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T6 Jem'Hadar Attack Ship

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  • rybaksixrybaksix Member Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this outrage wouldn't be here at all had the ship that came out was the Battlecruiser and not a reskinned version of the JHAS.

    True, soooo true. Just another rushed decision.
  • sal1111sal1111 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    this outrage wouldn't be here at all had the ship that came out was the Battlecruiser and not a reskinned version of the JHAS.

    Correct. Because the wording they used was intended to be vague and allow them to pull what most of us have little doubt was an intended bait and switch.

    Had they done another ship right now they could still argue what was intended with "capabilities".

    They fell into the same trap Microsoft did with there Vista Capable kerfuffle. Using nebulous wording is something Tech companies seem to like doing. :)
  • rickpaaarickpaaa Member Posts: 637 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So people paid real money for a gamble ship. It says on the tin it is a gamble ship. Time passes and a new version comes out. Now people want their gamble ship upgraded for free? NO! The world doesn't work that way. Take your iPhone 6 and demand that Apple gives you the iPhone 7 that they are already making. Do it. You will be laughed out of the store by those that overheard your ridiculous demands.


    Bad analogy. If you want an iPhone 7, you pay for an iPhone 7... not a chance to get an iPhone 7. That difference is HUGE.
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    Member since December 2009


  • sal1111sal1111 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The analogies are all bad... this isn't like Iphone 6 users not getting iphone 7s ect.

    This is EXACTLY like Microsoft Vista.

    Where computer sales Nose dived for 6 months... cause they all had Windows XP on them and no one wanted to buy something with Windows XP cause Vista was coming and it had higher requirements.

    So in order to still sell what was on the shelf... Microsoft sold companies a sticker that said "Designed for Windows XP... Vista Capable" Then to make sure people didn't hold there money they said... Buy Windows XP now... and get a FREE upgrade to Windows Vista.

    They where sued by multiple people for multiple reasons.... Mostly;

    1) turns out most of the Vista capable machines where not capable of running vista at all
    2) the free upgrade wasn't always honored, and because vista branched out into 20 versions (slight exageration) many people that thought they where buying good copies of XP found out Microsoft thought they where equivalent to Vista basic... a complete piece of junk and pure rip off designed to make people spend more $.

    In this case... Cryptic has upgraded us to T5-U which you could liken to the Vista Basic upgrade many people got that was junk and wasn't capable of running more then 3 programs at once ect.

    They where also tasked on the Capable wording... cause well most people would assume a word like Capable means Capable.

    If the blog that said anything about T6 Capability upgrades never existed. There would be nothing to complain about.

    However performing an edit on the page 7 months later doesn't make it not exist. Just like Microsoft couldn't have gotten all those cases against them dismissed by going into peoples homes after the fact and ripping the stickers off there boxes. lmao
  • roadghostroadghost Member Posts: 394 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sal1111 wrote: »
    This is EXACTLY like Microsoft Vista.

    It is sounding like T6 is Vista.

    So

    T5 = XP - good
    Fleet T5 = XP SP2 - really good
    Fleet T5U = XP SP3 - even better
    T6 = Vista... ick!

    Guess we have to wait for T7 to get back on track.
  • sal1111sal1111 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    roadghost wrote: »
    It is sounding like T6 is Vista.

    So

    T5 = XP - good
    Fleet T5 = XP SP2 - really good
    Fleet T5U = XP SP3 - even better
    T6 = Vista... ick!

    Guess we have to wait for T7 to get back on track.

    lol ya... they won't get it right till T10... and by then we will all be running linux... er I mean Eve. :)
  • leceterleceter Member Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    ...
    No offense, y'all, but 'T6 capable' is the greatest crock since 'HD-Ready.' :P

    Brilliant analogy!


    My understanding of T6 class ship is

    a T5 ship plus
    1. scaling ship stats/console slots/seats (T5U&T6)
    2. mastery track (T5U&T6)
    3. ship trait (T6)
    4. specialization Boff seat (T6)

    Because of character bound ship traits, your ship does not need a trait to have the power or ability of a T6 ship

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/capability
    1. The power or ability to do something
    2. The extent of someone’s or something’s ability

    But everything else is needed, in particular specialized Boff seats. Without them, your ship does not have the extent of a T6 ship abilities.
  • dongemaharudongemaharu Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    They should just give all the entitled whiners...
    Well, we've gotten the overused "entitled" quota done for today. Maybe he can think of some other lazy arguments without that word. I kinda doubt it, though.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    leceter wrote: »
    Brilliant analogy!

    My understanding of T6 class ship is

    a T5 ship plus
    1. scaling ship stats/console slots/seats (T5U&T6)
    2. mastery track (T5U&T6)
    3. ship trait (T6)
    4. specialization Boff seat (T6)

    Especially the latter 2, like you say, truly, and exclusively, make a ship 'T6 Capable.'

    In all fairness to the EP, though, when T6 (and the updated status of the Bug ship) was being announced, Cryptic themselves hadn't really solidified all the definitions yet, nor had everything been decided upon yet, like whether existing lock box ships would be auto-converted to T6 as well, and/or if it would cost Zen doing so.
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  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Apologies are not valid legal defenses and yes it is an actual legal issue since real money is involved.

    They could have wiggled out of it somehow if this was given in an non-official out-of-context environment but if it's on the company page it's the company line.
    Which is why any profitable business would prefer to take the hit for damage control rather than the bigger hit for fraud and/or the label there of (would you buy anything from scammers?).
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  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I wanted to take a moment to respond to the concerns over the blog text from last year that mentioned that the T5 Jem’Hadar Attack Ship would be upgradable to T6 capability. That blog was originally written and released before the introduction of the concept of T5-U ships, so while we meant it could get upgraded to T5-U we couldn’t outright mention this new type of ship at that time. When we released the chart that explained which ships would receive the free upgrade to T5-U, the Jem’Hadar Attack Ship was listed among their ranks. We will be correcting the incorrect text from the original blog, and I would like to personally apologize for the misinformation.

    I hope I’ve helped to clear things up, and I will continue to work towards improving our communication with everyone in the community.

    Stephen Ricossa
    Executive Producer
    whatever the justification, i have certainly come to realise cryptic have no moral compass in the search for profit. i have altered my own spending and investment to reflect that reality.
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,404 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The "t-6 capabilities' issue was settled with the introduction of t5u. T5u ships have 't6 capabilities' such a scaling hulls, extra consoles, and mastery unlocks.

    I dont believe that the post originally stated 'all t6 capabilities' do you?

    This was an issue before t5-u was announced, it stopped being an issue then once it was explained.
    Then again, the update now says "T5-U capabilities". Since apparently "T6 capabilities /= T6", should we conclude "T5-U capabilities/=T5-U" and perhaps only means your T5 ship only gets the mastery unlocks, no boost in hull and no new console slot?
    #TASforSTO
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  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So you're going to sue them?

    It costs money to sue someone you know.

    Why pay a lawyer to get a judge to tell you that you're wrong, when I can tell you that you are wrong here for free?

    When the forum's raving dumbass calls me wrong i sleep soundly knowing i'm right. (Hello genocide fetishist)
    I've got a question for you though: when somethingawful assigns it's drones to an mmo does it send it's bottom feeders to STO?

    I've seen some hilariously good trolls in EVE online in comparison causing untold misery upon the server population.. you on the other hand seem to try so hard yet this is probably the best you can do.

    I will graciously give you some advice: strawman arguements only work if someone indulges you and as long as they don't realize it.
  • acidpresleyacidpresley Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The "t-6 capabilities' issue was settled with the introduction of t5u. T5u ships have 't6 capabilities' such a scaling hulls, extra consoles, and mastery unlocks.

    I dont believe that the post originally stated 'all t6 capabilities' do you?

    This was an issue before t5-u was announced, it stopped being an issue then once it was explained.

    FYI, in the German Dev-Blog was announct "Klasse 6" (Tier6), not one word of capabilities, full T6. So...
  • theredcomettheredcomet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    EU's stronger on consumer rights to boot. (which is one of the few positive things i have to say about it)
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  • acidpresleyacidpresley Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Can you find a link to that? My guess is they wouldn't have yet changed it in German, this is very interesting.

    They already changed it, but this was the original line:
    "Mit dem Launch von Star Trek Online: Delta Rising k
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  • acidpresleyacidpresley Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    So if my rusty German is right this translates to:

    In Delta Rising this ship can ( whether from this or a previous action ) upgrade at no extra cost to a class (read tier) 6 ship.

    The word "F
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  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    im not sure what all the lawsuit talk is about, but its worth noting that courts arent bound by eulas nor tos.

    i do recall secondlife getting its TRIBBLE handed to it by a resident in court in some virtual land dispute. that resident happened to be an attorney.
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  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    STO is vastly different, because it is impossible to claim any sort of,property interest in your virtual goods, they are Cryptic's property and have no monetary value because they can't be sold.

    For what it's worth, cryptic doesn't sell bug ships, it sells zen.

    Courts are not "bound" by agreements people make, like EULAs or ToS agreements, but the people who agree to them often are.

    thats what cryptic would assert, but it hasnt exactly passed a legal challenge.
    people cannot be bound by terms that forbid them from trying to assert legal rights. thats internet lawyer 101
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  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    If in order to play my video game you have to agree that you assume no property interest in my intellectual property by playing the game, and you agree to it, I don't think there is a basis to claim that you have any legal right to assert a property interest in my intellectual property because you played my game.

    ...and that is something a court would need to decide on, and a court could very well say 'stuff your eula' and find against cryptic.
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