I enjoyed the dynamics through it, but my personal preference is for less use of non-translation.
Yeah, I hear that a fair amount with Morgan. It's a stylistic choice I made when I first started writing her, to emphasize that this isn't a human viewpoint in either a literal or figurative sense. Although after people complained with Saith Daepahr hrrafv Llairrevha (the Morgan/D'trel crossover Worffan and I did a few months ago) that I overdid it I've been trying to rein it in. You'll notice I gave the translation immediately after in this piece.
Really the only important words I left untranslated this time were deihu ("senator", literally "elder") and fvillhu ("praetor", essentially the prime minister).
Great work with Spock and illustrating his influence.
Glad you guys liked it.
The basic idea with Morgan is that she represents something of a middle ground between the old Empire and the hardcore Unificationist Republicans like D'trel. To continue the references to Romulan political parties from the Last Unicorn RPG, she'd probably align herself with the Nej'ahar Coalition, which are sort of like progressives in the United States. They favor a more defensive military posture (as opposed to aggressive expansionism, as favored by Jaridan and Suketh, and more typical of RSE foreign policy) and improving economic opportunity for the citizenry. However, they're also a traditional values party, and unlike D'trel, Morgan was raised in the political class and is minor nobility -- she'd be the head of House Thavrau now if any of its holdings still existed.
So in practice this means she's fully in favor of friendly relations with the Federation (even if she and Jaleh get into shouting matches every once in a while on the finer points of morality, cf. "Aen'rhien Vailiuri"), but also that she isn't a Unificationist and wants to maintain Romulan cultural independence. At the same time, Spock left one hell of an impression on her.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Another thing about Unification: It's a broad-strokes movement that can mean many things, anything from the Romulan conquest of Vulcan to a subsumption of Romulans into Vulcans.
D'trel, born a nobody, is sort of in the middle; her ideal solution would probably be an independent government consisting of Remans, Romulans, and Vulcans in equal positions, with a mostly-Romulan cultural identity tempered by Vulcan logic and more socialistic than the old Empire. She hates the idea of people slipping through the cracks, given that she herself slipped down some of those cracks.
The Republic as it is is a strong step in the right direction, and it's doing things right despite the naive idealist at its head, which D'trel likes (despite disapproving of the gubernatorial incompetence). So she works for them and beats the living daylights out of the people who threaten the Republic.
But D'trel is passionate in her defense of her cause, which lead to a lot of head-butting between her and Morgan before they worked things out by beating eighteen kinds of excrement out of Colonel Merik. D'trel isn't one for letting her pride get in the way of competence analysis, so she saw Morgan for the competent officer she is and now has a pretty high opinion of her. Even got her a prestigious medal.
Just posted something--D'trel et al bring assistance to a Benthan colony suffering from a nasty bout of space illness, and her engineers have to Meet the Parents.
Just posted something--D'trel et al bring assistance to a Benthan colony suffering from a nasty bout of space illness, and her engineers have to Meet the Parents.
The battle was quite interesting, but IMHO the relationsip stuff read as clumsy and unconvincing, and I'm sorry to say I thought the idea that Nausicaans would indulge in maiming as part of a marriage ceremony, is simply ludicrous (unless they have lizard-like healing capabilities which let them regrow limbs rapidly) The expressions used were also way to contemporary, and all the voices were the same. Had the names been Three and Azip, etc, it would have made no difference to what was said/how it was said... Sorry I can't be more constructive than that, but this wasn't your stongest piece by any stretch, but hey, no one hits a homerun each time...
The battle was quite interesting, but IMHO the relationsip stuff read as clumsy and unconvincing, and I'm sorry to say I thought the idea that Nausicaans would indulge in maiming as part of a marriage ceremony, is simply ludicrous (unless they have lizard-like healing capabilities which let them regrow limbs rapidly) The expressions used were also way to contemporary, and all the voices were the same. Had the names been Three and Azip, etc, it would have made no difference to what was said/how it was said... Sorry I can't be more constructive than that, but this wasn't your stongest piece by any stretch, but hey, no one hits a homerun each time...
Hmmm
Well, Nausicaans are shown in canon to throw darts at each other as a game, and...well, they're kind of supposed to be big scary guys that do a lot of violent stuff.
Anyway, yeah, I basically just reworked and posted an old story that I'd been terminally stalled on and added a disaster relief plot with some Kazon so D'trel could show why she's in a command position. I wasn't terribly happy with the other plot, but I was making no headway, so...well, just put it out and get onto something else.
Well, Nausicaans are shown in canon to throw darts at each other as a game, and...well, they're kind of supposed to be big scary guys that do a lot of violent stuff.
Anyway, yeah, I basically just reworked and posted an old story that I'd been terminally stalled on and added a disaster relief plot with some Kazon so D'trel could show why she's in a command position. I wasn't terribly happy with the other plot, but I was making no headway, so...well, just put it out and get onto something else.
There's a difference between two enforcers (who may not have been firing on all thrusters ) throwing darts into each other (given they were wearing chunky jackets and darts only have an inch or so worth of puncture depth) for the lols (which at most, is going to require a few passes of a dermal regenerator) to the idea that they maim each other to the point of requiring major surgery (thus reducing their effectiveness as providers/hunters/etc) as part of a wedding ritual... The plot with D'trel taking on the Kazon was fine, it was just the dialogue which seemed incongruous (although the idea of a ridge-headed Romulan refering to a Kazon as lumpy headed was rather funny ) For me, as mentioned, the weakest thing was the relationship/family stuff, which sounded like children trying to have an adult conversation with adults who equaly weren't the sharpest tools in the box, and it just seemed forced... As above, sorry I can't be more positive, but I hope that's at least suggesting things for reference, rather than just coming across as bashing ^_^
There's a difference between two enforcers (who may not have been firing on all thrusters ) throwing darts into each other (given they were wearing chunky jackets and darts only have an inch or so worth of puncture depth) for the lols (which at most, is going to require a few passes of a dermal regenerator) to the idea that they maim each other to the point of requiring major surgery (thus reducing their effectiveness as providers/hunters/etc) as part of a wedding ritual...
I will admit that a LOT of that was a massive Take That to Berman and Braga for nerfing the Nausicaans into uselessness in ENT: Fortunate Son. I HATE that episode. I went as far as I could to make these guys the biggest, baddest, scariest, gnarliest pirate warriors in the quadrant.
The bit that I didn't say is that Nausicaans are in all likelihood excellent doctors.
The plot with D'trel taking on the Kazon was fine, it was just the dialogue which seemed incongruous (although the idea of a ridge-headed Romulan refering to a Kazon as lumpy headed was rather funny )
D'trel has zero respect for the Kazon...
What was wrong with the dialogue? Or is that a reference to the rest of the story?
For me, as mentioned, the weakest thing was the relationship/family stuff, which sounded like children trying to have an adult conversation with adults who equaly weren't the sharpest tools in the box, and it just seemed forced...
Note that I have zero experience with intimate relationships and I'm 18 years old, homeschooled since I was 6. So this is something I am VERY weak at, and I know it.
I will admit that a LOT of that was a massive Take That to Berman and Braga for nerfing the Nausicaans into uselessness in ENT: Fortunate Son. I HATE that episode. I went as far as I could to make these guys the biggest, baddest, scariest, gnarliest pirate warriors in the quadrant.
The bit that I didn't say is that Nausicaans are in all likelihood excellent doctors.
What was wrong with the dialogue? Or is that a reference to the rest of the story?
That doesn't surprize me, it did just strike me as funny though The dialogue was too 21st century. Too informal, too colloquial, too similar from speaker to speaker. There was no distinguishing 'flavor' if that makes any sense? A tiny spoiler as an example...
***
Interview Room C, Starfleet Command...
"Ma'am?" Ensign Jim Noakes sat at the table, a somewhat bemused expression on his face.
"At the time in question, other than guard rotations and mandatory inspections, did anyone visit Commander ******?" Lucinda repeated.
"I... I can't remember..."
"According to all sensors and recordings, the commander was alone in his cell," Lucinda said, resting her forearms on the table between them. "Edmiral Tobin refuses to believe that he *** *** *** *****, so I have to investigate accordingly, despite what the logs show. You said you don't remember, does thet mean someone did visit him?"
At the very periphery of her vision, Lucinda thought she saw a shadow move on the wall. Her eyes flicked over, but there was nothing, and she returned her full attention to what Noakes was saying.
"I... don't remember, Ma'am!" he insisted.
"Are you on the dagga?" Lucinda suddenly demanded, pointing an accusatory finger. "Because if you are, my boy, I'll slup you with an orticle one-one-two raht here, then a further charge for obstruction of an investigation."
"No Ma'am, no drugs," Jim hastily tried to assure her. "I want to say there might have been someone, it almost feels like there was but I can't remember... I honestly can't remember anyone visiting the commander."
"I want him scrinned by medical raht now," Lucinda said to Catherine, ignoring the befuddled ensign altogether. "I'm not sure he's fit for duty, let alone fit to be questioned..."
Despite the difference in rank, Lucinda's investigation meant she was in the position of seniority, and Catherine nodded unhesitatingly.
"What about my rights?" Noakes protested, very much aware he was being spoken about, not addressed directly.
"Your rahts?" Lucinda repeated somewhat incredulously. "Your rahts are being observed, Ensign. You have your JAG representative beside you, a nice cup of tea on the table, and I've not started slupping you around or attaching electrodes to your knatters, have I?" She sighed with exasperation and took a breath. "I tell you what, men, how about a toilet break, eh? Maybe splash some water on your face, park off and have a few minutes alone with your thoughts? Take a moment, then come back and we'll try again. How does thet sound, eh?"
"Uh, yes, Ma'am, I'd like that..."
Getting to his feet, Noakes left the interview room, accompanied by two security officers.
The doors closed albeit with a slight stutter which caught Lucinda's eye, but she looked to Catherine.
"Thet boy's got five minutes to give me some sensible answers when he gets back, or I'm going to Edmiral Stratton to get an injunction to have a Betazoid or a Vulcan go in there and get the answers from him," she advised the JAG officer.
"This is Starfleet, Lieutenant Commander," Catherine stated disapprovingly.
"Ja, Ma'am, thet's raht, this is Starfleet, not the Kay Dee Eff. If it was, your boy would've had a painstick up the ring and a Lethean ripping his mahnd to shreds just now," Lucinda pointed out. "I think he knows something, and I need to know if he's too gaffed to remember, or just being stroppy to protect a third party."
***
As you can see, different dialects, different tempos of speech. Your entry could have been Jak and Daysnur, Azip and Three, D'trel or Omek, any combination, and it would have made no difference, as the way they spoke was too similar to distinguish an individual voice for each, if that makes sense?
Note that I have zero experience with intimate relationships and I'm 18 years old, homeschooled since I was 6. So this is something I am VERY weak at, and I know it.
It's fine--as I say all the time, negative criticism is just as welcome as positive.
The next bit is a double-edged piece of advice I once read from someone somewhere, that a person can only 'write what they know'... Now on the one hand, I would be the first to say that an author doesn't have to be [insert job here] to write a character who is, as they can research. But on the other hand, some things, like relationships, do require some personal experience to be able to write convincingly. Not really sure what I can suggest to develop that area, short of either being in a relationship, as even reading/watching movies don't always give a true to life example of what life in a relationship is like...
Yeah, I tried for "these guys are absurdly obsessed with toughness and pain endurance", guess it fell flat.
But again, supremely angry at B&B, I watched "Unexpected" last week and was appalled that anybody thought that what happened to Trip was FUNNY (dude got r*ped, pregnancy was likely to kill him due to Bad Biology, and nobody even CONSIDERED aborting...scumbags), so I was kind of running on rage at everything ENT and decided to go whole-hog the other way with the Nausicaans.
That doesn't surprize me, it did just strike me as funny though The dialogue was too 21st century. Too informal, too colloquial, too similar from speaker to speaker. There was no distinguishing 'flavor' if that makes any sense? A tiny spoiler as an example...
<snip>
As you can see, different dialects, different tempos of speech. Your entry could have been Jak and Daysnur, Azip and Three, D'trel or Omek, any combination, and it would have made no difference, as the way they spoke was too similar to distinguish an individual voice for each, if that makes sense?
I know what you're getting at, and the action of this story was pretty split-up and disjointed, which removed the opportunity for more voices...
On the other hand, I don't really like writing dialect. One too many RA Salvatore novels, struggling to understand Cattie-Brie...just a personal thing, I guess, and it seems to have worked against me here.
The next bit is a double-edged piece of advice I once read from someone somewhere, that a person can only 'write what they know'... Now on the one hand, I would be the first to say that an author doesn't have to be [insert job here] to write a character who is, as they can research. But on the other hand, some things, like relationships, do require some personal experience to be able to write convincingly. Not really sure what I can suggest to develop that area, short of either being in a relationship, as even reading/watching movies don't always give a true to life example of what life in a relationship is like...
Nah, I get it. This is something that I need first-hand for and don't have it.
Sort of like how I get Omek really well, especially in situations like ULC 8, because there's so much ME in him. His friendship with D'trel is me with my friends; I would lay and have laid down anything for them. Skipped out on a Bio extra-credit lecture about birds to comfort my depressed, sick friend and didn't regret it for a second (as an example). I get being friends.
Yeah, I tried for "these guys are absurdly obsessed with toughness and pain endurance", guess it fell flat.
But again, supremely angry at B&B, I watched "Unexpected" last week and was appalled that anybody thought that what happened to Trip was FUNNY (dude got r*ped, pregnancy was likely to kill him due to Bad Biology, and nobody even CONSIDERED aborting...scumbags), so I was kind of running on rage at everything ENT and decided to go whole-hog the other way with the Nausicaans.
Hence Jak's parents being Mother Russia and Kane.
Well, as mentioned, no one hits a homerun everytime, but don't forget, it is just my .2c, others might disagree with my thoughts :cool:
I know what you're getting at, and the action of this story was pretty split-up and disjointed, which removed the opportunity for more voices...
On the other hand, I don't really like writing dialect. One too many RA Salvatore novels, struggling to understand Cattie-Brie...just a personal thing, I guess, and it seems to have worked against me here.
I guess all I can suggest is not to let them say what you'd say, but let them find their own voices more And I quite agree on dialect, and it's not something I do much. Lulu's a special case, and even then, there's been some refinement behind the scenes of finding the fine-line between how her dialogue comes through to me (a very strong South African accent) and what readers can read without being slowed down by trying to work out the phonetics of each word, and then the informality and crudeness of her speech... What I did get from her today though, was an admission that it's a psychological weapon in her arsenal... She knows some people tend view her as a bridge bunny, so she plays it up so opponents underestimate her and don't realise just how sharp she actually is... As above, try and let them have their own voices, even if not necessarily dialect spellings :cool:
Nah, I get it. This is something that I need first-hand for and don't have it.
Sort of like how I get Omek really well, especially in situations like ULC 8, because there's so much ME in him. His friendship with D'trel is me with my friends; I would lay and have laid down anything for them. Skipped out on a Bio extra-credit lecture about birds to comfort my depressed, sick friend and didn't regret it for a second (as an example). I get being friends.
I don't get intimate relationships.
Thank you for the advice!
Only thing I can suggest (which is something I do) is to shift plot focus so moments like that aren't so much the focus, but of course, that's not always easy depending on what the plot insists (I'm still not convinced I handled Ael and Channery's date well...) But no worries, always happy to give critique :cool:
Well, as mentioned, no one hits a homerun everytime, but don't forget, it is just my .2c, others might disagree with my thoughts :cool:
True, this was me out of my comfort zone (whereas ULC 8 was me in my comfort zone with a change-up nice and easy over the plate and a good solid bat in my hands, rested, stretched and ready).
On that note...anyone else have thoughts? /shamelessplug
I guess all I can suggest is not to let them say what you'd say, but let them find their own voices more And I quite agree on dialect, and it's not something I do much. Lulu's a special case, and even then, there's been some refinement behind the scenes of finding the fine-line between how her dialogue comes through to me (a very strong South African accent) and what readers can read without being slowed down by trying to work out the phonetics of each word, and then the informality and crudeness of her speech... What I did get from her today though, was an admission that it's a psychological weapon in her arsenal... She knows some people tend view her as a bridge bunny, so she plays it up so opponents underestimate her and don't realise just how sharp she actually is... As above, try and let them have their own voices, even if not necessarily dialect spellings :cool:
And yeah, I do a lot better with more space to work through characters...I've been working on this, and I like to think I'm normally better at it.
Only thing I can suggest (which is something I do) is to shift plot focus so moments like that aren't so much the focus, but of course, that's not always easy depending on what the plot insists (I'm still not convinced I handled Ael and Channery's date well...) But no worries, always happy to give critique :cool:
yeah...again, I wasn't terribly happy with this but I wanted it out of my head.
Gives me a lesson for later, at least! *grinning smiley*
The fun part about letting your characters find their own voices is that sometimes they'll say things you weren't originally planning on. For instance, in the followup to "Outpost 47", I was going to have Grunt firmly defend both his crew and his ship, insofar as the regulations allowed; however, it was when I tried my best to put on a Ferengi's view that I realized how non-Federation legal systems could be used to keep the Bedford from being disassembled and Mycroft impounded as an unregistered AI. If it had just been my voice, there would have been protests, and pursuit through channels - and since it was a Commander brevetted to Captain versus a full Admiral, he almost certainly would have had to lose.
The fun part about letting your characters find their own voices is that sometimes they'll say things you weren't originally planning on. For instance, in the followup to "Outpost 47", I was going to have Grunt firmly defend both his crew and his ship, insofar as the regulations allowed; however, it was when I tried my best to put on a Ferengi's view that I realized how non-Federation legal systems could be used to keep the Bedford from being disassembled and Mycroft impounded as an unregistered AI. If it had just been my voice, there would have been protests, and pursuit through channels - and since it was a Commander brevetted to Captain versus a full Admiral, he almost certainly would have had to lose.
Yeah, when I really let D'trel go...she scares me, man. :eek:
Anyway, hope you liked the action, at least. That's something I like to think I'm good at.
In regards to dialect, I think it's very easy to overdo that. In ENG 105 I had to read a couple of short stories written in late 19th century African-American (by white authors; I forget the names). The dialect was so thick the story was practically illegible.
You don't take it quite that far, marcus (and fortunately the rest of the story is in standard American English, which helps), but if I didn't have first-hand experience talking to Latinos on sites, for instance, some of the dialect in your "Out in the Cold" piece might've been fairly hard to read.
I've gone with a slightly different approach with regional characters, which is not try to phonetically write the dialect, but rather say they've got an accent and throw in regional slang here and there (e.g. Warragul calling breakfast "brekkie", Juno Ichigaki and "ag shame"). Another thing I like to do is describe regional traits, e.g. VADM. Reynolds' facial tattoos to indicate a Maori background.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
In regards to dialect, I think it's very easy to overdo that. In ENG 105 I had to read a couple of short stories written in late 19th century African-American (by white authors; I forget the names). The dialect was so thick the story was practically illegible.
Absolutely, although equally, the same could be said about Shakespeare, due to the difference in language... It's a fine line, to be sure, and I wasn't meaning that each character necessarily be written in a phonetic dialect, just that each character have their own unique voice, which, in the entry commented upon, they didn't, they all simply used the author's with no distinction between them, other than different names being attached in the narrative...
You don't take it quite that far, marcus (and fortunately the rest of the story is in standard American English, which helps), but if I didn't have first-hand experience talking to Latinos on sites, for instance, some of the dialect in your "Out in the Cold" piece might've been fairly hard to read.
I have to admit, I actually can't think of which piece you're meaning, as I don't tend to use many Latino characters... There is a much later scene which features another South African, whose dialect is even thicker, and described as representing someone who's never left the city, rather than joining a more multi-cultural community like Starfleet.
I've gone with a slightly different approach with regional characters, which is not try to phonetically write the dialect, but rather say they've got an accent and throw in regional slang here and there (e.g. Warragul calling breakfast "brekkie", Juno Ichigaki and "ag shame"). Another thing I like to do is describe regional traits, e.g. VADM. Reynolds' facial tattoos to indicate a Maori background.
Absolutely, and for the most part, Lulu (deliberately) uses a fair bit of regional slang, but I think sometimes a little phonetics just helps to illustrate certain sounds. Jules Verne must've mentioned that Ned Land was Canadian on just about every page of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, but I actually found that more intrusive and needlessly highlighting, than had Ned simply asked "What's this all aboot, eh?" But as above, that's not to say that each character should be phonetically written, but each character should at least have their own voice :cool:
True, this was me out of my comfort zone (whereas ULC 8 was me in my comfort zone with a change-up nice and easy over the plate and a good solid bat in my hands, rested, stretched and ready).
On that note...anyone else have thoughts? /shamelessplug
And yeah, I do a lot better with more space to work through characters...I've been working on this, and I like to think I'm normally better at it.
yeah...again, I wasn't terribly happy with this but I wanted it out of my head.
Gives me a lesson for later, at least! *grinning smiley*
And thanks. *smiley*
No worries :cool: There's something to be said for stretching one's boundaries, but also something to be said for playing to one's strengths :cool: And I definitely understand the feeling of sometimes just having to write something just to 'get it out'
No worries :cool: There's something to be said for stretching one's boundaries, but also something to be said for playing to one's strengths :cool: And I definitely understand the feeling of sometimes just having to write something just to 'get it out'
Yeah...if I didn't have summer internships to look for, The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs to write, and a metric butt ton of other stuff to do, I'd probably have spent more time on it, but as it was I just wanted it out of my head and so I added D'trel killing some Kazon because I don't like the Kazon.
But yeah, definitely not writing in my comfort zone here, and hey, great learning experience!
Yeah...if I didn't have summer internships to look for, The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs to write, and a metric butt ton of other stuff to do, I'd probably have spent more time on it, but as it was I just wanted it out of my head and so I added D'trel killing some Kazon because I don't like the Kazon.
But yeah, definitely not writing in my comfort zone here, and hey, great learning experience!
Would never have guessed Beware your own opinions transfering too much to the characters
Would never have guessed Beware your own opinions transfering too much to the characters
Learning is always good :cool:
I don't really think anyone likes the Kazon...they're stupid, misogynistic space pirates (which leads to Unfortunate Implications) with bad hair and worse hygiene. Certainly none of my characters likes them (well, except Three, who'll eat them with mango chutney if they've had a bath. It's a modified version of a Gordon Ramsay steak recipe, y'see).
I don't really think anyone likes the Kazon...they're stupid, misogynistic space pirates (which leads to Unfortunate Implications) with bad hair and worse hygiene. Certainly none of my characters likes them (well, except Three, who'll eat them with mango chutney if they've had a bath. It's a modified version of a Gordon Ramsay steak recipe, y'see).
And yes, learning is awesome.
I wouldn't go so far as to say I 'like' them, but I didn't really mind them... I just think the concept got squandered by the writers into making them incompetents so the heroes had some easy mooks to take down so they could look good, rather than them being a credible threat (ie Somali pirates, who will without a doubt f**k people up, or the Haitians seen in Bad Boys II...) till Voyager left their space... The idea that they had ships, but couldn't just mine ice from somewhere was a bit of a plot hole, but I think they could have been much more threatening if properly utilized...
Sure, Space Pirates are intimidating; look at Nausicaans. Big, scary dudes with snarling voices that look like the Predator and throw giant sharp darts at each other for fun? They're scary.
Plus, they're successful space pirates in an area near Klingon space. That takes skill, engineering and medical knowledge, and BALLS.
The Kazon? They don't even look scary! They're at best a minor threat to shipping in the boondocks of the galaxy!
Sure, Space Pirates are intimidating; look at Nausicaans. Big, scary dudes with snarling voices that look like the Predator and throw giant sharp darts at each other for fun? They're scary.
Plus, they're successful space pirates in an area near Klingon space. That takes skill, engineering and medical knowledge, and BALLS.
The Kazon? They don't even look scary! They're at best a minor threat to shipping in the boondocks of the galaxy!
Yes, but they had the capacity to be more, had the writers actually been creative, rather than taking the easy way out and reducing them to mook-status... I see them kind of like feral dogs. Relatively easy to deal with one on one, but get caught by a pack, and you're in trouble...
Yes, but they had the capacity to be more, had the writers actually been creative, rather than taking the easy way out and reducing them to mook-status... I see them kind of like feral dogs. Relatively easy to deal with one on one, but get caught by a pack, and you're in trouble...
In "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs", we're using the Kazon as the Mooks for a race of self-assured elitist bigots who prefer to pretend that they're significant on a galactic scale. It's...pretty fun, actually. And we're playing the Kazon relentlessly straight, so they're still morons but the implications of sexist violent morons capturing women (i.e. on Ocampa Prime) are, ah, dealt with.
*fondly remembers writing the scene where Gul Evek does the four-lights bit on a Kazon prisoner out of sheer rage*
Anyway...you're right, they could've been more, but as-is they're a joke at best and have been since their introduction.
Yeah, given my nature, if I ever have to write about Kazon, I'm going to have to go with the assumption that the ones we see, much like the batarians seen most of the time in the Mass Effect games, are outcast from their society - the interstellar equivalent of a gang of high-school dropouts, kicking around their region of space in a bunch of stolen starships, while back home their more intelligent relations are low-rent Klingons (as apparently originally intended). Because if we take the ones we've seen as being typical of their species, they should all have been dead for centuries before Janeway and her merry band of supposed-to-be-misfits came along.
In "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs", we're using the Kazon as the Mooks for a race of self-assured elitist bigots who prefer to pretend that they're significant on a galactic scale. It's...pretty fun, actually. And we're playing the Kazon relentlessly straight, so they're still morons but the implications of sexist violent morons capturing women (i.e. on Ocampa Prime) are, ah, dealt with.
*fondly remembers writing the scene where Gul Evek does the four-lights bit on a Kazon prisoner out of sheer rage*
Anyway...you're right, they could've been more, but as-is they're a joke at best and have been since their introduction.
Villains do need to be dislikable in some way
Yeah, I think the writers really dropped the ball on that (well, that's a given m
for most of Voyager's writing, really) but IMHO the idea of various sects and squads of Kazon chasing Voyager, nipping at their heels all the way, gradually wearing them down, so the crew (who are comfortable and complacent in their Federation Supremacy) realise and know that once the ship stops, they're getting boarded and f**ked up, would have been much more compelling :cool:
Yeah, given my nature, if I ever have to write about Kazon, I'm going to have to go with the assumption that the ones we see, much like the batarians seen most of the time in the Mass Effect games, are outcast from their society - the interstellar equivalent of a gang of high-school dropouts, kicking around their region of space in a bunch of stolen starships, while back home their more intelligent relations are low-rent Klingons (as apparently originally intended). Because if we take the ones we've seen as being typical of their species, they should all have been dead for centuries before Janeway and her merry band of supposed-to-be-misfits came along.
Exactly. To be starfaring, be it by their own design or through stolen ships, would at least require a certain amount of intelligence which the Kazon were never shown to have. Sure, a load of Somali pirates against a US battleship is likely to get blown out of the water, but those same pirates against say a light frigate or coastguard cutter, and the tables would be dramatically turned...
Yeah, I think the writers really dropped the ball on that (well, that's a given m
for most of Voyager's writing, really) but IMHO the idea of various sects and squads of Kazon chasing Voyager, nipping at their heels all the way, gradually wearing them down, so the crew (who are comfortable and complacent in their Federation Supremacy) realise and know that once the ship stops, they're getting boarded and f**ked up, would have been much more compelling :cool:
There's a reason why Stadi wants to kill them all. She saw into one of their minds on Ocampa Prime.
Yeah, we actually went with something like that in MCNL; Stadi quickly realizes that she can't used Federation standards around the Kazon--and Gul Evek never had Federation standards, he's a Cardassian patriot to the core. Hurt his men, hurt or insult Cardassia, and he obliterates you.
C.F. Maje Jal Jabin getting the electric chair, and the Kazon prisoner in chapter 6 getting tortured with electricity because Evek is done with those r*pist thugs.
Comments
Really the only important words I left untranslated this time were deihu ("senator", literally "elder") and fvillhu ("praetor", essentially the prime minister).
Glad you guys liked it.
The basic idea with Morgan is that she represents something of a middle ground between the old Empire and the hardcore Unificationist Republicans like D'trel. To continue the references to Romulan political parties from the Last Unicorn RPG, she'd probably align herself with the Nej'ahar Coalition, which are sort of like progressives in the United States. They favor a more defensive military posture (as opposed to aggressive expansionism, as favored by Jaridan and Suketh, and more typical of RSE foreign policy) and improving economic opportunity for the citizenry. However, they're also a traditional values party, and unlike D'trel, Morgan was raised in the political class and is minor nobility -- she'd be the head of House Thavrau now if any of its holdings still existed.
So in practice this means she's fully in favor of friendly relations with the Federation (even if she and Jaleh get into shouting matches every once in a while on the finer points of morality, cf. "Aen'rhien Vailiuri"), but also that she isn't a Unificationist and wants to maintain Romulan cultural independence. At the same time, Spock left one hell of an impression on her.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
D'trel, born a nobody, is sort of in the middle; her ideal solution would probably be an independent government consisting of Remans, Romulans, and Vulcans in equal positions, with a mostly-Romulan cultural identity tempered by Vulcan logic and more socialistic than the old Empire. She hates the idea of people slipping through the cracks, given that she herself slipped down some of those cracks.
The Republic as it is is a strong step in the right direction, and it's doing things right despite the naive idealist at its head, which D'trel likes (despite disapproving of the gubernatorial incompetence). So she works for them and beats the living daylights out of the people who threaten the Republic.
But D'trel is passionate in her defense of her cause, which lead to a lot of head-butting between her and Morgan before they worked things out by beating eighteen kinds of excrement out of Colonel Merik. D'trel isn't one for letting her pride get in the way of competence analysis, so she saw Morgan for the competent officer she is and now has a pretty high opinion of her. Even got her a prestigious medal.
Fantastic entry, I thoroughly enjoyed it :cool:
The battle was quite interesting, but IMHO the relationsip stuff read as clumsy and unconvincing, and I'm sorry to say I thought the idea that Nausicaans would indulge in maiming as part of a marriage ceremony, is simply ludicrous (unless they have lizard-like healing capabilities which let them regrow limbs rapidly) The expressions used were also way to contemporary, and all the voices were the same. Had the names been Three and Azip, etc, it would have made no difference to what was said/how it was said... Sorry I can't be more constructive than that, but this wasn't your stongest piece by any stretch, but hey, no one hits a homerun each time...
Hmmm
Well, Nausicaans are shown in canon to throw darts at each other as a game, and...well, they're kind of supposed to be big scary guys that do a lot of violent stuff.
Anyway, yeah, I basically just reworked and posted an old story that I'd been terminally stalled on and added a disaster relief plot with some Kazon so D'trel could show why she's in a command position. I wasn't terribly happy with the other plot, but I was making no headway, so...well, just put it out and get onto something else.
There's a difference between two enforcers (who may not have been firing on all thrusters
The bit that I didn't say is that Nausicaans are in all likelihood excellent doctors.
What was wrong with the dialogue? Or is that a reference to the rest of the story? Note that I have zero experience with intimate relationships and I'm 18 years old, homeschooled since I was 6. So this is something I am VERY weak at, and I know it. It's fine--as I say all the time, negative criticism is just as welcome as positive.
That doesn't surprize me, it did just strike me as funny though
***
Interview Room C, Starfleet Command...
"Ma'am?" Ensign Jim Noakes sat at the table, a somewhat bemused expression on his face.
"At the time in question, other than guard rotations and mandatory inspections, did anyone visit Commander ******?" Lucinda repeated.
"I... I can't remember..."
"According to all sensors and recordings, the commander was alone in his cell," Lucinda said, resting her forearms on the table between them. "Edmiral Tobin refuses to believe that he *** *** *** *****, so I have to investigate accordingly, despite what the logs show. You said you don't remember, does thet mean someone did visit him?"
At the very periphery of her vision, Lucinda thought she saw a shadow move on the wall. Her eyes flicked over, but there was nothing, and she returned her full attention to what Noakes was saying.
"I... don't remember, Ma'am!" he insisted.
"Are you on the dagga?" Lucinda suddenly demanded, pointing an accusatory finger. "Because if you are, my boy, I'll slup you with an orticle one-one-two raht here, then a further charge for obstruction of an investigation."
"No Ma'am, no drugs," Jim hastily tried to assure her. "I want to say there might have been someone, it almost feels like there was but I can't remember... I honestly can't remember anyone visiting the commander."
"I want him scrinned by medical raht now," Lucinda said to Catherine, ignoring the befuddled ensign altogether. "I'm not sure he's fit for duty, let alone fit to be questioned..."
Despite the difference in rank, Lucinda's investigation meant she was in the position of seniority, and Catherine nodded unhesitatingly.
"What about my rights?" Noakes protested, very much aware he was being spoken about, not addressed directly.
"Your rahts?" Lucinda repeated somewhat incredulously. "Your rahts are being observed, Ensign. You have your JAG representative beside you, a nice cup of tea on the table, and I've not started slupping you around or attaching electrodes to your knatters, have I?" She sighed with exasperation and took a breath. "I tell you what, men, how about a toilet break, eh? Maybe splash some water on your face, park off and have a few minutes alone with your thoughts? Take a moment, then come back and we'll try again. How does thet sound, eh?"
"Uh, yes, Ma'am, I'd like that..."
Getting to his feet, Noakes left the interview room, accompanied by two security officers.
The doors closed albeit with a slight stutter which caught Lucinda's eye, but she looked to Catherine.
"Thet boy's got five minutes to give me some sensible answers when he gets back, or I'm going to Edmiral Stratton to get an injunction to have a Betazoid or a Vulcan go in there and get the answers from him," she advised the JAG officer.
"This is Starfleet, Lieutenant Commander," Catherine stated disapprovingly.
"Ja, Ma'am, thet's raht, this is Starfleet, not the Kay Dee Eff. If it was, your boy would've had a painstick up the ring and a Lethean ripping his mahnd to shreds just now," Lucinda pointed out. "I think he knows something, and I need to know if he's too gaffed to remember, or just being stroppy to protect a third party."
***
As you can see, different dialects, different tempos of speech. Your entry could have been Jak and Daysnur, Azip and Three, D'trel or Omek, any combination, and it would have made no difference, as the way they spoke was too similar to distinguish an individual voice for each, if that makes sense?
The next bit is a double-edged piece of advice I once read from someone somewhere, that a person can only 'write what they know'... Now on the one hand, I would be the first to say that an author doesn't have to be [insert job here] to write a character who is, as they can research. But on the other hand, some things, like relationships, do require some personal experience to be able to write convincingly. Not really sure what I can suggest to develop that area, short of either being in a relationship, as even reading/watching movies don't always give a true to life example of what life in a relationship is like...
But again, supremely angry at B&B, I watched "Unexpected" last week and was appalled that anybody thought that what happened to Trip was FUNNY (dude got r*ped, pregnancy was likely to kill him due to Bad Biology, and nobody even CONSIDERED aborting...scumbags), so I was kind of running on rage at everything ENT and decided to go whole-hog the other way with the Nausicaans.
Hence Jak's parents being Mother Russia and Kane. I know what you're getting at, and the action of this story was pretty split-up and disjointed, which removed the opportunity for more voices...
On the other hand, I don't really like writing dialect. One too many RA Salvatore novels, struggling to understand Cattie-Brie...just a personal thing, I guess, and it seems to have worked against me here.
Nah, I get it. This is something that I need first-hand for and don't have it.
Sort of like how I get Omek really well, especially in situations like ULC 8, because there's so much ME in him. His friendship with D'trel is me with my friends; I would lay and have laid down anything for them. Skipped out on a Bio extra-credit lecture about birds to comfort my depressed, sick friend and didn't regret it for a second (as an example). I get being friends.
I don't get intimate relationships.
Thank you for the advice!
I guess all I can suggest is not to let them say what you'd say, but let them find their own voices more
Only thing I can suggest (which is something I do) is to shift plot focus so moments like that aren't so much the focus, but of course, that's not always easy depending on what the plot insists (I'm still not convinced I handled Ael and Channery's date well...) But no worries, always happy to give critique :cool:
On that note...anyone else have thoughts? /shamelessplug And yeah, I do a lot better with more space to work through characters...I've been working on this, and I like to think I'm normally better at it.
yeah...again, I wasn't terribly happy with this but I wanted it out of my head.
Gives me a lesson for later, at least! *grinning smiley*
And thanks. *smiley*
Yeah, when I really let D'trel go...she scares me, man. :eek:
Anyway, hope you liked the action, at least. That's something I like to think I'm good at.
You don't take it quite that far, marcus (and fortunately the rest of the story is in standard American English, which helps), but if I didn't have first-hand experience talking to Latinos on sites, for instance, some of the dialect in your "Out in the Cold" piece might've been fairly hard to read.
I've gone with a slightly different approach with regional characters, which is not try to phonetically write the dialect, but rather say they've got an accent and throw in regional slang here and there (e.g. Warragul calling breakfast "brekkie", Juno Ichigaki and "ag shame"). Another thing I like to do is describe regional traits, e.g. VADM. Reynolds' facial tattoos to indicate a Maori background.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I have to admit, I actually can't think of which piece you're meaning, as I don't tend to use many Latino characters...
Absolutely, and for the most part, Lulu (deliberately) uses a fair bit of regional slang, but I think sometimes a little phonetics just helps to illustrate certain sounds. Jules Verne must've mentioned that Ned Land was Canadian on just about every page of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, but I actually found that more intrusive and needlessly highlighting, than had Ned simply asked "What's this all aboot, eh?"
No worries :cool: There's something to be said for stretching one's boundaries, but also something to be said for playing to one's strengths :cool: And I definitely understand the feeling of sometimes just having to write something just to 'get it out'
Yeah...if I didn't have summer internships to look for, The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs to write, and a metric butt ton of other stuff to do, I'd probably have spent more time on it, but as it was I just wanted it out of my head and so I added D'trel killing some Kazon because I don't like the Kazon.
But yeah, definitely not writing in my comfort zone here, and hey, great learning experience!
Learning is always good :cool:
I don't really think anyone likes the Kazon...they're stupid, misogynistic space pirates (which leads to Unfortunate Implications) with bad hair and worse hygiene. Certainly none of my characters likes them (well, except Three, who'll eat them with mango chutney if they've had a bath. It's a modified version of a Gordon Ramsay steak recipe, y'see).
And yes, learning is awesome.
Yup :cool:
Plus, they're successful space pirates in an area near Klingon space. That takes skill, engineering and medical knowledge, and BALLS.
The Kazon? They don't even look scary! They're at best a minor threat to shipping in the boondocks of the galaxy!
In "The Mysterious Case of Neelix's Lungs", we're using the Kazon as the Mooks for a race of self-assured elitist bigots who prefer to pretend that they're significant on a galactic scale. It's...pretty fun, actually. And we're playing the Kazon relentlessly straight, so they're still morons but the implications of sexist violent morons capturing women (i.e. on Ocampa Prime) are, ah, dealt with.
*fondly remembers writing the scene where Gul Evek does the four-lights bit on a Kazon prisoner out of sheer rage*
Anyway...you're right, they could've been more, but as-is they're a joke at best and have been since their introduction.
Yeah, I think the writers really dropped the ball on that (well, that's a given m
for most of Voyager's writing, really) but IMHO the idea of various sects and squads of Kazon chasing Voyager, nipping at their heels all the way, gradually wearing them down, so the crew (who are comfortable and complacent in their Federation Supremacy) realise and know that once the ship stops, they're getting boarded and f**ked up, would have been much more compelling :cool:
Exactly. To be starfaring, be it by their own design or through stolen ships, would at least require a certain amount of intelligence which the Kazon were never shown to have. Sure, a load of Somali pirates against a US battleship is likely to get blown out of the water, but those same pirates against say a light frigate or coastguard cutter, and the tables would be dramatically turned...
There's a reason why Stadi wants to kill them all. She saw into one of their minds on Ocampa Prime.
Yeah, we actually went with something like that in MCNL; Stadi quickly realizes that she can't used Federation standards around the Kazon--and Gul Evek never had Federation standards, he's a Cardassian patriot to the core. Hurt his men, hurt or insult Cardassia, and he obliterates you.
C.F. Maje Jal Jabin getting the electric chair, and the Kazon prisoner in chapter 6 getting tortured with electricity because Evek is done with those r*pist thugs.