Well even though the increase in effectiveness of TB in STF give a somewhat fresh gaming experience I'm also under the impression that they overdid it a bit.
If you look at tribble patch notes from this week they finally tend to the fact that the BO of the Planet Killers in VCE now not crit at 100% like the players ability does annymore. Well thanks. I will miss all these one shots after how long?
May I conclude that we can see an adjustment to TB of NPCs by next Christmas as well then?
Changing the game rules constantly surely is a charming way to see that peeps adjust their upgradeable gear and keep on spending dil constantly.
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Point of order: TB is Tractor Beam. You're all using it wrong. TBR is Tractor Beam Repulsors, as well.
Tachyon Beam does not use TB as an acronym because that is already taken by a far more useful skill so far. This has been used for years.
At beast you could shorten it to TachBm or Tach or somesuch, but TB is not a valid use. I'm sorry, but it just keeps happening in this thread. I felt I had to point it out.
Oh, 0.4 and not 1.0...that would change what I had going there...so probably closer to 8 pulses for it rather than just the 3.
13211 / 2 = 6606 / 8 = 826 / 0.065 = 12707 per pulse then...given his 187 PI, eh?
The numbers don't have to be as high as that because they were also firing, so the shield damage would be the sum of both things.
Now, to those thinking that this is a good thing against the DPS race, think again. My best counter was precisely DPS. In other words, the most effective counter was hitting an attack pattern to get the extra hitpoints (specialization tree pilot) to prevent hull damage, and blowing them up right away. After they blow up it really doesn't matter what they did to my shields.
And note that my ship is not built for DPS, so this works even better for one that is.
Well even though the increase in effectiveness of TB
See my reply in the other thread. TB = Tractor Beam. It always has. TB has been in use for YEARS as Tractor Beam. TBR is even Tractor Beam Repulsors. Stop calling Tachyon Beam TB, please. It's just wrong. You might as well call Dust to Dust an STF.
See my reply in the other thread. TB = Tractor Beam. It always has. TB has been in use for YEARS as Tractor Beam. TBR is even Tractor Beam Repulsors. Stop calling Tachyon Beam TB, please. It's just wrong. You might as well call Dust to Dust an STF.
Then how should we address it? TCB perhaps?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The long and short of it is, there isn't always an acronym for everything. If you must shorten it -- if it's compulsive for you -- try TachB, or Tachy, or something. TB is simply incorrect. I'm not limiting what you can use, I'm just informing what is not correct to use because it is already taken.
Most simply type out Tachyon Beam. It's just the way of it.
The long and short of it is, there isn't always an acronym for everything. If you must shorten it -- if it's compulsive for you -- try TachB, or Tachy, or something. TB is simply incorrect. I'm not limiting what you can use, I'm just informing what is not correct to use because it is already taken.
Most simply type out Tachyon Beam. It's just the way of it.
Alphabetically, T->a<-chyon Beam has more right to TB than T->r<-actor Beam.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
The long and short of it is, there isn't always an acronym for everything. If you must shorten it -- if it's compulsive for you -- try TachB, or Tachy, or something. TB is simply incorrect. I'm not limiting what you can use, I'm just informing what is not correct to use because it is already taken.
Most simply type out Tachyon Beam. It's just the way of it.
We could just call it "Bye Bye Shields Beam" and be done with it.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
That comes down how one what differentiate a decent sci from a good sci, eh?
A decent Sci can help the team without firing weapons, a good sci however knows how to make dps with his weapons without negatively impacting his sci-proficiency. Its like having a sci with 90% sciskill and <2k, or one with 90% sciskill and 10k (and those numbers are taking into account the limited tacskills a sci has, and of course doesnt include dope).
I would guess when he means pure sci, that he simple falls into the first category.
While a decent sci still contributes "enough", the question remains why not optimize it without loosing anything on the sci-side (which is a improvement 1+1>1+0 to make it simple).
It's unfortunate that 10K DPS is the new minimum, but fine, I'll bite and give a recommendation. You can lower a sci build down to about 375 (pick your sci skill) and dish out 10K DPS IF you have six mk XIV beams and 3 MK XIV tac consoles WITHOUT having to use FAW or BO. A part gens build is a special case as you can achieve way higher DPS with them.
P.S. Bort: while you're at it can you limit shield neutralizers to 1 stack maximum? And when tachyon is used have it reset the shield neutralizer cooldown back to full? Getting hit with so many tachyons and neutralizers back to back is absurdly OP! I had what looked like at least 3 stacks of neutralizer going last night and it was not fun when every heal I had was on cooldown.
I disagree. Every time NPCs abilities actually make players think people bring out the nerf pitchforks. PvP players in general know how to deal with these kinds of abilities, but PvE players get hit with any little sci ability and go bonkers. This kind of ability boost combined with a more moderate hit point boost to NPC and a somewhat better AI was what would have made Advanced/Elite queues better. It would have forced teams to include ALL roles including science and move players a away from the DPS race.
I ask for the contrary. Give NPCs for level 50-60 players commander and lt. cmdr level abilites (III) and boost then a bit so that they require teamwork or more smart usage of abilities. The current state where most NPCs throw really weak (designed 4 years ago) abilities that are completely unskilled is why the PvE gameplay is a spacebar smash DPS race.
List of science abilites that need a boost Needs a buff for NPCs only (Players are fine):
Jam Targeting Sensors
Feedback Pulse
Scramble Sensors
Energy Siphon
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Tyken's Rift
Gravity Wel
Needs an overall buff:
Photonic Shockwave
Viral Matrix
Mask Energy Signature
Charged Particle Burst
Lets hope that reduce that by a multiplier of 10 sometime soon. Otherwise? Yeah... your name seems appropriate after the latest change.
In mean time BBSB it is.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I'm curious to see the basic balance design in this game. To quote City of Heroes' formula back in the day:
The balance vision is that three even-con minions are a fair fight, or one minion and a lieutenant, and a lone boss should be a fairly easy target for a duo. (source)
Seeing CoH was a Cryptic game and some resemblances I get from soloing in story missions (three minion ships, or one lt ship and a minion), my take is that the above somewhat holds true for STO. So why should a Sphere (a minion or lt type NPC) be strong than a player that builds for the same purpose? (Players can't reach the amount of shield drain spheres currently do.) That insane power would be something for the very least an Elite Boss, one that can nullify your shields in an instant; or a rare minion that only spawns by one or two per group (think Sappers in CoH). Not to an NPC that commonly spawns in a map.
I disagree. Every time NPCs abilities actually make players think people bring out the nerf pitchforks. PvP players in general know how to deal with these kinds of abilities, but PvE players get hit with any little sci ability and go bonkers.
Oh, BS and you know it.
Cryptic's idea of gameplay is one hit kills. Do those require thought? No. You can't defend against them. Nothing you can do can stop them, prevent them, bypass them, or escape them. You're dead. Respawn and charge into the meat grinder again.
How does that require any thought? And the hitpoint wall they've introduced? That's the opposite of thought-requiring (to implement or to play against, either one). Your PvP ego-stroking there is also BS since it's 99% the PvP whiner crowd that gets almost everything nerfed or gimped in this game in a selfish attempt to not have to deal with something.
This "little sci ability" as you try to dismiss it, is in fact stripping your entire shield strength instantly, repeatedly, and for the duration of combat. You cannot prevent it, you cannot avoid it, or bypass it. There is no thought to it. You're just without shields.
Why are shields in the game, again? Tell me that? Oh, that's right. So when an NPC "feature" strips them entirely for the duration, you tell me whether that's "smart" or "bull****" -- because everybody else that plays this game (and doesn't pull the PvP ego-stroke move) thinks it's the "bull****" version.
Psh.. Thought inducing my TRIBBLE. And you know better. A facetious claim if ever there was one.
TB isnt a weakness to FAWBoats, not to correctly build ones at least. There is only a single weakness a FAWBoat has, but as a pvper you should be well aware of the universal weakness of all energyweapon-based-ships.
Oh, I know what you're talking about. But I'm just relishing all the panic stricken posts from people that don't know what to do in clearing a simple hazard :cool:
Dealing with the buffed up Tachyon Beam, even from multiple sources, is easy. But apparently the game has never tested players enough judging by the said panic stricken posts on the boards. There are people saying this was a conspiracy to make you buy Command Ships and/or go into Command Specialization Abilities. But it's not. This is all remedied by even ensign level abilities that are core and basic to the game and usable on any ship. And sometimes you probably don't even need to do that.
Like I said, I'm relishing all the anguish. When you do AOE spam and don't know how to deal with any danger that comes your way, I have no sympathy. This is whether you're a DPS FAWBoat or a Science Vessel doing lots of CC+AOE. It doesn't matter.
the ISA is perfect now , the npc's need even more improvements , and a drop in hp , that would balance things out , people will start using healers , and tanks , no more TRIBBLE dps.
it's a good start to improve this game , and the balances between classes , all instances should have some npc skill improvements like the tachyon beam at borgs , that way people will actually learn what their skills do , and for what are some stats good for ...
yes i understand is hard for some to remember more than BFAW and Antiproton 4x[crtd] , it might be even harder for them to read the skills , or look on wiki for details , but they will do it after a time , so its for their own good to improve their ability to think , and stop copy-paste from others .
You must think when you build a ship , and skills , whats going to happen ... if you go full dps , than you will be less resilient , if you go as tank , you wont be able to kill everything , but you will survive .But who thinks at defence when the spheres and cubes dont even scrath your shield?
Allsow it will improve team work , people will start helping eachother , and care about their team mate ... this is an MMO afterall isn't it? It's not a single rpg , where you have a chat to talk with others , who allsow play their own solo game .
It's unfortunate that 10K DPS is the new minimum, but fine, I'll bite and give a recommendation. You can lower a sci build down to about 375 (pick your sci skill) and dish out 10K DPS IF you have six mk XIV beams and 3 MK XIV tac consoles WITHOUT having to use FAW or BO. A part gens build is a special case as you can achieve way higher DPS with them.
I was more thinking along the lines of torpedos, there are some strong, shieldbypassing (primary and secondary effects included) out there. Require 1 Weapon power, but should have a ens. or lt. tac BO on board. Since this is the case (except for the wells). Beam target X can be used with an omnibeam.
I guess the point where our thinking part ways is by the choice of BO-Abilities. I guess you wouldnt part from beam target X, while I find them useless against most enemies, and against those where it is useful the build-in ones are enough (in my opinion).
Y'know, Tachyon Beam might've been changed, but I really don't think that a bunch of spheres or anything are the issue. (That said, if VD is right and there is some kind of misplaced decimal, or the scaling is wrong for NPCs, then that IS a BUG, and should be fixed like ANY other BUG should be. Not a 'nerf due to whining', a BUG.)
NPCs aren't any different otherwise, right? Aren't they still huge bags of hull and shield HP? And still just as mindless and easy to predict? The spheres at least might have a powered-up Tachyon Beam, but otherwise they are totally the same thing. All they will do is still merely fly around and spam their abilities, no matter what those abilities are.
Also, how many people are using Tachyon Beam after last week's patch that were not using it before? If so, where do you use it, and do you spec into it as well? Are you seeing it really be that useful against NPCs if you are using it in PvE? Or how about PvP against other players?
Tachyon Beam may have been changed, but what has really changed in the game?
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Y'know, Tachyon Beam might've been changed, but I really don't think that a bunch of spheres or anything are the issue. (That said, if VD is right and there is some kind of misplaced decimal, or the scaling is wrong for NPCs, then that IS a BUG, and should be fixed like ANY other BUG should be. Not a 'nerf due to whining', a BUG.)
NPCs aren't any different otherwise, right? Aren't they still huge bags of hull and shield HP? And still just as mindless and easy to predict? The spheres at least might have a powered-up Tachyon Beam, but otherwise they are totally the same thing. All they will do is still merely fly around and spam their abilities, no matter what those abilities are.
Also, how many people are using Tachyon Beam after last week's patch that were not using it before? If so, where do you use it, and do you spec into it as well? Are you seeing it really be that useful against NPCs if you are using it in PvE? Or how about PvP against other players?
Tachyon Beam may have been changed, but what has really changed in the game?
With my KDF drain boat and the solanae deflector. I use tachyon beam for 2 reasons.
1) It's great on bosses or anything else with lots of shields. It boosts the DPS of the entire team in ISA when the tac cube has no shields. Also just messing around in the voth BZ I can strip the shilds off of the bulwark in 1 cycle and just of few cycles of Tachyon beam will take the shields off of a Citadel Dreadnought.
2) the lowered CD helps the doff that lowers the CD on deflector powers.
It also buffed the Tachyon beam on Delta flyers.
I'm finding tachyon beam useful in both PvP and PvE.
Awesome! I actually got Advanced Delta Flyers on a whim to test them out with my new Geneva (elite scorps were dying too quick). Glad to hear Tachyon got boosted for them too
NPCs aren't any different otherwise, right? Aren't they still huge bags of hull and shield HP? And still just as mindless and easy to predict? The spheres at least might have a powered-up Tachyon Beam, but otherwise they are totally the same thing. All they will do is still merely fly around and spam their abilities, no matter what those abilities are.
Heh, I wouldn't say NPCs spam anything. :P
Sure, if you've got 5 of them...they're all likely to do the same thing at the same time there. 5 TachB's, 5 Torps...wheeee, fun!
But their base damage, their attacks per second (abilities used), tends to be damn low compared to players...even when you start grouping them up.
Since the change I've died twice in one run and that's it; and for that, I still blame the latency cause I was doing my madman attempt to activate the heals I had that just went nowhere. That was on the Hazari Destroyer - no Cruiser/Carrier has had an issue. Cause I'm used to trying to build as the aggromagnet, and my shields start going wonky back in mid January - so I'd been upping my hull game since then. Yeah, that omgherd issue I had gave me some time to prepare that other folks might not have had...so this didn't blindside me like it could have some folks out there.
There are some folks in this thread that want to make it a PvP Heroes vs. PvE Heroes kind of fight, which I think is kind of a distraction...they've got some beef with the DPS folks, and it's going to get the average player slaughtered.
I had a run earlier...the other 4 guys combined for 7 deaths...they weren't DPS League folks, they were just the average player - and - well, it probably hit them like a freight train carrying Mack trucks. Three of them popped within a couple of seconds of each other at one point.
It may be a thought that the easiest way to deal with ludicrous DPS is to make the NPCs more deadly...but what is that going to do to the little guy out there?
I'm all for more difficult mobs, Hell, what I just said seems contradictory to something else I said recently where I felt Normal should be the current Advanced, Advanced should be the current Elite, and they should create something new for Elite. Cause Normal should be more difficult than a Mission, then you go Advanced, and then you go Elite. I want tall the stuff to mean something there...
...this, though, I feel like I forced to fly a 70%+ aggrotank or I'm going to start feeling bad (the one where the other guys died seven times, I wanted to do some DPS and so I was only pulling 48% aggro/48% damage).
And the whole thing, Intel, Command, this...thinking about the potential skill revamp - has me wondering if they're heading toward dumbing down the game into the mindless MMO Trinity.
Better than panic stricken "veteran players" that don't know what to do when one of the most basic of science abilities are used on you.
Let me add that the FOTM type of ship: Cruisers, can easily take these Tachyon Beam attacks and laugh it off. You don't need a SCI leaning Cruiser to do this. You don't need an excessively heavy ENG Crusier like the T5 Galaxy to do this. You don't need a TAC Cruiser to laugh this off. Cruisers have the capacity to take the FULL BRUNT of all this Tachyon Beam nonsense and come out quite well.
Without 1 point into Command / Intel Specialization Trees.
Without using Command / Intel abilities.
Not requiring a gimmick ship.
Do you know what your abilities can do? Because BFAW will not necessarily take care of this issue.
Do you know what your abilities can do? Because BFAW will not necessarily take care of this issue.
I don't know if I'm imagining it, but it seems like you're going pretty hard after the one guy. If that's the case, it's kind of silly looking, imho. If he were some DPS nublet that /facerolled his spacebar and the littlest change to NPCs caused him to bunch his panties, then yeah - I'd probably be right there trying to stay just on this side of requiring mod intervention while laughing my TRIBBLE off at him.
I'm using FAW. Course, I'm using FAW1. Course, FAW1 is bugged...not taking into account the Rarity of the weapon, so it's doing less DPV and thus less DPS than it should be. Am I using that bugged FAW1 to rock the DPS charts? Nope, I'm using it to try to hold aggro so others that aren't using FAW can rock the DPS charts.
Know what happens when I don't use FAW...here's an example from my last two runs:
w/o FAW1
Player Me) 0 deaths
Player 1 death
Player C) 2 deaths
Player D) 1 death
Player E) 3 deaths
w/ FAW1
Player A) 0 deaths
Player Me) 0 deaths
Player C) 0 deaths
Player D) 0 deaths
Player E) 0 deaths
So uh yeah, I'd have to disagree...me using FAW1 there, takes care of quite a few issues for folks, eh?
And the one guy, if that was the guy you were going after in particular as many in the various threads which were merged have been, well - he's a much better tank than I am because of who he has to tank for...he's holding aggro on folks doing 75-100k+ DPS...I'm holding aggro on folks doing 0-40k DPS. He doesn't have the luxury to build like I do.
I just don't get the PvP vs. PvE nor the PvE vs. PvP garbage that goes on with these forums at times.
The PvE vs. PvP folks that appear clueless to the fact that there are PvE folks that might want a balanced game and more of a challenge than just lobbing grenades into a barrel of goldfish.
The PvP vs. PvE folks that appear clueless about just how many totally lolgasmic complaints have been made by folks in the PvP forums about dealing with the simplest things.
If I were a dev, I sure as Hell wouldn't want to interact with this toxic community.
I had a run earlier...the other 4 guys combined for 7 deaths...they weren't DPS League folks, they were just the average player - and - well, it probably hit them like a freight train carrying Mack trucks. Three of them popped within a couple of seconds of each other at one point.
It may be a thought that the easiest way to deal with ludicrous DPS is to make the NPCs more deadly...but what is that going to do to the little guy out there?
(
What they'd need to do, IMO, is change things from where 2/3 of your bonuses to hull capacity/shield cap/hull healing/shield healing/resistances can be obtained from pretty much cheap skill points.
The first problem is seriously the armor curve. It's way too easy to get to 50%. I mean, my sheshar, once it hits attract fire, rests at over 50% resists, and that's with no armor consoles, no BFI, no PH, no HE/APD/APO/A2SIF/EF/A2D/SFM. Bort has said he wants consoles (well, console abilities) to be stronger than boff abilities. But a 100 aux A2SIF1 gives more DR than an epic neutronium, and has a 2/3 uptime innate to it, not to mention that it actually heals. Let alone an A2SIF3 or any other high-ranking boff ability.
I think that taking the general resist formula and tweaking it from 3(.25(75/(150+DRM))^2) to either 3(.25(75/(75 * sqrt(3)+DRM))^2), 3(.25(75/(150+DRM))^1.75), or 3(.25(75/(75 * sqrt(3)+DRM))^1.9), and doubling the skill->DRM ratio and the armor console's armor grant, would make for a better curve. It would punish people rather significantly at the 0->20 DRM range, as they would be negative, but would make going from 50->100 and 100->200 much more worth it. You can really see how gains past 200 start to fall off, as we're approaching the 75% 'cap' on hull DR, but it makes actually slotting armor consoles feel at least potentially worth it. Link to examples with above formulas Also, as that formula is the m(x) used in the long version of damage resist, modifying that would be pretty simple as well.
Next up you want to look at actual hull capacity. You can hit a maximum of 320 to structural integrity. Eighty of that is from consumables (jevonite+skill buffs), leaving it at a realistic ~230. Even the basic dps guide'sskill tree puts 6 points into structural integrity, for a skill of 84. And it's not uncommon to see the delta or assimilated deflector on very high dps toons to get a survivability and power buff. There's the bio-neural infusion circuits, but those are far from unpopular on dps builds anyway. The other source is fleet neutroniums, but, for DR reasons, they're really not worth it. And the skill of 10->12.5 really isn't worth it anyway, per console.
Same basic idea with shield capacity. You can stack it via crafted sci consoles or field generators, but even pre-dr field generators were worthless compared to embassy consoles, especially if you wanted to tank and needed the +th modifier.
And hull healing's the same boat. You can get +20 on a conductive rcs, another 20 from a warp core (actually kind of cool), and +10-12.5 on neutroniums or 20 as stand-alones, but when you compare that to the benefit of extra aux (plasmonic leech), the samsar console, massive weapons power drain resist (assimilated module), +th +Pla sci consoles (even pre-dr, that was a no brainer), or tactical consoles, why bother?
Shield healing at least gets a pass, since you can stack +th emitter arrays, but at the cost of actual capacity differences. So it's a 'pick one or half of both' type of situation.
And it's not like most of that ship is specc'd at damage over survivability; the tradeoffs for damage vs survivability, well, it just feels like a cruiser build is innately very middle of the line on both, yet game mechanics punish moving towards tankiness much harder than they punish moving towards damage.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
This "little sci ability" as you try to dismiss it, is in fact stripping your entire shield strength instantly, repeatedly, and for the duration of combat. You cannot prevent it, you cannot avoid it, or bypass it. There is no thought to it. You're just without shields.
Actually, I'm loving it! No. seriously. The shield drain itself is annoying, but you're not completely without shields for the duration. Especially not if you slot gear (Deflectors, Consoles) that add Power Insulators. And have at least 6/9 in the skill, of course. At around 170 Power Insulators you should be good.
Which is why I love the new shield depletion stuff on NPC's: it forces players to build something else than pure glass cannons (or glass BFAW boats, as the case may be). It's high time NPC's got abilities that can't just be blatantly ignored, as usual.
/Snippity
It's high time NPC's got abilities that can't just be blatantly ignored, as usual.
/Snip
I'd say this.
There's the argument that increased difficulty = NPC's using powers 'properly', and then increased difficulty = increased NPC HP, but when NPC's have monster HP and use powers 'properly' stuff gets mental.
I'm enjoying it more at the minute, I'd probably enjoy it less if there were actual repercussions for exploding....
With my KDF drain boat and the solanae deflector. I use tachyon beam for 2 reasons.
1) It's great on bosses or anything else with lots of shields. It boosts the DPS of the entire team in ISA when the tac cube has no shields. Also just messing around in the voth BZ I can strip the shilds off of the bulwark in 1 cycle and just of few cycles of Tachyon beam will take the shields off of a Citadel Dreadnought.
2) the lowered CD helps the doff that lowers the CD on deflector powers.
It also buffed the Tachyon beam on Delta flyers.
I'm finding tachyon beam useful in both PvP and PvE.
Ah, I hadn't personally done anything with it yet, so I'm glad to see that it is actually worth considering after years of basically being junk.
Sure, if you've got 5 of them...they're all likely to do the same thing at the same time there. 5 TachB's, 5 Torps...wheeee, fun!
But their base damage, their attacks per second (abilities used), tends to be damn low compared to players...even when you start grouping them up.
There are some folks in this thread that want to make it a PvP Heroes vs. PvE Heroes kind of fight, which I think is kind of a distraction...they've got some beef with the DPS folks, and it's going to get the average player slaughtered.
And the whole thing, Intel, Command, this...thinking about the potential skill revamp - has me wondering if they're heading toward dumbing down the game into the mindless MMO Trinity.
Yes, that is true, on an individual basis, NPCs tend to have low DPV. But I say spam in regards to their numbers. To me, that's what I consider spam. Lots of stuff just constantly crammed and used over and over in rapid succession with no real 'brains' behind it. And you are rarely dealing with just one or two at a time. Usually it is in groups, or one powerful NPC with maybe one or two littler ones around it.
Take a Borg cube in a non-STF situation. They can use a Borg Shield Neutralizer on you. Yes there are counters and such, but what happens even after they use it, and even if it is still working on you? They will just mindlessly spam it over and over irregardless on whoever has the aggro. Yes, an HE and such will remove it, but it doesn't change that they can just use it time and again.
NPCs pop EVERY single thing they have the moment they go into combat. Voth ships are a really obvious group who do this. The moment you start into shooting them, they use every nitpicking ability they have right out of the starting gate, and keep doing it anytime it all comes off cooldown.
Though yes, I do agree on the whole 'PvPers vs. PvEers' thing. I'm honestly shocked people actually think they do listen to PvPers (what few are left), and I also wonder how many threads we will see what the 'plasma doping' and EAP fix goes through (only for people to start passing the blame around and call them 'nerfs'). Far too much 'us vs. them' mentality sometimes around here.
I dunno if I would call it a 'mindless MMO trinity' though.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I dunno if I would call it a 'mindless MMO trinity' though.
The potential for a skill revamp concerns me...it was meant literally as a dumbed down version of the MMO Trinity, which I'm not a fan of it in the first place - but I kind of dig how STO allows for a more natural creation of those roles if somebody wants to run them rather than the canned way it's done in many games.
Comments
If you look at tribble patch notes from this week they finally tend to the fact that the BO of the Planet Killers in VCE now not crit at 100% like the players ability does annymore. Well thanks. I will miss all these one shots after how long?
May I conclude that we can see an adjustment to TB of NPCs by next Christmas as well then?
Changing the game rules constantly surely is a charming way to see that peeps adjust their upgradeable gear and keep on spending dil constantly.
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Tachyon Beam does not use TB as an acronym because that is already taken by a far more useful skill so far. This has been used for years.
At beast you could shorten it to TachBm or Tach or somesuch, but TB is not a valid use. I'm sorry, but it just keeps happening in this thread. I felt I had to point it out.
The numbers don't have to be as high as that because they were also firing, so the shield damage would be the sum of both things.
Now, to those thinking that this is a good thing against the DPS race, think again. My best counter was precisely DPS. In other words, the most effective counter was hitting an attack pattern to get the extra hitpoints (specialization tree pilot) to prevent hull damage, and blowing them up right away. After they blow up it really doesn't matter what they did to my shields.
And note that my ship is not built for DPS, so this works even better for one that is.
See my reply in the other thread. TB = Tractor Beam. It always has. TB has been in use for YEARS as Tractor Beam. TBR is even Tractor Beam Repulsors. Stop calling Tachyon Beam TB, please. It's just wrong. You might as well call Dust to Dust an STF.
Then how should we address it? TCB perhaps?
Most simply type out Tachyon Beam. It's just the way of it.
Alphabetically, T->a<-chyon Beam has more right to TB than T->r<-actor Beam.
We could just call it "Bye Bye Shields Beam" and be done with it.
Lets hope that reduce that by a multiplier of 10 sometime soon. Otherwise? Yeah... your name seems appropriate after the latest change.
It's unfortunate that 10K DPS is the new minimum, but fine, I'll bite and give a recommendation. You can lower a sci build down to about 375 (pick your sci skill) and dish out 10K DPS IF you have six mk XIV beams and 3 MK XIV tac consoles WITHOUT having to use FAW or BO. A part gens build is a special case as you can achieve way higher DPS with them.
I disagree. Every time NPCs abilities actually make players think people bring out the nerf pitchforks. PvP players in general know how to deal with these kinds of abilities, but PvE players get hit with any little sci ability and go bonkers. This kind of ability boost combined with a more moderate hit point boost to NPC and a somewhat better AI was what would have made Advanced/Elite queues better. It would have forced teams to include ALL roles including science and move players a away from the DPS race.
I ask for the contrary. Give NPCs for level 50-60 players commander and lt. cmdr level abilites (III) and boost then a bit so that they require teamwork or more smart usage of abilities. The current state where most NPCs throw really weak (designed 4 years ago) abilities that are completely unskilled is why the PvE gameplay is a spacebar smash DPS race.
List of science abilites that need a boost
Needs a buff for NPCs only (Players are fine):
Jam Targeting Sensors
Feedback Pulse
Scramble Sensors
Energy Siphon
Tractor Beam Repulsors
Tyken's Rift
Gravity Wel
Needs an overall buff:
Photonic Shockwave
Viral Matrix
Mask Energy Signature
Charged Particle Burst
In mean time BBSB it is.
Seeing CoH was a Cryptic game and some resemblances I get from soloing in story missions (three minion ships, or one lt ship and a minion), my take is that the above somewhat holds true for STO. So why should a Sphere (a minion or lt type NPC) be strong than a player that builds for the same purpose? (Players can't reach the amount of shield drain spheres currently do.) That insane power would be something for the very least an Elite Boss, one that can nullify your shields in an instant; or a rare minion that only spawns by one or two per group (think Sappers in CoH). Not to an NPC that commonly spawns in a map.
STO Screenshot Archive
Oh, BS and you know it.
Cryptic's idea of gameplay is one hit kills. Do those require thought? No. You can't defend against them. Nothing you can do can stop them, prevent them, bypass them, or escape them. You're dead. Respawn and charge into the meat grinder again.
How does that require any thought? And the hitpoint wall they've introduced? That's the opposite of thought-requiring (to implement or to play against, either one). Your PvP ego-stroking there is also BS since it's 99% the PvP whiner crowd that gets almost everything nerfed or gimped in this game in a selfish attempt to not have to deal with something.
This "little sci ability" as you try to dismiss it, is in fact stripping your entire shield strength instantly, repeatedly, and for the duration of combat. You cannot prevent it, you cannot avoid it, or bypass it. There is no thought to it. You're just without shields.
Why are shields in the game, again? Tell me that? Oh, that's right. So when an NPC "feature" strips them entirely for the duration, you tell me whether that's "smart" or "bull****" -- because everybody else that plays this game (and doesn't pull the PvP ego-stroke move) thinks it's the "bull****" version.
Psh.. Thought inducing my TRIBBLE. And you know better. A facetious claim if ever there was one.
Oh, I know what you're talking about. But I'm just relishing all the panic stricken posts from people that don't know what to do in clearing a simple hazard :cool:
Dealing with the buffed up Tachyon Beam, even from multiple sources, is easy. But apparently the game has never tested players enough judging by the said panic stricken posts on the boards. There are people saying this was a conspiracy to make you buy Command Ships and/or go into Command Specialization Abilities. But it's not. This is all remedied by even ensign level abilities that are core and basic to the game and usable on any ship. And sometimes you probably don't even need to do that.
Like I said, I'm relishing all the anguish. When you do AOE spam and don't know how to deal with any danger that comes your way, I have no sympathy. This is whether you're a DPS FAWBoat or a Science Vessel doing lots of CC+AOE. It doesn't matter.
The STO Playerbase Panics.
In all seriousness Cryptic: Keep it up.
it's a good start to improve this game , and the balances between classes , all instances should have some npc skill improvements like the tachyon beam at borgs , that way people will actually learn what their skills do , and for what are some stats good for ...
yes i understand is hard for some to remember more than BFAW and Antiproton 4x[crtd] , it might be even harder for them to read the skills , or look on wiki for details , but they will do it after a time , so its for their own good to improve their ability to think , and stop copy-paste from others .
You must think when you build a ship , and skills , whats going to happen ... if you go full dps , than you will be less resilient , if you go as tank , you wont be able to kill everything , but you will survive .But who thinks at defence when the spheres and cubes dont even scrath your shield?
Allsow it will improve team work , people will start helping eachother , and care about their team mate ... this is an MMO afterall isn't it? It's not a single rpg , where you have a chat to talk with others , who allsow play their own solo game .
I was more thinking along the lines of torpedos, there are some strong, shieldbypassing (primary and secondary effects included) out there. Require 1 Weapon power, but should have a ens. or lt. tac BO on board. Since this is the case (except for the wells). Beam target X can be used with an omnibeam.
I guess the point where our thinking part ways is by the choice of BO-Abilities. I guess you wouldnt part from beam target X, while I find them useless against most enemies, and against those where it is useful the build-in ones are enough (in my opinion).
NPCs aren't any different otherwise, right? Aren't they still huge bags of hull and shield HP? And still just as mindless and easy to predict? The spheres at least might have a powered-up Tachyon Beam, but otherwise they are totally the same thing. All they will do is still merely fly around and spam their abilities, no matter what those abilities are.
Also, how many people are using Tachyon Beam after last week's patch that were not using it before? If so, where do you use it, and do you spec into it as well? Are you seeing it really be that useful against NPCs if you are using it in PvE? Or how about PvP against other players?
Tachyon Beam may have been changed, but what has really changed in the game?
With my KDF drain boat and the solanae deflector. I use tachyon beam for 2 reasons.
1) It's great on bosses or anything else with lots of shields. It boosts the DPS of the entire team in ISA when the tac cube has no shields. Also just messing around in the voth BZ I can strip the shilds off of the bulwark in 1 cycle and just of few cycles of Tachyon beam will take the shields off of a Citadel Dreadnought.
2) the lowered CD helps the doff that lowers the CD on deflector powers.
It also buffed the Tachyon beam on Delta flyers.
I'm finding tachyon beam useful in both PvP and PvE.
Heh, I wouldn't say NPCs spam anything. :P
Sure, if you've got 5 of them...they're all likely to do the same thing at the same time there. 5 TachB's, 5 Torps...wheeee, fun!
But their base damage, their attacks per second (abilities used), tends to be damn low compared to players...even when you start grouping them up.
Since the change I've died twice in one run and that's it; and for that, I still blame the latency cause I was doing my madman attempt to activate the heals I had that just went nowhere. That was on the Hazari Destroyer - no Cruiser/Carrier has had an issue. Cause I'm used to trying to build as the aggromagnet, and my shields start going wonky back in mid January - so I'd been upping my hull game since then. Yeah, that omgherd issue I had gave me some time to prepare that other folks might not have had...so this didn't blindside me like it could have some folks out there.
There are some folks in this thread that want to make it a PvP Heroes vs. PvE Heroes kind of fight, which I think is kind of a distraction...they've got some beef with the DPS folks, and it's going to get the average player slaughtered.
I had a run earlier...the other 4 guys combined for 7 deaths...they weren't DPS League folks, they were just the average player - and - well, it probably hit them like a freight train carrying Mack trucks. Three of them popped within a couple of seconds of each other at one point.
It may be a thought that the easiest way to deal with ludicrous DPS is to make the NPCs more deadly...but what is that going to do to the little guy out there?
I'm all for more difficult mobs, Hell, what I just said seems contradictory to something else I said recently where I felt Normal should be the current Advanced, Advanced should be the current Elite, and they should create something new for Elite. Cause Normal should be more difficult than a Mission, then you go Advanced, and then you go Elite. I want tall the stuff to mean something there...
...this, though, I feel like I forced to fly a 70%+ aggrotank or I'm going to start feeling bad (the one where the other guys died seven times, I wanted to do some DPS and so I was only pulling 48% aggro/48% damage).
And the whole thing, Intel, Command, this...thinking about the potential skill revamp - has me wondering if they're heading toward dumbing down the game into the mindless MMO Trinity.
Better than panic stricken "veteran players" that don't know what to do when one of the most basic of science abilities are used on you.
Let me add that the FOTM type of ship: Cruisers, can easily take these Tachyon Beam attacks and laugh it off. You don't need a SCI leaning Cruiser to do this. You don't need an excessively heavy ENG Crusier like the T5 Galaxy to do this. You don't need a TAC Cruiser to laugh this off. Cruisers have the capacity to take the FULL BRUNT of all this Tachyon Beam nonsense and come out quite well.
Without 1 point into Command / Intel Specialization Trees.
Without using Command / Intel abilities.
Not requiring a gimmick ship.
Do you know what your abilities can do? Because BFAW will not necessarily take care of this issue.
If my Tac/Escort can handle it, anyone can. And I'll be the first to tell you that I'm a subpar pilot - especially as a Tac/Escort.
I don't know if I'm imagining it, but it seems like you're going pretty hard after the one guy. If that's the case, it's kind of silly looking, imho. If he were some DPS nublet that /facerolled his spacebar and the littlest change to NPCs caused him to bunch his panties, then yeah - I'd probably be right there trying to stay just on this side of requiring mod intervention while laughing my TRIBBLE off at him.
I'm using FAW. Course, I'm using FAW1. Course, FAW1 is bugged...not taking into account the Rarity of the weapon, so it's doing less DPV and thus less DPS than it should be. Am I using that bugged FAW1 to rock the DPS charts? Nope, I'm using it to try to hold aggro so others that aren't using FAW can rock the DPS charts.
Know what happens when I don't use FAW...here's an example from my last two runs:
w/o FAW1
Player Me) 0 deaths
Player
Player C) 2 deaths
Player D) 1 death
Player E) 3 deaths
w/ FAW1
Player A) 0 deaths
Player Me) 0 deaths
Player C) 0 deaths
Player D) 0 deaths
Player E) 0 deaths
So uh yeah, I'd have to disagree...me using FAW1 there, takes care of quite a few issues for folks, eh?
And the one guy, if that was the guy you were going after in particular as many in the various threads which were merged have been, well - he's a much better tank than I am because of who he has to tank for...he's holding aggro on folks doing 75-100k+ DPS...I'm holding aggro on folks doing 0-40k DPS. He doesn't have the luxury to build like I do.
I just don't get the PvP vs. PvE nor the PvE vs. PvP garbage that goes on with these forums at times.
The PvE vs. PvP folks that appear clueless to the fact that there are PvE folks that might want a balanced game and more of a challenge than just lobbing grenades into a barrel of goldfish.
The PvP vs. PvE folks that appear clueless about just how many totally lolgasmic complaints have been made by folks in the PvP forums about dealing with the simplest things.
If I were a dev, I sure as Hell wouldn't want to interact with this toxic community.
What they'd need to do, IMO, is change things from where 2/3 of your bonuses to hull capacity/shield cap/hull healing/shield healing/resistances can be obtained from pretty much cheap skill points.
The first problem is seriously the armor curve. It's way too easy to get to 50%. I mean, my sheshar, once it hits attract fire, rests at over 50% resists, and that's with no armor consoles, no BFI, no PH, no HE/APD/APO/A2SIF/EF/A2D/SFM. Bort has said he wants consoles (well, console abilities) to be stronger than boff abilities. But a 100 aux A2SIF1 gives more DR than an epic neutronium, and has a 2/3 uptime innate to it, not to mention that it actually heals. Let alone an A2SIF3 or any other high-ranking boff ability.
I think that taking the general resist formula and tweaking it from 3(.25(75/(150+DRM))^2) to either 3(.25(75/(75 * sqrt(3)+DRM))^2), 3(.25(75/(150+DRM))^1.75), or 3(.25(75/(75 * sqrt(3)+DRM))^1.9), and doubling the skill->DRM ratio and the armor console's armor grant, would make for a better curve. It would punish people rather significantly at the 0->20 DRM range, as they would be negative, but would make going from 50->100 and 100->200 much more worth it. You can really see how gains past 200 start to fall off, as we're approaching the 75% 'cap' on hull DR, but it makes actually slotting armor consoles feel at least potentially worth it. Link to examples with above formulas Also, as that formula is the m(x) used in the long version of damage resist, modifying that would be pretty simple as well.
Next up you want to look at actual hull capacity. You can hit a maximum of 320 to structural integrity. Eighty of that is from consumables (jevonite+skill buffs), leaving it at a realistic ~230. Even the basic dps guide's skill tree puts 6 points into structural integrity, for a skill of 84. And it's not uncommon to see the delta or assimilated deflector on very high dps toons to get a survivability and power buff. There's the bio-neural infusion circuits, but those are far from unpopular on dps builds anyway. The other source is fleet neutroniums, but, for DR reasons, they're really not worth it. And the skill of 10->12.5 really isn't worth it anyway, per console.
Same basic idea with shield capacity. You can stack it via crafted sci consoles or field generators, but even pre-dr field generators were worthless compared to embassy consoles, especially if you wanted to tank and needed the +th modifier.
And hull healing's the same boat. You can get +20 on a conductive rcs, another 20 from a warp core (actually kind of cool), and +10-12.5 on neutroniums or 20 as stand-alones, but when you compare that to the benefit of extra aux (plasmonic leech), the samsar console, massive weapons power drain resist (assimilated module), +th +Pla sci consoles (even pre-dr, that was a no brainer), or tactical consoles, why bother?
Shield healing at least gets a pass, since you can stack +th emitter arrays, but at the cost of actual capacity differences. So it's a 'pick one or half of both' type of situation.
Basically, it feels like what Sarcasm said here, that a tank build is just a toned down dps build, is basically true. When you look at a ship such as the Gawain, a 75k sci oddy, and compare it to the MK II, my tank oddy sci, I'm simply not 5x as survivable. I'm also not at 1/5th the dps, and I am at a higher threat potential, but if I'm expected to draw the aggro of 5 people... Or then there's sheshars. A 40k+ ship capable of tanking HSE, An 85k+ monster that can, also, run HSE, and if it splits aggro well (likely for that ship), have minimal deaths
And it's not like most of that ship is specc'd at damage over survivability; the tradeoffs for damage vs survivability, well, it just feels like a cruiser build is innately very middle of the line on both, yet game mechanics punish moving towards tankiness much harder than they punish moving towards damage.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Actually, I'm loving it! No. seriously. The shield drain itself is annoying, but you're not completely without shields for the duration. Especially not if you slot gear (Deflectors, Consoles) that add Power Insulators. And have at least 6/9 in the skill, of course. At around 170 Power Insulators you should be good.
Which is why I love the new shield depletion stuff on NPC's: it forces players to build something else than pure glass cannons (or glass BFAW boats, as the case may be). It's high time NPC's got abilities that can't just be blatantly ignored, as usual.
I'd say this.
There's the argument that increased difficulty = NPC's using powers 'properly', and then increased difficulty = increased NPC HP, but when NPC's have monster HP and use powers 'properly' stuff gets mental.
I'm enjoying it more at the minute, I'd probably enjoy it less if there were actual repercussions for exploding....
Ah, I hadn't personally done anything with it yet, so I'm glad to see that it is actually worth considering after years of basically being junk.
Yes, that is true, on an individual basis, NPCs tend to have low DPV. But I say spam in regards to their numbers. To me, that's what I consider spam. Lots of stuff just constantly crammed and used over and over in rapid succession with no real 'brains' behind it. And you are rarely dealing with just one or two at a time. Usually it is in groups, or one powerful NPC with maybe one or two littler ones around it.
Take a Borg cube in a non-STF situation. They can use a Borg Shield Neutralizer on you. Yes there are counters and such, but what happens even after they use it, and even if it is still working on you? They will just mindlessly spam it over and over irregardless on whoever has the aggro. Yes, an HE and such will remove it, but it doesn't change that they can just use it time and again.
NPCs pop EVERY single thing they have the moment they go into combat. Voth ships are a really obvious group who do this. The moment you start into shooting them, they use every nitpicking ability they have right out of the starting gate, and keep doing it anytime it all comes off cooldown.
Though yes, I do agree on the whole 'PvPers vs. PvEers' thing. I'm honestly shocked people actually think they do listen to PvPers (what few are left), and I also wonder how many threads we will see what the 'plasma doping' and EAP fix goes through (only for people to start passing the blame around and call them 'nerfs'). Far too much 'us vs. them' mentality sometimes around here.
I dunno if I would call it a 'mindless MMO trinity' though.
The potential for a skill revamp concerns me...it was meant literally as a dumbed down version of the MMO Trinity, which I'm not a fan of it in the first place - but I kind of dig how STO allows for a more natural creation of those roles if somebody wants to run them rather than the canned way it's done in many games.