So you include in your post that you want to stick to certain things, and while you appreciate that some things might be better overall for some folks to fly with; you're really looking to get the most out of what you enjoy without being deadweight to the team - cause you know you're choosing to join a team so it is no longer just about you.
So basically folks have fragile egos and are extremely selfish...?
Cause to me it's basically a case of going into it with some humility in the first place, since you're asking for help...so how can somebody demean you by saying you don't know something when you've gone into it asking for the help because you don't know something?
It's just more and more making excuses. Cause folks do ask for help with stuff and do get help...this can be an extremely helpful community - it can be a very toxic community as folks make excuses.
Well... I'm not asking for help. I don't have any problems carrying my weight in advanced queues. I'm speaking in generalities for all players. One shouldn't have to completely revamp their character, ship, gear, and skills in order to play STFs. That's a problem. One that some of you can't really seem to grasp. And most people in PUGs are notoriously stubborn and simply will not listen to any kind of suggestions or directions, and would rather fail than do so.
Because now we're back to the DPS = king issue. Why bother having sci ships and cruisers and sci and engineer captains when they are all going to be sub-optimal in advanced and elite queues? This is wrong. There was nothing wrong with the way STFs worked prior to DR. If they wanted to make the new advanced the old elite and create a new, even more difficult elite, hey, that's fine. But there was no good reason to make even normal more difficult, lower rewards across the board, and remove elite marks from normal, leaving many no choice but to attempt advanced, whether they are capable or not. These are the issues we face, these are the issues that Cryptic has thrust upon us and clearly has no intention of doing anything but making it even worse. They are NOT listening. They have a monetization plan that trumps all else, and I guarantee not a single thing promised by Mr. Gray will ever materialize. This is new order of STO, and I really want no part of it. This is not the game I want to play anymore.
I'll pop in for special events and giveaways, but the days of me spending hours on end doing fun stuff is over, because as far as I'm concerned there is nothing fun left to do. Grind != fun.
Queues will remain mostly empty because unless you do them with your own fleet it's a waste of 2 minutes of your time for zero rewards an instant fail and a long cooldown. Pugs have no clue and in some cases intentionally fail them. No one wants to waste the time on an unwinnable pug queue . the old ones.. might take a while to complete one with pugs but usually it WAS doable.... the new Advanced and elite queues are a waste of time and as they are now... public queues will continue to remain mostly empty. This needs to be either fixed or abandoned.. or people will just not use public queues and they will become dead empty.
Do you know why I don't grind Argala? Because i need mats to craft or sell on the exchange so I can upgrade my ship's gear to 14.
Now, you are making the only queue i utilize for consistent mats harder, thus making it likely I get frustrated and not upgrade?
Why would you do that? I hate ground, so I do not do Bug Hunt unless absolutely necessary.
If CCA becomes difficult to complete, I won't be able to upgrade, and I'll go back to playing something else. I have games left over from the last steam sale that I haven't played. I might just start playing them instead.
Well... I'm not asking for help. I don't have any problems carrying my weight in advanced queues. I'm speaking in generalities for all players. One shouldn't have to completely revamp their character, ship, gear, and skills in order to play STFs. That's a problem. One that some of you can't really seem to grasp. And most people in PUGs are notoriously stubborn and simply will not listen to any kind of suggestions or directions, and would rather fail than do so.
Not to mention that I have to wonder how helpful some of the eliet DPSers would be advice wise, as near as I can tell there is probably a major disconnect between what they think the general player base has and what they actually have.
I don't think the general player is going to have access to a fleet, and if they do it's probably nowhere near maxed out. it's also doubtful that they would even know what a DPS parser is due to the fact that nothing in game even hints at the even the existence of such a thing. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them didn't know about any of the channels since the game doesn't mention anything about them.
If people spent half the time trying to do better than they do rather than making excuses and blaming everybody but themselves, I doubt even Elite queues would have failure issues.
Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Contenthttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122
- This is where you post your feedback on the various Feature Episodes, Events (STFs, Fleet Actions, etc.), and PvE Content (Adventure Zones, etc.) in Star Trek Online.
Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanicshttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219
- This is where you can share builds, and post your feedback on powers and game mechanics (including Bridge Officers) in Star Trek Online.
Not to mention that I have to wonder how helpful some of the eliet DPSers would be advice wise, as near as I can tell there is probably a major disconnect between what they think the general player base has and what they actually have.
There was a time I would dump on the DPS crowd as well, but from my vantage point they are one of the more active groups that holding what's left of the community together. And given Cryptics predilection to make DPS more of a central aspect to the game, it might behoove you to spend some time reconsidering their value. If you need help ask - theres a number of forum threads here and on Reddit where you can get build help.
I did and they helped. And right now DPS-10K is the only channel that's cranking out private games at almost all hours. And it only takes common gear and a little skill to get in the room.
I don't think the general player is going to have access to a fleet, and if they do it's probably nowhere near maxed out. it's also doubtful that they would even know what a DPS parser is due to the fact that nothing in game even hints at the even the existence of such a thing. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them didn't know about any of the channels since the game doesn't mention anything about them.
Education is STO is non existent. If it doesn't generate money, Cryptic has no desire to hand hold you or anyone else through the process of playing their game. Even the EP is on record as not knowing how some things work. Go figure.
So... you can scream into the vacuum - or - you can do a little research, ask a few questions and get a handle on how to play to maximize what you have so that the grind is less annoying.
If that's the case looks like nothings changed here. Oh well I'm in WoD and GW2 just announced their expansion so I guess Cryptic doesn't want my money since they can't seem to make their game more Trek like.
Face it, roles are dead, there is nothing a tank can do that cannot be solved with enough dps, it just doesn't make sense to have a tank when you can have one guy killing enemies fast enough so they are don't even scratch your shields, why heal when you can kill? dead enemies don't hurt you, so there is no need for healing.
to a degree i agree with you, but there is a role for sci and eng, plenty of dps'rs are made of glass.
not only that you can further buff the dps'rs power and debuff the resistance values. a sci or an cruiser cant solo, but they can most defo help in a team.
for example a scimitar with thalaron pulse, i Eps conduit him, extend shields and tac team then grav well in front. untold damage right there, or even just a dread with scatter volley.
Outside of two DOFFs previously bought on the Exchange, no Reputation Gear, no Fleet Gear, no Lobi Gear, no Lock Box Gear, no R&D Gear...a T5 Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. Yes, there were two R&D Traits...but that's just time. Yes, 23 Intel/15 Pilot...but that's just time. Yes, Reputation Traits...but that's just solo missions, Daily Bonus Marks, and time. The gear is just mission gear and drops. 3pc Solanae, Breen Core, Breen Cluster, Vaad Cluster, 6x Phasers from the DQ story, 3 crappy Neuts, 3 crappy Partigens, and 3 crappy Phaser Relays. Odds are pretty good that not only would somebody be in a better ship would they would have acquired better gear.
There are folks that have done lists of the free gear out there. There is the Episode Replay list over on STOwiki with what gear one can get from that. There are things folks can put together so they've got something going on as they tackle Advanced.
Just because the top 5% of the DPS League Table folks out there are doing 38k+ DPS doesn't mean that Advanced requires 38k+ DPS from folks. That's the top 5% of the folks uploading parses. It ain't the common folk like me doing that...lol.
The run before that one...yep, was in my Benthan - had all sorts of R&D Gear, Lock Box Gear, Lobi Gear, Rep Gear, Fleet Gear, had my Rom SRO BOFFs, etc, etc, etc - no, not a G14 boat by any means - just a few G14 consoles, none of the space set beyond VR12, and then just a hodgepodge of the rest because I'm kind of lazy.
It failed 236 seconds in on the first Transformer...cause I'm not some top 5% guy...not top 10%. I couldn't carry it.
Player Me) 20,423.3 DPS, 74.9% Hits In/62.2% Damage In, 499,512 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player 3,421.1 DPS, 0.2% Hits In/0.2% Damage In, 0 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player C) 3,065.4 DPS, 15.9% Hits In/24.1% Damage In, 133,344 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player D) 2,538.1 DPS, 8.2% Hits In/12.9% Damage In, 59,088 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player E) 1,725.3 DPS, 0.6% Hits In/0.6% Damage In, 0 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
And according to some folks in this thread and other threads, we're supposed to feel sorry for those players...and it's all Cryptic's fault? That's a steaming pile of Targ TRIBBLE...
The players of STO are nothing but a joke to the employees of PW and Crytpic. They don't care, they just laugh at "the addicts who ***** about the game but keep playing it."
"Nothing is broken and the game is the greatest game ever made..... And you keep playing it so we know that to be true."
What happened to those unique forum ranks I paid for?
If people spent half the time trying to do better than they do rather than making excuses and blaming everybody but themselves, I doubt even Elite queues would have failure issues.
Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Contenthttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122
- This is where you post your feedback on the various Feature Episodes, Events (STFs, Fleet Actions, etc.), and PvE Content (Adventure Zones, etc.) in Star Trek Online.
Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanicshttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219
- This is where you can share builds, and post your feedback on powers and game mechanics (including Bridge Officers) in Star Trek Online.
There was a time I would dump on the DPS crowd as well, but from my vantage point they are one of the more active groups that holding what's left of the community together.
They're a hardcore group, nothing successful ever comes from pandering to a hardcore group, Case in point its usually the same group of elite championing Cyrptic's changes to the Stfs in a seas of complaints about them being too hard to give a TRIBBLE about. So no I don't think they represent the community outside of being the community's new scapegoat.
And given Cryptics predilection to make DPS more of a central aspect to the game, it might behoove you to spend some time reconsidering their value.
They tried to introduce stuff that wasn't a DPS race, people complained they couldn't get by just doing massive DPS.
If you need help ask - theres a number of forum threads here and on Reddit where you can get build help.
Have a forum thats way more help that the game forums, doesn't use condescending words like noob, scrub, or lear to play. I also bother to read the stuff in the mission and watch the intro cutscene at least once, which is why during the Mirror Invasion event I knew what to do while the DPSers seemed to be fumbling around in the dark.
I did and they helped. And right now DPS-10K is the only channel that's cranking out private games at almost all hours. And it only takes common gear and a little skill to get in the room.
Again this assumes most players are aware of the channels and what to spend time waiting for them to pop up, if this was the case I doubt wee would have ques.
Education is STO is non existent. If it doesn't generate money, Cryptic has no desire to hand hold you or anyone else through the process of playing their game. Even the EP is on record as not knowing how some things work. Go figure.
So... you can scream into the vacuum - or - you can do a little research, ask a few questions and get a handle on how to play to maximize what you have so that the grind is less annoying.
'cause at this point, all you have is the grind.
Which is the problem and why the hardcore gamer base is usually a minority, people aren't going to invest that much time in playing a video game and all the complaining and calling people noobs in the world will never change this.
Lets face it, the VAST majority of the players in STO never come near the forums. It's highly likely they ever see the discussions here.
A large proportion of the players are not in fleets.
So with those two points in mind there's probably a huge proportion of players who have:
a) no knowledge of DPS or how to measure it.
b) no interest in DPS other than a basic requirement to be effective based on how they want to enjoy the game.
Therefore we can write as many guides as we want on here, we can bemoan the players with low DPS as much as we like. But we are never going to change the fact that there will always be a lot of players with pretty low DPS numbers.
And those players are still going to be trying out all of the material in the game so they are going to mingle with those of us who by their standards are well versed in the workings of the game and have a pretty good idea of what DPS is required when.
So unless the whole game has some pretty drastic changes you're always going to get low DPS'ers in pugs.
Now many of us can join private queues if we so desire, and have access to fleet-mates, teamspeak and so on so we can go through queues with our eyes closed. Then you have the really high DPS'ers who can literally just look at a queue and kill everything in seconds.
Problem is that the devs seem to be basing what they do on what that top 1% of the players do. And that is what causes the biggest issues we have in game at the moment. If everything is being designed or modified with the top 1% in mind then clearly all the others players (i.e. the vast majority) are going to have a pretty rough time.
That's exactly what has happened with DR:
1) The top 1% were completing things too fast - increase difficulty (the only way they know how = higher HPs).
2) The top 1% were getting too many rewards because they were completing things too fast - lower rewards.
I would love to see every player show and interest in being able to do at least 8K DPS and be able to pull their weight in a fight, truth is that's never going to happen.
Does Cryptic have an endgame vision of where things should be and where things are going? And what we're seeing now is just steps leading up to that vision?
Does Cryptic have an endgame vision of where things should be and where things are going? And what we're seeing now is just steps leading up to that vision?
Or are they just shooting from the hip?
It often feels like they set their long term goals too far out, so as they work toward something, it is no longer relevant by the time they get there. As mentioned in that one thread, they're trying to look at it as a closed system. Just doesn't work that way, imho. It gives the appearance, to me, that they're always chasing their tail and getting nowhere.
Yeah , about those "invites" ... -- can that spam be stopped ?
There's an actual invite? I thought the channel just appeared in the list of available channels? My privacy settings are set so that I don't have much interaction with folks in the game outside of the Team, Fleet, or subscribed channels. If there is some spam going on there, could bring it up in that DPS thread that...er...fudge, was it porchsong did? The one they stickied?
It often feels like they set their long term goals too far out, so as they work toward something, it is no longer relevant by the time they get there. As mentioned in that one thread, they're trying to look at it as a closed system. Just doesn't work that way, imho. It gives the appearance, to me, that they're always chasing their tail and getting nowhere.
Probably doesn't help that it seems that when ever there is behind the scenes reshuffling suddenly things get changed around majorly.
Much like how reputations were the endgame progression up until the EP change over than rep traits were reworked and specializations became the new thing for endgame progression.
There are people doing ridiculous things with torpedo boats.
It baffles me that people still expect Advanced level rewards for Normal level ship building. Who is telling you that you have to play advanced? I have silly amounts of fun playing with odd, low DPS builds, and I have higher DPS builds. Guess which ones I take into Advanced content (you know, the harder stuff)?
And there are people doing high DPS with rainbow builds. If you want to bring something kooky into Advanced content, how bout make it able to do the content first? Just because you aren't getting results doesn't mean it's impossible. I can see average to above-average builds and pilots not liking more difficulty, but whining because you cant slap together any old thing, not work on getting it to an average level, and faceroll content is moronic.
I'm still surprised people can't grasp the concept of difficulty levels.
But there is a circular logic to it. The idea that in order to have gear on the order of the challenge, an advanced or elite queue, that one needs to actually play said advanced or elite queue.
Previously, you could work the Borg STFs on normal, and get the MKXI MACO/Borg/Omega sets. I made sure to purchase the MACO ground set at MkXI BEFORE I ever went into a ground STF because I read on these here forums, that you should have the three piece set bonus for the integral remodulator. As a matter of fact, since it was post Rep system, I got the MkX set first by running Borg red alerts before I got the MkXI. That is no longer an option. That MkXI set required no BNP. Now we can only get the MkXII and that does require the processors.
No one who is paying attention wants to drag down their teams, nor do they want to get yelled at by the guys who know what they're doing for TRIBBLE up.
So people who haven't done these things already and don't know anyone who has, are going to end up going into an Advanced or above queue without a clue or the gear.
I have been PM'ed after the fact about not doing enough DPS. Things like that can completely sour someone on running these things is all. Telling the whole story shows something additional. Yes the guy did do some crazy amount of DPS soloing a side of Khitomer by himself. But other than that...he was a crappy player. No teamwork, no instruction either. I'm in the chat asking for instruction trying to get things coordinated, and nothing.
I have two problems with the difficulty. 1st the old Elite and the New Advanced weren't equal. 2nd, the enemy HP at the start of DR was insane. It's better now, but I have a more basic beef with it. I don't see why a Tholian Orb Weaver should have 346k HP, when my Galaxy Dread only has 76K. It feels silly. Someone suggested giving them less HP and more resist in the same way we players do.
More generally though the current Queue system is not friendly and it shows by the fact that PUG'ing is on life support right now.
I definitely support removing the fail timer and fail Cooldown lockout. They seriously discourage trial, error, and learning.
Ill tell you this. The day delta rising came out me and some fleeties tried ISA.....and sucked miserably after trying to do it the way de used to do elites. After talking and trying things out we started beating it and never looked back.....that's right...we beat it with unupgraded builds and tier 5 unupgraded ships....it just took determination and a bit of teamwork. The issues with pugging is the lack of communication and the need for people to be kirks. the key to advanced isn't gear and rep. Its the ability of the team to communicate and work together. How do you think many ppl are breaking 10k? or why the dps channels and the elite STF channels are busy? Its because it easier to get a group that communicates in those channels. If cryptic should do anything its to make interteam communication more effective.
I would appreciate if you would elaborate on that point.
Because there is a disconnect on damage and damage done as a team.
I watched this Youtube video about a 10K or 20K assault cruiser refit, a guy had a Regent Disruptor Beam Boat with crazy DPS in ISE. People in the comments were pointing out that his damage was getting boosted by his teams debuffs they three or four APBs on target at all times.
Do these big 38K+ DPS builds actually do that kind of damage solo, or is it as a result of the team.
Where do skills fall in? For instance my main has very little invested in Energy Weapons Specialization because I didn't know that it elevated crit and that crit was the mark of true damage when I was allocating points.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
But there is a circular logic to it. The idea that in order to have gear on the order of the challenge, an advanced or elite queue, that one needs to actually play said advanced or elite queue.
That may be arguably true for Ground, but it is utterly wrong for Space.
No BNP gear is necessary to do good DPS. In fact, practically no builds that do +30k will have any gear that need BNPs. The Space equipment is not great.
Ground, the frequency remodulator is nice, although nowadays most people just bring the shotgun or sniper rifle and skip remodulating entirely.
Because there is a disconnect on damage and damage done as a team.
I watched this Youtube video about a 10K or 20K assault cruiser refit, a guy had a Regent Disruptor Beam Boat with crazy DPS in ISE. People in the comments were pointing out that his damage was getting boosted by his teams debuffs they three or four APBs on target at all times.
Do these big 38K+ DPS builds actually do that kind of damage solo, or is it as a result of the team.
It's about damage you do while in a team. That's when your teammates care about your DPS.
Solo damage is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you do 100k solo if you only do 1k in a team because your piloting actually sucks and you can never reach targets before the rest of the team kills them.
Where do skills fall in? For instance my main has very little invested in Energy Weapons Specialization because I didn't know that it elevated crit and that crit was the mark of true damage when I was allocating points.
Uh, the description of Starship Energy Weapon Specialization is "This skill improves your Starship's Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Severity with Energy Weapons such as beams, cannons and turrets."
This is not one of the many cases where STO fails to provide sufficient information on a mechanic.
But there is a circular logic to it. The idea that in order to have gear on the order of the challenge, an advanced or elite queue, that one needs to actually play said advanced or elite queue.
You only need to do Advanced queues for two of the reps if you need the stuff now.
Undine, Nukara, Romulan, Dyson- these items can all be acquired without Advanced queue content, and without waiting.
So, people complaining that they have to do Advanced queues for reputation items is flatly wrong. You don't need to, and even if you did, it's only for 2/6 reputations.
Because there is a disconnect on damage and damage done as a team.
I watched this Youtube video about a 10K or 20K assault cruiser refit, a guy had a Regent Disruptor Beam Boat with crazy DPS in ISE. People in the comments were pointing out that his damage was getting boosted by his teams debuffs they three or four APBs on target at all times.
Do these big 38K+ DPS builds actually do that kind of damage solo, or is it as a result of the team.
It's about damage you do while in a team. That's when your teammates care about your DPS.
Solo damage is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you do 100k solo if you only do 1k in a team because your piloting actually sucks and you can never reach targets before the rest of the team kills them.
Say we've got Maxwell that fires away doing 22325.58 DPS against the Gateway because he's only got his Enhanced Armor Penetration going and nobody's dropped any debuffs on the target.
I come along and manage a Disruptor proc for him.
Maxwell's doing 23709.67 DPS now. 1384.09 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out a Sensor Scan III for him.
Maxwell's doing 31984.29 DPS now. 9658.71 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out an Attack Pattern Beta II for him.
Maxwell's doing 35927.64 DPS now. 13602.06 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out an Ionic Turbulence I for him.
Maxwell's doing 38077.03 DPS now. 15751.45 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out Intelligence Fleet II for him.
Maxwell's doing 39255.74 DPS now. 16930.16 more DPS than without me.
He's doing 175.83% the damage he was before...without having changed a thing he was doing.
Course, that's only going to be against that particular target - can only drop out so many debuffs so often - those Hull Damage Resistance debuffs aren't going to do a thing about damage vs. Shields. Course, there are ways to reduce Shield Damage Reduction as well - also ways to increase Shield Penetration so more faces that debuffed Hull Damage Resistance. So one person alone isn't going to max-out Maxwell.
Meanwhile, all this stuff going on around him...Maxwell hasn't changed a thing.
So it's a case of getting to a certain point on your own...then finding groups where everybody helps each other along more than you'd find in your average public queue.
Cause it's not just going to be debuff help, there's also going to be buff help.
So hopefully Maxwell will notice what's going on around him...and start helping those around him too. Cause up to the point folks start tripping over each other and have to spread out or you just have to bring non-DPS folks along for the ride, his helping folks will also help him.
A group working together can do more than a group not working together.
Which is one of the things why it can so infuriating when folks show up in apple carts and chase butterflies...not only are they hurting the group, but they're hurting themselves.
That may be arguably true for Ground, but it is utterly wrong for Space.
No BNP gear is necessary to do good DPS. In fact, practically no builds that do +30k will have any gear that need BNPs. The Space equipment is not great.
Ground, the frequency remodulator is nice, although nowadays most people just bring the shotgun or sniper rifle and skip remodulating entirely.
I was using an example from the past because it's easily understood.
It's about damage you do while in a team. That's when your teammates care about your DPS.
Solo damage is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you do 100k solo if you only do 1k in a team because your piloting actually sucks and you can never reach targets before the rest of the team kills them.
That's not precisely what I was asking.
I was asking does each individual person doing more damage in a team format because they're benefiting from stacking buffs and debuffs of their team collectively skew DPS perceptions higher, or is it just that these people do monstrous DPS individually period.
Uh, the description of Starship Energy Weapon Specialization is "This skill improves your Starship's Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Severity with Energy Weapons such as beams, cannons and turrets."
This is not one of the many cases where STO fails to provide sufficient information on a mechanic.
Yes that's the description, mind you I never paid attention to it until I had spent what would've gone into it on something else. Now is that information incorrect or is it unimportant.
Because when I was leveling I had no clue that critical damage was such a huge portion of anyone's damage output.
You only need to do Advanced queues for two of the reps if you need the stuff now.
Undine, Nukara, Romulan, Dyson- these items can all be acquired without Advanced queue content, and without waiting.
So, people complaining that they have to do Advanced queues for reputation items is flatly wrong. You don't need to, and even if you did, it's only for 2/6 reputations.
In other words, you're wrong.
You're not telling me anything. I'm geared. I'm fully aware that you can beat an STF with non-rep gear. I said gear on the order of the challenge, not gear of necessity.
So you're saying that there's nothing to the idea that it's illogical to run a queue to gain gear for the purpose of running that same queue? (or set of queues)
I mean in that case you're pointing out a larger problem.
Namely that for those in the know all of the Reputation Gear is superfluous.
My natural thinking would be you would gain from one mission gear that would be beneficial in the next mission, not something that would be beneficial to the mission I just beat.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
You're not telling me anything. I'm geared. I'm fully aware that you can beat an STF with non-rep gear. I said gear on the order of the challenge, not gear of necessity.
So you're saying that there's nothing to the idea that it's illogical to run a queue to gain gear for the purpose of running that same queue? (or set of queues)
I mean in that case you're pointing out a larger problem.
Namely that for those in the know all of the Reputation Gear is superfluous.
My natural thinking would be you would gain from one mission gear that would be beneficial in the next mission, not something that would be beneficial to the mission I just beat.
I'm not sinn74, so I can't answer for what he's saying...but as far as what's being said:
STO is not a progression game. You do not run Dungeon A to get gear to run Dungeon B to get gear to run Dungeon C to get gear to run Raid X...etc, etc, etc. It's a treadmill game. You run Dungeon A to get gear to run Dungeon A faster to get gear to run Dungeon A faster or maybe to run Dungeon B faster to get gear to run Dungeon A faster...er...basically the gear just lets you run the treadmill faster. Sometimes it doesn't even do that, cause the gear you can acquire from it is worse than what you could acquire elsewhere easier. Sometimes it's just about outfit choices while running on that treadmill.
So it's beneficial in the sense that you might run the treadmill faster or have cool FX on your ship as you run that treadmill...but uh...well, none of all this powercreep in STO actually leads anywhere. It's just running the treadmill faster and faster and faster...until maybe you go for a drink, come back, and hop on another machine - another treadmill...not a harder treadmill, just a different one.
It's one of those things, where you look at what the DPS records being set these days compared to before S7 and think about that ISA only requires perhaps 2-3k more DPS than ISE did. It's where some may have used the term "crutches" in relation to all of the powercreep - allowing folks to do stuff some took for granted...while also resulting in folks parsing at Warp Factor Ludicrous.
Folks, lemme kinda explain the rules around here because this continuously happens a lot.
The general discussion area is NOT a place to use "just because it'll get viewed most". It's a place where if nothing else fits, it goes here. also, this would be considered a duplicate thread which is not allowed on the forums (it's considered spam).
If there is a thread about something you're already bringing up, then USE that thread. Making another one is just annoying as sooner or later we'll merge them together, delete them entirely, or close them like this one is having done to it.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
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Well... I'm not asking for help. I don't have any problems carrying my weight in advanced queues. I'm speaking in generalities for all players. One shouldn't have to completely revamp their character, ship, gear, and skills in order to play STFs. That's a problem. One that some of you can't really seem to grasp. And most people in PUGs are notoriously stubborn and simply will not listen to any kind of suggestions or directions, and would rather fail than do so.
Because now we're back to the DPS = king issue. Why bother having sci ships and cruisers and sci and engineer captains when they are all going to be sub-optimal in advanced and elite queues? This is wrong. There was nothing wrong with the way STFs worked prior to DR. If they wanted to make the new advanced the old elite and create a new, even more difficult elite, hey, that's fine. But there was no good reason to make even normal more difficult, lower rewards across the board, and remove elite marks from normal, leaving many no choice but to attempt advanced, whether they are capable or not. These are the issues we face, these are the issues that Cryptic has thrust upon us and clearly has no intention of doing anything but making it even worse. They are NOT listening. They have a monetization plan that trumps all else, and I guarantee not a single thing promised by Mr. Gray will ever materialize. This is new order of STO, and I really want no part of it. This is not the game I want to play anymore.
I'll pop in for special events and giveaways, but the days of me spending hours on end doing fun stuff is over, because as far as I'm concerned there is nothing fun left to do. Grind != fun.
Do you know why I don't grind Argala? Because i need mats to craft or sell on the exchange so I can upgrade my ship's gear to 14.
Now, you are making the only queue i utilize for consistent mats harder, thus making it likely I get frustrated and not upgrade?
Why would you do that? I hate ground, so I do not do Bug Hunt unless absolutely necessary.
If CCA becomes difficult to complete, I won't be able to upgrade, and I'll go back to playing something else. I have games left over from the last steam sale that I haven't played. I might just start playing them instead.
Not to mention that I have to wonder how helpful some of the eliet DPSers would be advice wise, as near as I can tell there is probably a major disconnect between what they think the general player base has and what they actually have.
I don't think the general player is going to have access to a fleet, and if they do it's probably nowhere near maxed out. it's also doubtful that they would even know what a DPS parser is due to the fact that nothing in game even hints at the even the existence of such a thing. I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them didn't know about any of the channels since the game doesn't mention anything about them.
Federation Shipyards http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=218
- Here is where officers of the Federation meet to discuss their ships, equipment and layouts.
Klingon Fleetyards http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217
- Here is where Klingon warriors meet to discuss their Birds of Prey and Raptors, as well as Battle Cruisers and Carriers.
Romulan Flotilla http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=381
- Here is where members of the Romulan Republic meet to discuss their Warbirds.
Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Content http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122
- This is where you post your feedback on the various Feature Episodes, Events (STFs, Fleet Actions, etc.), and PvE Content (Adventure Zones, etc.) in Star Trek Online.
Builds, Powers, and Game Mechanics http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=219
- This is where you can share builds, and post your feedback on powers and game mechanics (including Bridge Officers) in Star Trek Online.
Duty Officer System and R&D http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=251
- This is where you post your feedback on the DOFF system, and the Research and Development system.
vs.
Star Trek Online General Discussion http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=128
- This forum is for whining, making excuses, and blaming others.
There was a time I would dump on the DPS crowd as well, but from my vantage point they are one of the more active groups that holding what's left of the community together. And given Cryptics predilection to make DPS more of a central aspect to the game, it might behoove you to spend some time reconsidering their value. If you need help ask - theres a number of forum threads here and on Reddit where you can get build help.
I did and they helped. And right now DPS-10K is the only channel that's cranking out private games at almost all hours. And it only takes common gear and a little skill to get in the room.
Education is STO is non existent. If it doesn't generate money, Cryptic has no desire to hand hold you or anyone else through the process of playing their game. Even the EP is on record as not knowing how some things work. Go figure.
So... you can scream into the vacuum - or - you can do a little research, ask a few questions and get a handle on how to play to maximize what you have so that the grind is less annoying.
'cause at this point, all you have is the grind.
to a degree i agree with you, but there is a role for sci and eng, plenty of dps'rs are made of glass.
not only that you can further buff the dps'rs power and debuff the resistance values. a sci or an cruiser cant solo, but they can most defo help in a team.
for example a scimitar with thalaron pulse, i Eps conduit him, extend shields and tac team then grav well in front. untold damage right there, or even just a dread with scatter volley.
Player A) 14,672.8 DPS, 22.1% Hits In/23.1% Damage In, 140,364 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player
Player Me) 8,644.3 DPS, 31.1% Hits In/25.4% Damage In, 493,579 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player D) 6,758.0 DPS, 23.0% Hits In/17.3% Damage In, 486,353 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player E) 2,955.1 DPS, 11.6% Hits In/16.5% Damage In, 184,796 Heal Out, 3 Deaths
Player A got a 10k invite from the run.
My build for that run: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=evangeline_5343
Outside of two DOFFs previously bought on the Exchange, no Reputation Gear, no Fleet Gear, no Lobi Gear, no Lock Box Gear, no R&D Gear...a T5 Mirror Universe Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. Yes, there were two R&D Traits...but that's just time. Yes, 23 Intel/15 Pilot...but that's just time. Yes, Reputation Traits...but that's just solo missions, Daily Bonus Marks, and time. The gear is just mission gear and drops. 3pc Solanae, Breen Core, Breen Cluster, Vaad Cluster, 6x Phasers from the DQ story, 3 crappy Neuts, 3 crappy Partigens, and 3 crappy Phaser Relays. Odds are pretty good that not only would somebody be in a better ship would they would have acquired better gear.
There are folks that have done lists of the free gear out there. There is the Episode Replay list over on STOwiki with what gear one can get from that. There are things folks can put together so they've got something going on as they tackle Advanced.
Just because the top 5% of the DPS League Table folks out there are doing 38k+ DPS doesn't mean that Advanced requires 38k+ DPS from folks. That's the top 5% of the folks uploading parses. It ain't the common folk like me doing that...lol.
The run before that one...yep, was in my Benthan - had all sorts of R&D Gear, Lock Box Gear, Lobi Gear, Rep Gear, Fleet Gear, had my Rom SRO BOFFs, etc, etc, etc - no, not a G14 boat by any means - just a few G14 consoles, none of the space set beyond VR12, and then just a hodgepodge of the rest because I'm kind of lazy.
It failed 236 seconds in on the first Transformer...cause I'm not some top 5% guy...not top 10%. I couldn't carry it.
Player Me) 20,423.3 DPS, 74.9% Hits In/62.2% Damage In, 499,512 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player
Player C) 3,065.4 DPS, 15.9% Hits In/24.1% Damage In, 133,344 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player D) 2,538.1 DPS, 8.2% Hits In/12.9% Damage In, 59,088 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
Player E) 1,725.3 DPS, 0.6% Hits In/0.6% Damage In, 0 Heal Out, 0 Deaths
And according to some folks in this thread and other threads, we're supposed to feel sorry for those players...and it's all Cryptic's fault? That's a steaming pile of Targ TRIBBLE...
"Nothing is broken and the game is the greatest game ever made..... And you keep playing it so we know that to be true."
Doubt the average player gives two craps about the forum.
Have a forum thats way more help that the game forums, doesn't use condescending words like noob, scrub, or lear to play. I also bother to read the stuff in the mission and watch the intro cutscene at least once, which is why during the Mirror Invasion event I knew what to do while the DPSers seemed to be fumbling around in the dark.
Again this assumes most players are aware of the channels and what to spend time waiting for them to pop up, if this was the case I doubt wee would have ques.
Which is the problem and why the hardcore gamer base is usually a minority, people aren't going to invest that much time in playing a video game and all the complaining and calling people noobs in the world will never change this.
A large proportion of the players are not in fleets.
So with those two points in mind there's probably a huge proportion of players who have:
a) no knowledge of DPS or how to measure it.
b) no interest in DPS other than a basic requirement to be effective based on how they want to enjoy the game.
Therefore we can write as many guides as we want on here, we can bemoan the players with low DPS as much as we like. But we are never going to change the fact that there will always be a lot of players with pretty low DPS numbers.
And those players are still going to be trying out all of the material in the game so they are going to mingle with those of us who by their standards are well versed in the workings of the game and have a pretty good idea of what DPS is required when.
So unless the whole game has some pretty drastic changes you're always going to get low DPS'ers in pugs.
Now many of us can join private queues if we so desire, and have access to fleet-mates, teamspeak and so on so we can go through queues with our eyes closed. Then you have the really high DPS'ers who can literally just look at a queue and kill everything in seconds.
Problem is that the devs seem to be basing what they do on what that top 1% of the players do. And that is what causes the biggest issues we have in game at the moment. If everything is being designed or modified with the top 1% in mind then clearly all the others players (i.e. the vast majority) are going to have a pretty rough time.
That's exactly what has happened with DR:
1) The top 1% were completing things too fast - increase difficulty (the only way they know how = higher HPs).
2) The top 1% were getting too many rewards because they were completing things too fast - lower rewards.
I would love to see every player show and interest in being able to do at least 8K DPS and be able to pull their weight in a fight, truth is that's never going to happen.
Obviously it was not directed at players that do not visit the forums...but rather those in this thread that apparently do.
Or are they just shooting from the hip?
Yeah , about those "invites" ... -- can that spam be stopped ?
It often feels like they set their long term goals too far out, so as they work toward something, it is no longer relevant by the time they get there. As mentioned in that one thread, they're trying to look at it as a closed system. Just doesn't work that way, imho. It gives the appearance, to me, that they're always chasing their tail and getting nowhere.
There's an actual invite? I thought the channel just appeared in the list of available channels? My privacy settings are set so that I don't have much interaction with folks in the game outside of the Team, Fleet, or subscribed channels. If there is some spam going on there, could bring it up in that DPS thread that...er...fudge, was it porchsong did? The one they stickied?
Probably doesn't help that it seems that when ever there is behind the scenes reshuffling suddenly things get changed around majorly.
Much like how reputations were the endgame progression up until the EP change over than rep traits were reworked and specializations became the new thing for endgame progression.
That "appearance" is what I was referring to as spam .
... what's next ? ppl showing up on your friend list out of the blue ? :rolleyes:
But there is a circular logic to it. The idea that in order to have gear on the order of the challenge, an advanced or elite queue, that one needs to actually play said advanced or elite queue.
Previously, you could work the Borg STFs on normal, and get the MKXI MACO/Borg/Omega sets. I made sure to purchase the MACO ground set at MkXI BEFORE I ever went into a ground STF because I read on these here forums, that you should have the three piece set bonus for the integral remodulator. As a matter of fact, since it was post Rep system, I got the MkX set first by running Borg red alerts before I got the MkXI. That is no longer an option. That MkXI set required no BNP. Now we can only get the MkXII and that does require the processors.
No one who is paying attention wants to drag down their teams, nor do they want to get yelled at by the guys who know what they're doing for TRIBBLE up.
So people who haven't done these things already and don't know anyone who has, are going to end up going into an Advanced or above queue without a clue or the gear.
I have been PM'ed after the fact about not doing enough DPS. Things like that can completely sour someone on running these things is all. Telling the whole story shows something additional. Yes the guy did do some crazy amount of DPS soloing a side of Khitomer by himself. But other than that...he was a crappy player. No teamwork, no instruction either. I'm in the chat asking for instruction trying to get things coordinated, and nothing.
I have two problems with the difficulty. 1st the old Elite and the New Advanced weren't equal. 2nd, the enemy HP at the start of DR was insane. It's better now, but I have a more basic beef with it. I don't see why a Tholian Orb Weaver should have 346k HP, when my Galaxy Dread only has 76K. It feels silly. Someone suggested giving them less HP and more resist in the same way we players do.
More generally though the current Queue system is not friendly and it shows by the fact that PUG'ing is on life support right now.
I definitely support removing the fail timer and fail Cooldown lockout. They seriously discourage trial, error, and learning.
I would appreciate if you would elaborate on that point.
Because there is a disconnect on damage and damage done as a team.
I watched this Youtube video about a 10K or 20K assault cruiser refit, a guy had a Regent Disruptor Beam Boat with crazy DPS in ISE. People in the comments were pointing out that his damage was getting boosted by his teams debuffs they three or four APBs on target at all times.
Do these big 38K+ DPS builds actually do that kind of damage solo, or is it as a result of the team.
Where do skills fall in? For instance my main has very little invested in Energy Weapons Specialization because I didn't know that it elevated crit and that crit was the mark of true damage when I was allocating points.
That may be arguably true for Ground, but it is utterly wrong for Space.
No BNP gear is necessary to do good DPS. In fact, practically no builds that do +30k will have any gear that need BNPs. The Space equipment is not great.
Ground, the frequency remodulator is nice, although nowadays most people just bring the shotgun or sniper rifle and skip remodulating entirely.
It's about damage you do while in a team. That's when your teammates care about your DPS.
Solo damage is irrelevant. Nobody cares if you do 100k solo if you only do 1k in a team because your piloting actually sucks and you can never reach targets before the rest of the team kills them.
Uh, the description of Starship Energy Weapon Specialization is "This skill improves your Starship's Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Severity with Energy Weapons such as beams, cannons and turrets."
This is not one of the many cases where STO fails to provide sufficient information on a mechanic.
You only need to do Advanced queues for two of the reps if you need the stuff now.
Undine, Nukara, Romulan, Dyson- these items can all be acquired without Advanced queue content, and without waiting.
So, people complaining that they have to do Advanced queues for reputation items is flatly wrong. You don't need to, and even if you did, it's only for 2/6 reputations.
In other words, you're wrong.
Say we've got Maxwell that fires away doing 22325.58 DPS against the Gateway because he's only got his Enhanced Armor Penetration going and nobody's dropped any debuffs on the target.
I come along and manage a Disruptor proc for him.
Maxwell's doing 23709.67 DPS now. 1384.09 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out a Sensor Scan III for him.
Maxwell's doing 31984.29 DPS now. 9658.71 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out an Attack Pattern Beta II for him.
Maxwell's doing 35927.64 DPS now. 13602.06 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out an Ionic Turbulence I for him.
Maxwell's doing 38077.03 DPS now. 15751.45 more DPS than without me.
I come along and also drop out Intelligence Fleet II for him.
Maxwell's doing 39255.74 DPS now. 16930.16 more DPS than without me.
He's doing 175.83% the damage he was before...without having changed a thing he was doing.
Course, that's only going to be against that particular target - can only drop out so many debuffs so often - those Hull Damage Resistance debuffs aren't going to do a thing about damage vs. Shields. Course, there are ways to reduce Shield Damage Reduction as well - also ways to increase Shield Penetration so more faces that debuffed Hull Damage Resistance. So one person alone isn't going to max-out Maxwell.
Meanwhile, all this stuff going on around him...Maxwell hasn't changed a thing.
So it's a case of getting to a certain point on your own...then finding groups where everybody helps each other along more than you'd find in your average public queue.
Cause it's not just going to be debuff help, there's also going to be buff help.
So hopefully Maxwell will notice what's going on around him...and start helping those around him too. Cause up to the point folks start tripping over each other and have to spread out or you just have to bring non-DPS folks along for the ride, his helping folks will also help him.
A group working together can do more than a group not working together.
Which is one of the things why it can so infuriating when folks show up in apple carts and chase butterflies...not only are they hurting the group, but they're hurting themselves.
And thanks for posting your build. Mine is comparable so at least I know I'm doing something right.
I was using an example from the past because it's easily understood.
That's not precisely what I was asking.
I was asking does each individual person doing more damage in a team format because they're benefiting from stacking buffs and debuffs of their team collectively skew DPS perceptions higher, or is it just that these people do monstrous DPS individually period.
Yes that's the description, mind you I never paid attention to it until I had spent what would've gone into it on something else. Now is that information incorrect or is it unimportant.
Because when I was leveling I had no clue that critical damage was such a huge portion of anyone's damage output.
You're not telling me anything. I'm geared. I'm fully aware that you can beat an STF with non-rep gear. I said gear on the order of the challenge, not gear of necessity.
So you're saying that there's nothing to the idea that it's illogical to run a queue to gain gear for the purpose of running that same queue? (or set of queues)
I mean in that case you're pointing out a larger problem.
Namely that for those in the know all of the Reputation Gear is superfluous.
My natural thinking would be you would gain from one mission gear that would be beneficial in the next mission, not something that would be beneficial to the mission I just beat.
I'm not sinn74, so I can't answer for what he's saying...but as far as what's being said:
STO is not a progression game. You do not run Dungeon A to get gear to run Dungeon B to get gear to run Dungeon C to get gear to run Raid X...etc, etc, etc. It's a treadmill game. You run Dungeon A to get gear to run Dungeon A faster to get gear to run Dungeon A faster or maybe to run Dungeon B faster to get gear to run Dungeon A faster...er...basically the gear just lets you run the treadmill faster. Sometimes it doesn't even do that, cause the gear you can acquire from it is worse than what you could acquire elsewhere easier. Sometimes it's just about outfit choices while running on that treadmill.
So it's beneficial in the sense that you might run the treadmill faster or have cool FX on your ship as you run that treadmill...but uh...well, none of all this powercreep in STO actually leads anywhere. It's just running the treadmill faster and faster and faster...until maybe you go for a drink, come back, and hop on another machine - another treadmill...not a harder treadmill, just a different one.
It's one of those things, where you look at what the DPS records being set these days compared to before S7 and think about that ISA only requires perhaps 2-3k more DPS than ISE did. It's where some may have used the term "crutches" in relation to all of the powercreep - allowing folks to do stuff some took for granted...while also resulting in folks parsing at Warp Factor Ludicrous.
Folks, lemme kinda explain the rules around here because this continuously happens a lot.
The general discussion area is NOT a place to use "just because it'll get viewed most". It's a place where if nothing else fits, it goes here. also, this would be considered a duplicate thread which is not allowed on the forums (it's considered spam).
If there is a thread about something you're already bringing up, then USE that thread. Making another one is just annoying as sooner or later we'll merge them together, delete them entirely, or close them like this one is having done to it.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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