I just mean to be clear, is all. I paid good money for all the Upgrades and stuff. And I like to keep it. Saying anything else would be a lie.
No one is saying you shouldn't keep it. If you spend $1000 on upgrades and the value drops by $50, it might be a little annoying but it hardly makes a dent in your gameplay. Now imagine people who spent $50 on their upgrades and the value drops to $0. They're basically screwed.
*edit
For the record, I'm not hating on people who spend as much money as they want to have fun. It just gets irritating when that fun is at the expense (no pun intended) of others. I realize that goes both ways but my point is that a couple changes to PvP would be barely noticeable in PvE, while in the other direction it could make or break the game for people.
There, there now... I assume you will be first to say "stop whining" the next time Borgified invisi-torps waste someone in your team, right? Or when Donatra cloaks out of a gravity well? And you certainly aren't one of those howler that sulk when that optional is blown because someone mis timed their apb...
The rudest and most abusive players in the game wouldn't PvP if their lives depended on it.
Correct, it was humbling the first time I came into PvP and my ship kept getting blown up easily. Took me about 4 months to get a science toon up to level 50 and with all the gear/abilities needed to survive and thrive in a PvP match.
PvE gameplay? Boils down to press the spacebar and win most of the time. Maybe a bit of thinking on some things in order to control NPCs, but just minimal brain power.
P.S. Changed my avatar to color from a pic I took from the Hollywood Horror Museum in Bristol, CT. If anyone wants any of the classic horror monster, I have them all.
^^ And exactly this, ladies and gentlemen, is why PvP-ers should never get a say in what gets nerfed!
Only today I heard it argue Intel powers are so good, it probably justifies giving the Phantom only 10 Consoles. And then come the PvP crowd, crying for a nerf, cuz Surgical Strikes strike them a wee too hard, and they can't win any more. And next thing I know I wake up with nerfed Intel powers AND one Console less.
Wtf are you talking about? We (the pvpers) have to stfu if something is unbalanced because you fear it could affect your OPness in PvE???
Imagine a world where PvP was totaly fine and PvE was broken to the max. Imagine we (the pvpers) would tell you to stfu cuz your cries for nerfs would change our game...
I have to repeat my last post. What exactly is it that we want to balance here that you paid for?
The OP asked for an abilites balancing. Last time I checked, those are all free to get.
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
All other things being equal (which they're not), that 10 console ship would still have an extra BOff ability over an 11 console T5U ship.
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
You paid for the ship fine, you didn't pay for the intel abilites. You get a nice console, some innate ability, an extra boff ability slot, cloaking, and a trait, that's what you paid for.
But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
"Weak" is a heavily relative term when you compare PvE and PvP.
(Not picking on you, you just seem to be more reasonable than a lot of the "PvPers nerf everything they can to make the game perfect for them" posters)
*edit
Another 'for the record': this game is PvE first, PvP second. That doesn't mean it should be PvE all, PvP nothing
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
Dude, if stuff get's balanced you won't have a weak ship. It will be on par with others, that's the definition of balance :rolleyes:
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
Not true they where sold with fewer consoles because there are fleet versions of them all coming shortly.
That isn't speculation... that is fact confirmed by Cryptic.
"Weak" is a heavily relative term when you compare PvE and PvP.
(Not picking on you, you just seem to be more reasonable than a lot of the "PvPers nerf everything they can to make the game perfect for them" posters)
*edit
Another 'for the record': this game is PvE first, PvP second. That doesn't mean it should be PvE all, PvP nothing
this game was designed and balanced for PvP.Makes no sense to balance for pve....npcs dont QQ ..thou if I look around here pve players have their IQ equal to the npcs they keep killing.
this game was designed and balanced for PvP.Makes no sense to balance for pve....npcs dont QQ ..thou if I look around here pve players have their IQ equal to the npcs they keep killing.
No doubt... if the game was well tended. Devs would balance for pvp all the time... and balance NPCs to the players.
How is insulting people going to get them interested in PvP? Seriously, trying to convince people that PvP is fun and rewarding while insulting their intelligence isn't helping you in the least.
how was that insulting?Pve players think npcs are smart.Is calling everyone smart a insult?
I'm trying to avoid too many economic/political comparisons but...
Pure capitalism (Cryptic is a profit-based business after all) means the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. Is it too much to ask for a minimum wage? It's not like PvPers want something for nothing - just enough to keep us from being homeless.
I'm trying to avoid too many economic/political comparisons but...
Pure capitalism (Cryptic is a profit-based business after all) means the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. Is it too much to ask for a minimum wage? It's not like PvPers want something for nothing - just enough to keep us from being homeless.
and from an ambitious heartless suit you would expect, they will use and abuse their support base as human stairs to their ivory tower. after which they won't care if they all ended up in a heap on the floor afterwards.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
"Weak" is a heavily relative term when you compare PvE and PvP.
(Not picking on you, you just seem to be more reasonable than a lot of the "PvPers nerf everything they can to make the game perfect for them" posters)
*edit
Another 'for the record': this game is PvE first, PvP second. That doesn't mean it should be PvE all, PvP nothing
PvP is good for this game, as PvP-ers, let's face it, are really the only ones who truly understand the game mechanics (and then have that knowledge trickle down to us mundanes). But, realistically, this remains, overwhelmingly so, a PvE game. Ideally, certain abilities behave differently in PvP than in PvE. Surgical Strikes was already supposed to do that, iirc. Then neither camp hinders each other.
Except... surgical strikes isn't going to stay powerful in pve.
and it's really no better than be overload 3 against NPC's.
Though I personally would find great humor if they gave all the NPC bots particle Gen boosted FBP with a script to activate it when hit with an Apb plus surgical strikes. Given what you DPS racers give up to get your damage numbers it would be pretty much instant self vape.
(In perspective; FBP plus particles hits back up to 300% with half that ignoring All shields and resists. Boom. PvE players would scream for nerfs if NPC did that...)
I would lol. Just giving NPCs 2x FBP would pretty much have them crying nerf. No need to get that extreme.
Though I personally would find great humor if they gave all the NPC bots particle Gen boosted FBP with a script to activate it when hit with an Apb plus surgical strikes. Given what you DPS racers give up to get your damage numbers it would be pretty much instant self vape.
(In perspective; FBP plus particles hits back up to 300% with half that ignoring All shields and resists. Boom. PvE players would scream for nerfs if NPC did that...)
As Nr. 2 told Dr. Evil, 'This, already, also has happened.' I think the V.S.W. Implacable (Korfez) occassionally turns on one of them insta-vape feedback pulses. Annoying, yes; but turnabout is fair play.
It would be simpler if Cryptic just created several different PvP rulesets and either put them behind their own mini-server like Tribble, or it's own time-displaced dimension like a massive PvP Colosseum version of the Captain's Table. No rewards beyond PvP oriented Accolades and ship decorations, so it's purely a voluntary competition, doesn't take up any more time than necessary, and still be accessible to all.
Can have multiple setups, such as free-for-alls, team, CTF, and so on.
Ruleset 1: Unrestricted PvP - Nothing held back; all builds are a go.
Ruleset 2: Vanilla (could also be considered Canon) PvP - Rules here. But to enforce it, Cryptic would also code a temporary disabling of Primary and Secondary Specializations and abilities, and disabling of all Traits while in the arena. Players would have 5 minutes to reset their trays w/o any Specialized skills, and strategize last-minute, before PvP begins. This way, no one can sneak a Specialized skill or trait.
Ruleset 3: Ship-Specific PvP - Any and all ships of a specific type, such as cruisers-only. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations (including Boff Skills) Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 4: Cloak-Disabled PvP - Any and all ships permitted; Cloaking disabled. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 5: Hazard Zone PvP - Any and all ships permitted. Random hazards such as explosive clouds, cloak-disabling nebulas, sensor jamming effects, or engine interfering effects exist on the maps; generated at random. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 6: LoS or "Blind" PvP - Any and all ships permitted; Sensors and Cloaking disabled. The opponent's stats such as HP, shielding, buffs, or debuffs are not visible, and enemies nor allies will show up on the map. Reliance is entirely on notable visual effects. Enforces old-fashioned pack-hunting or bold solo raiding. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Minimum needed to start any one match is 2; one opponent on each side. Accolades are not given unless there's a minimum of 10 in any match (5v5, though maybe 10v10 might be better). If anyone leaves the match prior to it finishing, or is AFK/not doing any realistic damage most of the match (those few with enough separate alts to log-in), the match does not count towards any Accolade.
That way, PvP groups have their choices and challenges to mess around with, while casuals and Fleets just looking for some friendly fun on their own can participate amongst their own as well, without having to be forced to stick to certain rulesets or rule subsets or be unfairly matched against more dedicated PvPers.
How is insulting people going to get them interested in PvP? Seriously, trying to convince people that PvP is fun and rewarding while insulting their intelligence isn't helping you in the least.
From what I've seen on other games' PvP chat (oh the ignominy of having to grind BGs for welfare epics) and heard through the wall for XBox Live, you have to be a TRIBBLE to like PvP, so it's how they advertise for PvPers.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
From what I've seen on other games' PvP chat (oh the ignominy of having to grind BGs for welfare epics) and heard through the wall for XBox Live, you have to be a TRIBBLE to like PvP, so it's how they advertise for PvPers.
you clearly havent got to the point to know sto is not a xbox game.
From what I've seen on other games' PvP chat (oh the ignominy of having to grind BGs for welfare epics) and heard through the wall for XBox Live, you have to be a TRIBBLE to like PvP, so it's how they advertise for PvPers.
You don't have to love to get beat up to enjoy PvP. Online games in general attract bad behaviour. Its the anonymity I guess.
Playing with other people and being social should be the main goal of a MMO. (Cryptic needs to improve the idea of multi player in pretty much all aspects of STO) Saying that PvPers are masochists though is as silly as saying people that love Chess are.
You can have a Friendly VS game and in fact have fun all around regardless of who ends the victor. Of course while most people wouldn't rage after loosing a chess game, it seems easier for some to consider that acceptable on the internet.
If someone did rage after a chess match it wouldn't turn me off the game.
Comments
No one is saying you shouldn't keep it. If you spend $1000 on upgrades and the value drops by $50, it might be a little annoying but it hardly makes a dent in your gameplay. Now imagine people who spent $50 on their upgrades and the value drops to $0. They're basically screwed.
*edit
For the record, I'm not hating on people who spend as much money as they want to have fun. It just gets irritating when that fun is at the expense (no pun intended) of others. I realize that goes both ways but my point is that a couple changes to PvP would be barely noticeable in PvE, while in the other direction it could make or break the game for people.
Correct, it was humbling the first time I came into PvP and my ship kept getting blown up easily. Took me about 4 months to get a science toon up to level 50 and with all the gear/abilities needed to survive and thrive in a PvP match.
PvE gameplay? Boils down to press the spacebar and win most of the time. Maybe a bit of thinking on some things in order to control NPCs, but just minimal brain power.
P.S. Changed my avatar to color from a pic I took from the Hollywood Horror Museum in Bristol, CT. If anyone wants any of the classic horror monster, I have them all.
Wtf are you talking about? We (the pvpers) have to stfu if something is unbalanced because you fear it could affect your OPness in PvE???
Imagine a world where PvP was totaly fine and PvE was broken to the max. Imagine we (the pvpers) would tell you to stfu cuz your cries for nerfs would change our game...
That's just antisocial and ignorant.
Y'all were talking about Surgical Strikes, for one. Yes, the ability is 'free'. The ships it can be used on, however, aren't. T6 Intel ships were sold, with only 10 Consoles, precisely because they had all these new, powerful Intel abilities. Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't want them to pull some sort of bait & switch now, where the compensatory boon, as it were, is being nerfed from under me, and I suddenly just have a weak ship with only 10 Consoles. See?
All other things being equal (which they're not), that 10 console ship would still have an extra BOff ability over an 11 console T5U ship.
You paid for the ship fine, you didn't pay for the intel abilites. You get a nice console, some innate ability, an extra boff ability slot, cloaking, and a trait, that's what you paid for.
"Weak" is a heavily relative term when you compare PvE and PvP.
(Not picking on you, you just seem to be more reasonable than a lot of the "PvPers nerf everything they can to make the game perfect for them" posters)
*edit
Another 'for the record': this game is PvE first, PvP second. That doesn't mean it should be PvE all, PvP nothing
Dude, if stuff get's balanced you won't have a weak ship. It will be on par with others, that's the definition of balance :rolleyes:
Not true they where sold with fewer consoles because there are fleet versions of them all coming shortly.
That isn't speculation... that is fact confirmed by Cryptic.
this game was designed and balanced for PvP.Makes no sense to balance for pve....npcs dont QQ ..thou if I look around here pve players have their IQ equal to the npcs they keep killing.
No doubt... if the game was well tended. Devs would balance for pvp all the time... and balance NPCs to the players.
That requires to much work for Cryptic.
how was that insulting?Pve players think npcs are smart.Is calling everyone smart a insult?
you sure are a sensitive little princess
Pure capitalism (Cryptic is a profit-based business after all) means the rich get richer and the poor get screwed. Is it too much to ask for a minimum wage? It's not like PvPers want something for nothing - just enough to keep us from being homeless.
and from an ambitious heartless suit you would expect, they will use and abuse their support base as human stairs to their ivory tower. after which they won't care if they all ended up in a heap on the floor afterwards.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
PvP is good for this game, as PvP-ers, let's face it, are really the only ones who truly understand the game mechanics (and then have that knowledge trickle down to us mundanes). But, realistically, this remains, overwhelmingly so, a PvE game. Ideally, certain abilities behave differently in PvP than in PvE. Surgical Strikes was already supposed to do that, iirc. Then neither camp hinders each other.
I would lol. Just giving NPCs 2x FBP would pretty much have them crying nerf. No need to get that extreme.
Nah, that's just Ednas way to say "I love you!"
As Nr. 2 told Dr. Evil, 'This, already, also has happened.'
Can have multiple setups, such as free-for-alls, team, CTF, and so on.
Ruleset 1: Unrestricted PvP - Nothing held back; all builds are a go.
Ruleset 2: Vanilla (could also be considered Canon) PvP - Rules here. But to enforce it, Cryptic would also code a temporary disabling of Primary and Secondary Specializations and abilities, and disabling of all Traits while in the arena. Players would have 5 minutes to reset their trays w/o any Specialized skills, and strategize last-minute, before PvP begins. This way, no one can sneak a Specialized skill or trait.
Ruleset 3: Ship-Specific PvP - Any and all ships of a specific type, such as cruisers-only. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations (including Boff Skills) Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 4: Cloak-Disabled PvP - Any and all ships permitted; Cloaking disabled. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 5: Hazard Zone PvP - Any and all ships permitted. Random hazards such as explosive clouds, cloak-disabling nebulas, sensor jamming effects, or engine interfering effects exist on the maps; generated at random. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Ruleset 6: LoS or "Blind" PvP - Any and all ships permitted; Sensors and Cloaking disabled. The opponent's stats such as HP, shielding, buffs, or debuffs are not visible, and enemies nor allies will show up on the map. Reliance is entirely on notable visual effects. Enforces old-fashioned pack-hunting or bold solo raiding. Sub-categories of this Ruleset include: Unrestricted Specialization and Traits, Specializations Disabled, Specializations and Traits Disabled, or Traits Disabled.
Minimum needed to start any one match is 2; one opponent on each side. Accolades are not given unless there's a minimum of 10 in any match (5v5, though maybe 10v10 might be better). If anyone leaves the match prior to it finishing, or is AFK/not doing any realistic damage most of the match (those few with enough separate alts to log-in), the match does not count towards any Accolade.
That way, PvP groups have their choices and challenges to mess around with, while casuals and Fleets just looking for some friendly fun on their own can participate amongst their own as well, without having to be forced to stick to certain rulesets or rule subsets or be unfairly matched against more dedicated PvPers.
From what I've seen on other games' PvP chat (oh the ignominy of having to grind BGs for welfare epics) and heard through the wall for XBox Live, you have to be a TRIBBLE to like PvP, so it's how they advertise for PvPers.
you clearly havent got to the point to know sto is not a xbox game.
You don't have to love to get beat up to enjoy PvP. Online games in general attract bad behaviour. Its the anonymity I guess.
Playing with other people and being social should be the main goal of a MMO. (Cryptic needs to improve the idea of multi player in pretty much all aspects of STO) Saying that PvPers are masochists though is as silly as saying people that love Chess are.
You can have a Friendly VS game and in fact have fun all around regardless of who ends the victor. Of course while most people wouldn't rage after loosing a chess game, it seems easier for some to consider that acceptable on the internet.
If someone did rage after a chess match it wouldn't turn me off the game.
I've done my time in PvP hell already. I'll not set foot nor phaser on a PvP map to find out here.
Dreadlords in UO to Windfury Shammies in that game with a censored name, I've done my time.