You folks arguing the legal are missing a key point. What is T6? My Eclipse is T6 yet has only 10 console slots (although better Boff seating). T5-U have 11 consoles, including the old bug. They got the boost in hull too. They didn't get a trait. But current z-store T6 ships are arguably inferior to T5-U. T6 box and give away ships are a bit different as they have extra boff seat and the 11 consoles.
As the wording never specifically said that the bug would be upgraded to T6. It said T6 "equivalent". Which is an easy argument to make. Not saying I agree with what they did but the wording is such that they are safe and sound. As soon as I saw the wording I posted in the original thread 8 months ago about it and what they were setting up to do, most didn't seem to believe me then.
The player spending is not meeting their projections thats why we get this.They think those who spent alot to get the old bug will do it again.They dont know those people left the game.
Seeing as the only time they ever used the term "T6 Capabilities" was when they had a previous r&d Promotion going on... one where people where saying, WHY bother trying to get a Bug ship with T6 coming.
Which prompted them to add the T6 Capabilities line... which was obviously a complete and utter lie.
Specifically:
"1770. (a) The following unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices undertaken by any person in a transaction intended to result or which results in the sale or lease of goods or services to any consumer are unlawful:"
"(1) Passing off goods or services as those of another."
" (7) Representing that goods or services are of a particular standard, quality, or grade, or that goods are of a particular style or model, if they are of another."
" (9) Advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised."
" (17) Representing that the consumer will receive a rebate, discount, or other economic benefit, if the earning of the benefit is contingent on an event to occur subsequent to the consummation of the transaction."
That's nice. But cryptic already expressed they feel t5-u is t6 capable, and from a judge's point of view since they designed the system, they would be the experts to make such a determination.
You people built this up in your heads you were getting a free full t6 upgrade, and unless you can prove Cryptic said you were getting a full T6 upgrade with detailed specs as to what full T6 was supposed to be for the JHAS, you aren't getting it. I normally don't stand up for cryptic and take their side, but this is a classic case of them giving an inch and you trying to take a mile.
Well, at least the JHAS will still have some use being the only bugship that gives carrier pets to the JHDC.
The JHSS doesn't seem as appealing to me, unfortunately, but I am sure some players will still want to get it due to its rarity after promotion and perhaps that *nasty* starship trait which may enable CRF to be used in unlimited numbers.
However, in comparison to 2 CRF with reduced cooldowns, how big would the need for an unlimited CRF be? Could be seen differently to who and how the person plays it.
The console is cool and all, but the 3pc set for the negation of the Defense Screen cooldown may be a bit costly, and not to mention, takes up valuable space on the ship too.
The Intel/Command bridges could be interesting, though, but I had never used an Intel or Command bridge officer before.
Well, now I am not as interested in upgrading the T5-U to T6, but if the opportunity comes, I can open my arms wide to welcome it.
I'm still sure that they're just about to announce if the upgrade from JHAS to JHSS will be for free or for some lobi or zen.
They have advertised JHAS as would be T6 the last time it was around, I really don't expect them not to keep to the main reason most people were opening those packs...
Here's how such a theoretical will ever play out:
You get the Upgrade to T6, but you DO NOT get the console (same way pre-owned Sci ships didn't get a free deflector after the update; you had to either retire and reclaim or craft one).
Except in this case; you have to still roll for the JHSS for the console.
Via word play; they only "promised T6 capabilities". They didn't promise the console too. So in the one-in-a-million chance they ever bothered to actually give the T6 treatment because players still can't accept their T5U=T6 cover, Cryptic still wins.
--
As to the JHSS proper, unless it also unlocks JHAS frigates, or at least upgraded JHSS frigates with SS1 at Adv and Elite and Overwhelm Emitters at Elite, it's not all that worthwhile.
Manasa is still a more reasonable option if you have to go the cannon route, and much cheaper too. It doesn't require a console either to give it limited defense, much less 3 consoles in order to make full use of that defense.
Well...doesn't have a Cmdr Intel, a Lt Cmdr Command, 5 fore slots, and 28 turn rate that people seemed to think it would have.
Honestly feels kinda like a tame ship compared to original Bug in its heyday you kinda need to use the Lt Cmdr for and Lt for Eng and Sci unless you go light on defense...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
i think when they mentioned the ship would be upgradeable to tier 6 or tier 6 like, they hadn't even come up with tier5U yet. they just knew they were somehow going to sell an upgrade for tier 5 ships.
And thats exactly how I and a lot of other people took it when they originally made that statement. It was going to be a free t5-u upgrade.
This reminds me a lot of when new rom came out and the life time subs thought they should get it for free... As a life time sub myself I knew that wasnt going to happen, but hey, people build stuff up in their minds all the time and this bug-ship is just another classic case.
Honestly feels kinda like a tame ship compared to original Bug in its heyday you kinda need to use the Lt Cmdr for and Lt for Eng and Sci unless you go light on defense...
That's probably why they moved the defense to the console as a shielding system.
So that you can use Inte/Cmd skills instead.
Much like how high DPS players tend to sacrifice defense in the hopes of being able to draw first blood.
That's nice. But cryptic already expressed they feel t5-u is t6 capable, and from a judge's point of view since they designed the system, they would be the experts to make such a determination.
I am not a lawyer, but this cannot possibly be true. If all a firm had to do to was establish (1) that they were more expert in the service than the plaintiff and (2) that in their judgment their own performance satisfied the terms of an agreement, bringing claims of fraud or breach-of-conduct would be impossible.
Whether Cryptic's conduct is tortious or not, this is simply not how companies should behave. You don't promise (while asking for money) that a product will include a free feature, give it a less capable free feature, and then sell a revised product with that feature at exorbitant prices.
You get the Upgrade to T6, but you DO NOT get the console (same way pre-owned Sci ships didn't get a free deflector after the update; you had to either retire and reclaim or craft one).
Except in this case; you have to still roll for the JHSS for the console.
Via word play; they only "promised T6 capabilities". They didn't promise the console too. So in the one-in-a-million chance they ever bothered to actually give the T6 treatment because players still can't accept their T5U=T6 cover, Cryptic still wins.
--
As to the JHSS proper, unless it also unlocks JHAS frigates, or at least upgraded JHSS frigates with SS1 at Adv and Elite and Overwhelm Emitters at Elite, it's not all that worthwhile.
Manasa is still a more reasonable option if you have to go the cannon route, and much cheaper too. It doesn't require a console either to give it limited defense, much less 3 consoles in order to make full use of that defense.
first off...where does it say T6 capabilities = T6? Second like it has been brought up earlier...the term was coined before the announced T5-U...
The Bugs got upgraded to T5-U for free...so they don't owe anyone anything really...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I am not a lawyer, but this cannot possibly be true. If all a firm had to do to was establish (1) that they were more expert in the service than the plaintiff and (2) that in their judgment their own performance satisfied the terms of an agreement, bringing claims of fraud or breach-of-conduct would be impossible.
Whether Cryptic's conduct is tortious or not, this is simply not how companies should behave. You don't promise (while asking for money) that a product will include a free feature, give it a less capable free feature, and then sell a revised product with that feature at exorbitant prices.
No, you arn't a lawyer. And this is possible.
They didnt promise you or anyone else a full fledged t6 bug ship.
Go ahead and try to take this to court and see what happens. I just assume use the money for a new bug ship as it would be cheaper.
first off...where does it say T6 capabilities = T6? Second like it has been brought up earlier...the term was coined before the announced T5-U...
The Bugs got upgraded to T5-U for free...so they don't owe anyone anything really...
You do realize it was sarcasm directed at those still crying for the JHAS to be upgraded to T6 JHSS for free, right?
That even if they did win their little whining match with Cryptic, they would still likely lose out due to the same stupid word play they're using for their reasons for JHAS to get a free JHSS upgrade?
Using that screencap of the original JHAS post as the word of their chosen deity that their position is perfectly valid? Even though that it was also done well before they formalized their T5U intentions, and after the fact, did clearly state their stance that T5U was equivalent enough to T6 with scaling, +1 console, and core set of 4 Masteries?
Go ahead and try to take this to court and see what happens. I just assume use the money for a new bug ship as it would be cheaper.
The gravamen of my argument is not the legality of Cryptic's actions (although I maintain my admittedly inexpert doubt that the law is so vastly deferential to one party in a dispute). They promised a free upgrade to "T-6 capabilities." The free T-5U is missing some of the most important of those capabilities. They are now selling basically a JHAS that has those promised capabilities. Whatever view of that the law takes is irrelevant to me. I think it's morally objectionable.
The gravamen of my argument is not the legality of Cryptic's actions (although I maintain my admittedly inexpert doubt that the law is so vastly deferential to one party in a dispute). They promised a free upgrade to "T-6 capabilities." The free T-5U is missing some of the most important of those capabilities. They are now selling basically a JHAS that has those promised capabilities. Whatever view of that the law takes is irrelevant to me. I think it's morally objectionable.
Its missing what?
Intel / command boff spots are not t6 critical.
You can also use other ship's traits with the ship.
The hull got buffed as did the shields. The ship got an extra console and ship mastery system. Those are the core of a t6 ships.
You can also use other ship's traits with the ship.
The hull got buffed as did the shields. The ship got an extra console and ship mastery system. Those are the core of a t6 ships.
Name one T6 ship without intel or command abilities. Name one T6 ship without 13 bridge officer abilities total. And name 1 T6 ship that doesn't come with a starship trait. Those are all innate capabilities of a tier 6 starship.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
The gravamen of my argument is not the legality of Cryptic's actions (although I maintain my admittedly inexpert doubt that the law is so vastly deferential to one party in a dispute). They promised a free upgrade to "T-6 capabilities." The free T-5U is missing some of the most important of those capabilities. They are now selling basically a JHAS that has those promised capabilities. Whatever view of that the law takes is irrelevant to me. I think it's morally objectionable.
You do realize it was sarcasm directed at those still crying for the JHAS to be upgraded to T6 JHSS for free, right?
That even if they did win their little whining match with Cryptic, they would still likely lose out due to the same stupid word play they're using for their reasons for JHAS to get a free JHSS upgrade?
Using that screencap of the original JHAS post as the word of their chosen deity that their position is perfectly valid? Even though that it was also done well before they formalized their T5U intentions, and after the fact, did clearly state their stance that T5U was equivalent enough to T6 with scaling, +1 console, and core set of 4 Masteries?
So much complaining I don't know what is what anymore :P
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Name one T6 ship without intel or command abilities. Name one T6 ship without 13 bridge officer abilities total. And name 1 T6 ship that doesn't come with a starship trait. Those are all innate capabilities of a tier 6 starship.
What does that have to do with anything? You arent locked into using the from a t6 ship on only that ship.
And what about a T5-U ship using starship traits from other ships? Don't act like it doesnt happen.
T5-U is T6 capable. If T5-U was supposed to be T6, they wouldn't be calling it T5-U, junior.
And no, intel and command abilities do no make a ship a T6 ship. Should I then say my scrye isnt a full T6 ship because it doesn't have a command boff slot?
So, what? Now its okay to have universal specialization Boff stations?
...
I'm sorry, truly, but if you ever wondered why nobody respects you devs, this is why.
EDIT: Among other reasons. Can I be the first (lol probably actually not) to ask why the weapon slots aren't 5/2? The lack of a hangar for lulz I can understand (sort of) but why no 5 fore weapons?
What does that have to do with anything? You arent locked into using the from a t6 ship on only that ship.
And what about a T5-U ship using starship traits from other ships? Don't act like it doesnt happen.
T5-U is T6 capable. If T5-U was supposed to be T6, they wouldn't be calling it T5-U, junior.
And no, intel and command abilities do no make a ship a T6 ship. Should I then say my scrye isnt a full T6 ship because it doesn't have a command boff slot?
All T6 ships to date have a hybrid seat. So to date, that's what defines a T6 class ship.
Boff seats are far more valuable than console slots. Having a missing 13th seat on the T5U bug is quite a difference in "capabilities"
Because this is a destroyer class ship by another name. It's not an escort.
Destroyers have 4+3 arrangements and typically have a heavy engy/sci bent (engy in this "strike" crafts case) along with high tac boff and console slots. It may look escorty, but destroyers do if you don't look closely.
The other give away is the bonus power. Escorts get +15 to weapons only. Destroyers have +10 to weapons and +5 to engines, as is the case with this "strike" craft.
And that is also why no hanger (besides being ridiculous for this ship), no destroyer to date afaik has a hanger.
The Tier 6 Jem'Hadar Strike Ship is an enhanced version of the Jem'Hadar Attack Ship which was a staple ship of the Dominion fleet. These ships are the most sophisticated craft in the Dominions fleet. The Jem'Hadar Strike Ship was built for covert operations and fleet support. It possesses incredible maneuverability with a surprising degree of durability for a ship of its size.
Ok you bloated whales pony up to the bar cause cryptic has a new shiny for you to spend a few thousand dollars on and yes in talking real money.
Idk what else to say except shame on cryptic for this , we have an already OP bug ship in game thats close to impossible to acquire....now an even MORE OP bug ship that will even be harder to acquire?
Its official casual gaming on STO is dead its a pay to win elitist game where only those with money to burn and the divide between the haves and have nots increases.
Way to go cryptic your showing which gamers matter to you....the rich whales.
Comments
As the wording never specifically said that the bug would be upgraded to T6. It said T6 "equivalent". Which is an easy argument to make. Not saying I agree with what they did but the wording is such that they are safe and sound. As soon as I saw the wording I posted in the original thread 8 months ago about it and what they were setting up to do, most didn't seem to believe me then.
As fired up as these people are? I honestly think they do mean it.
this is pretty much it
That's nice. But cryptic already expressed they feel t5-u is t6 capable, and from a judge's point of view since they designed the system, they would be the experts to make such a determination.
You people built this up in your heads you were getting a free full t6 upgrade, and unless you can prove Cryptic said you were getting a full T6 upgrade with detailed specs as to what full T6 was supposed to be for the JHAS, you aren't getting it. I normally don't stand up for cryptic and take their side, but this is a classic case of them giving an inch and you trying to take a mile.
The JHSS doesn't seem as appealing to me, unfortunately, but I am sure some players will still want to get it due to its rarity after promotion and perhaps that *nasty* starship trait which may enable CRF to be used in unlimited numbers.
However, in comparison to 2 CRF with reduced cooldowns, how big would the need for an unlimited CRF be? Could be seen differently to who and how the person plays it.
The console is cool and all, but the 3pc set for the negation of the Defense Screen cooldown may be a bit costly, and not to mention, takes up valuable space on the ship too.
The Intel/Command bridges could be interesting, though, but I had never used an Intel or Command bridge officer before.
Well, now I am not as interested in upgrading the T5-U to T6, but if the opportunity comes, I can open my arms wide to welcome it.
I hope I get this ship, but as much as I want to put it on my KDF tac, it would be going on my fed main because he has the other two jemmy ships.
I didn't really want this ship before, but now after reading all the butthurt complaining over it... I really want it!
You get the Upgrade to T6, but you DO NOT get the console (same way pre-owned Sci ships didn't get a free deflector after the update; you had to either retire and reclaim or craft one).
Except in this case; you have to still roll for the JHSS for the console.
Via word play; they only "promised T6 capabilities". They didn't promise the console too. So in the one-in-a-million chance they ever bothered to actually give the T6 treatment because players still can't accept their T5U=T6 cover, Cryptic still wins.
--
As to the JHSS proper, unless it also unlocks JHAS frigates, or at least upgraded JHSS frigates with SS1 at Adv and Elite and Overwhelm Emitters at Elite, it's not all that worthwhile.
Manasa is still a more reasonable option if you have to go the cannon route, and much cheaper too. It doesn't require a console either to give it limited defense, much less 3 consoles in order to make full use of that defense.
Honestly feels kinda like a tame ship compared to original Bug in its heyday you kinda need to use the Lt Cmdr for and Lt for Eng and Sci unless you go light on defense...
And thats exactly how I and a lot of other people took it when they originally made that statement. It was going to be a free t5-u upgrade.
This reminds me a lot of when new rom came out and the life time subs thought they should get it for free... As a life time sub myself I knew that wasnt going to happen, but hey, people build stuff up in their minds all the time and this bug-ship is just another classic case.
So that you can use Inte/Cmd skills instead.
Much like how high DPS players tend to sacrifice defense in the hopes of being able to draw first blood.
I am not a lawyer, but this cannot possibly be true. If all a firm had to do to was establish (1) that they were more expert in the service than the plaintiff and (2) that in their judgment their own performance satisfied the terms of an agreement, bringing claims of fraud or breach-of-conduct would be impossible.
Whether Cryptic's conduct is tortious or not, this is simply not how companies should behave. You don't promise (while asking for money) that a product will include a free feature, give it a less capable free feature, and then sell a revised product with that feature at exorbitant prices.
first off...where does it say T6 capabilities = T6? Second like it has been brought up earlier...the term was coined before the announced T5-U...
The Bugs got upgraded to T5-U for free...so they don't owe anyone anything really...
No, you arn't a lawyer. And this is possible.
They didnt promise you or anyone else a full fledged t6 bug ship.
Go ahead and try to take this to court and see what happens. I just assume use the money for a new bug ship as it would be cheaper.
That even if they did win their little whining match with Cryptic, they would still likely lose out due to the same stupid word play they're using for their reasons for JHAS to get a free JHSS upgrade?
Using that screencap of the original JHAS post as the word of their chosen deity that their position is perfectly valid? Even though that it was also done well before they formalized their T5U intentions, and after the fact, did clearly state their stance that T5U was equivalent enough to T6 with scaling, +1 console, and core set of 4 Masteries?
The gravamen of my argument is not the legality of Cryptic's actions (although I maintain my admittedly inexpert doubt that the law is so vastly deferential to one party in a dispute). They promised a free upgrade to "T-6 capabilities." The free T-5U is missing some of the most important of those capabilities. They are now selling basically a JHAS that has those promised capabilities. Whatever view of that the law takes is irrelevant to me. I think it's morally objectionable.
Its missing what?
Intel / command boff spots are not t6 critical.
You can also use other ship's traits with the ship.
The hull got buffed as did the shields. The ship got an extra console and ship mastery system. Those are the core of a t6 ships.
Name one T6 ship without intel or command abilities. Name one T6 ship without 13 bridge officer abilities total. And name 1 T6 ship that doesn't come with a starship trait. Those are all innate capabilities of a tier 6 starship.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
At the moment of writing of this http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/6007323-the-jem%27hadar-attack-ship-returns they, as in Cryptic, were clearly aware of the difference between a T5-U ship and a T6 ship. When they say in that blog, T6 capabilities, it means a T6 ship and not one that is upgraded to T5-U.
Or as far as Box lobi ships, rather be in my Temporal ships, Adapted Destroyer, Jem Dread/HEC, or SheShar.
I think a Mat'ha or Phantom with the 180 degree turn console from the Heavy Hunter is a better war machine.
So much complaining I don't know what is what anymore :P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1189191&highlight=Hadar+tier
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Furniture liquidation sales!!! GOING OUT OF BUSINESS!!! Everything MUST GO!!!
Qapla' and ummm no I will not be here for STO2...
What does that have to do with anything? You arent locked into using the from a t6 ship on only that ship.
And what about a T5-U ship using starship traits from other ships? Don't act like it doesnt happen.
T5-U is T6 capable. If T5-U was supposed to be T6, they wouldn't be calling it T5-U, junior.
And no, intel and command abilities do no make a ship a T6 ship. Should I then say my scrye isnt a full T6 ship because it doesn't have a command boff slot?
Complaining.... Crying... You'd think these people just got a recall notice in the mail that their brand new BMW was defective..
...
I'm sorry, truly, but if you ever wondered why nobody respects you devs, this is why.
EDIT: Among other reasons. Can I be the first (lol probably actually not) to ask why the weapon slots aren't 5/2? The lack of a hangar for lulz I can understand (sort of) but why no 5 fore weapons?
All T6 ships to date have a hybrid seat. So to date, that's what defines a T6 class ship.
Boff seats are far more valuable than console slots. Having a missing 13th seat on the T5U bug is quite a difference in "capabilities"
Because this is a destroyer class ship by another name. It's not an escort.
Destroyers have 4+3 arrangements and typically have a heavy engy/sci bent (engy in this "strike" crafts case) along with high tac boff and console slots. It may look escorty, but destroyers do if you don't look closely.
The other give away is the bonus power. Escorts get +15 to weapons only. Destroyers have +10 to weapons and +5 to engines, as is the case with this "strike" craft.
And that is also why no hanger (besides being ridiculous for this ship), no destroyer to date afaik has a hanger.
Hey, I like your footer too
Idk what else to say except shame on cryptic for this , we have an already OP bug ship in game thats close to impossible to acquire....now an even MORE OP bug ship that will even be harder to acquire?
Its official casual gaming on STO is dead its a pay to win elitist game where only those with money to burn and the divide between the haves and have nots increases.
Way to go cryptic your showing which gamers matter to you....the rich whales.