and edited the promo page... they choose not to as they where detailing T6 in blogs before the promo ended, and new it would impact there sales. So they choose to not edit the promo page that clearly has misleading information on it. Its a text book case of false advertising, they clearly had a plan to make the Attack ship a T5-U before the promotion ended... and choose to not print a retraction or update there advert. If they never released a T6 version, they could claim the T5-U version was the T6 Upgrade they where talking about before they nailed down the wording.
I doubt anyone takes them to court over it obviously... but we don't have to. The court of public opinion is good enough. I'll vote with my wallet.. which means uninstalling the game. I'm sure I won't be alone... and I don't care if I am really. Up to everyone to decide how much of this type of stuff they will put up with.
Except that it was worded in an extremely misleading way, and was never elaborated upon.
Matter of interpretation... 'Capabilities' could be interpreted as being on par, not exactly the same, but capable of performing to a similar level... Which T5U is more than capable of doing...
The way they marketed this was borderline lying, had they been a company on the high street they would have been sued and prosecuted, as that is unlikely to happen given the vagueness of internet law they can just about get away with it, for the moment.
No internet companies follow the same laws any anyone else selling or leasing anything else. I detailed the California laws they could be tasked on earlier... I'm not supposed to talk about it when they talk to us about it... however I will refrain from reposting it as it might be considered spamming I understand now.
The real issue is... they used vague wording which would mean it would be a judgement call and not a slam dunk for a judge. They also can obscure the actual cost of the item due to it being a gamble sale, where they are trading other items of value. If they had good lawyers they could argue the games economy and the other items involved in the transactions. If there lawyers didn't suck they could convince a judge that the ships have little real value. (or at least make a convincing argument) I guess the counter would involve evidence of the grey market sales of that item for real $... which a judge may or may not listen to.
Also from what I have read it would seem they have covered there rear sides on a few Californian statues either through smarts or dumb luck. I am no legal council in CA, however I would say what they could be tasked on would be civil court level and the best you could hope for would be a small reward and a small fine.
The only real solution really is to just not support them at all going forward. I hope CBS finds a new home for the IP, until then any of you staying have a good time, and I hope you have other games to enjoy as well.
Matter of interpretation... 'Capabilities' could be interpreted as being on par, not exactly the same, but capable of performing to a similar level... Which T5U is more than capable of doing...
So when they posted a T5-U blog a few days later... why did they not go back to the Promo blog that was still on the front page at the time... and edit that line to say T5-U ?
1.) Getting the T5 Bug Ship required a lot of resources or real money and time
2.) The T5 Bug Ship is bound to one character other than Zen Store Ships, they are an account unlock
3.) To get the JHAS Pets on the Dreadnought I had to open the Dreadnought on the same alt I have the Bug Ship
4.) To get the 2 Piece Set I had to open the Heavy Escort Carrier on the same alt I have the Dreadnought
5.) To get the 3 piece set I have to open the T6 Bug Ship on the same alt I have the T5 Bug Ship
Matter of interpretation... 'Capabilities' could be interpreted as being on par, not exactly the same, but capable of performing to a similar level... Which T5U is more than capable of doing...
It's almost like people have no idea what the definition of capable is. :rolleyes:
Im sorry is your tier 5 bug ship no longer able to do any damage?
Is it no longer able to do normal advanced and elite pve ques?
Is it no longer able to do missions?
this new bug ship doesn't make your worthless it just means your god like damage status may go down, so maybe people should realize that the biggest problem with this game is the obsession over how much damage you do.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
They could have went back and edited the promo page... they choose not to as they where detailing T6 in blogs before the promo ended, and new it would impact there sales. So they choose to not edit the promo page that clearly has misleading information on it. Its a text book case of false advertising, they clearly had a plan to make the Attack ship a T5-U before the promotion ended... and choose to not print a retraction or update there advert. If they never released a T6 version, they could claim the T5-U version was the T6 Upgrade they where talking about before they nailed down the wording.
This is conspiracy theorism at it's finest given people are constantly belittling Cryptic on the forums for TRIBBLE up their announcements and failing to update details, when copying and pasting older announcements for the same event...
I'd be more inclined to believe this was simply a case of not bothering, whether through general laziness or incompetence (take your pick), rather than a calculated decision and action on their part...
Matter of interpretation... 'Capabilities' could be interpreted as being on par, not exactly the same, but capable of performing to a similar level.
Like I told the other person, 'T6 capabilities' can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that a ship having those must, even to the smallest degree, be 'capable' of doing 'T6'. Like, for instance, 'EM64T capable' means your CPU *must* support 64-bit extensions; and not 'Why, it is actually just 32-bit, but performs just as good as 64-bit.' That is just bullocks.
Comments
Ship Mastery != 'T6 capable'
T6 is 'an entirely different class of ship.' Remember?! Like Intel and Command. Please, tell us all how the T5-U Scimitar is 'an entirely different class of ship' from the regular Scimitar (different class, mind you, not just different ship).
No offense, y'all, but 'T6 capable' is the greatest crock since 'HD-Ready.' :P
All T5-U ships can do the job of a T6, that is what having T6 capability means.
The bells and whistles (Meaning the Starship Trait and special Intel/Command seats) available to the T6 are nice, but still not needed.
Hahaha! Now you're *really* grasping for straws, are ya?
I am the owner of an outdated jhas... I am angry but not because my jhas is now outdated.
when I acquired my jhas I was aware one day it would be outdated... the xindi escort outclassed it. I am angry because just a few months after they released the xindi, they start selling new t6 ships. They told us upgrading a t5 ship would make it still competitive with t6 ships... that is not true at all. I am angry also because they are releasing new ships faster and faster... since my t5u ships were outdated (no ship traits, no new abilities, not able to resist to new abilities...) I bought the delta pack... just a few weeks and we had a new specialization and new ships are needed to use them.
Yes the lie about a full upgrade to t6 offend me and make me more angry... but what make me really mad is that I love escorts but they make cannons fresh water compared to what you can do with cruisers and faw... and now they are trying to sell a new t6 jh ship lying you about how powerfull it is... every good player know that every faw build can outclass every cannons build on that ship and using a faw build on that ship will be a huge waste of resources because you can do the same or better using another cheaper ship.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Funny you should put it like that, because 'your honor', Cryptic, is really what's all about. Nobody's gonna sue anyone, of course, and make a giant fool of themselves. Nevertheless, they explicitely promised Bug ship owners (not me, btw) would get a free T6 Upgraded ship once T6 would hit the game. And then their Grand Renegus saw an opportunity to make even moar money, later on, and made it T5-U only, after all.
Here's the definition of capable.
1. having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing.
2. able to achieve efficiently whatever one has to do; competent.
Which is exactly what T5-U ships can do, they are capable of completing content like a T6 ship, but they are not equal to a T6 ship.
No where did the Devs say that "YES YOU GET T6 SHIP", they said...
"With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, owners of this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
All lockbox/lobi store owners did get a free T5-U upgrade, which made them T6 Capable.
It was very expensive to get me the JHAS
now they release a better jem ship which u can let look like it WTF?
I have a list of reasons to spend money on this game and a list that says DONT
DONT is + 23 or somewhat
this counts to DONT
Yeah, no. Seriously. Apples and Oranges. You're confusing 'still being competitive' with 'T6 Capable.' The latter can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that it must, even to the smallest degree, be 'Capable' of doing 'T6'.
They didn't say you will get a ''T6 Comparable' ship. Show me the 'Tier 6 starship capabilities' of the Bug ship, or for ever hold your tongue. :P
This is the entire crux of the issue... Owners of the JHAS have latched onto a single word as the entire basis for their justifications...
I'd like to see a full write up, and not some off-the-cuff forum comment, where JHAS owners were promised that the JHAS would be upgraded to T6, and not receive a free T5U upgrade in-line with virtually all other special reward, event and lobi vessels...
I'd also like to see an official write up where a free upgrade of the JHAS to T6 was promised without the footnote that the situation was subject to change - like is usually in the foot note of every advance announcement of new ships etc...
Truth is, you weren't promised anything more than you have received... Time to suck it up and move on...
Here's the definition of capable.
1. having the ability, fitness, or quality necessary to do or achieve a specified thing.
2. able to achieve efficiently whatever one has to do; competent.
Is a T5-U ship capable of getting their owner from level 50 to 60 and compete in all end game content?
Yes.
T6 Capability proven.
The text noted was not just a forum post - it was in the news article concerning a round of the JHAS doff pack promo. Scroll to the bottom of the article.
Link here: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/6007323-the-jem'hadar-attack-ship-returns!
Quote: "With the release of Star Trek Online: Delta Rising, this starship (either from this run of the promotion or from previous runs) will be upgradeable to Tier 6 starship capabilities at no cost."
And it was bolded for emphasis at that.
Nowhere in the article does it say "subject to change". And this is a dev blog/official article, not some "off-the-cuff forum comment" that you seem to think it was.
It sure gives the feeling that they were just saying this to assure people that the JHAS would hold its value, and make sure people would continue to purchase the packs.
What exactly is meant by "T6 capabilities", however, is up to interpretation.
The biggest issue with the way Cryptic are going is that the 'time passes' that you mention is getting shorter and shorter.
The bugship was awesome for YEARS. This is why it held its value for so long.
Ever since Delta Rising the churn has increased drastically and ships are getting outclassed in months. These ships are not cheap, whether they be C-store $120 purchases or Gamble box $wtf?! purchases. Paying all that money for something you will get years of 'use' out of is not that bad. Turn those years into months and it suddenly becomes TOO expensive.
Like alot of players have already stated, you currently don't NEED the latest and greatest - my old JHAS still performs mightily in everything I do with it. But, for Cryptic to sell new shinies they are relying on the MMO mentality of 'gotta be as good as I can be'. Everything since DR (expense and randomness of quality upgrades, insanely long spec point grind, ridiculous pace of outclassing ships) is at direct odds with this mentality as it gets players asking the question - 'is this all really worth it'?
And I am afraid the answer for me and alot of players I know is no.
I used to be a whale, dropping cash on this game as if I were buying a new AAA title every month (because I didn't buy those games - I just played this one). But now my wallet is firmly closed until I see a change in this new modus operandi.
...#LLAP...
Again, this is the million dollar question...
Given this post is from August 15, whilst T5U was not detailed until August 27 (link), it would seem that Cryptic were still defining what T5U was all about and what ships would get what options...
Again, as I said, the crux of the issue is that JHAS owners have latched onto a single word and given it the meaning that is in their best interests...
Something else I'll just highlight from the T5U announcement :
The JHAS, at the time, was a Duty Officer Promotional Starship as per the page in question...
I doubt anyone takes them to court over it obviously... but we don't have to. The court of public opinion is good enough. I'll vote with my wallet.. which means uninstalling the game. I'm sure I won't be alone... and I don't care if I am really. Up to everyone to decide how much of this type of stuff they will put up with.
Matter of interpretation... 'Capabilities' could be interpreted as being on par, not exactly the same, but capable of performing to a similar level... Which T5U is more than capable of doing...
No internet companies follow the same laws any anyone else selling or leasing anything else. I detailed the California laws they could be tasked on earlier... I'm not supposed to talk about it when they talk to us about it... however I will refrain from reposting it as it might be considered spamming I understand now.
The real issue is... they used vague wording which would mean it would be a judgement call and not a slam dunk for a judge. They also can obscure the actual cost of the item due to it being a gamble sale, where they are trading other items of value. If they had good lawyers they could argue the games economy and the other items involved in the transactions. If there lawyers didn't suck they could convince a judge that the ships have little real value. (or at least make a convincing argument) I guess the counter would involve evidence of the grey market sales of that item for real $... which a judge may or may not listen to.
Also from what I have read it would seem they have covered there rear sides on a few Californian statues either through smarts or dumb luck. I am no legal council in CA, however I would say what they could be tasked on would be civil court level and the best you could hope for would be a small reward and a small fine.
The only real solution really is to just not support them at all going forward. I hope CBS finds a new home for the IP, until then any of you staying have a good time, and I hope you have other games to enjoy as well.
So when they posted a T5-U blog a few days later... why did they not go back to the Promo blog that was still on the front page at the time... and edit that line to say T5-U ?
1.) Getting the T5 Bug Ship required a lot of resources or real money and time
2.) The T5 Bug Ship is bound to one character other than Zen Store Ships, they are an account unlock
3.) To get the JHAS Pets on the Dreadnought I had to open the Dreadnought on the same alt I have the Bug Ship
4.) To get the 2 Piece Set I had to open the Heavy Escort Carrier on the same alt I have the Dreadnought
5.) To get the 3 piece set I have to open the T6 Bug Ship on the same alt I have the T5 Bug Ship
So Cryptic have you thought about this at all?
It's almost like people have no idea what the definition of capable is. :rolleyes:
Is it no longer able to do normal advanced and elite pve ques?
Is it no longer able to do missions?
this new bug ship doesn't make your worthless it just means your god like damage status may go down, so maybe people should realize that the biggest problem with this game is the obsession over how much damage you do.
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
This is conspiracy theorism at it's finest given people are constantly belittling Cryptic on the forums for TRIBBLE up their announcements and failing to update details, when copying and pasting older announcements for the same event...
I'd be more inclined to believe this was simply a case of not bothering, whether through general laziness or incompetence (take your pick), rather than a calculated decision and action on their part...
No, I'd say people are just being selective as to the definition, and favouring the definition that is in their best interests...
Like I told the other person, 'T6 capabilities' can only ever mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that a ship having those must, even to the smallest degree, be 'capable' of doing 'T6'. Like, for instance, 'EM64T capable' means your CPU *must* support 64-bit extensions; and not 'Why, it is actually just 32-bit, but performs just as good as 64-bit.' That is just bullocks.