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i want the shuttlebay back on esd
shinnok918
Member Posts: 312 Arc User
so for a while we were enjoying being able to go into the shuttlebay on ESD. then you guys took that from us. i want an official reason why. really, those of us that figured out how to do that liked it.
give us back the shuttlebay, not the stupid "emergency transport"
give us back the shuttlebay, not the stupid "emergency transport"
Post edited by shinnok918 on
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It was removed because we were never meant to go there to begin with. The shuttles they use in the ESD shuttle bay is not to player's scale and the Devs felt it too immersion breaking to stand next to a shuttle that comes up to your shoulder.
It is an illusion. A mirage. A trick using perspective. The shuttlebay is window dressing. It is a background. It is artificial. Like plywood houses on a movie set. The shuttlebay is like the "model towns" used in Best Korea or China during the Great Leap Forward. It is there to look pretty, but it is only superficial. Not functional. It is arranged in a way that it looks best from the perspective we are intended to look at it from, but once you actually inspect it -- the illusion is shattered forever.
The shuttlebay is like the Truman Show. Tacofangs is obligated to make sure the environment is portrayed in a fashion that it looks convincing and realistic, and it is also his obligation to make sure we see the shuttlebay (and numerous other environmental art displays) from the perspective intended, which does include using invisible walls or some other technical skill.
You can hate the shuttlebay exploit fixes all you like. You can hate Cryptic for doing that. But all you end up doing is complain that you can't see how the magician performs their tricks. All you do is give them less reason to create awe-inspiring environmental artwork similar to the shuttlebay due to the possibility of these exploits being found in them -- and having conversations exactly like this one as a result.
You had to figure out how to do it, that alone should tell you you weren't supposed to go there... Unless you are a brainless moron...
But the they would have needed another part of the base serving as a backdrop to create the illusion of an open and ongoing giant spacestation.
And then people would have complained about nit being able to go there, too, and so on.
The only reason the shuttlebay looks as big and gorgeous as it does, is that the artist got carried away a bit with it.
Originally it was supposed to be much less impressive.
if you were to stand next to a danube runabout, it would have to be a bit larger then what it appears in a few of the missions where runabouts are docked or landed. same with that class 8 shuttle on vulcan at the beginning of your career in starfleet.
if you were to make them to scale, the class 8 shuttle would need to be much bigger then it is and a bit longer in length.
the runabout would be even larger, trying to jump on the window should be nigh impossible due to the shape of the runabout. it needs an upscale size of about 3x the current size.
all of this doesnt do the size of the esds upper section any favors either, from outer hull to inner hull to the space where all the starships are kept, it looks like about 50 meters and most of it is empty space. i doubt such a large station has in relative terms, paper thin walls protecting it, otherwise the station would be carved up like a roast without even trying. so get rid of the shuttle bay and add more depth to the station. but alas, it costs money.. no way cryptic are going to go for that unless its what they want.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
that's one feature of ESD that I could not understand why they closed it off to players, having explored the area while it was under construction on tribble I will say it is a very large area and even if not used for anything else it is ideal for role play.
from what I see of it in tribble all that was needed a force field over the docking bays at the rear to stop players intentionally or accidentally falling into space and a suitable stairway for players to gain access to and from the area.
if you could see the detail and views you get inside the area that you just cannot get from the current vantage points you would know what a totally waisted opertunity this is.
oh contraire having been in the area on tribble I can say the shuttles are completely to scale and anyone who says otherwise has obviously never been there.
at least the ones I see on tribble were, even so I am sure it would not take much to tweak the shuttles slightly if this is the case.
yet again this is wrong having explored the area on tribble I can say that the perspectives inside are no different from the views you get from the current vantage points and are very convincing and realistic, don't forget even in the Truman Show it was real enough to convince Truman it was real until it fell apart, there is no difference in the res then anywhere else you can go and it is far from low-res and low-quality.
to give you a clue I would estimate the floor space in the area is approximately at least equal to that of the main area from the doors of club 47 to the doors of the exchange and from the entrance of the command area to the rear of the ship selection area, it may even be slightly larger but I am working from memory.
if you would liken it to a model town it would have to be a lifesize model town is all I can say.
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hey i think we found a developer's player account. seriously. for THIS much of a slanted response you have to be on cryptic's payroll, possibly making the big bucks. who knows. either way as a couple of players have pointed out ur whole argument starts to lose integrity upon closer inspection. heck all they really have to do is put in functioning turbolift doors....oh wait, they did.
so a wall or 2 and its actually a very cool area to explore. what made it cooler was the fact u had to figure out how to get there.
Mate, Taco explained why he closed it off a long time ago. But if you must know there are still ways and means to get there.
No, he told you a fact. A fact that affects all video games to a degree, at least the 3D ones.
Too many games I remember where you can see something cool in the distance but once you go no-clip you realize there was nothing else to it.
Its an illusion and its meant to look good from a certain POV. To make the world/map look bigger than it really is. Half-Life (especially HL2) had TONS of such locations. They managed to make the game look like a huge world you traversed without making it feel like seperate maps. Not many games can pull that off convincingly, but they did. All with some low-res models in the background. Seriously, go noclip in any source engine game and have a look at the background models, now THAT is illusion shattering. The comparison to fake movie set buildings is also spot on.
I think the real illusion here is you. You are so paranoid in your response, you rival a Tal Shiar agent. Maybe you are who isn't what he seems to be? :eek:
Icionans on Cryptics payroll... thats a good one.
"Let them eat static!"
no, Iconian is recalling Taco's reply. Taco was PISSED people got in there. It was never meant to be accessible.
I got into the shuttle bay. It was fun. I wouldn't call it an exploit getting in there - that's just hyperbole - but it should have been clear to everyone that it wasn't a location that was meant to be explored. Does the OP really think that players were MEANT to be able to jump through the floor and fall into the ship docking area underneath, or make the guys doing shuttle repairs dance using a Subspace Party Amp?
It was fun for a while. It wasn't costing Cryptic money and it wasn't damaging the game. Then people came on the forums bragging that they'd got into the shuttle bay and it got fixed.
There's a lesson somewhere.
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Anyone who accuses Iconians of being on cryptics payroll obviously has not been paying attention. :P
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Well, there it is. The stupidest ****ing thing I will read all day.
Hard mode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7ghfmg7Jlc
And don't think for a second that people wouldn't complain of the missing polygons if they were allowed there.
You're embarrassing yourself.
What makes you think that the shuttlebay is the only one on ESD? We only see a tiny part of the station, so it stands to reason that there are more (And larger ones at that) that are located elsewhere.
thread link plz and ill be happy.
Sure.
First one:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1076881
And his expanded answer:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=16964521&postcount=15
We aren't getting into the shuttle bay. It was never built for us to be there.
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This is complete and utter bullfaeces for two reasons:
First, if they were worried about scale - ever - we would never have been given ships with interior areas so bloody huge.
We complained about the enormous sizes of bridges and ship interiors (mission interiors, we didn't actually have our own ship interiors for a few years - for those that didn't know) in BETA. The incredibly poor and lazy excuse was that the character creator allows for really tall characters, so they had to make really big interiors. I'll add this: Because they didn't know how to properly design and code a game where there wouldn't be camera issues, graphics clipping and so forth, like a decent developer would.
If they were worried about immersion, there would NEVER have been so much TRIBBLE popping up in our faces Every.Single.Time we get near a planet, or anomaly, or, well, anything.
Every single time I get near a planet in sector space and a big info box pops up, it breaks immersion (and now they do it even MORE with the Foundry popups).
Stop popping TRIBBLE up in my face. The interface is already far too busy (we complained about THAT in Beta, too).
So for five years Cryptic has done everything possible to destroy any sense of immersion in STO. Our main complaints back in Beta about scaling and such was that it distracted from our immersion. They didn't care about it then, they don't care about it now. It's just an excuse.
That said, it surprises me that they DON'T let us in to the shuttlebay. Believe it or not, the views of the docking interior of ESD from inside the shuttlebay are really something. Much better than the view available to us now.
Add a little cafe or something in the shuttlebay where people can go in and enjoy the views. It's virtual space - it can be as big as you want it to me.
How about an ESD that has things to do, mini-games, mini-missions, shuttle pilot training, and so on, that gives ESD the huge feeling it should have instead of...
What am I saying? It's STO. They don't care about making it feel right. They just care about making us grind.
Which is why I don't bother any longer.
As others have said, the shuttlebay was never meant to be part of the playable space. It was meant to offer a view further into the station, to make the station feel as though it were a bigger space. This is the same with the walkways up high over the concourse, and various other bits around the station.
The shuttlebay was not meant to be viewed from anywhere other than the balcony behind the Exchange, and as such, was constructed accordingly. There is no real forced perspective going on, except at the far end where a screenshot is used to make it appear that there is more going on that way. (think of a Matte Painting for a movie.) These tricks and such are fewer at the close end, and become more numerous and glaring the further out you go.
There are a lot of holes, and sloppily built parts in the shuttlebay. The whole thing was built faster and more poorly than the rest of the station, precisely because you were never meant to get out there and see it up close.
Yes, there are opening turbolift doors. Thats because we already had them set up for the main concourse, and they were easy to steal for use in the shuttlebay. If you DO manage to get in there, you'll notice that there is no turbolift behind them. . .
All of this is not to say that it would be impossible to make the shuttlebay a viable playable area. What I keep saying is that it is NOT set up that way right now.
But since my explanations seem to so often be labeled as "excuses," here are some screenshots for you:
There's probably supposed to be a wall there.
Where's the walkway that is supposed to accompany that railing?
I'm guessing that this door shouldn't just be venting into space, right?
Matte Paintings are fun!
Should I be able to see stars through the station structure?
As for those claiming our ground scale shuttles are too small, I'm not really sure what to tell you, except that our shuttles either meet, or exceed their canonical dimensions.
The Type 8 is supposed to be 7m long, which works out to about 23 feet. The Danube is 23.1m long, which is roughly 76 feet.
Type 8 and Danube lengths
In the image above, there is a whitebox plane placed at 0 along the Z (Blue) axis. The back end of each shuttle was placed against that plane. Then that plane was duplicated, and moved along 6" increments to the front of the ship. The blue numbers (highlighted with big red boxes) on the right, shows the position of that front white box plane, giving you the length of the ship in game.
Our type 8 is pretty much spot on. Our Danube is oversized by a good 15 feet.
The feeling that they are so small is due (imo) mainly to the camera freedoms you enjoy in a 3rd person game. Next time you find one of these in game, run up next to it, and switch to shooter mode.
Even from that distance!
That or make accessible the Starfleet Academy Shuttlebay on the ground map
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According to your signature, you've been part of the community for around 7 years
How did you manage to stay this long with all these complaints that you say have existed since Beta?