With all the different game play mechanics in game I think there are a few things that might be interesting.
Dilithium mining in random locations. It never worked on Nukara due to the number of enemies but surely dilithium should be in a few more locations. the new omega mini game could be applied to random particle collection on the ground.
Random accolades in missions for reaching the highest points.
I think New Romulas Adventure zone and the romulan mission where you find new romulas captured that perfectly.
Not every type of exploration mission has to involve shooting and collecting. The last mission proved that with the maze, plateforms and electro-shock therapy.
Part of exploration can also be finding yourself crashed landed on a planet. Take a wooded area like the map from alpha and disable our map and instead only leave us with our tricorder to find out way off and have particles lead us like bread crumbs.
While genisis was pretty bad for making missions I think random landscapes without civilization might be doable with it. Just remove the buildings.
And if we randomely find a rich dilithium vein now and then or a very rare data sample every so often might be enough to encourage us to do so.
How about an exploration reputation system where we earn marks for exploring these worlds.
I think there is lots of potential without having to have a mission of run and gun.
Edit: When it comes to what traits can be awarded to an exploration rep why not add traits that can give bonuses when mining Dil Ore or even improve the odds of slightly better material drops when scanning.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
What about a quarterly release of Exploration missions?
* Create a set number of unique maps which are released once every three months.
* Reward marks and/or dilithium to encourage repeat play.
* Set the missions on the fringe of the new Galaxy Map. Make players travel to them.
* Given the perceived limitations of the game engine, there isn't a lot of flexibility in mission types, (meaning space/ground pew-pew or scanning). So, make it a mini-story within the map. Examples could include:
- Supply Line: Beam down to a planet where a previous exploration mission needs assistance (supplies or medical). Help solve a medical emergency that arises.
- Hunted: Beam down to a planet (like the KDF's "Alpha" mission) where it's a trap... You've walked into a Hirogen hunting ground.
- Rescue and Recovery: An expedition has gone missed. Locate the missing crewmembers (escape pods, main craft).
- First Contact: dialogue driven diplomatic mini-story.
Those are some examples. Give time and others can also further suggest exploration mission ideas.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
this exact question is why I chose missions. being that I tried to cough up ideas, the only ones I had were rather involved... random maps and dialogue trees by the million that could be plugged an plopped together.. how to have the game do that w/o ending up with some of the absurd maps the old exploration clusters had? And similarly absurd dialogue? I just don't know...
some of the best ideas I see were put forth by gavinruneblade
Modular design. Random le gth adding modular elements. Over to e you can add more modules.
Mix in some of the nicer features from missions that have never been used often enough:
* Eng/sci/TAC sub objectives only that class can do, encourages teams
* Integrated doff missions (ala the 2800, or nimbus iii) that further the plot
* Using the ship interior/computer (ala mine enemy)
* unlocking new options via dialog as a puzzle (the cardassian diplomacy mission in bajor orbit, the defera ambassador diplomacy mission at sb39 is another great example)
* multiple paths/choices where you can't do everything (Gaul's attack on the talaxians)
* options that unlock based on items, doff skill, or previous actions (the 2800 dealing with diplomats then the big meeting)
The combo of random plus crafted will work better than either alone. Also those mini objectives in the dyson sphere are great for this sort of thing.
But the biggest goal is to emphasize logic over combat (which is not to say, no combat).
I also think, as someone else posted, that allowing Foundry authors to aid you here would be a really brilliant idea, which would mean giving the foundry tools a major upgrade so that its not a gimped and frustrating piece of TRIBBLE anymore.
Actually, the champions nemesis system might be a great starting point, redefine it as a "first contact system". Design a unique alien species from a limited selection of characteristics, have a first contact scripted adventure with them, then run through a mixture of random missions and scripted missions until a big finale of either they get assigned a permanent fed/kling/romulan embassy on their world, or are banned until they clean up their act, etc.
Nemesis is on timers and has a mix of elements. Could have foundry contests to write new scripted missions that get added over time.
Would be a good start so you don't need to begin from scratch.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with the people who said to make it a Foundry function.
Realistically there is no way for the development team to make enough missions, even short ones, to allow for enough exploration. Also... procedural generation makes things less interesting than making them by hand.
Hello, I would like to make a suggestion ; I think adding an exploration system like in other games with similar topics would be great , for example in uncharted waters Online exploration system, there are discoveries, and any player can get a quest where you can discover anything, in sto the discoveries would be related to planets, stars, old ruins, animals, etc, and when you complete the quest you receive experience , also you have a journal where the discoveries are added. Finally you get an album with your discoveries registered and it will give rewards or special status for players for completing it.
Another thing to mention would be that the quests should change more, like having a set of assignments changing per hour for you to choose, and also you could get maps or notes to discover other things. It will fit perfectly in the game, and you wouldnt need to expand the game map or anything else.
Also, i think the game needs a trading system, in which you can buy goods from planets , transport them and sell them in other planets. Ferengi ships and federation cargo ships could be used for that. Its a feature i like from uncharted waters online, and it s pretty fun. http://www.mmorpg-center.com/wp-content/gallery/uncharted-waters-online/uwo_trade.jpg
I'm sure it has probably been mentioned more than once already, but I really liked the old first contact and diplomatic missions. Going on board your observation lounge and meeting with two different group and trying to mediate conflicts or opening first contact dialogue would be interesting.
Here's a thought that might save a bit of time; instead of exploration clusters or random sector space encounters, why not create a small group of exploration zones (like Mol'rhian. Kobali Prime or the Dyson Battleground)?
In short, you'd beam down to a large ground map and get to work on missions there. Different maps have different missions that crop up in rotation. Furthermore, Mol'rhian could be revisited and tweaked - I think the main reason that one is no longer popular is because it doesn't reward near half as much as it should considering the time invested.
Exploration zones could work (be them space or ground). A few select large maps, with multiple missions within them.
Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with the people who said to make it a Foundry function.
Realistically there is no way for the development team to make enough missions, even short ones, to allow for enough exploration. Also... procedural generation makes things less interesting than making them by hand.
Essentially this serves the function of crowdsourcing the maps and mission design--and this has benefits not just from a time and labor perspective for Cryptic, but also benefits them by getting some new eyes on the storyline (or alternate storylines altogether) whereas if you are working with the same people on the same ideas all the time, it's that much harder to resist settling into patterns and preconceptions.
Now, to Cryptic's credit, I AM seeing true episodes (I do not count patrols) getting far more creative with each new one. But still, one of the quickest ways to give a true sense of exploration is to literally see the STO universe through different sets of eyes entirely.
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My only problem with leaving exploration strictly to the foundry is the foundry doesn't have though tools to have more fun with explorations. If we as a player could select interact points to trigger one of the mini games (mining, wave form, particle collection) and maybe even choose up to 4 of those spawn points instead of the 4 predetermined points on the map it might add to the hunt and gather experience.
I would definitely want to see a major foundry revamp if this is the strategy to exploration.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Make a giant temple on some remote barren world with a mix of puzzles we need to do to advance.. maybe a jumping challenge... I love them.
Make a giant temple on some remote barren world with a mix of puzzles we need to do to advance.. maybe a jumping challenge... I love them.
Legends of the Hidden Temple???
(Anybody else remember that show?)
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The other big thing to recommend here, is to have a focus group. Get, like ten or fifteen PLAYERS to sign NDAs (non disclosure agrements) and be involved giving feedback and helping shape the project. At least two, preferably more should be established and successful foundry authors. And the focus group, needs to be OK being voted down, because helping and feedback =/= control.
exploration like in startrek or lets say stargate is cool.
but what we all forget is, though these explorations are described as "coincidal" exploration of myths, its actually a written script of brilliand authors.
a random generated content engine can never ever meet these expectations.
thats why I think, the way of adding " bare space" into the game and let foundry authors place their cool stuff there is the
ONLY
way this is doable, so real exploration feeling like in startrek or scifi in general is met at all.
so i think foundry and exploration + free uncharted space are going best.
i hope with the sector revamp they will add in "blank" places into the map at some border places and let foundry authors place their missions there. this would be the best way.
randomly generated content will never meet those expectations.
also for this purpose the descriptions for a foundry should be more clear. i recently was flying by some in dafera sector and while i liked the idea behind it, i was hesitant cause i couldnt read a short description before entering.
also those maps should be categorized:
space only
sspace and ground
ground only.
and id encourage cryptic and authors to make "space exploration" like missions. i generally like space more, cause i like flying my ship more that running around with my captain. so - im not speaking of kill missions in space, but exploration and story missions, but more while onboard a ship, dialogues and all that, but while sitting on my ship.
My only problem with leaving exploration strictly to the foundry is the foundry doesn't have though tools to have more fun with explorations. If we as a player could select interact points to trigger one of the mini games (mining, wave form, particle collection) and maybe even choose up to 4 of those spawn points instead of the 4 predetermined points on the map it might add to the hunt and gather experience.
I would definitely want to see a major foundry revamp if this is the strategy to exploration.
This is the biggie. It needs to be a mix of Dev and foundry. Neither can do it justice alone.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Managed to locate the thread I was talking about, Taco!
There are some extremely good ideas in this thread Taco, I'm not sure how much of them would be possible to work in STO and the engine, etc. - however I'm pretty sure there are quite a few that could.
I highly recommend someone in charge of developing such content to give this thread a read, the OP and some other players obviously spent a lot of time and went above and beyond in detailed ideas, suggestions and possibilites for exploration content. I'm sure someone would be able to draw much inspiration from there.
The other big thing to recommend here, is to have a focus group. Get, like ten or fifteen PLAYERS to sign NDAs (non disclosure agrements) and be involved giving feedback and helping shape the project. At least two, preferably more should be established and successful foundry authors. And the focus group, needs to be OK being voted down, because helping and feedback =/= control.
Still, it would help immeasurably.
As long as it did not conflict with my work hours, I would be up for this.
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exploration like in startrek or lets say stargate is cool.
but what we all forget is, though these explorations are described as "coincidal" exploration of myths, its actually a written script of brilliand authors.
a random generated content engine can never ever meet these expectations.
randomly generated content will never meet those expectations.
.
This is why I said start with the champions nemesis system and redefine it as a first contact system. It has a mix of scripted and random missions. The scripted missions build to a climax, the random ones are filler. It is on a timer so you don't plow through it and get bored. It also let's the player personally design the most important part (the main actor) and change them out at appropriate times.
Would be perfect and complete!y removes the obstacle you mention. Because you are correct, purely random will never work.
oh hell no... this isn't super mario brothers... one of my biggest TRIBBLE with swtor, aside from the insane grinding requirements, is that they regularly turn their game into super mario brothers puzzles. TRIBBLE that
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Yeah that is boring lets ummm just make more things to blow up. Although due to recent changes my ships have been infected with an iconian virus making all consoles and boff powers as well as ground powers unrecognizable to the point have to hover over a skill every time to remember what exactly it does.
Klingon intelligence says there is a cure but it is elusive due to someone has changed the universe not allowing any warriors or federation scientists the ability to go scan for the plant that cannot be scanned. As well the star trek theme has to be changed erase strange new worls to explore strange new ways to kill npcs that just stand around waiting for you to shoot at them.
To expand upon my previous post, Exploration Zones instead of Exploration Patrols/Encounters. My suggestion (for the moment at least) is to present six Exploration Zones, three of which are space, the other three of which are ground.
The three Ground ones, to better make use of existing areas and maps, are Nukara Prime, Mol'rhian (New Romulus) and Kobali Prime. Rather, an extension of these ground maps. Nukara Prime can dive deeper into what the Tholians are up to, Mol'rhian can further dive into the Tholian story (and rogue Tal Shiar/Hirogen) and Kobali Prime can have us face the Vaadwaur and (for no other reason than just because) the Elachi. If possible, with Mol'rhian we could also go down to that Reman section to deal with stuff. Would be nice to explore that area.
Ground maps would include aiding scientists/civilians/researchers (maybe not on Nukara), scanning data samples, and attacking [insert species here], defending specific zones for a select time, scanning derelicts, solving puzzles, navigating mazes, observing more wildlife (maybe something more than just observing?), and (instead of dilithium mining) offer up a form of R&D mining.
The three Space ones would be situated in the Beta Andromeda, Iota Pavonis and Gamma Orionis sector blocks. Zeta Andromeda would be a large space map dealing with the Terran Empire. Iota Pavonis would deal with the Tal Shiar and Elachi, and Gamma Orionis would deal with the Borg, the Cooperative, and the Undine.
Space maps would include closing rifts, blowing up ships, scanning wreckage, and saving freighters. If you're feeling really generous you can also throw in some space dilithium mining too, where we'd approach giant asteroids and scan them like we currently do the Ferengi Mine.
The ground maps at least could/would be like the Dyson Battleground, just it wouldn't all revolve around shooting. There would be other stuff to do.
oh hell no... this isn't super mario brothers... one of my biggest TRIBBLE with swtor, aside from the insane grinding requirements, is that they regularly turn their game into super mario brothers puzzles. TRIBBLE that
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
I've made this proposal before, and there are foundry missions that do it- I've made a couple myself as proof of concept.
Basically what you do is YES, absolutely, you make missions. But what you do is you make missions that have branching story choices that add a lot of replayability. You add some pre-selected but mix and match generation choices. I don't mean randomized maps, but like, randomized goals.
So for example, let's take your default exploration mission, "explore deep space".
You take that, and that mission is your default. You get a shot of your ship cruising through deep space on a random space map, a captain's log shot of your captain on the bridge not finding anything- and then your science officer goes "There's a strange reading" and you drop down onto the bridge map.
You have options here- you can scan the reading (science), hail it because it might be a ship (tactical), try to boost the gain on the long range sensors (engineering), and these choices are mutually exclusive, with the result branching out into what happens.
When designing it, you make maybe ten possible choices for each of tac/eng/sci that use pre-existing maps but populated customly- NPS to interact with, hostile groups to fight, anomalies to scan. Build it like a TNG episode.
So maybe you pick the tactical option and hail the strange reading. The game randomizes that choice and picks "Ship in distress" and you get a cutscene of another ship in warp, or in a planetary orbit, or whatever- and their captain comes on screen and maybe they've had an accident, maybe they're under attack- whatever. They're not a species you recognize - random aliengen or pre-selected aliens are good here, and your officers are all like 'this could be a first contact situation'.
Then you have to make choices on what you'll do. All from the ground map as if you're actually commanding the ship. You can make tactical, science, engineering choices- but as the mission goes on, other departments 'unlock', like medical, diplomacy- use the doff schools maybe and gate dialogue options on advancement.
So for example you take the diplomacy option and try and talk down the enemies shooting the ship in distress, so you get mutual exclusatory dialogue options that can result in different end results. The way to do this is to chain link dialogue (hook separate prompts into each choice, so you pick one, it closes out of the original prompt and opens a new one).
So you talk them down, or you fail and they attack you. If you talk them down maybe they leave, or maybe they have a grievance for you to adjudicate.
And at each level there's more map randomization (from a pre-selected pool) and different options depending on which path you took.
This would be sort of like the old autogen, but more assisted since you guys would need to actually write the mission framework, and then slot in all the different options. But once it's done, it would be very easy for you to add additional options to that mission.
Whenever someone explores, they get that mission. Some of the bits are the same, but there's little ways to change it up. Change the space the ship is cruising through at the start, add a 'random stardate in TNG font' at the start, change the angle the camera is showing the ship from. Maybe do 'internal mini cutscenes' where the captain is in a different place at the mission start.
So sometimes he's on the bridge. Sometimes he starts with the sleep emote active on his bed and has to GET to the bridge. Sometimes he's in a science lab or ten forward or whatever.
You could also add dialogue prompts like you did for cloaked characters on some missions, where presence of certain ships/character factions, would give different dialogues. Maybe also get some code written to flag neutral NPCs as either allies or enemies on prompt, so you might have a mission turn hostile because the captain is a klingon.
You could also have in the sorting missions that share the same structure, but have their options limited and take place on a random station. DS9/K7/Sierra 39/probably not any of the klingon ones, they all suck.
And you have the same choices of different options which in turn give you different options for the mission. Maybe there's a borg attack and you have to get to your ship. Maybe there's dignitaries docking and you have to get your dress uniform on and go meet them.
Structurally a given map would have all of these options permitted, but which sequence occurs would be determined by the randomizer while the map is loading. This should let you cut down on server resources significantly, rather than needing to have a million and one maps.
The result at the end of this is that the assisted mission generation can create some really fun but repeatable exploration missions, interact with different aliens, fight or don't fight, take different paths, do different things. Explore like it's TNG again.
I've made this proposal before, and there are foundry missions that do it- I've made a couple myself as proof of concept.
Basically what you do is YES, absolutely, you make missions. But what you do is you make missions that have branching story choices that add a lot of replayability. You add some pre-selected but mix and match generation choices. I don't mean randomized maps, but like, randomized goals.
So for example, let's take your default exploration mission, "explore deep space".
You take that, and that mission is your default. You get a shot of your ship cruising through deep space on a random space map, a captain's log shot of your captain on the bridge not finding anything- and then your science officer goes "There's a strange reading" and you drop down onto the bridge map.
You have options here- you can scan the reading (science), hail it because it might be a ship (tactical), try to boost the gain on the long range sensors (engineering), and these choices are mutually exclusive, with the result branching out into what happens.
When designing it, you make maybe ten possible choices for each of tac/eng/sci that use pre-existing maps but populated customly- NPS to interact with, hostile groups to fight, anomalies to scan. Build it like a TNG episode.
So maybe you pick the tactical option and hail the strange reading. The game randomizes that choice and picks "Ship in distress" and you get a cutscene of another ship in warp, or in a planetary orbit, or whatever- and their captain comes on screen and maybe they've had an accident, maybe they're under attack- whatever. They're not a species you recognize - random aliengen or pre-selected aliens are good here, and your officers are all like 'this could be a first contact situation'.
Then you have to make choices on what you'll do. All from the ground map as if you're actually commanding the ship. You can make tactical, science, engineering choices- but as the mission goes on, other departments 'unlock', like medical, diplomacy- use the doff schools maybe and gate dialogue options on advancement.
So for example you take the diplomacy option and try and talk down the enemies shooting the ship in distress, so you get mutual exclusatory dialogue options that can result in different end results. The way to do this is to chain link dialogue (hook separate prompts into each choice, so you pick one, it closes out of the original prompt and opens a new one).
So you talk them down, or you fail and they attack you. If you talk them down maybe they leave, or maybe they have a grievance for you to adjudicate.
And at each level there's more map randomization (from a pre-selected pool) and different options depending on which path you took.
This would be sort of like the old autogen, but more assisted since you guys would need to actually write the mission framework, and then slot in all the different options. But once it's done, it would be very easy for you to add additional options to that mission.
Whenever someone explores, they get that mission. Some of the bits are the same, but there's little ways to change it up. Change the space the ship is cruising through at the start, add a 'random stardate in TNG font' at the start, change the angle the camera is showing the ship from. Maybe do 'internal mini cutscenes' where the captain is in a different place at the mission start.
So sometimes he's on the bridge. Sometimes he starts with the sleep emote active on his bed and has to GET to the bridge. Sometimes he's in a science lab or ten forward or whatever.
You could also add dialogue prompts like you did for cloaked characters on some missions, where presence of certain ships/character factions, would give different dialogues. Maybe also get some code written to flag neutral NPCs as either allies or enemies on prompt, so you might have a mission turn hostile because the captain is a klingon.
You could also have in the sorting missions that share the same structure, but have their options limited and take place on a random station. DS9/K7/Sierra 39/probably not any of the klingon ones, they all suck.
And you have the same choices of different options which in turn give you different options for the mission. Maybe there's a borg attack and you have to get to your ship. Maybe there's dignitaries docking and you have to get your dress uniform on and go meet them.
Structurally a given map would have all of these options permitted, but which sequence occurs would be determined by the randomizer while the map is loading. This should let you cut down on server resources significantly, rather than needing to have a million and one maps.
The result at the end of this is that the assisted mission generation can create some really fun but repeatable exploration missions, interact with different aliens, fight or don't fight, take different paths, do different things. Explore like it's TNG again.
Which foundry missions are those? Now that its up I'd love to play them. Plus maybe getting them here could get them in front of the devs so they can see the proof of concept.
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
I can't figure this one out myself. Everyone talks about exploration, but I have no idea what they want, because the old cluster missions were terrible and most of STO's non-combat gameplay is boring stuff like you describe. (The new FE gets non-combat right with the timing puzzles -- great stuff there.)
Exploration was just an excuse to tell a story in Star Trek. It was never the focus of the series. Maybe that's all people want, to start on some mundane assignment for the next FE before things actually get interesting five minutes in?
So, how do you propose we "explore" the universe, without having to make a million custom maps/missions?
What would actually be enjoyable to do, that doesn't involve fighting. Scanning rocks and trees is going to get old.
Comments
The concept was good,it just needet polishing and more mission types.
Dilithium mining in random locations. It never worked on Nukara due to the number of enemies but surely dilithium should be in a few more locations. the new omega mini game could be applied to random particle collection on the ground.
Random accolades in missions for reaching the highest points.
I think New Romulas Adventure zone and the romulan mission where you find new romulas captured that perfectly.
Not every type of exploration mission has to involve shooting and collecting. The last mission proved that with the maze, plateforms and electro-shock therapy.
Part of exploration can also be finding yourself crashed landed on a planet. Take a wooded area like the map from alpha and disable our map and instead only leave us with our tricorder to find out way off and have particles lead us like bread crumbs.
While genisis was pretty bad for making missions I think random landscapes without civilization might be doable with it. Just remove the buildings.
And if we randomely find a rich dilithium vein now and then or a very rare data sample every so often might be enough to encourage us to do so.
How about an exploration reputation system where we earn marks for exploring these worlds.
I think there is lots of potential without having to have a mission of run and gun.
Edit: When it comes to what traits can be awarded to an exploration rep why not add traits that can give bonuses when mining Dil Ore or even improve the odds of slightly better material drops when scanning.
* Create a set number of unique maps which are released once every three months.
* Reward marks and/or dilithium to encourage repeat play.
* Set the missions on the fringe of the new Galaxy Map. Make players travel to them.
* Given the perceived limitations of the game engine, there isn't a lot of flexibility in mission types, (meaning space/ground pew-pew or scanning). So, make it a mini-story within the map. Examples could include:
- Supply Line: Beam down to a planet where a previous exploration mission needs assistance (supplies or medical). Help solve a medical emergency that arises.
- Hunted: Beam down to a planet (like the KDF's "Alpha" mission) where it's a trap... You've walked into a Hirogen hunting ground.
- Rescue and Recovery: An expedition has gone missed. Locate the missing crewmembers (escape pods, main craft).
- First Contact: dialogue driven diplomatic mini-story.
Those are some examples. Give time and others can also further suggest exploration mission ideas.
this exact question is why I chose missions. being that I tried to cough up ideas, the only ones I had were rather involved... random maps and dialogue trees by the million that could be plugged an plopped together.. how to have the game do that w/o ending up with some of the absurd maps the old exploration clusters had? And similarly absurd dialogue? I just don't know...
some of the best ideas I see were put forth by gavinruneblade
I also think, as someone else posted, that allowing Foundry authors to aid you here would be a really brilliant idea, which would mean giving the foundry tools a major upgrade so that its not a gimped and frustrating piece of TRIBBLE anymore.
Nemesis is on timers and has a mix of elements. Could have foundry contests to write new scripted missions that get added over time.
Would be a good start so you don't need to begin from scratch.
Realistically there is no way for the development team to make enough missions, even short ones, to allow for enough exploration. Also... procedural generation makes things less interesting than making them by hand.
My character Tsin'xing
http://uwo.ogplanet.com/en/static/img/uwo/c/gg/wd/i_fc0902.jpg
Another thing to mention would be that the quests should change more, like having a set of assignments changing per hour for you to choose, and also you could get maps or notes to discover other things. It will fit perfectly in the game, and you wouldnt need to expand the game map or anything else.
http://uwo.ogplanet.com/en/static/uwo/v/image/guide/pop/pet02.jpg
Also, i think the game needs a trading system, in which you can buy goods from planets , transport them and sell them in other planets. Ferengi ships and federation cargo ships could be used for that. Its a feature i like from uncharted waters online, and it s pretty fun.
http://www.mmorpg-center.com/wp-content/gallery/uncharted-waters-online/uwo_trade.jpg
In short, you'd beam down to a large ground map and get to work on missions there. Different maps have different missions that crop up in rotation. Furthermore, Mol'rhian could be revisited and tweaked - I think the main reason that one is no longer popular is because it doesn't reward near half as much as it should considering the time invested.
Exploration zones could work (be them space or ground). A few select large maps, with multiple missions within them.
Essentially this serves the function of crowdsourcing the maps and mission design--and this has benefits not just from a time and labor perspective for Cryptic, but also benefits them by getting some new eyes on the storyline (or alternate storylines altogether) whereas if you are working with the same people on the same ideas all the time, it's that much harder to resist settling into patterns and preconceptions.
Now, to Cryptic's credit, I AM seeing true episodes (I do not count patrols) getting far more creative with each new one. But still, one of the quickest ways to give a true sense of exploration is to literally see the STO universe through different sets of eyes entirely.
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I would definitely want to see a major foundry revamp if this is the strategy to exploration.
Make a giant temple on some remote barren world with a mix of puzzles we need to do to advance.. maybe a jumping challenge... I love them.
Legends of the Hidden Temple???
(Anybody else remember that show?)
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Still, it would help immeasurably.
but what we all forget is, though these explorations are described as "coincidal" exploration of myths, its actually a written script of brilliand authors.
a random generated content engine can never ever meet these expectations.
thats why I think, the way of adding " bare space" into the game and let foundry authors place their cool stuff there is the
ONLY
way this is doable, so real exploration feeling like in startrek or scifi in general is met at all.
so i think foundry and exploration + free uncharted space are going best.
i hope with the sector revamp they will add in "blank" places into the map at some border places and let foundry authors place their missions there. this would be the best way.
randomly generated content will never meet those expectations.
also for this purpose the descriptions for a foundry should be more clear. i recently was flying by some in dafera sector and while i liked the idea behind it, i was hesitant cause i couldnt read a short description before entering.
also those maps should be categorized:
space only
sspace and ground
ground only.
and id encourage cryptic and authors to make "space exploration" like missions. i generally like space more, cause i like flying my ship more that running around with my captain. so - im not speaking of kill missions in space, but exploration and story missions, but more while onboard a ship, dialogues and all that, but while sitting on my ship.
This is the biggie. It needs to be a mix of Dev and foundry. Neither can do it justice alone.
Managed to locate the thread I was talking about, Taco!
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=564581&highlight=Exploration
There are some extremely good ideas in this thread Taco, I'm not sure how much of them would be possible to work in STO and the engine, etc. - however I'm pretty sure there are quite a few that could.
I highly recommend someone in charge of developing such content to give this thread a read, the OP and some other players obviously spent a lot of time and went above and beyond in detailed ideas, suggestions and possibilites for exploration content. I'm sure someone would be able to draw much inspiration from there.
As long as it did not conflict with my work hours, I would be up for this.
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This is why I said start with the champions nemesis system and redefine it as a first contact system. It has a mix of scripted and random missions. The scripted missions build to a climax, the random ones are filler. It is on a timer so you don't plow through it and get bored. It also let's the player personally design the most important part (the main actor) and change them out at appropriate times.
Would be perfect and complete!y removes the obstacle you mention. Because you are correct, purely random will never work.
oh hell no... this isn't super mario brothers... one of my biggest TRIBBLE with swtor, aside from the insane grinding requirements, is that they regularly turn their game into super mario brothers puzzles. TRIBBLE that
Yeah that is boring lets ummm just make more things to blow up. Although due to recent changes my ships have been infected with an iconian virus making all consoles and boff powers as well as ground powers unrecognizable to the point have to hover over a skill every time to remember what exactly it does.
Klingon intelligence says there is a cure but it is elusive due to someone has changed the universe not allowing any warriors or federation scientists the ability to go scan for the plant that cannot be scanned. As well the star trek theme has to be changed erase strange new worls to explore strange new ways to kill npcs that just stand around waiting for you to shoot at them.
To expand upon my previous post, Exploration Zones instead of Exploration Patrols/Encounters. My suggestion (for the moment at least) is to present six Exploration Zones, three of which are space, the other three of which are ground.
The three Ground ones, to better make use of existing areas and maps, are Nukara Prime, Mol'rhian (New Romulus) and Kobali Prime. Rather, an extension of these ground maps. Nukara Prime can dive deeper into what the Tholians are up to, Mol'rhian can further dive into the Tholian story (and rogue Tal Shiar/Hirogen) and Kobali Prime can have us face the Vaadwaur and (for no other reason than just because) the Elachi. If possible, with Mol'rhian we could also go down to that Reman section to deal with stuff. Would be nice to explore that area.
Ground maps would include aiding scientists/civilians/researchers (maybe not on Nukara), scanning data samples, and attacking [insert species here], defending specific zones for a select time, scanning derelicts, solving puzzles, navigating mazes, observing more wildlife (maybe something more than just observing?), and (instead of dilithium mining) offer up a form of R&D mining.
The three Space ones would be situated in the Beta Andromeda, Iota Pavonis and Gamma Orionis sector blocks. Zeta Andromeda would be a large space map dealing with the Terran Empire. Iota Pavonis would deal with the Tal Shiar and Elachi, and Gamma Orionis would deal with the Borg, the Cooperative, and the Undine.
Space maps would include closing rifts, blowing up ships, scanning wreckage, and saving freighters. If you're feeling really generous you can also throw in some space dilithium mining too, where we'd approach giant asteroids and scan them like we currently do the Ferengi Mine.
The ground maps at least could/would be like the Dyson Battleground, just it wouldn't all revolve around shooting. There would be other stuff to do.
well... you don't do it then.
I've made this proposal before, and there are foundry missions that do it- I've made a couple myself as proof of concept.
Basically what you do is YES, absolutely, you make missions. But what you do is you make missions that have branching story choices that add a lot of replayability. You add some pre-selected but mix and match generation choices. I don't mean randomized maps, but like, randomized goals.
So for example, let's take your default exploration mission, "explore deep space".
You take that, and that mission is your default. You get a shot of your ship cruising through deep space on a random space map, a captain's log shot of your captain on the bridge not finding anything- and then your science officer goes "There's a strange reading" and you drop down onto the bridge map.
You have options here- you can scan the reading (science), hail it because it might be a ship (tactical), try to boost the gain on the long range sensors (engineering), and these choices are mutually exclusive, with the result branching out into what happens.
When designing it, you make maybe ten possible choices for each of tac/eng/sci that use pre-existing maps but populated customly- NPS to interact with, hostile groups to fight, anomalies to scan. Build it like a TNG episode.
So maybe you pick the tactical option and hail the strange reading. The game randomizes that choice and picks "Ship in distress" and you get a cutscene of another ship in warp, or in a planetary orbit, or whatever- and their captain comes on screen and maybe they've had an accident, maybe they're under attack- whatever. They're not a species you recognize - random aliengen or pre-selected aliens are good here, and your officers are all like 'this could be a first contact situation'.
Then you have to make choices on what you'll do. All from the ground map as if you're actually commanding the ship. You can make tactical, science, engineering choices- but as the mission goes on, other departments 'unlock', like medical, diplomacy- use the doff schools maybe and gate dialogue options on advancement.
So for example you take the diplomacy option and try and talk down the enemies shooting the ship in distress, so you get mutual exclusatory dialogue options that can result in different end results. The way to do this is to chain link dialogue (hook separate prompts into each choice, so you pick one, it closes out of the original prompt and opens a new one).
So you talk them down, or you fail and they attack you. If you talk them down maybe they leave, or maybe they have a grievance for you to adjudicate.
And at each level there's more map randomization (from a pre-selected pool) and different options depending on which path you took.
This would be sort of like the old autogen, but more assisted since you guys would need to actually write the mission framework, and then slot in all the different options. But once it's done, it would be very easy for you to add additional options to that mission.
Whenever someone explores, they get that mission. Some of the bits are the same, but there's little ways to change it up. Change the space the ship is cruising through at the start, add a 'random stardate in TNG font' at the start, change the angle the camera is showing the ship from. Maybe do 'internal mini cutscenes' where the captain is in a different place at the mission start.
So sometimes he's on the bridge. Sometimes he starts with the sleep emote active on his bed and has to GET to the bridge. Sometimes he's in a science lab or ten forward or whatever.
You could also add dialogue prompts like you did for cloaked characters on some missions, where presence of certain ships/character factions, would give different dialogues. Maybe also get some code written to flag neutral NPCs as either allies or enemies on prompt, so you might have a mission turn hostile because the captain is a klingon.
You could also have in the sorting missions that share the same structure, but have their options limited and take place on a random station. DS9/K7/Sierra 39/probably not any of the klingon ones, they all suck.
And you have the same choices of different options which in turn give you different options for the mission. Maybe there's a borg attack and you have to get to your ship. Maybe there's dignitaries docking and you have to get your dress uniform on and go meet them.
Structurally a given map would have all of these options permitted, but which sequence occurs would be determined by the randomizer while the map is loading. This should let you cut down on server resources significantly, rather than needing to have a million and one maps.
The result at the end of this is that the assisted mission generation can create some really fun but repeatable exploration missions, interact with different aliens, fight or don't fight, take different paths, do different things. Explore like it's TNG again.
Which foundry missions are those? Now that its up I'd love to play them. Plus maybe getting them here could get them in front of the devs so they can see the proof of concept.
I can't figure this one out myself. Everyone talks about exploration, but I have no idea what they want, because the old cluster missions were terrible and most of STO's non-combat gameplay is boring stuff like you describe. (The new FE gets non-combat right with the timing puzzles -- great stuff there.)
Exploration was just an excuse to tell a story in Star Trek. It was never the focus of the series. Maybe that's all people want, to start on some mundane assignment for the next FE before things actually get interesting five minutes in?
My character Tsin'xing
The idea is interesting but not sure it is a good fit for ST.