They should definitely put the cluster exploration missions back in, they could simply put a second option at the clusters (besides the Doff missions) to Enter the Nebula or whatever, and then you enter an instance that is just like the old clusters.
I certainly miss the old missions, as they were true Trek, you never knew what you were going to get, Blow these Enemy Ships Up, Defend this Space Base Thing, or maybe Land on This Planet and Run Around Clicking the Glowies While Not Getting Your TRIBBLE Shot Off, etc etc. That was Trek. Far different from the mission arcs, where you know EXACTLY what is going to happen, every single time. That's not Trek, that's Linear Storyline Progression, as opposed to Open World Progression. Since the removal of the cluster exploration missions, I personally have felt like half the content in the game has just been dropped, in favor of directed, closed-in world, linear storylines, or "quests" if you will, that everyone has to do in order to get to the new shiny-shiny.
Dropping the clusters was a bad move. Hopefully they will bring it back, to keep people from getting bored if nothing else. I don't know what reason they may have given for dropping them in the first place, maybe it was server lag, I don't know, BUT... maybe they were planning on making something LIKE these missions show up in sector space? I mean, recently they did say something about Foundry missions showing up in sector space, well, what they NEED to do, is have RANDOM appearing NEW planetary systems that appear IN SECTOR SPACE, which look different, I dunno, all shiny and orange or something to get people's attention. THEN, you can fly into it for a random mission. Other players might not even see it! WHo KNows?? That's the beauty of Trek, baby!! To go where No One Has Gone Before!! :eek:
Honestly this is how we should have exploration clusters:
Feds can explor strange new worlds... basiclly just see this
Roms can cart their egos around, make contact with powerful races and enslave less powerful ones
KDFs: WARRIORS! If we encounter a more feeble race then they will be considered jegh'pwl, if we encounter a powerful opponant then we shall garrhh honor garrghh and asend into sto'vo'kor! QAPLA!
This sounds good to me
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
I've been looking for Bottlecaps and other valeuables in containers in fallout 3 for longer than I've played STO...
I don't have much experience playing video games....but from reading what anazonda wrote here... I am going to assume this Bottle cap hunting in Fallout 3 is similar to the "Skill Nodes" on Neverwinter Online (the "sister" game to STO, which I have tried).
I can spend lots of time wandering the various location maps on NWO looking for those thievery, arcana, religion, nature and dungeoneering skill nodes that are hidden everywhere!! Why isn't this in STO??? It is kinda fun!
Granted, most of the nodes are in the same spots but finding them every single time is an interesting journey (thanks to Trolls, Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies, obstacle courses of various types etc....not to mention brain fog issues). Sometimes they are already gone.
STO did something similar on in New Romulus with the rock, plant, radiation scans. And with the Anniversary and the Omega mini game. Never know where they would show up...nor how many one would find at a given time. And one would have to wander around, looking for the interact points.
Granted, on NWO, the "treasures" found are more USEFUL since they can be used all throughout the game for crafting or refining or healing or profit.
Plus on NWO, sometimes you can hit a mother lode of crafting materials...other times not so much. THAT is how you use RNG to make things interesting. It makes me want to keep looking and see what can happen. (BTW...this is why I enjoy DOFFing, also...I want to see what can happen. But I hate crafting because RNG used for evil)
This sort of "exploring" with skill nodes (or minigames) is already possible to do with the program....just have to add it in more places. Maybe a good reason for people to drop in on Wolf 359, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa or New Romulus or fly to the far side of Qo'nos once in a while (some of those have to be opened up to KDF side).
Hide them all over the "Battle Zone" ground maps, too (it might get more people out of the command center between VRexes).
Players like me (who are not traditional "video gamers") need a way to "farm" R&D materials and Rep currencies without causing conflicts and fights with those wanting a "good" STF run. I just can not get coordinated with all those buttons, so STFs is just not "my thing". Maybe one day.... with more time and tons of practice.
++++++++++++++++
Another thing already in the game that has possibilities for exploration is what you have done with ACCOLADES. Short "missions" within a story or with a progression (like Pavel on Risa). Stick them in different locations....these can be focused toward Classes, Schools, Careers, Races...etc... I know I am getting all my terms mixed up...sorry...I think Classes is NWO.
People can help each other out, too. I needed help from my friend to figure out most of the ones on New Romulus (I so suck at jumping and climbing)....I haven't even found all the ones on Nimbus....didn't start Delta Rising (I guess, that would be Kobali).
There really is no reason to get so complicated, or try to emulate some other, newer game platform...just use what is already there.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
STO is currently focusing on the primary storyline it has, hence the culling of many "one off" episodes from various existing story arcs in-game in recent updates. To generate some different kinds of adventures with some random interaction and variations, I'm going to suggest as a part of the "Exploration System":
Investigations. A series of resource and information gathering scenarios, which can also be randomly obtained via the the DOFF system, divided into three basic fields:
Artifact: Use your ships ready room, science lab, and engineering factilites to aid you in piecing together what a particular artifact may be and/or how it operates and what its purpose is. This might even lead to furthering your investigation to locate other parts or companion pieces of said artifact; similar to what the mercenaries where doing in the episode "Gambit".
Intelligence: This will usually point you to a particular location to investigate unusual activity of some kind; "Tin Man" is a prime example of this, though they won't always include combat scenarios.
Anomaly: Encountered while traveling through the game world either through sector space, the DOFF system, and even some social hub maps. You need to analyze the anomaly and determine what it is, with random outcomes dependent on whether it is a natural phenomenon or an artificially generated one. Artificial ones may end up with something emerging from it that might need to be aided, contained, or even fought. It may even end up with you being pulled into another location; think Elachi, Solanae, and Undine abduction scenarios.
These investigations can even use a combination of two or even all three types; a piece of gathered intelligence might yield an artifact that then needs to be analyzed, which then opens up an anomaly.
In addition to having some of these investigations started by duty officer assignments themselves, you will also get new duty officer assignments during an investigation that may require your DOFFs to gather and locate new resources and/or intel on possible new locations and people who might aid you in your quest to unlock these mysteries. An example would be information about a buried artifact, or part of one, located somewhere on Androia's ground map which you'll need to investigate, locate and then excavate on the surface.
The byproduct of this is to also utilise areas and locations in the game that are either not used at all or see very little use, in the hope that resources might also be spent on updating and improving these areas of the game world.
I don't have much experience playing video games....but from reading what anazonda wrote here... I am going to assume this Bottle cap hunting in Fallout 3 is similar to the "Skill Nodes" on Neverwinter Online (the "sister" game to STO, which I have tried).
I can spend lots of time wandering the various location maps on NWO looking for those thievery, arcana, religion, nature and dungeoneering skill nodes that are hidden everywhere!!
Granted, most of the nodes are in the same spots but finding them every single time is an interesting journey (thanks to Trolls, Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies, obstacle courses of various types etc....not to mention brain fog issues). Sometimes they are already gone.
STO did something similar on in New Romulus with the rock, plant, radiation scans. And with the Anniversary and the Omega mini game. Never know where they would show up...nor how many one would find at a given time. And one would have to wander around, looking for the interact points.
Granted, on NWO, the "treasures" found are more USEFUL since they can be used all throughout the game for crafting or refining or healing or profit.
Plus on NWO, sometimes you can hit a mother lode of crafting materials...other times not so much. THAT is how you use RNG to make things interesting. It makes me want to keep looking and see what can happen. (BTW...this is why I enjoy DOFFing, also...I want to see what can happen. But I hate crafting because RNG used for evil)
This sort of "exploring" with skill nodes (or minigames) is already possible to do with the program....just have to add it in more places. Maybe a good reason for people to drop in on Wolf 359, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa or New Romulus or fly to the far side of Qo'nos once in a while (some of those have to be opened up to KDF side).
Hide them all over the "Battle Zone" ground maps, too (it might get more people out of the command center between VRexes).
Players like me (who are not traditional "video gamers") need a way to "farm" R&D materials and Rep currencies without causing conflicts and fights with those wanting a "good" STF run. I just can not get coordinated with all those buttons, so STFs is just not "my thing". Maybe one day.... with more time and tons of practice.
++++++++++++++++
Another thing already in the game that has possibilities for exploration is what you have done with ACCOLADES. Short "missions" within a story or with a progression (like Pavel on Risa). Stick them in different locations....these can be focused toward Classes, Schools, Careers, Races...etc... I know I am getting all my terms mixed up...sorry...I think Classes is NWO.
People can help each other out, too. I needed help from my friend to figure out most of the ones on New Romulus (I so suck at jumping and climbing)....I haven't even found all the ones on Nimbus....didn't start Delta Rising (I guess, that would be Kobali).
There really is no reason to get so complicated, or try to emulate some other, newer game platform...just use what is already there.
They kinda did that in STO. then undid it and half-way re-did it again...
It's how crafting mats work/used to work. Except that you don't normally find crafting mats in social zones.
They kinda did that in STO. then undid it and half-way re-did it again...
It's how crafting mats work/used to work. Except that you don't normally find crafting mats in social zones.
They added Omega crafting materials in social zones for the Anniversary Omega mini game. So, they CAN do it if they wanted to. Although, it made every place laggy as heck.... so...it needs work.
Why can't they hide these interact nodes all over the un-named parts of the universe and make people hunt them down in low activity areas?
You can't tell me people visit Wolf 359 or Vulcan or Andoria regularly...or Risa...in the off season. (Well, I do with my Ferengi once in a blue moon for commodities, Entertainment provisions and regular Provisions).
Or stick nodes in already made battle zones which should already be optimized for large groups (should, I said, should).
Exploration in a video game....without adding an entire new "unexplored system" and associated maps (which, to me, sounds like something Cryptic does NOT want to do, because they just took all that out).....what else is there?
You have to make people feel like they are getting "out" and "exploring" IN locations that are already there but not often used. Maybe it will look different when the sectors merge and there is more space in "outer space".
There could be a point that becomes the "unknown universe" out on the edges of the new merged space. I think in Dyson they called it "Allied Zone" and "Contested Zone"...there is "stuff" to do in both places but it is a border that is really not a border (fly between them), isn't it?
There are, also, tons of places on maps that don't seem used or NPCs that just sit there. I play KDF and I know there are labyrinths of corridors in First City that are, well, just there, as far as I know. It was part of the tutorial when I first started my KDF (at level 20)....but I think that is obsolete now. Maybe it is still used for the foundry??? Doubtful.
On the old ESD there was an entire second level with just hallways and doors, not sure if they did that with the new one, I hardly ever go there. You don't have to have "First Encounters" with alien species in the far reaches of space or while on board a ship. Ask that Egg Head guy who got turned into an Undine while hanging out in the rotunda of the old ESD.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I don't have much experience playing video games....but from reading what anazonda wrote here... I am going to assume this Bottle cap hunting in Fallout 3 is similar to the "Skill Nodes" on Neverwinter Online (the "sister" game to STO, which I have tried).
I can spend lots of time wandering the various location maps on NWO looking for those thievery, arcana, religion, nature and dungeoneering skill nodes that are hidden everywhere!! Why isn't this in STO??? It is kinda fun!
Granted, most of the nodes are in the same spots but finding them every single time is an interesting journey (thanks to Trolls, Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies, obstacle courses of various types etc....not to mention brain fog issues). Sometimes they are already gone.
STO did something similar on in New Romulus with the rock, plant, radiation scans. And with the Anniversary and the Omega mini game. Never know where they would show up...nor how many one would find at a given time. And one would have to wander around, looking for the interact points.
Granted, on NWO, the "treasures" found are more USEFUL since they can be used all throughout the game for crafting or refining or healing or profit.
Plus on NWO, sometimes you can hit a mother lode of crafting materials...other times not so much. THAT is how you use RNG to make things interesting. It makes me want to keep looking and see what can happen. (BTW...this is why I enjoy DOFFing, also...I want to see what can happen. But I hate crafting because RNG used for evil)
This sort of "exploring" with skill nodes (or minigames) is already possible to do with the program....just have to add it in more places. Maybe a good reason for people to drop in on Wolf 359, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa or New Romulus or fly to the far side of Qo'nos once in a while (some of those have to be opened up to KDF side).
Hide them all over the "Battle Zone" ground maps, too (it might get more people out of the command center between VRexes).
Players like me (who are not traditional "video gamers") need a way to "farm" R&D materials and Rep currencies without causing conflicts and fights with those wanting a "good" STF run. I just can not get coordinated with all those buttons, so STFs is just not "my thing". Maybe one day.... with more time and tons of practice.
++++++++++++++++
Another thing already in the game that has possibilities for exploration is what you have done with ACCOLADES. Short "missions" within a story or with a progression (like Pavel on Risa). Stick them in different locations....these can be focused toward Classes, Schools, Careers, Races...etc... I know I am getting all my terms mixed up...sorry...I think Classes is NWO.
People can help each other out, too. I needed help from my friend to figure out most of the ones on New Romulus (I so suck at jumping and climbing)....I haven't even found all the ones on Nimbus....didn't start Delta Rising (I guess, that would be Kobali).
There really is no reason to get so complicated, or try to emulate some other, newer game platform...just use what is already there.
Bottlecaps are the equivalent of Dilithium...
What makes it worth looking for them, is that regardless of your level, you can always get something for it...
Food, water, Ammo, Weapons, gear... Bribes...
That, combined with a wonderful mechanic of wear on gear, along with random encounters makes you want to go back to places that you know is dangerous, because they often yield more caps (Fallout is set in a post-apocalyptic scenario).
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
What makes it worth looking for them, is that regardless of your level, you can always get something for it...
Food, water, Ammo, Weapons, gear... Bribes...
That, combined with a wonderful mechanic of wear on gear, along with random encounters makes you want to go back to places that you know is dangerous, because they often yield more caps (Fallout is set in a post-apocalyptic scenario).
That is nice. Opening an instant grand prize.
Although, part of the problem on Neverwinter Online is all the "gold sellers" out there "hunting" those Nodes, too.
And, thinking about it, now, even though it is fun for me to look for skill nodes for half an hour or so....there are others who do it for profit. Not sure STO economy would survive that change.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Perhaps part of this is down to expanding other content, so for example you could go to the Dyson Spheres and do a sweep and clear on some smaller towers to make sure they're safe to explore further, or even tie it into a wider system where you help ambassadors from new worlds with tasks to help their people. That could result in new unique tech for the R&D system when you've done enough to help that world or minor power you met while out exploring somewhere.
Honestly though, I think exploration would benefit from being tied into as many parts of the game as possible so it feels like it is a big part of the game, that's the main thing as far as I see it because after all, Trek was mainly about the exploring.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I want exploration to be more than just that. I want to be cruising along, and get a random message from starfleet that my ship is needed to transport an ambassador from one place to another, and run into some difficulties or have it go on without a hitch. I want to run across a random anomaly and investigate it. Exploration, to me, should be similar to being in an actual episode of star trek. But instead of running on rails to do it, as we do now with every mission, I want to be able to find my own way out of a situation. I want multiple options, and failure conditions, that either result in my ships destruction or the loss of some of my crew, or making an enemy of a new species. This is exploration.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its continuing mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before.
IMHO - Without exploration it's not really Star Trek, but that does not mean the exploration of a planet could not turn into an adventure that also includes action and adventure (read as space combat/ground combat). 28 seasons of Star Trek proved it can be done. Not all episodes begin with exploration, but so many do and then it turns out that there is an adventure on the other side of the hills that they have been scanning or down in a cave in that hill or maybe a bunny hops out from behind a tree and exclaims, "Oh, I'm late! I'm very, very late!" before disappearing down a large rabbit hole. Forget that last one, it's been done. And done with lots of adventure I might add.
If STO wants to be only all about the movies then it's going to be nothing but space combat and ground combat and that's it.
Still, I see your point. Who would want to be the guy who's job it is to create new planets/systems for every single unexplored system. Well, that WOULD be a boring. So take a page out of the original Star Trek. Reuse the planets. Same planet, different color.
Or is that what The Foundry is for? Now that I think about it, maybe this is a task better suited for those guys who can use The Foundry. One of my fav Foundry eps begins with exploration and leads to a whole different mission.
They added Omega crafting materials in social zones for the Anniversary Omega mini game. So, they CAN do it if they wanted to. Although, it made every place laggy as heck.... so...it needs work.
Why can't they hide these interact nodes all over the un-named parts of the universe and make people hunt them down in low activity areas?
You can't tell me people visit Wolf 359 or Vulcan or Andoria regularly...or Risa...in the off season. (Well, I do with my Ferengi once in a blue moon for commodities, Entertainment provisions and regular Provisions).
Or stick nodes in already made battle zones which should already be optimized for large groups (should, I said, should).
Exploration in a video game....without adding an entire new "unexplored system" and associated maps (which, to me, sounds like something Cryptic does NOT want to do, because they just took all that out).....what else is there?
You have to make people feel like they are getting "out" and "exploring" IN locations that are already there but not often used. Maybe it will look different when the sectors merge and there is more space in "outer space".
There could be a point that becomes the "unknown universe" out on the edges of the new merged space. I think in Dyson they called it "Allied Zone" and "Contested Zone"...there is "stuff" to do in both places but it is a border that is really not a border (fly between them), isn't it?
There are, also, tons of places on maps that don't seem used or NPCs that just sit there. I play KDF and I know there are labyrinths of corridors in First City that are, well, just there, as far as I know. It was part of the tutorial when I first started my KDF (at level 20)....but I think that is obsolete now. Maybe it is still used for the foundry??? Doubtful.
On the old ESD there was an entire second level with just hallways and doors, not sure if they did that with the new one, I hardly ever go there. You don't have to have "First Encounters" with alien species in the far reaches of space or while on board a ship. Ask that Egg Head guy who got turned into an Undine while hanging out in the rotunda of the old ESD.
Uh... what you're describing is the way searching for crafting mats used to work. Got to exploration cluster scan for particles.... ad nauseum.
Scanning for crafting mats is still doable, just not quite as quick since it's largely confined to story missions now.
IMO the biggest fault of the old clusters was that you went looking but you never really found anything. Today I might catalogue gaseous anomalies in a previously unknown system.... but tomorrow I won't remember where the system was. Is it really exploration if you don't bother to chart where you've been? It seems more like aimless wandering.
Uh... what you're describing is the way searching for crafting mats used to work. Got to exploration cluster scan for particles.... ad nauseum.
Scanning for crafting mats is still doable, just not quite as quick since it's largely confined to story missions now.
IMO the biggest fault of the old clusters was that you went looking but you never really found anything. Today I might catalogue gaseous anomalies in a previously unknown system.... but tomorrow I won't remember where the system was. Is it really exploration if you don't bother to chart where you've been? It seems more like aimless wandering.
Well....you are just describing "Episodes".....Skip, Hail, or Replay....various buttons grayed out if you already did it or not. Keeping track for you.
Or Accolades that get checked off on the "accolades" tab....another list. There were accolades in there for visiting Clusters...but I don't think that is what we are looking for either.
"Spend your life doing strange things with weird people." -- UNK
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I'm never sure how to reply to threads like these without being highly inflammatory. IMHO, they tend to be full of folks that have watched the opening credits a million times but have never actually watched a single Star Trek episode nor movie. The disconnect is that huge...in how they say that STO is not like Star Trek because of the lack of exploration. STO is very Star Trek in it's lack of exploration...we tuned in each week for some adventure, where the show cut to the chase, and the exploration was just a possible backdrop/backstory leading up to the adventure. We didn't sit there through months upon months or years upon years of any actual exploration...Star Trek cut to the chase. STO cuts to the chase.
That doesn't mean every adventure in Star Trek was a pew-pew fest like it tends to be in STO, but asking for different types of adventures isn't the same as asking for exploration. I think different types of adventures would be cool - problem solving things that don't involve giving the command to fire everything! A first contact mission where there is no conflict, no drama, is not something we saw on Star Trek...there was the conflict, the drama, the action, the adventure.
I'm just oft befuddled by folks asking for exploration as the missing aspect, when it was missing from the IP in the first place...rather than asking for a wider assortment of adventures, which were part of the IP and are kind of lacking in STO.
Thanks guys, lots of good ideas. Keep em coming. I guarantee people (besides me) are reading them.
Thank you guys for looking at this thread. It is a long one with good ideas.
I personally liked the Romulus walk through mission where you shoot the bottles. It is little details like that which make an exploration mission. Just something random and fun to do. As mentioned in the poll you did, I mentioned player made and voted exploration zone content. It wouldn't hurt having your own in there. The concern is the content needs to be controlled some how. some maps aren't exploration based that players make.
I'm never sure how to reply to threads like these without being highly inflammatory. IMHO, they tend to be full of folks that have watched the opening credits a million times but have never actually watched a single Star Trek episode nor movie. The disconnect is that huge...in how they say that STO is not like Star Trek because of the lack of exploration. STO is very Star Trek in it's lack of exploration...we tuned in each week for some adventure, where the show cut to the chase, and the exploration was just a possible backdrop/backstory leading up to the adventure. We didn't sit there through months upon months or years upon years of any actual exploration...Star Trek cut to the chase. STO cuts to the chase.
That doesn't mean every adventure in Star Trek was a pew-pew fest like it tends to be in STO, but asking for different types of adventures isn't the same as asking for exploration. I think different types of adventures would be cool - problem solving things that don't involve giving the command to fire everything! A first contact mission where there is no conflict, no drama, is not something we saw on Star Trek...there was the conflict, the drama, the action, the adventure.
I'm just oft befuddled by folks asking for exploration as the missing aspect, when it was missing from the IP in the first place...rather than asking for a wider assortment of adventures, which were part of the IP and are kind of lacking in STO.
Yeah, exploration in Star Trek really meant looking for dangerous things, then figuring out how to deal with them. They seemed to succeed quite well at that.
Problem is... how do you make a random near-disaster for the player to somehow avoid? Maybe a giant minigame that's like parkour for starships? heheh...
Although i didn't vote for Exploration, I do have a couple of ideas to throw out there.
Wormholes and make use of the Nebula around STO to add some different missions attached to them. Random unstable appearing Wormholes could present a player the option to explore somewhere they have never been and get a nice reward for it. Uncharted Nebula could be used to help mine crafting materials like the previously available missions.
Q could also appear and send players off to distant galaxies and places never visited before. This happened when Q introduced the TNG crew to the Borg. The Traveler could also be picked up from specific points around the STO galaxy or use a DOff mission to activate The Traveler to help him explore more unusual places. Like the TNG series, he took the Enterprise to places that were unimaginable to conceive in some cases.
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unfortunately in any game you play true exploration is a myth, you might get the appearance of exploration in things like the Exploration Clusters with some random stuff but once you have been there a few times you just end up getting the same stuff over and over and how can you have as they say "where no man has gone before" when you know at the back of your mind there are probably 100s of players who have.
even with a game like elite dangerous with its 400 billion star systems you will find that most are very similar and offer very little new stuff to see, planets you can explore or life you can seek out, especially when the gameplay makes you want to visit the core star systems for the tradeing that is the main thread of the game.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
unfortunately in any game you play true exploration is a myth, you might get the appearance of exploration in things like the Exploration Clusters with some random stuff but once you have been there a few times you just end up getting the same stuff over and over and how can you have as they say "where no man has gone before" when you know at the back of your mind there are probably 100s of players who have.
even with a game like elite dangerous with its 400 billion star systems you will find that most are very similar and offer very little new stuff to see, planets you can explore or life you can seek out, especially when the gameplay makes you want to visit the core star systems for the tradeing that is the main thread of the game.
now you see things the way i do, its all meaningless and pointless. there are those who are super excited by an exploration content coming, ideas needed and such, but in the end it really dont make any difference as its the same as exploring on a mission even if it always involves combat. however, a change of view can sometimes be stimulating, if only for a short time.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
now you see things the way i do, its all meaningless and pointless. there are those who are super excited by an exploration content coming, ideas needed and such, but in the end it really dont make any difference as its the same as exploring on a mission even if it always involves combat. however, a change of view can sometimes be stimulating, if only for a short time.
agreed, having said that during the anniversary event for the particle game I have found a few places I have never visited before in my 3+ years, this leads me to think how much of the current available systems and content have I not yet explored especially if I include un-played foundry missions and I am betting there are a lot of players in the same situation if they would but admit it.
there is a heck of a lot of personal exploration as yet untapped for me in the game.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Exploration is certainly different things to different people, and what is Exploration in Star Trek is not necessarily Exploration in an MMO - and that can be part of the problem of defining what it should be and how an" Exploration System" would work.
In the TV show, exploration always lead to conflicts of some sort. Sometimes involving violence, sometimes involving ethical and moral dilemmas. In the end, they are all about having a real story. But a real story is something that needs a writer and it can't automatically generated with infinite variation. 31 Seasons of Star Trek also represent 31 years of studio production crews, actors and writers working together to get it done - and each year only resulting in something like 30 1 hour episodes.
Another aspect of the TV show's exploration was that it was not about exploring space or planets, it was about exploring human issues - conflicts, ethics. I think this is a part where Star Trek Online is falling short - too much is straightforward with more or less easy answers.
Exploration in MMOs (or maybe some MMOs, and all kinds of "sandbox" games) is usually more about going to difficult to reach places to find interesting spots. Be it a particularly rich resource node, or just a nice spot. The obstacles often are not enemies (though they can be), but are simple physical hindrances, like cliffs you can't scale and you need to find a path, dangerous and treacherous terrain, obstacles you need to jump and climb over.
In the TV shows, exploration was usually in the form of flying to a particular spot in place and then experiencing some story. And I fear in space, the MMO exploration has little place - Space is mostly empty. There aren't difficult obstacles to overcome. So you can't "MMO explore" in sector space, basically. Maybe you can do it within a particular star system (with planets, asteroid belts and what not as obstacles?). But you probably have to do it on a world.
But that would mean that a single, huge map on a planet would serve as "exploration zone". Like New Romulus or the Risa Summer Event map.
But for me, this just doesn't feel like "Star Trek". Star Trek is full of planets of the week, one matte painting, a SFX shot of the oribt, and 2 sets are all that is used to represent a planet, and in next week's episode, we'll visit another place (made out of a matte painting and 2 sets).
So I don't know... It seems like trying to square a circle if you try to combine the different forms of exploration to make it feel right.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Yeah, exploration in Star Trek really meant looking for dangerous things, then figuring out how to deal with them. They seemed to succeed quite well at that.
Problem is... how do you make a random near-disaster for the player to somehow avoid? Maybe a giant minigame that's like parkour for starships? heheh...
Obviously it would not satisfy everybody, but it would fit my thoughts on how things went down in Star Trek...
Some of the stuff mentioned in the bringing down the walls thread.
What would be nifty/cool/etc, imho, would be actually adding something to sector space. Work in some random encounters as one is flying around - maybe you get attacked, maybe you come across somebody else being attacked, maybe you come across somebody that was attacked and they need help, maybe you come across somebody that wasn't attacked and needs help, maybe you come across some anomaly to investigate, maybe all sorts of things like what happened from time to time in the various shows as our heroes were traveling from point A to point B...and not just the 3D map on our GPS as we set the autopilot to get somewhere...meh.
It's one of those things they'd mentioned with adding Foundry stuff to sector maps for planets with doors there and the like...could they create a "door" that worked from wherever the encounter was triggered? So folks could create Foundry missions that might appear as those random encounters?
Difficulty...enough Foundry missions fitting the areas one was flying through so it was not a case of getting the same thing all the time.
Also, something that actually encourages teaming up to do exploration missions would be good, like multiple class-specific activities that help progress the mission faster, etc.
To this I would add: Increasing mission rewards if you get more career-specific objectives completed.
Here's an (oversimplified!) idea for a reward structure. Let's say we have an exploration "mission" (in an exploration adventure zone?) with 1 sci, 1 tac, and 1 eng objective. After one of those three objectives is completed, the other two become optional and the mission can be continued, finished, and turned in (same as that Gamma shuttle mission in the Cardy featured series).
Let's say that this hypothetical mission awards R&D materials upon turn-in.
Doing 1 objective gives you 5 random Uncommon or Common materials, with a 20% chance that one or more of those materials will be Rare instead (sort of like how Doff packs from the C-Store work; a fixed number of items with a guaranteed minimum quality, with a chance for something higher).
Teaming and doing 2 objectives gives you 8 random Uncommon materials (removing Common from the loot table), now with a 40% chance for one or more of the mats to be Rare.
Teaming and doing all 3 objectives, which requires at least 1 player from each career, gives you 10 random Uncommon or Rare materials, with a 20% chance for one or more materials to be Very Rare.
That's a rough idea. The numbers would be tweaked in testing of course but the premise is that the more career-specific objectives get completed, the more rewards the team gets and/or the higher quality those rewards are. It doesn't have to be R&D mats, it could be as simple as 10/20/30 marks, or 50/100/250 dilithium ore (like high-paying Doff assignments), or 1000, 2000, 3000 skillpoints.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Exploration in Star Trek has never been the focus of the plot. It has been the *setting*. It's what the ship is out doing when something else happens. I posted my idea of randomized mission chains earlier, beyond that I'm not sure how Cryptic could try to make an exploration system.
Yeah, exploration in Star Trek really meant looking for dangerous things, then figuring out how to deal with them. They seemed to succeed quite well at that.
Problem is... how do you make a random near-disaster for the player to somehow avoid? Maybe a giant minigame that's like parkour for starships? heheh...
I think we're missing how much of it boiled down to performance.
I can be a big "story over mechanics" guy but if you get the mechanics right, story will emerge to some extent.
The game as it launched was basically a prototype episode simulator but it focused on simulating the action, which meant the story had to be manually scripted.
If you can model story and world more in the mechanics, you can not only have more emergent "sandbox" play, you can mass produce content more easily and have it be more replayable.
Although i didn't vote for Exploration, I do have a couple of ideas to throw out there.
Wormholes and make use of the Nebula around STO to add some different missions attached to them. Random unstable appearing Wormholes could present a player the option to explore somewhere they have never been and get a nice reward for it. Uncharted Nebula could be used to help mine crafting materials like the previously available missions.
Q could also appear and send players off to distant galaxies and places never visited before. This happened when Q introduced the TNG crew to the Borg. The Traveler could also be picked up from specific points around the STO galaxy or use a DOff mission to activate The Traveler to help him explore more unusual places. Like the TNG series, he took the Enterprise to places that were unimaginable to conceive in some cases.
that's an interesting idea since it gives a reason why we can't go back to where we were yesterday.
So many wonderful ideas here. As a non-programmer I couldn't say how feasible they might be, but it's great to see all the great ideas. Sorry for the inevitable repeats and the length, but, you DID ask for player input !!!
Make it big. Make it bold. It should be unpredictable, deep and broad, and I'd like it to combine as many of the different elements of STO as possible in creative and interrelated ways to keep multiple elements of the game fresh and relevant. Doing exploration as an expansion would probably be the minimum if something on this scale were to be attempted, and quite frankly, one for which I'd both wait... and pay.
Random/Unpredictable
So much of the stuff in STO, save brand-new content, is really quite predictable. There are a few exceptions (PvP and fleet alerts, for example), but mostly I know exactly what I'm going to get each time I click on something (loot drops not included). Runs of most STF's are the same unless someone screws up, and PvE content is the same. A lot of this is to be expected, and I understand that. But it would be fun to pick up short random missions (much like Very Rare Doff missions, and along the lines of Eta Eridani dailies) as I fly around sector space! Space monsters! Spacial anomalies! Derelict space vessels and bases! Alien Plagues! Distress Calls! More of these, especially if they spawn randomly like to red alerts. I don't want to necessarily go to system A and play mission B, as is most of the content in-game currently. It would be fun if some things pop up as I fly through sector space at a minimum, better yet in unexplored space or ground zones!
I may be in a minority, but I fondly remember replaying the first Borg STF's hoping to get the gear drop I need. At the time, I understood why players might not have liked it. The rewards were among the few real top-tier endgame equipment, and it was somewhat unfair to allow pure luck to govern who got what. But now there are multiple competitive endgame sets, it might be nice to have items that can only be found by exploring and getting lucky.
More specifically? Here are a few ideas based on these different systems:
Foundry
Like many here, I think the foundry is tailor-made for exploration, and a perfect starting point. We've got some amazing foundry authors who are putting up some really interesting stuff, and it would be a great way to invest the players that more tightly with the game. As somer have mentioned, the 'pick three' feature is a great idea that could be expanded on. If it really works out, it could generate a nearly self-sustaining and self-refreshing component of STO. If used to flesh out a dev-authored storyline and missions, even better. Heck, I wouldn't even mind doing those 'genesis'-era missions once in a while. The problem there is obvious, namely that on its own it's not up to scratch.
Perhaps players could choose the general length of the content they prefer, like shorter fifteen-minute mini-missions for people pressed for time, medium twenty to thirty minute episodes, all the way up to who knows how long, or folks could choose to keep it completely random. Authors who write series could be given the option of taking players directly to the next mission, or saving their place for later.
My personal preference with a foundry-based solution to exploration would be for the missions to be more or less random - players wouldn't be able to play specific missions they had heard of from other players, (or at least would have the choice to encounter random missions instead of parsing a list of missions) but would just stumble across cotent. Perhaps players could even choose their 'orders' from Starfleet for what types[/I of content they'd like (trade/combat/space/ground/charting/diplomatic/etc). If there was enough demand and enough exploration zones, foundry missions featuring specific races or situations (Borg/Delta quadrent, etc) could be placed in the appropriate places around the galaxy.
Maps/Locations
The easy answer would be to allow players to enter the various nebulas in-game, like the Rolar Nebula, etc. Perhaps over time there could be a dedicated storyline in each one? Obviously new zones could be developed as well, and I think a special Fleet zone would be great (see under Fleets next). I like the idea of revealing randomly generated zones that players would have to map out, like in the Civilization series where you literally have unexplored areas blacked out, and unmonitored areas grayed out.
Exploration could take place in more familiar settings as well - there are plenty of precedents in STO for discovering unusual things in familiar places. It would be a great way to revitalize planets like Andoria and Vulcan, which currently are little more than a place to visit once and largely forget about. The Aenar were found on Andoria in 'Enterprise'. 'Time's Arrow' from Next Generation focused on historic Earth. Heck, how often did exploration take place onboard the ships themselves, discovering new life that had accidentally or deliberately found its way on board? Adding universal interact points to ship interiors could be a way to introduce some very basic missions on our own ships, though this would likely be limited by the variety of interiors. Still, a good possibility to revitalize these types of underused areas.
Fleets/Social
As I said above, a team-centric, fleet-specific exploration zone could be great, perhaps complemented by a 'teaming zone' for players who choose not to join fleets. It could be a place for unique content, and I would suggest rewards be enhanced for these. A good way to encourage teaming would be to introduce and/or to enable in the foundry mechanics that encourage and reward teaming, and perhaps even encourage or require different professions to complete missions successfully (See below).
There could also bee a 'fleet outpost' holding, a kind of trading post for unusual alien gear or something similar. Alien Boffs/Doffs, etc.
Careers
Building on teaming up above, if dev- or player-authored missions required mixed teams to complete certain missions, that would be a good way to increase diversity. Say you NEEDED to have a teammate who is an engineer to gain entrance to a base, or a scientist/doctor to heal an important NPC in order to progress the mission, or the team gets stuck or fails the mission. STF's are probably the easiest area to introduce this kind of content, but a lot could be done in the foundry. After all, how many episodes required an engineer or a doctor present to save the day? Kirk could never have healed the Horta, and Scotty...? We probably don't get past the first couple episodes of season 1 of TOS without Mr. Scott!
New non-combat specialization trees or even new 'career paths' could help to further a player's exploration/overall game experience. Allowing players to be explorers, diplomats, traders, etc., would be really interesting.
Crafting/gear/Rep system
Perhaps a new kind of mission would require players to craft equipment on the spot as required in missions. Perhaps a player would need to craft a special piece of alien technology to advance in a mission, maybe a special shield/weapon/engine modification. Don't carry the parts? Fail the mission. Seems like every other episode required jury-rigging equipment, modifying shield/phasers/tricorders/communicators, or integrating alien tech into Starfleet technology. Crafting would be cool to introduce here if done right.
Perhaps players would need to craft special tech to enter a new exploration zone, much like ships had to be specially outfitted to enter the briar patch. Entering the T'Ong nebula requires Thingamajigger stabilizers to enter? Gotta craft it! It could be a big project, even a tier of a reputation system a la New Romulus.
It would also be interesting to offer a new set as an exploration-only item. You can't earn or craft it, you just have to search system after system until you're lucky enough to find it, or perhaps you could do something like the Breen Star Chart to deduce locations (solve problem, enter coordinates and warp there, different for every player would be awesome. If it's different for every player and cash/EC/dilithium has little or no effect on getting the gear, it would be fair.
Doffs
Require (or offer) Doff missions in PvE missions more regularly. I thought the doff missions offered in the DS9 feature episode was a nice touch. Doff missions in PvP might be interesting too, such as missions to create defenses at captured points.
Resources
I really like the idea others had about making potential exploration missions feature resource points, as a number of PvE maps do currently. Expanding them would be good too - imagine discovering crates of medical supplies/alien tech/rare or VR crafting materials/unique alien ship or ground equipment, and especially dilithium mining nodes. If you're worried about too much dilithium, limit the daily amount of ore that can be earned through exploration.
PvP
I'm no PvP'er, but it would be great to find a way to integrate PvP. So Often in Trek episodes, two opposing sides have to race to reach an objective. I think PvP offers a really interesting way to integrate this type of episode with real-life opponents. It needn't be combat-based, either. It could be diplomatic, trade, research, etc. options.
Perhaps competitions between players or fleets in missions or as STF/PvP maps for resources and rewards would be a great way to bring players back in to PvP.
PvE
You guys make some pretty awesome story content. I'll stay out of this, other than to say integrating different systems into PvE, as is done to a small extent now, would be really cool. Others have recommended cycling content. Imagine having six pr seven missions that would spawn randomly, serving the purpose of the small daily missions like those found in Eta Eridani.
C store
I get it, you gotta make your money. If you're exploring new zones, you could sell players increased sensor ranges to better map areas or find missions/items, spy satellites to monitor explored area and report changes in already-explored areas outside your sensor range, who knows? There could even be things like lockboxes for the different exploration zones that are constantly offered, like a 'Kazon Cluster' or 'Betraka Nebula' lockbox.
Add Fog of War to exploration sectors and ground maps, hide unique encounters in them that have unique rewards (like unique technologies, items for inside your ship, clothing, boffs, doffs, etc. and searching every nook and cranny becomes a must.
Comments
I certainly miss the old missions, as they were true Trek, you never knew what you were going to get, Blow these Enemy Ships Up, Defend this Space Base Thing, or maybe Land on This Planet and Run Around Clicking the Glowies While Not Getting Your TRIBBLE Shot Off, etc etc. That was Trek. Far different from the mission arcs, where you know EXACTLY what is going to happen, every single time. That's not Trek, that's Linear Storyline Progression, as opposed to Open World Progression. Since the removal of the cluster exploration missions, I personally have felt like half the content in the game has just been dropped, in favor of directed, closed-in world, linear storylines, or "quests" if you will, that everyone has to do in order to get to the new shiny-shiny.
Dropping the clusters was a bad move. Hopefully they will bring it back, to keep people from getting bored if nothing else. I don't know what reason they may have given for dropping them in the first place, maybe it was server lag, I don't know, BUT... maybe they were planning on making something LIKE these missions show up in sector space? I mean, recently they did say something about Foundry missions showing up in sector space, well, what they NEED to do, is have RANDOM appearing NEW planetary systems that appear IN SECTOR SPACE, which look different, I dunno, all shiny and orange or something to get people's attention. THEN, you can fly into it for a random mission. Other players might not even see it! WHo KNows?? That's the beauty of Trek, baby!! To go where No One Has Gone Before!! :eek:
Feds can explor strange new worlds... basiclly just see this
Roms can cart their egos around, make contact with powerful races and enslave less powerful ones
KDFs: WARRIORS! If we encounter a more feeble race then they will be considered jegh'pwl, if we encounter a powerful opponant then we shall garrhh honor garrghh and asend into sto'vo'kor! QAPLA!
This sounds good to me
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
My character Tsin'xing
I don't have much experience playing video games....but from reading what anazonda wrote here... I am going to assume this Bottle cap hunting in Fallout 3 is similar to the "Skill Nodes" on Neverwinter Online (the "sister" game to STO, which I have tried).
I can spend lots of time wandering the various location maps on NWO looking for those thievery, arcana, religion, nature and dungeoneering skill nodes that are hidden everywhere!! Why isn't this in STO??? It is kinda fun!
Granted, most of the nodes are in the same spots but finding them every single time is an interesting journey (thanks to Trolls, Skeletons, Ghosts, Zombies, obstacle courses of various types etc....not to mention brain fog issues). Sometimes they are already gone.
STO did something similar on in New Romulus with the rock, plant, radiation scans. And with the Anniversary and the Omega mini game. Never know where they would show up...nor how many one would find at a given time. And one would have to wander around, looking for the interact points.
Granted, on NWO, the "treasures" found are more USEFUL since they can be used all throughout the game for crafting or refining or healing or profit.
Plus on NWO, sometimes you can hit a mother lode of crafting materials...other times not so much. THAT is how you use RNG to make things interesting. It makes me want to keep looking and see what can happen. (BTW...this is why I enjoy DOFFing, also...I want to see what can happen. But I hate crafting because RNG used for evil)
This sort of "exploring" with skill nodes (or minigames) is already possible to do with the program....just have to add it in more places. Maybe a good reason for people to drop in on Wolf 359, Vulcan, Andoria, Bajor, Risa or New Romulus or fly to the far side of Qo'nos once in a while (some of those have to be opened up to KDF side).
Hide them all over the "Battle Zone" ground maps, too (it might get more people out of the command center between VRexes).
Players like me (who are not traditional "video gamers") need a way to "farm" R&D materials and Rep currencies without causing conflicts and fights with those wanting a "good" STF run. I just can not get coordinated with all those buttons, so STFs is just not "my thing". Maybe one day.... with more time and tons of practice.
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Another thing already in the game that has possibilities for exploration is what you have done with ACCOLADES. Short "missions" within a story or with a progression (like Pavel on Risa). Stick them in different locations....these can be focused toward Classes, Schools, Careers, Races...etc... I know I am getting all my terms mixed up...sorry...I think Classes is NWO.
People can help each other out, too. I needed help from my friend to figure out most of the ones on New Romulus (I so suck at jumping and climbing)....I haven't even found all the ones on Nimbus....didn't start Delta Rising (I guess, that would be Kobali).
There really is no reason to get so complicated, or try to emulate some other, newer game platform...just use what is already there.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Investigations. A series of resource and information gathering scenarios, which can also be randomly obtained via the the DOFF system, divided into three basic fields:
Artifact: Use your ships ready room, science lab, and engineering factilites to aid you in piecing together what a particular artifact may be and/or how it operates and what its purpose is. This might even lead to furthering your investigation to locate other parts or companion pieces of said artifact; similar to what the mercenaries where doing in the episode "Gambit".
Intelligence: This will usually point you to a particular location to investigate unusual activity of some kind; "Tin Man" is a prime example of this, though they won't always include combat scenarios.
Anomaly: Encountered while traveling through the game world either through sector space, the DOFF system, and even some social hub maps. You need to analyze the anomaly and determine what it is, with random outcomes dependent on whether it is a natural phenomenon or an artificially generated one. Artificial ones may end up with something emerging from it that might need to be aided, contained, or even fought. It may even end up with you being pulled into another location; think Elachi, Solanae, and Undine abduction scenarios.
These investigations can even use a combination of two or even all three types; a piece of gathered intelligence might yield an artifact that then needs to be analyzed, which then opens up an anomaly.
In addition to having some of these investigations started by duty officer assignments themselves, you will also get new duty officer assignments during an investigation that may require your DOFFs to gather and locate new resources and/or intel on possible new locations and people who might aid you in your quest to unlock these mysteries. An example would be information about a buried artifact, or part of one, located somewhere on Androia's ground map which you'll need to investigate, locate and then excavate on the surface.
The byproduct of this is to also utilise areas and locations in the game that are either not used at all or see very little use, in the hope that resources might also be spent on updating and improving these areas of the game world.
STO is capable of at least some of basics of this idea already, in missions like: "Standoff"; "Ancestral Sin"; "Cold Case"; and "Cold Comfort".
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
It's how crafting mats work/used to work. Except that you don't normally find crafting mats in social zones.
My character Tsin'xing
They added Omega crafting materials in social zones for the Anniversary Omega mini game. So, they CAN do it if they wanted to. Although, it made every place laggy as heck.... so...it needs work.
Why can't they hide these interact nodes all over the un-named parts of the universe and make people hunt them down in low activity areas?
You can't tell me people visit Wolf 359 or Vulcan or Andoria regularly...or Risa...in the off season. (Well, I do with my Ferengi once in a blue moon for commodities, Entertainment provisions and regular Provisions).
Or stick nodes in already made battle zones which should already be optimized for large groups (should, I said, should).
Exploration in a video game....without adding an entire new "unexplored system" and associated maps (which, to me, sounds like something Cryptic does NOT want to do, because they just took all that out).....what else is there?
You have to make people feel like they are getting "out" and "exploring" IN locations that are already there but not often used. Maybe it will look different when the sectors merge and there is more space in "outer space".
There could be a point that becomes the "unknown universe" out on the edges of the new merged space. I think in Dyson they called it "Allied Zone" and "Contested Zone"...there is "stuff" to do in both places but it is a border that is really not a border (fly between them), isn't it?
There are, also, tons of places on maps that don't seem used or NPCs that just sit there. I play KDF and I know there are labyrinths of corridors in First City that are, well, just there, as far as I know. It was part of the tutorial when I first started my KDF (at level 20)....but I think that is obsolete now. Maybe it is still used for the foundry??? Doubtful.
On the old ESD there was an entire second level with just hallways and doors, not sure if they did that with the new one, I hardly ever go there. You don't have to have "First Encounters" with alien species in the far reaches of space or while on board a ship. Ask that Egg Head guy who got turned into an Undine while hanging out in the rotunda of the old ESD.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Bottlecaps are the equivalent of Dilithium...
What makes it worth looking for them, is that regardless of your level, you can always get something for it...
Food, water, Ammo, Weapons, gear... Bribes...
That, combined with a wonderful mechanic of wear on gear, along with random encounters makes you want to go back to places that you know is dangerous, because they often yield more caps (Fallout is set in a post-apocalyptic scenario).
That is nice. Opening an instant grand prize.
Although, part of the problem on Neverwinter Online is all the "gold sellers" out there "hunting" those Nodes, too.
And, thinking about it, now, even though it is fun for me to look for skill nodes for half an hour or so....there are others who do it for profit. Not sure STO economy would survive that change.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Honestly though, I think exploration would benefit from being tied into as many parts of the game as possible so it feels like it is a big part of the game, that's the main thing as far as I see it because after all, Trek was mainly about the exploring.
IMHO - Without exploration it's not really Star Trek, but that does not mean the exploration of a planet could not turn into an adventure that also includes action and adventure (read as space combat/ground combat). 28 seasons of Star Trek proved it can be done. Not all episodes begin with exploration, but so many do and then it turns out that there is an adventure on the other side of the hills that they have been scanning or down in a cave in that hill or maybe a bunny hops out from behind a tree and exclaims, "Oh, I'm late! I'm very, very late!" before disappearing down a large rabbit hole. Forget that last one, it's been done. And done with lots of adventure I might add.
If STO wants to be only all about the movies then it's going to be nothing but space combat and ground combat and that's it.
Still, I see your point. Who would want to be the guy who's job it is to create new planets/systems for every single unexplored system. Well, that WOULD be a boring. So take a page out of the original Star Trek. Reuse the planets. Same planet, different color.
Or is that what The Foundry is for? Now that I think about it, maybe this is a task better suited for those guys who can use The Foundry. One of my fav Foundry eps begins with exploration and leads to a whole different mission.
Scanning for crafting mats is still doable, just not quite as quick since it's largely confined to story missions now.
IMO the biggest fault of the old clusters was that you went looking but you never really found anything. Today I might catalogue gaseous anomalies in a previously unknown system.... but tomorrow I won't remember where the system was. Is it really exploration if you don't bother to chart where you've been? It seems more like aimless wandering.
My character Tsin'xing
Well....you are just describing "Episodes".....Skip, Hail, or Replay....various buttons grayed out if you already did it or not. Keeping track for you.
Or Accolades that get checked off on the "accolades" tab....another list. There were accolades in there for visiting Clusters...but I don't think that is what we are looking for either.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
That doesn't mean every adventure in Star Trek was a pew-pew fest like it tends to be in STO, but asking for different types of adventures isn't the same as asking for exploration. I think different types of adventures would be cool - problem solving things that don't involve giving the command to fire everything! A first contact mission where there is no conflict, no drama, is not something we saw on Star Trek...there was the conflict, the drama, the action, the adventure.
I'm just oft befuddled by folks asking for exploration as the missing aspect, when it was missing from the IP in the first place...rather than asking for a wider assortment of adventures, which were part of the IP and are kind of lacking in STO.
I promise I will come back and read it after I grab Q-mendations on my Tac and Sci.
EDIT: Colonelmarik....I just took a look at the post in your siggy....I think I am gonna just have to print it out and get back to you tomorrow.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Thank you guys for looking at this thread. It is a long one with good ideas.
I personally liked the Romulus walk through mission where you shoot the bottles. It is little details like that which make an exploration mission. Just something random and fun to do. As mentioned in the poll you did, I mentioned player made and voted exploration zone content. It wouldn't hurt having your own in there. The concern is the content needs to be controlled some how. some maps aren't exploration based that players make.
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Problem is... how do you make a random near-disaster for the player to somehow avoid? Maybe a giant minigame that's like parkour for starships? heheh...
My character Tsin'xing
Wormholes and make use of the Nebula around STO to add some different missions attached to them. Random unstable appearing Wormholes could present a player the option to explore somewhere they have never been and get a nice reward for it. Uncharted Nebula could be used to help mine crafting materials like the previously available missions.
Q could also appear and send players off to distant galaxies and places never visited before. This happened when Q introduced the TNG crew to the Borg. The Traveler could also be picked up from specific points around the STO galaxy or use a DOff mission to activate The Traveler to help him explore more unusual places. Like the TNG series, he took the Enterprise to places that were unimaginable to conceive in some cases.
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even with a game like elite dangerous with its 400 billion star systems you will find that most are very similar and offer very little new stuff to see, planets you can explore or life you can seek out, especially when the gameplay makes you want to visit the core star systems for the tradeing that is the main thread of the game.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
now you see things the way i do, its all meaningless and pointless. there are those who are super excited by an exploration content coming, ideas needed and such, but in the end it really dont make any difference as its the same as exploring on a mission even if it always involves combat. however, a change of view can sometimes be stimulating, if only for a short time.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
agreed, having said that during the anniversary event for the particle game I have found a few places I have never visited before in my 3+ years, this leads me to think how much of the current available systems and content have I not yet explored especially if I include un-played foundry missions and I am betting there are a lot of players in the same situation if they would but admit it.
there is a heck of a lot of personal exploration as yet untapped for me in the game.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
In the TV show, exploration always lead to conflicts of some sort. Sometimes involving violence, sometimes involving ethical and moral dilemmas. In the end, they are all about having a real story. But a real story is something that needs a writer and it can't automatically generated with infinite variation. 31 Seasons of Star Trek also represent 31 years of studio production crews, actors and writers working together to get it done - and each year only resulting in something like 30 1 hour episodes.
Another aspect of the TV show's exploration was that it was not about exploring space or planets, it was about exploring human issues - conflicts, ethics. I think this is a part where Star Trek Online is falling short - too much is straightforward with more or less easy answers.
Exploration in MMOs (or maybe some MMOs, and all kinds of "sandbox" games) is usually more about going to difficult to reach places to find interesting spots. Be it a particularly rich resource node, or just a nice spot. The obstacles often are not enemies (though they can be), but are simple physical hindrances, like cliffs you can't scale and you need to find a path, dangerous and treacherous terrain, obstacles you need to jump and climb over.
In the TV shows, exploration was usually in the form of flying to a particular spot in place and then experiencing some story. And I fear in space, the MMO exploration has little place - Space is mostly empty. There aren't difficult obstacles to overcome. So you can't "MMO explore" in sector space, basically. Maybe you can do it within a particular star system (with planets, asteroid belts and what not as obstacles?). But you probably have to do it on a world.
But that would mean that a single, huge map on a planet would serve as "exploration zone". Like New Romulus or the Risa Summer Event map.
But for me, this just doesn't feel like "Star Trek". Star Trek is full of planets of the week, one matte painting, a SFX shot of the oribt, and 2 sets are all that is used to represent a planet, and in next week's episode, we'll visit another place (made out of a matte painting and 2 sets).
So I don't know... It seems like trying to square a circle if you try to combine the different forms of exploration to make it feel right.
Obviously it would not satisfy everybody, but it would fit my thoughts on how things went down in Star Trek...
Some of the stuff mentioned in the bringing down the walls thread.
Difficulty...enough Foundry missions fitting the areas one was flying through so it was not a case of getting the same thing all the time.
To this I would add: Increasing mission rewards if you get more career-specific objectives completed.
Here's an (oversimplified!) idea for a reward structure. Let's say we have an exploration "mission" (in an exploration adventure zone?) with 1 sci, 1 tac, and 1 eng objective. After one of those three objectives is completed, the other two become optional and the mission can be continued, finished, and turned in (same as that Gamma shuttle mission in the Cardy featured series).
Let's say that this hypothetical mission awards R&D materials upon turn-in.
That's a rough idea. The numbers would be tweaked in testing of course but the premise is that the more career-specific objectives get completed, the more rewards the team gets and/or the higher quality those rewards are. It doesn't have to be R&D mats, it could be as simple as 10/20/30 marks, or 50/100/250 dilithium ore (like high-paying Doff assignments), or 1000, 2000, 3000 skillpoints.
Joined January 2009
I think we're missing how much of it boiled down to performance.
I can be a big "story over mechanics" guy but if you get the mechanics right, story will emerge to some extent.
The game as it launched was basically a prototype episode simulator but it focused on simulating the action, which meant the story had to be manually scripted.
If you can model story and world more in the mechanics, you can not only have more emergent "sandbox" play, you can mass produce content more easily and have it be more replayable.
My character Tsin'xing
Make it big. Make it bold. It should be unpredictable, deep and broad, and I'd like it to combine as many of the different elements of STO as possible in creative and interrelated ways to keep multiple elements of the game fresh and relevant. Doing exploration as an expansion would probably be the minimum if something on this scale were to be attempted, and quite frankly, one for which I'd both wait... and pay.
Random/Unpredictable
So much of the stuff in STO, save brand-new content, is really quite predictable. There are a few exceptions (PvP and fleet alerts, for example), but mostly I know exactly what I'm going to get each time I click on something (loot drops not included). Runs of most STF's are the same unless someone screws up, and PvE content is the same. A lot of this is to be expected, and I understand that. But it would be fun to pick up short random missions (much like Very Rare Doff missions, and along the lines of Eta Eridani dailies) as I fly around sector space! Space monsters! Spacial anomalies! Derelict space vessels and bases! Alien Plagues! Distress Calls! More of these, especially if they spawn randomly like to red alerts. I don't want to necessarily go to system A and play mission B, as is most of the content in-game currently. It would be fun if some things pop up as I fly through sector space at a minimum, better yet in unexplored space or ground zones!
I may be in a minority, but I fondly remember replaying the first Borg STF's hoping to get the gear drop I need. At the time, I understood why players might not have liked it. The rewards were among the few real top-tier endgame equipment, and it was somewhat unfair to allow pure luck to govern who got what. But now there are multiple competitive endgame sets, it might be nice to have items that can only be found by exploring and getting lucky.
More specifically? Here are a few ideas based on these different systems:
Foundry
Like many here, I think the foundry is tailor-made for exploration, and a perfect starting point. We've got some amazing foundry authors who are putting up some really interesting stuff, and it would be a great way to invest the players that more tightly with the game. As somer have mentioned, the 'pick three' feature is a great idea that could be expanded on. If it really works out, it could generate a nearly self-sustaining and self-refreshing component of STO. If used to flesh out a dev-authored storyline and missions, even better. Heck, I wouldn't even mind doing those 'genesis'-era missions once in a while. The problem there is obvious, namely that on its own it's not up to scratch.
Perhaps players could choose the general length of the content they prefer, like shorter fifteen-minute mini-missions for people pressed for time, medium twenty to thirty minute episodes, all the way up to who knows how long, or folks could choose to keep it completely random. Authors who write series could be given the option of taking players directly to the next mission, or saving their place for later.
My personal preference with a foundry-based solution to exploration would be for the missions to be more or less random - players wouldn't be able to play specific missions they had heard of from other players, (or at least would have the choice to encounter random missions instead of parsing a list of missions) but would just stumble across cotent. Perhaps players could even choose their 'orders' from Starfleet for what types[/I of content they'd like (trade/combat/space/ground/charting/diplomatic/etc). If there was enough demand and enough exploration zones, foundry missions featuring specific races or situations (Borg/Delta quadrent, etc) could be placed in the appropriate places around the galaxy.
Maps/Locations
The easy answer would be to allow players to enter the various nebulas in-game, like the Rolar Nebula, etc. Perhaps over time there could be a dedicated storyline in each one? Obviously new zones could be developed as well, and I think a special Fleet zone would be great (see under Fleets next). I like the idea of revealing randomly generated zones that players would have to map out, like in the Civilization series where you literally have unexplored areas blacked out, and unmonitored areas grayed out.
Exploration could take place in more familiar settings as well - there are plenty of precedents in STO for discovering unusual things in familiar places. It would be a great way to revitalize planets like Andoria and Vulcan, which currently are little more than a place to visit once and largely forget about. The Aenar were found on Andoria in 'Enterprise'. 'Time's Arrow' from Next Generation focused on historic Earth. Heck, how often did exploration take place onboard the ships themselves, discovering new life that had accidentally or deliberately found its way on board? Adding universal interact points to ship interiors could be a way to introduce some very basic missions on our own ships, though this would likely be limited by the variety of interiors. Still, a good possibility to revitalize these types of underused areas.
Fleets/Social
As I said above, a team-centric, fleet-specific exploration zone could be great, perhaps complemented by a 'teaming zone' for players who choose not to join fleets. It could be a place for unique content, and I would suggest rewards be enhanced for these. A good way to encourage teaming would be to introduce and/or to enable in the foundry mechanics that encourage and reward teaming, and perhaps even encourage or require different professions to complete missions successfully (See below).
There could also bee a 'fleet outpost' holding, a kind of trading post for unusual alien gear or something similar. Alien Boffs/Doffs, etc.
Careers
Building on teaming up above, if dev- or player-authored missions required mixed teams to complete certain missions, that would be a good way to increase diversity. Say you NEEDED to have a teammate who is an engineer to gain entrance to a base, or a scientist/doctor to heal an important NPC in order to progress the mission, or the team gets stuck or fails the mission. STF's are probably the easiest area to introduce this kind of content, but a lot could be done in the foundry. After all, how many episodes required an engineer or a doctor present to save the day? Kirk could never have healed the Horta, and Scotty...? We probably don't get past the first couple episodes of season 1 of TOS without Mr. Scott!
New non-combat specialization trees or even new 'career paths' could help to further a player's exploration/overall game experience. Allowing players to be explorers, diplomats, traders, etc., would be really interesting.
Crafting/gear/Rep system
Perhaps a new kind of mission would require players to craft equipment on the spot as required in missions. Perhaps a player would need to craft a special piece of alien technology to advance in a mission, maybe a special shield/weapon/engine modification. Don't carry the parts? Fail the mission. Seems like every other episode required jury-rigging equipment, modifying shield/phasers/tricorders/communicators, or integrating alien tech into Starfleet technology. Crafting would be cool to introduce here if done right.
Perhaps players would need to craft special tech to enter a new exploration zone, much like ships had to be specially outfitted to enter the briar patch. Entering the T'Ong nebula requires Thingamajigger stabilizers to enter? Gotta craft it! It could be a big project, even a tier of a reputation system a la New Romulus.
It would also be interesting to offer a new set as an exploration-only item. You can't earn or craft it, you just have to search system after system until you're lucky enough to find it, or perhaps you could do something like the Breen Star Chart to deduce locations (solve problem, enter coordinates and warp there, different for every player would be awesome. If it's different for every player and cash/EC/dilithium has little or no effect on getting the gear, it would be fair.
Doffs
Require (or offer) Doff missions in PvE missions more regularly. I thought the doff missions offered in the DS9 feature episode was a nice touch. Doff missions in PvP might be interesting too, such as missions to create defenses at captured points.
Resources
I really like the idea others had about making potential exploration missions feature resource points, as a number of PvE maps do currently. Expanding them would be good too - imagine discovering crates of medical supplies/alien tech/rare or VR crafting materials/unique alien ship or ground equipment, and especially dilithium mining nodes. If you're worried about too much dilithium, limit the daily amount of ore that can be earned through exploration.
PvP
I'm no PvP'er, but it would be great to find a way to integrate PvP. So Often in Trek episodes, two opposing sides have to race to reach an objective. I think PvP offers a really interesting way to integrate this type of episode with real-life opponents. It needn't be combat-based, either. It could be diplomatic, trade, research, etc. options.
Perhaps competitions between players or fleets in missions or as STF/PvP maps for resources and rewards would be a great way to bring players back in to PvP.
PvE
You guys make some pretty awesome story content. I'll stay out of this, other than to say integrating different systems into PvE, as is done to a small extent now, would be really cool. Others have recommended cycling content. Imagine having six pr seven missions that would spawn randomly, serving the purpose of the small daily missions like those found in Eta Eridani.
C store
I get it, you gotta make your money. If you're exploring new zones, you could sell players increased sensor ranges to better map areas or find missions/items, spy satellites to monitor explored area and report changes in already-explored areas outside your sensor range, who knows? There could even be things like lockboxes for the different exploration zones that are constantly offered, like a 'Kazon Cluster' or 'Betraka Nebula' lockbox.