I'm just going to weigh in here for once. I used to play the game a lot back in 2012/2013, but as time wore on I got more and more upset at the constant feeling that the devs were trying to suck my wallet out from under my butt every time I sat down to play the game.
I recently came back to the game because a few of my friends started playing it, and decided to read up on the game news before returning after the sour taste the last time left me with, reading about the "free upgrades" and specifically being able to make the bug "t6 compatable" I was under the impression that Cryptic was going to at least try to deliver us a more STAR TREK feel. that is to say I hoped to be able to play without getting the feeling that someone was trying to cop a feel on my wallet every few minutes. I tried to give the game a second chance. It did not even take a week of playing before I realized that it was a big mistake.
I understand that cryptic needs to generate profit and that they do not have subscription fees to do so but LOOK at the models other games are using to make money without a subscription fee. Take Guild Wars 2 for example, it does not penalize a player for not spending money and is making a tidy profit. I guess I'm just upset that STO does not "feel" like it has anything to do with the Federation, a people who see greed as generally repugnant and unacceptable would not approve of the kind of marketing and customer relations that I'm seeing here on STO. For me that is too immersion breaking and just plain disappointing to tolerate.
Maybe expecting a level of ethical conduct that is consistent with the IP being used to make the money is too much to ask. I hope that a few months to a year from now I can come back to the game and see a player community and developer community that feels as warm, welcoming, accepting and generally pro enjoyment (or maybe as Federation like) as I have encountered in other MMOS. I do not appreciate being lied to about the bug ship and will not be bilked like some rube, and IMO this behavior is tantamount to spitting on the very IP being used as a cash cow.
I'm just going to weigh in here for once. I used to play the game a lot back in 2012/2013, but as time wore on I got more and more upset at the constant feeling that the devs were trying to suck my wallet out from under my butt every time I sat down to play the game.
I recently came back to the game because a few of my friends started playing it, and decided to read up on the game news before returning after the sour taste the last time left me with, reading about the "free upgrades" and specifically being able to make the bug "t6 compatable" I was under the impression that Cryptic was going to at least try to deliver us a more STAR TREK feel. that is to say I hoped to be able to play without getting the feeling that someone was trying to cop a feel on my wallet every few minutes. I tried to give the game a second chance. It did not even take a week of playing before I realized that it was a big mistake.
I understand that cryptic needs to generate profit and that they do not have subscription fees to do so but LOOK at the models other games are using to make money without a subscription fee. Take Guild Wars 2 for example, it does not penalize a player for not spending money and is making a tidy profit. I guess I'm just upset that STO does not "feel" like it has anything to do with the Federation, a people who see greed as generally repugnant and unacceptable would not approve of the kind of marketing and customer relations that I'm seeing here on STO. For me that is too immersion breaking and just plain disappointing to tolerate.
Maybe expecting a level of ethical conduct that is consistent with the IP being used to make the money is too much to ask. I hope that a few months to a year from now I can come back to the game and see a player community and developer community that feels as warm, welcoming, accepting and generally pro enjoyment (or maybe as Federation like) as I have encountered in other MMOS. I do not appreciate being lied to about the bug ship and will not be bilked like some rube, and IMO this behavior is tantamount to spitting on the very IP being used as a cash cow.
Added paragraphs so I could actually read it, no offense intended but it is impossible to read without them.
now that this JHAS 2.0 has been released, what should i do with my old JHAS? throw to the garbage the most expensive ship in the game history? LOL
At least gives us the chance to upgrade it...
now that this JHAS 2.0 has been released, what should i do with my old JHAS? throw to the garbage the most expensive ship in the game history? LOL
At least gives us the chance to upgrade it...
You can upgrade it! I upgraded mine to T6... Oops I mean T5-U :rolleyes:
Well I maxed out three credit cards but I finally got my shiny new JHSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd say I far ahead of the game at this point!
i got mine 3 min after the servers came up yesterday...I think the 3rd or 4th to get it. I opened the boxes on a level 6...several ppl did this and got the JHSS
now that this JHAS 2.0 has been released, what should i do with my old JHAS? throw to the garbage the most expensive ship in the game history?
Thats probably what they're hoping for. Throw away your old perfectly good stuff to buy the new one all over again with just a minor tweak. People wanted 'growth' and 'progression' and Moar Powah!!! Look at all those threads of people offering another $30 a pop for ships they already own with one more boff slot. They're getting the game and business model they asked for.
The funny part are the ones who think that because they paid with dil they aren't financially supporting the game's current direction. They traded for zen, and that zen came form somewhere.
I wanted to take a moment to respond to the concerns over the blog text from last year that mentioned that the T5 Jem’Hadar Attack Ship would be upgradable to T6 capability. That blog was originally written and released before the introduction of the concept of T5-U ships, so while we meant it could get upgraded to T5-U we couldn’t outright mention this new type of ship at that time. When we released the chart that explained which ships would receive the free upgrade to T5-U, the Jem’Hadar Attack Ship was listed among their ranks. We will be correcting the incorrect text from the original blog, and I would like to personally apologize for the misinformation.
I hope I’ve helped to clear things up, and I will continue to work towards improving our communication with everyone in the community.
Stephen Ricossa
Executive Producer
Word of advise Mr EP....if you don't have anything to offer or contribute better just keep quiet. Silence is so much better than an empty apology.
Learn from Dstahl...when he apologized for errors and took ownership:
Not telling you how to run your business but this was a bit too lacking from a MR EP. Great that you owned the error. However, those who do own the old bug were disenfranchised and felt as if insulted a second time. Not speaking for anyone else but me. However, I sympathize with the majority of the views expressed here.
I think Antonio did a wonderful summary and will leave at that:
The point is you could have changed it the moment you decided T5-U was what it was getting. Which clearly happened before the promo ended... and while the promo page with the t6 info still a front page item.
There where also threads like this one on the forums at the time....
No one came in and said... oh hey guys we have seen some misinformation here let us clear it up and edit the blog page.
I mean read this random post from that thread, and then tell me you guys didn't make money you shouldn't have off that promo. Its this type of stuff that makes players honestly hate you guys.
Now though months later, and at a point where you want to sell more ships once again and need I guess a sales bump for the end of the quarter. You will try and put this out with an edit to a blog post advertising a promo that has been over for 9 months. Was it the general outrage... or the quoting of Legal Statues your company was in violation of that had you think EDIT ya EDIT will work.
PS in case you didn't notice... your edit 9 months later has annoyed me as much as anything that has happened previously.
If anyone else wishes to start a civil complain in the US fee free to use:
Not telling you how to run your business but this was a bit too lacking from a MR EP. Great that you owned the error. However, those who do own the old bug were disenfranchised and felt as if insulted a second time. Not speaking for anyone else but me. However, I sympathize with the majority of the views expressed here.
Honestly, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If he did speak up, you have, what you call, an "empty apology". If he didn't, you and everyone else would have been screaming to the heavens and demanding an apology.
QUOTE If anyone else wishes to start a civil complain in the US fee free to use:
I must respectfully disagree that silence was the best answer here. Even though the answer is not what people want, since this guy seems to know how to speak without snark or pointing fingers to deflect attention away from himself, I say it IS better that he has spoken.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I got all Jem'Hadar ships before and today also got the new T6 bug after gambling without success for EC.
I can understand the OP and would like to note that it is a bad trend. T5U is a T 5 F*** Y** kind of upgrade when there is a T6 version of the very same ship. Even more so as the "Battleship" or "Cruiser" of the Jemmie line was missing. At the same time players wished for a "T6 version" of their favorite ships.
I hope Cryptic finds a better way to make money. The crafting promos offer 1 big prize and quite less than the lockboxes if you don't get lucky.
Let's don't sugarcoat it, T6 is meant to make people buy new ships. But if people already bought the T5/T5U version years before I really would like to ask for sustantial rebate to acquire the T6 version and/or the possibility to upgrade the old ship for a fair price.
I think the game is improving and getting better for quite some time by now, even less do I understand the ever more aggressive attempts at monetization. It might rather drive away potential players and income than it is enticing me and other long time players to pay even more than we are already used to do.
How is anyone surprised by this? With the lack luster Delta Rising, and the immediate release of T6 ships for upwards of a full day's wage, you expected a full upgrade on this ship, for free?
Star Trek Online makes it's money on selling ships for players to use within the increasingly limited content of the game world. They won't be giving anything away for free, if it's widely popular and sought after.
I think Antonio did a wonderful summary and will leave at that:
Careful the omnipresent Q account has been busy... and i think Antonio might have went poof over saying that. Not saying the new EP is vindictive but could be. lol
Honestly, if you're running to the BBB over game pixels, you might want to start thinking about where your priorities lay.
Business is business... your statement makes about as much sense as saying people shouldn't go to the BBB if a Theater or sports franchise where at fault of bad practices.
I don't think it matters if the business is one selling recreational / entertainment services or something more essential.
The EP didn't go far enough but at least he apologized within a reasonable amount of time. That's more than can be said of Geko who would let the forums meltdown and inevitably taco had to swoop in and save the day. This is definitely an improvement in communication but by no means is it enough. Try actually proofreading blogs for once and send them around to various STo teams to get their input on them. Also, don't edit old blogs because it makes you look guiltier. Own up to the issue and take some responsibility.
But if people already bought the T5/T5U version years before I really would like to ask for sustantial rebate to acquire the T6 version and/or the possibility to upgrade the old ship for a fair price.
I'm liking this idea, as it's inevitable newer and shinier ships keep coming, allowing customers who already went for their recurring grand show-prize promo a substantialy reduced-cost upgrade path towards the replacement ship. Equitable for all.
The EP didn't go far enough but at least he apologized within a reasonable amount of time. That's more than can be said of Geko who would let the forums meltdown and inevitably taco had to swoop in and save the day. This is definitely an improvement in communication but by no means is it enough. Try actually proofreading blogs for once and send them around to various STo teams to get their input on them. Also, don't edit old blogs because it makes you look guiltier. Own up to the issue and take some responsibility.
That's true. At least they edited the blog within 7 months. There blogs constitute an advertisement, by not printing a retraction when they changed how they planned to provide the goods in question. (if we are to believe they didn't already have a plan when they printed that R&D promo) It falls into the category of false advertising. It doesn't matter that it is a blog post and not a flyer stuffed into peoples mailboxes. The company (and I don't care if the person in charge changed) is legally in the wrong on this one. We can debate how minor it is or isn't... regardless, brick and mortar retailers in most districts would be required to honor the advertisement, had they not clearly printed a retraction, and made people aware of said retraction before there purchase of effected goods.
Going back and changing the advert 7 months later is hardly in keeping with the law in most states. (I'm not sure its in keeping in any states)
That's true. At least they edited the blog within 7 months. There blogs constitute an advertisement, by not printing a retraction when they changed how they planned to provide the goods in question. (if we are to believe they didn't already have a plan when they printed that R&D promo) It falls into the category of false advertising. It doesn't matter that it is a blog post and not a flyer stuffed into peoples mailboxes. The company (and I don't care if the person in charge changed) is legally in the wrong on this one. We can debate how minor it is or isn't... regardless, brick and mortar retailers in most districts would be required to honor the advertisement, had they not clearly printed a retraction, and made people aware of said retraction before there purchase of effected goods.
Going back and changing the advert 7 months later is hardly in keeping with the law in most states. (I'm not sure its in keeping in any states)
Yeah but they will never ever compensate for it.
That would be reasonable.
They should just give all the entitled whiners the T6 upgrade for free only to already-opened JHAS (and it would be a stealth update; so as to not allow people to pop open any last-minute JHAS boxes in anticipation), BUT WITHOUT the JHSS skin and WITHOUT the console. Maybe without the Intel Hybrid as well, since T6 only requires one Hybrid seat.
After all, those aren't T6 equivalent capabilities; those are just bonuses, and all the crying is over wanting their damned Starship Mastery Trait, a Hybrid seat, and a 13th seat.
I would also enjoy further schadenfreude if they charged an extra 3000 Zen to unlock the console and skin per character, with the requirement being that they must have the existing JHAS in their ship reserve if Cryptic stealth updates the JHAS to allow for a very basic upgrade to T6.
Sure, some will just be happy, others will still throw a tantrum they're not effectively given a JHSS for free, but if they want to play the word game, Cryptic can as well and give them the bare minimum.
Off-topic: Post 343. I don't have a Guilty Spark though; just a cup of schadenfreude.
Sure, some will just be happy, others will still throw a tantrum they're not effectively given a JHSS for free, but if they want to play the word game, Cryptic can as well and give them the bare minimum.
I think that would make most people happy.
I only own one bug... and I could care less frankly even the upgraded version is useless in the current game. Its the principle I think in this case for most people that already own one. Most that do don't really fly them anymore, there outdated including the new version.
Yes I agree there are some complaining cause they have a bank full of a handful of the old ones still. Frankly though I don't think many people have sympathy for those folks. Part of holding things, waiting for the right time to sell is knowing when its time to dump. I think many of us realized that long ago... I dumped mine back in Jan. lmao
I can't believe anyone that was patient enough and smart enough to hold them wasn't smart enough to see this coming really.
On this one they need to give the old one... at least one seat, and the trait. That's all, there not required to give it consoles and skins, there not understood to be a T6 thing. To be honest based on other older blogs they could even get away with leaving the seating alone, although just adding the seating and traits would hardly hurt there sales. Which is clearly the only deciding factor.
I just want to see what is going to happen to Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser...
They already established the precedence with this JHA(S)S
On a side note... Cryptic for the love of Trek, first misleading info on the dill weekend, now on this T6 capability upgrade, in both cases you have changed the info post factum ... This is not good business practice. I wish more people would visit the forums and voice their opinion.
At this moment I've lost all trust I had left in people making decisions regarding this game.
I wish more people would visit the forums and voice their opinion.
Going by their unofficial forum (Reddit), they've taken it pretty well, all things considered (with some valid points as well). Didn't bother to check Twitter.
Comments
If anything this bug is more like a T5.85 at most
The 4 fore, 3 aft weapon lay is just a big no for a T6 escort
I don't wanna chain it. I want to use the supremacy train with ss
The Trait will be... for use on other ships.
I recently came back to the game because a few of my friends started playing it, and decided to read up on the game news before returning after the sour taste the last time left me with, reading about the "free upgrades" and specifically being able to make the bug "t6 compatable" I was under the impression that Cryptic was going to at least try to deliver us a more STAR TREK feel. that is to say I hoped to be able to play without getting the feeling that someone was trying to cop a feel on my wallet every few minutes. I tried to give the game a second chance. It did not even take a week of playing before I realized that it was a big mistake.
I understand that cryptic needs to generate profit and that they do not have subscription fees to do so but LOOK at the models other games are using to make money without a subscription fee. Take Guild Wars 2 for example, it does not penalize a player for not spending money and is making a tidy profit. I guess I'm just upset that STO does not "feel" like it has anything to do with the Federation, a people who see greed as generally repugnant and unacceptable would not approve of the kind of marketing and customer relations that I'm seeing here on STO. For me that is too immersion breaking and just plain disappointing to tolerate.
Maybe expecting a level of ethical conduct that is consistent with the IP being used to make the money is too much to ask. I hope that a few months to a year from now I can come back to the game and see a player community and developer community that feels as warm, welcoming, accepting and generally pro enjoyment (or maybe as Federation like) as I have encountered in other MMOS. I do not appreciate being lied to about the bug ship and will not be bilked like some rube, and IMO this behavior is tantamount to spitting on the very IP being used as a cash cow.
EDIT: followed Mewi's paragraph structure*
Added paragraphs so I could actually read it, no offense intended but it is impossible to read without them.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
At least gives us the chance to upgrade it...
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
You can upgrade it! I upgraded mine to T6... Oops I mean T5-U :rolleyes:
No offense taken, applied your structure to my post as an edit, thanks.
i got mine 3 min after the servers came up yesterday...I think the 3rd or 4th to get it. I opened the boxes on a level 6...several ppl did this and got the JHSS
I can't promise that they are perfect paragraphs, I sort of just guessed XD
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Thats probably what they're hoping for. Throw away your old perfectly good stuff to buy the new one all over again with just a minor tweak. People wanted 'growth' and 'progression' and Moar Powah!!! Look at all those threads of people offering another $30 a pop for ships they already own with one more boff slot. They're getting the game and business model they asked for.
The funny part are the ones who think that because they paid with dil they aren't financially supporting the game's current direction. They traded for zen, and that zen came form somewhere.
Word of advise Mr EP....if you don't have anything to offer or contribute better just keep quiet. Silence is so much better than an empty apology.
Learn from Dstahl...when he apologized for errors and took ownership:
https://twitter.com/Cryptic_dStahl/status/268827702881042432
Or even the last EP (D'angelo) when they rectified Spec points and XP to the so called "exploiters":
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1282041
Not telling you how to run your business but this was a bit too lacking from a MR EP. Great that you owned the error. However, those who do own the old bug were disenfranchised and felt as if insulted a second time. Not speaking for anyone else but me. However, I sympathize with the majority of the views expressed here.
I think Antonio did a wonderful summary and will leave at that:
If anyone else wishes to start a civil complain in the US fee free to use:
BBB
At least that should get some attention.
Honestly, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If he did speak up, you have, what you call, an "empty apology". If he didn't, you and everyone else would have been screaming to the heavens and demanding an apology.
QUOTE If anyone else wishes to start a civil complain in the US fee free to use:
BBB
At least that should get some attention.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, if you're running to the BBB over game pixels, you might want to start thinking about where your priorities lay.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I can understand the OP and would like to note that it is a bad trend. T5U is a T 5 F*** Y** kind of upgrade when there is a T6 version of the very same ship. Even more so as the "Battleship" or "Cruiser" of the Jemmie line was missing. At the same time players wished for a "T6 version" of their favorite ships.
I hope Cryptic finds a better way to make money. The crafting promos offer 1 big prize and quite less than the lockboxes if you don't get lucky.
Let's don't sugarcoat it, T6 is meant to make people buy new ships. But if people already bought the T5/T5U version years before I really would like to ask for sustantial rebate to acquire the T6 version and/or the possibility to upgrade the old ship for a fair price.
I think the game is improving and getting better for quite some time by now, even less do I understand the ever more aggressive attempts at monetization. It might rather drive away potential players and income than it is enticing me and other long time players to pay even more than we are already used to do.
Star Trek Online makes it's money on selling ships for players to use within the increasingly limited content of the game world. They won't be giving anything away for free, if it's widely popular and sought after.
Careful the omnipresent Q account has been busy... and i think Antonio might have went poof over saying that. Not saying the new EP is vindictive but could be. lol
Business is business... your statement makes about as much sense as saying people shouldn't go to the BBB if a Theater or sports franchise where at fault of bad practices.
I don't think it matters if the business is one selling recreational / entertainment services or something more essential.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
I'm liking this idea, as it's inevitable newer and shinier ships keep coming, allowing customers who already went for their recurring grand show-prize promo a substantialy reduced-cost upgrade path towards the replacement ship. Equitable for all.
That's true. At least they edited the blog within 7 months. There blogs constitute an advertisement, by not printing a retraction when they changed how they planned to provide the goods in question. (if we are to believe they didn't already have a plan when they printed that R&D promo) It falls into the category of false advertising. It doesn't matter that it is a blog post and not a flyer stuffed into peoples mailboxes. The company (and I don't care if the person in charge changed) is legally in the wrong on this one. We can debate how minor it is or isn't... regardless, brick and mortar retailers in most districts would be required to honor the advertisement, had they not clearly printed a retraction, and made people aware of said retraction before there purchase of effected goods.
Going back and changing the advert 7 months later is hardly in keeping with the law in most states. (I'm not sure its in keeping in any states)
Yeah but they will never ever compensate for it.
That would be reasonable.
After all, those aren't T6 equivalent capabilities; those are just bonuses, and all the crying is over wanting their damned Starship Mastery Trait, a Hybrid seat, and a 13th seat.
I would also enjoy further schadenfreude if they charged an extra 3000 Zen to unlock the console and skin per character, with the requirement being that they must have the existing JHAS in their ship reserve if Cryptic stealth updates the JHAS to allow for a very basic upgrade to T6.
Sure, some will just be happy, others will still throw a tantrum they're not effectively given a JHSS for free, but if they want to play the word game, Cryptic can as well and give them the bare minimum.
Off-topic: Post 343. I don't have a Guilty Spark though; just a cup of schadenfreude.
I think that would make most people happy.
I only own one bug... and I could care less frankly even the upgraded version is useless in the current game. Its the principle I think in this case for most people that already own one. Most that do don't really fly them anymore, there outdated including the new version.
Yes I agree there are some complaining cause they have a bank full of a handful of the old ones still. Frankly though I don't think many people have sympathy for those folks. Part of holding things, waiting for the right time to sell is knowing when its time to dump. I think many of us realized that long ago... I dumped mine back in Jan. lmao
I can't believe anyone that was patient enough and smart enough to hold them wasn't smart enough to see this coming really.
On this one they need to give the old one... at least one seat, and the trait. That's all, there not required to give it consoles and skins, there not understood to be a T6 thing. To be honest based on other older blogs they could even get away with leaving the seating alone, although just adding the seating and traits would hardly hurt there sales. Which is clearly the only deciding factor.
They already established the precedence with this JHA(S)S
On a side note... Cryptic for the love of Trek, first misleading info on the dill weekend, now on this T6 capability upgrade, in both cases you have changed the info post factum ... This is not good business practice. I wish more people would visit the forums and voice their opinion.
At this moment I've lost all trust I had left in people making decisions regarding this game.