That's nice. Still doesn't mean it's not happening.
Not everypone records videos. Not everyone expects to be called a liar. There is other issues in the game where videos or pictures aren't need to prove anything. More than one person has said it's happened to them.
Ummm. No, no they don't. If anyone is guilty of anything here however, it is you for such a nonsensical post. Thanks for contributing though.
Had I anticipated that the game would unfairly penalize me for being AFK when I was actively trying to finish the mission objectives, I would have recorded the session. All I can offer you as proof is my word and the ticket number I filed in response to it (if you want it). I don't have any reason to lie about incurring an AFK penalty. I'm sorry that you're so cynical that you refuse to believe it, but it did.
its not so much that, as being in an stf when one of the high dps peope roll through on a pug.
if you just happen to only do the dps of 2 years ago(about 4k), while they are pushing the limits of dps with the current power creep, (easily 70k +) then the system will smack you.
Nope. Let's look basic math here. Take ISA - to not fail the 15 minute timer (which is a hard fail condition, btw), each person has to be doing 7k dps. So, let's say that one person, Pug Joe, is in an ISA, doing his 7k dps. His 4 teammates, Uber 1, 2, 3, and 4, all warp in, and do 100k each, by some freak of nature. Pug Joe did 7k of 407k, or 1.7%. Pug Joe, because he was doing enough to not fail the queue (even though he did the bare minimum for that), still managed to not get AFK'd, even though he had 4 teammates who did 100k.
For him to get AFK'd in this run, he'd half to either be doing about half the damage not to fail (and as such, shouldn't be in the queue in the first place), or his teammates would have to all be setting a record dps of over 170k.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
That's nice. Still doesn't mean it's not happening.
Not everypone records videos. Not everyone expects to be called a liar. There is other issues in the game where videos or pictures aren't need to prove anything. More than one person has said it's happened to them.
Ummm. No, no they don't. If anyone is guilty of anything here however, it is you for such a nonsensical post. Thanks for contributing though.
Yeah...calling BS on this one.
2) Of EVERY SINGLE AFK penalty story ever, UI is not one of the mission. Hell none of the ground is. The AFK penalty is from space and we know the source of that one and it's actually working correctly (seriously, can't do 1% damage, you deserve the penalty...with the caveat that a 100+k ship entering normal pug is bad on the DPS guy somewhat).
My role is sometimes playing a pure healer ship in NWS constantly healing and buffing the trader in the middle. So are you saying thats not allowed!
What happens when you play one of the upcoming builds where you turn your own energy weapons off to boost everyone elses damage?
Had I anticipated that the game would unfairly penalize me for being AFK when I was actively trying to finish the mission objectives, I would have recorded the session. All I can offer you as proof is my word and the ticket number I filed in response to it (if you want it). I don't have any reason to lie about incurring an AFK penalty. I'm sorry that you're so cynical that you refuse to believe it, but it did.
I think you've quoted the wrong guy here dude....he/she is not one of the disbelievers on this.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
Poster's can say all they want but, it has yet to be proven it happens to the degree they complain about.
To the position above....a little softening of position there. At least some effort was being made by this...poster to adjust their position so they don't look so bad.
Oh wow, I'm trying to see how this poster is being helpful to anyone but I just don't see it. Like at all
Looks to me like bad troll attempt.
Yep. A very bad troll attempt. A lot of troll sniping going on here as well. I guess this is what some people enjoy doing while waiting for PvE to pop in a queue.
Had I anticipated that the game would unfairly penalize me for being AFK when I was actively trying to finish the mission objectives, I would have recorded the session. All I can offer you as proof is my word and the ticket number I filed in response to it (if you want it). I don't have any reason to lie about incurring an AFK penalty. I'm sorry that you're so cynical that you refuse to believe it, but it did.
Ummm, quoting the wrong guy here. Mistakes happen I guess. But I believe you.
"The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges."
Quoting Wikipedia for legal stuff is never a good idea. But in this case, no one has been able to provide the necessary proof it is not happening. Personal testimony has however been provided to prove that it has.
Not really. We are just asking for confirmation that this bug is happening. Not just for our own peace of mind but so Cryptic can't deny it's happening. They can and probably will ignore it because fixing bugs isn't a priority, but proof blows any of their denials that nothings wrong out of the water.
I'd be very surprised if Cryptic acknowledged this bug. It is but one among many. But on the slight chance you were talking about proof from players, the personal testimony contained herein this thread should at least be enough for them to consider taking another pass at the AFK system when time allows. You know, even just double checking it or something.
There is no need for "proof." Nobody cares what you believe. Cryptic knows how the system is designed to work, even if they're not telling us, and thats all that matters.
Losing a mission without firing a shot would obviously get you 0% damage (perhaps excluding the situation where nobody shot anything so its 0/0 damage). So if 0% damage = AFK then failing a mission like Undine Infiltration before you've damaged something would get you declared AFK. Only Cryptic knows if there is something more complex going on in the penalty system.
Maybe there should be a reminder in the beginning of UI that tells players to make sure they shoot something before anyone answers any questions, so they're covered in case it fails? :rolleyes:
There is no need for "proof." Nobody cares what you believe. Cryptic knows how the system is designed to work, even if they're not telling us, and thats all that matters.
Losing a mission without firing a shot would obviously get you 0% damage (perhaps excluding the situation where nobody shot anything so its 0/0 damage). So if 0% damage = AFK then failing a mission like Undine Infiltration before you've damaged something would get you declared AFK. Only Cryptic knows if there is something more complex going on in the penalty system.
Maybe there should be a reminder in the beginning of UI that tells players to make sure they shoot something before anyone answers any questions, so they're covered in case it fails? :rolleyes:
I have run this mission countless times, it has even failed within a mere 10secs., due to someone answering the first person wrongly and, guess what?
No one got a freaking afk penalty, myself included, none of us had gotten a single shot in either so, again I do not see it happening!
And, as for proof, when the vast majority seem to be not complaining of this issue nor, experiencing this issue, than I would say that is far more proof than a tiny few complainers on the forum.
I have run this mission countless times, it has even failed within a mere 10secs., due to someone answering the first person wrongly and, guess what?
No one got a freaking afk penalty, myself included, none of us had gotten a single shot in either so, again I do not see it happening!
Seriously dude, you need a chill pill or something. Calm down or something. No one got a penalty? :Slow Clap: Good for you... :Slow Clap: This does not preclude it happening to others which has been discussed. This thread is not about you. You don't have to see it happen for it to be true, you're not that important to the game to be believed over others. No single player is.
And, as for proof, when the vast majority seem to be not complaining of this issue nor, experiencing this issue, than I would say that is far more proof than a tiny few complainers on the forum.
Not complaining or only a small number of players voicing their concerns, doesn't mean it is not happening. You have no way to determine how many are or are not, experiencing this. Some people it'll happen to and they'll go meh, shrug their shoulders and switch to another toon.
What proof do you have that builds that aren't even on the live servers yet have been unjustly penalized for being AFK?
Well if the AFK penalty is based on low DPS and the new stuff is based on low DPS to boost the team then one would expect the new stuff to run the risks of triggering the AFK penalty due to low DPS.
For example what happens if I use the new power to switch off my energy weapons to boost the team? My DPS plummets. Its doubly bad if you play a support role. Support builds are already low DPS and it makes sense for them to switch off energy weapons to give the team even more support.
Seriously dude, you need a chill pill or something. Calm down or something. No one got a penalty? :Slow Clap: Good for you... :Slow Clap: This does not preclude it happening to others which has been discussed. This thread is not about you. You don't have to see it happen for it to be true, you're not that important to the game to be believed over others. No single player is.
Not complaining or only a small number of players voicing their concerns, doesn't mean it is not happening. You have no way to determine how many are or are not, experiencing this. Some people it'll happen to and they'll go meh, shrug their shoulders and switch to another toon.
1 funny thing I just noticed about Shadowwraith77 is that he made a thread about "New MACO/OMEGA/KHG costume and accolade issue" in 2013. Maybe I should go in and say that this bug doesn't exist since it never happened to me and he's a liar. WAI, right? :rolleyes:
1 funny thing I just noticed about Shadowwraith77 is that he made a thread about "New MACO/OMEGA/KHG costume and accolade issue" in 2013. Maybe I should go in and say that this bug doesn't exist since it never happened to me and he's a liar. WAI, right? :rolleyes:
I have shown more than enough proof on that subject and, it was noted by the Devs as bugged so, you comment is irrelevant.
Quoting Wikipedia for legal stuff is never a good idea. But in this case, no one has been able to provide the necessary proof it is not happening. Personal testimony has however been provided to prove that it has.
"Shifting the burden of proof is a kind of logical fallacy in argumentation whereby the person who would ordinarily have the burden of proof in an argument attempts to switch that burden to the other person."
I can go on.
Personal testimony is just that, your word against someone elses. I have personal testimony that says I've never been hit with the AFK penalty, even in Undine Infiltration where I'm usually just waiting for something to occur to react to while someone else answers questions. That doesn't mean the AFK penalty isn't bugged in some way.
I'm not agreeing with either side in this, just saying if there IS a problem with the AFK system, you need to be able to prove it rather than just say it's there.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Personal testimony is just that, your word against someone elses. I have personal testimony that says I've never been hit with the AFK penalty, even in Undine Infiltration where I'm usually just waiting for something to occur to react to while someone else answers questions. That doesn't mean the AFK penalty isn't bugged in some way.
I'm not agreeing with either side in this, just saying as there IS a problem with the AFK system, you need to be able to prove it rather than just say it's there.
This, well this you in essence calling people liars who've had the problem arise although I appreciate this is probably not your intention. An ever increasing number of people who report a problem also factors into the balance of probabilities. Players who are unconnected, different configurations, different actions in the mission get hit with the problem, then it is not unreasonable to believe that in some combinations, it does in fact happen. Fixed it as well.
Also the first charge laid so to speak in this thread was in the rather vitriolic post by shadowwraith77. It is he that would need to prove his point rather than anyone else that you don't get the penalty. He in fact, has not been able to do so and never will. If however someone happened to record a run and it occured, then unequivocal proof would be provided.
There's too much smoke on this issue for there not to be a fire.
Do you go to the bug reports forum to spam objections to every report you haven't personally experienced?
This whole argument is pointless. You posting "never happened to me" over and over again and believing everyone is lying means absolutely nothing. Nobody's interested in convincing you...well, maybe someone is, but they shouldn't be. Your beliefs change the game as much as mine do, not at all.
Whether people actually are getting the penalty when they shouldn't, well that's entirely up to Cryptic. Fact is we don't even know how the system is meant to work, so how could we possibly know if its working correctly or not, regardless of "evidence?" All we can do is tell them we think there's something fishy going on.
Do you go to the bug reports forum to spam objections to every report you haven't personally experienced?
This whole argument is pointless. You posting "never happened to me" over and over again and believing everyone is lying means absolutely nothing. Nobody's interested in convincing you...well, maybe someone is, but they shouldn't be. Your beliefs change the game as much as mine do, not at all.
Whether people actually are getting the penalty when they shouldn't, well that's entirely up to Cryptic. Fact is we don't even know how the system is meant to work, so how could we possibly know if its working correctly or not, regardless of "evidence?" All we can do is tell them we think there's something fishy going on.
Because every time I have tried very hard, to recreate the so called issue, all that happens is no issue!
So, I have tried multiple times whether by choice or, not by choice and, have yet to see with my own eyes any actual fact of this occurring so, naturally I am going to say it is not factual but, instead something that can be avoided and is caused by the player(s) themselves.
Because every time I have tried very hard, to recreate the so called issue, all that happens is no issue!
So, I have tried multiple times whether by choice or, not by choice and, have yet to see with my own eyes any actual fact of this occurring so, naturally I am going to say it is not factual but, instead something that can be avoided and is caused by the player(s) themselves.
No need to try dude. Random thing. I really don't see why you're trying so hard on this. It hasn't happened to you, okay, that's a fact. I'm willing to believe you on that. It's happened to others, that's a fact. So I believe them as well.
The issue here is you seem so pent up about it that because it's not happened to you or nobody happens to have had it happened while recording a run, that it can't be true. It doesn't work that way.
You just seem to want to disbelieve others regardless what they say.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
No need to try dude. Random thing. I really don't see why you're trying so hard on this. It hasn't happened to you, okay, that's a fact. I'm willing to believe you on that. It's happened to others, that's a fact. So I believe them as well.
The issue here is you seem so pent up about it that because it's not happened to you or nobody happens to have had it happened while recording a run, that it can't be true. It doesn't work that way.
You just seem to want to disbelieve others regardless what they say.
Of course, because if it's player fault and, can be easily prevented/avoided, than all they are accomplishing, is eliminating that which has been penalizing leechers effectively for some time now.
I haven't seen active mission participation this good, until they enacted the penalty system, not that all participation is helpful or, good but, at least they are participating in some fashion.
Better than the old, sit at start and click need on all group loot, collect end reward, move on and do the same for all queues.
If some actual proof can be thrown in the Devs face, than the complaints have actual ground to stand on.
Right now, all it seems like is false accusations, with no actual hard evidence and, if that's how every case is handled in a justice system, than you would have virtually ever citizen in court/jail/prison, not that this doesn't already occur!
Of course, because if it's player fault and, can be easily prevented/avoided, than all they are accomplishing, is eliminating that which has been penalizing leechers effectively for some time now.
I haven't seen active mission participation this good, until they enacted the penalty system, not that all participation is helpful or, good but, at least they are participating in some fashion.
Better than the old, sit at start and click need on all group loot, collect end reward, move on and do the same for all queues.
If some actual proof can be thrown in the Devs face, than the complaints have actual ground to stand on.
Right now, all it seems like is false accusations, with no actual hard evidence and, if that's how every case is handled in a justice system, than you would have virtually ever citizen in court/jail/prison, not that this doesn't already occur!
Edit: not sure why the yellow sentence quote given I said I'm happy to believe both sides that have been put forward.
We don't know for sure it's player fault, we don't know for sure it isn't. Participation is better? It certainly seems to be.
A recorded run would be great, it may even push it up the ladder for getting looked at. But if it's random or appears to be, there's no way to be ever sure of getting that. Right now the complaints do have ground to stand on. Enough different people have had it happen to them that it should be like a blip on a radar or something.
If there was recorded proof it'd be like moving from sand to concrete, it's firmer. As to false accusations and the court analogy? I can see where you're going, but possibly not the best fit. But to use that, empirical evidence is admissable in court, well certainly in some countries (not sure about yours) and judgments can be made from that.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
I've received one AFK penalty.. And wasnt AFK.. But I understand why I got it.. Was during xmas break. Lots of people over.. kids on their tablets watching youtube. Dont have the greatest internet.. Had horrible enough lag I got kicked off.. By the time it let me back in the mission was pretty much over and I got the penalty. So it in a way did its job. It detected I didnt do any damage. I shrugged it off and went to another toon. Didnt see a reason to come to the forums and complain about it.
Edit: not sure why the yellow sentence quote given I said I'm happy to believe both sides that have been put forward.
We don't know for sure it's player fault, we don't know for sure it isn't. Participation is better? It certainly seems to be.
A recorded run would be great, it may even push it up the ladder for getting looked at. But if it's random or appears to be, there's no way to be ever sure of getting that. Right now the complaints do have ground to stand on. Enough different people have had it happen to them that it should be like a blip on a radar or something.
If there was recorded proof it'd be like moving from sand to concrete, it's firmer. As to false accusations and the court analogy? I can see where you're going, but possibly not the best fit. But to use that, empirical evidence is admissable in court, well certainly in some countries (not sure about yours) and judgments can be made from that.
Here's the issue I see, the title says to just remove it, which IMO is a clear statement coming from someone who cannot and/or, will not try to avoid it if they can.
In other words, sounds like some leecher to me, looking for any old excuse to try and have it removed so, as to allow them to continue their leeching without any hindrances.
Instead of just remove it, how about maybe suggest they simply fix it?
Here's the issue I see, the title says to just remove it, which IMO is a clear statement coming from someone who cannot and/or, will not try to avoid it if they can.
In other words, sounds like some leecher to me, looking for any old excuse to try and have it removed so, as to allow them to continue their leeching without any hindrances.
Instead of just remove it, how about maybe suggest they simply fix it?
You are making a lot of assumptions here that have tainted your posts with such a negative tone.
Clear statement? How about someone who is just exasperated and frustrated with the situation.
You are making an accusation about leeching without foundation, although somewhat qualified. But again with the constant negativity. You just seem to want assume the worst without probable cause.
Yes, title could have been better.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
Of course, because if it's player fault and, can be easily prevented/avoided, than all they are accomplishing, is eliminating that which has been penalizing leechers effectively for some time now.
Since you're so big on proof, I suppose you have some for this claim of effectiveness of the penalty?
From what I've seen the system is based entirely on the assumption that players won't figure out where the thin line is that separates those who are counted as "having participated" and those who are not (=wishful thinking). Anyone who seriously wanted to leech queues could probably learn to avoid the penalty with a token effort.
This, well this you in essence calling people liars who've had the problem arise although I appreciate this is probably not your intention. An ever increasing number of people who report a problem also factors into the balance of probabilities. Players who are unconnected, different configurations, different actions in the mission get hit with the problem, then it is not unreasonable to believe that in some combinations, it does in fact happen. Fixed it as well.
Also the first charge laid so to speak in this thread was in the rather vitriolic post by shadowwraith77. It is he that would need to prove his point rather than anyone else that you don't get the penalty. He in fact, has not been able to do so and never will. If however someone happened to record a run and it occured, then unequivocal proof would be provided.
There's too much smoke on this issue for there not to be a fire.
I'd say it's not so much as I'm calling them liars as I'm questioning their judgement. They say they weren't violating the AFK parameters but perhaps they misunderstand those parameters, or perhaps there's other aspects of the AFK system we don't fully know about. Without knowing exactly what they did in relation to the other players within the mission, we only have their word that they didn't deserve the penalty.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
I'd say it's not so much as I'm calling them liars as I'm questioning their judgement. They say they weren't violating the AFK parameters but perhaps they misunderstand those parameters, or perhaps there's other aspects of the AFK system we don't fully know about. Without knowing exactly what they did in relation to the other players within the mission, we only have their word that they didn't deserve the penalty.
Questioning someone's judgement is saying they don't have the capacity for cognitive reasoning or thought, it could be interpreted as calling them stupid. Given that you've now said this, that's hopefully not the intention. A lot of the replies from people who've had the issue arise seem to be from perfectly sound minded people who've run it a few times. Not unreasonable to assume they know how to do the mission.
As to the AFK parameters, no one knows bar Cryptic. Perhaps there is some odd sequence of actions that triggers it somehow, who knows.
We have their word and empirical evidence. It's enough as we have no reason to doubt them, nor hard evidence to the contrary.
Comments
Had I anticipated that the game would unfairly penalize me for being AFK when I was actively trying to finish the mission objectives, I would have recorded the session. All I can offer you as proof is my word and the ticket number I filed in response to it (if you want it). I don't have any reason to lie about incurring an AFK penalty. I'm sorry that you're so cynical that you refuse to believe it, but it did.
Nope. Let's look basic math here. Take ISA - to not fail the 15 minute timer (which is a hard fail condition, btw), each person has to be doing 7k dps. So, let's say that one person, Pug Joe, is in an ISA, doing his 7k dps. His 4 teammates, Uber 1, 2, 3, and 4, all warp in, and do 100k each, by some freak of nature. Pug Joe did 7k of 407k, or 1.7%. Pug Joe, because he was doing enough to not fail the queue (even though he did the bare minimum for that), still managed to not get AFK'd, even though he had 4 teammates who did 100k.
For him to get AFK'd in this run, he'd half to either be doing about half the damage not to fail (and as such, shouldn't be in the queue in the first place), or his teammates would have to all be setting a record dps of over 170k.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Then people can come here and complain again about inactive players in the STFs and accuse you of not doing anything.
That was way much more fun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof
"The necessity of proof always lies with the person who lays charges."
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
What happens when you play one of the upcoming builds where you turn your own energy weapons off to boost everyone elses damage?
I think you've quoted the wrong guy here dude....he/she is not one of the disbelievers on this.
To the position above....a little softening of position there. At least some effort was being made by this...poster to adjust their position so they don't look so bad.
Yep. A very bad troll attempt. A lot of troll sniping going on here as well. I guess this is what some people enjoy doing while waiting for PvE to pop in a queue.
Ummm, quoting the wrong guy here. Mistakes happen I guess. But I believe you.
Quoting Wikipedia for legal stuff is never a good idea. But in this case, no one has been able to provide the necessary proof it is not happening. Personal testimony has however been provided to prove that it has.
I'd be very surprised if Cryptic acknowledged this bug. It is but one among many. But on the slight chance you were talking about proof from players, the personal testimony contained herein this thread should at least be enough for them to consider taking another pass at the AFK system when time allows. You know, even just double checking it or something.
I don't think he has any. Think he was just putting the question out there as to will there be any further ramifcations down the line as it were.
The cost of leveling is too damn high!
Losing a mission without firing a shot would obviously get you 0% damage (perhaps excluding the situation where nobody shot anything so its 0/0 damage). So if 0% damage = AFK then failing a mission like Undine Infiltration before you've damaged something would get you declared AFK. Only Cryptic knows if there is something more complex going on in the penalty system.
Maybe there should be a reminder in the beginning of UI that tells players to make sure they shoot something before anyone answers any questions, so they're covered in case it fails? :rolleyes:
I have run this mission countless times, it has even failed within a mere 10secs., due to someone answering the first person wrongly and, guess what?
No one got a freaking afk penalty, myself included, none of us had gotten a single shot in either so, again I do not see it happening!
And, as for proof, when the vast majority seem to be not complaining of this issue nor, experiencing this issue, than I would say that is far more proof than a tiny few complainers on the forum.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Seriously dude, you need a chill pill or something. Calm down or something. No one got a penalty? :Slow Clap: Good for you... :Slow Clap: This does not preclude it happening to others which has been discussed. This thread is not about you. You don't have to see it happen for it to be true, you're not that important to the game to be believed over others. No single player is.
Not complaining or only a small number of players voicing their concerns, doesn't mean it is not happening. You have no way to determine how many are or are not, experiencing this. Some people it'll happen to and they'll go meh, shrug their shoulders and switch to another toon.
For example what happens if I use the new power to switch off my energy weapons to boost the team? My DPS plummets. Its doubly bad if you play a support role. Support builds are already low DPS and it makes sense for them to switch off energy weapons to give the team even more support.
1 funny thing I just noticed about Shadowwraith77 is that he made a thread about "New MACO/OMEGA/KHG costume and accolade issue" in 2013. Maybe I should go in and say that this bug doesn't exist since it never happened to me and he's a liar. WAI, right? :rolleyes:
I have shown more than enough proof on that subject and, it was noted by the Devs as bugged so, you comment is irrelevant.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
"The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/burden+of+proof
"the obligation to establish a contention as fact by evoking evidence of its probable truth."
http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Shifting_the_burden_of_proof
"Shifting the burden of proof is a kind of logical fallacy in argumentation whereby the person who would ordinarily have the burden of proof in an argument attempts to switch that burden to the other person."
I can go on.
Personal testimony is just that, your word against someone elses. I have personal testimony that says I've never been hit with the AFK penalty, even in Undine Infiltration where I'm usually just waiting for something to occur to react to while someone else answers questions. That doesn't mean the AFK penalty isn't bugged in some way.
I'm not agreeing with either side in this, just saying if there IS a problem with the AFK system, you need to be able to prove it rather than just say it's there.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
This has been said already, no need to repeat.
This, well this you in essence calling people liars who've had the problem arise although I appreciate this is probably not your intention. An ever increasing number of people who report a problem also factors into the balance of probabilities. Players who are unconnected, different configurations, different actions in the mission get hit with the problem, then it is not unreasonable to believe that in some combinations, it does in fact happen. Fixed it as well.
Also the first charge laid so to speak in this thread was in the rather vitriolic post by shadowwraith77. It is he that would need to prove his point rather than anyone else that you don't get the penalty. He in fact, has not been able to do so and never will. If however someone happened to record a run and it occured, then unequivocal proof would be provided.
There's too much smoke on this issue for there not to be a fire.
This whole argument is pointless. You posting "never happened to me" over and over again and believing everyone is lying means absolutely nothing. Nobody's interested in convincing you...well, maybe someone is, but they shouldn't be. Your beliefs change the game as much as mine do, not at all.
Whether people actually are getting the penalty when they shouldn't, well that's entirely up to Cryptic. Fact is we don't even know how the system is meant to work, so how could we possibly know if its working correctly or not, regardless of "evidence?" All we can do is tell them we think there's something fishy going on.
Because every time I have tried very hard, to recreate the so called issue, all that happens is no issue!
So, I have tried multiple times whether by choice or, not by choice and, have yet to see with my own eyes any actual fact of this occurring so, naturally I am going to say it is not factual but, instead something that can be avoided and is caused by the player(s) themselves.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
No need to try dude. Random thing. I really don't see why you're trying so hard on this. It hasn't happened to you, okay, that's a fact. I'm willing to believe you on that. It's happened to others, that's a fact. So I believe them as well.
The issue here is you seem so pent up about it that because it's not happened to you or nobody happens to have had it happened while recording a run, that it can't be true. It doesn't work that way.
You just seem to want to disbelieve others regardless what they say.
Of course, because if it's player fault and, can be easily prevented/avoided, than all they are accomplishing, is eliminating that which has been penalizing leechers effectively for some time now.
I haven't seen active mission participation this good, until they enacted the penalty system, not that all participation is helpful or, good but, at least they are participating in some fashion.
Better than the old, sit at start and click need on all group loot, collect end reward, move on and do the same for all queues.
If some actual proof can be thrown in the Devs face, than the complaints have actual ground to stand on.
Right now, all it seems like is false accusations, with no actual hard evidence and, if that's how every case is handled in a justice system, than you would have virtually ever citizen in court/jail/prison, not that this doesn't already occur!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Edit: not sure why the yellow sentence quote given I said I'm happy to believe both sides that have been put forward.
We don't know for sure it's player fault, we don't know for sure it isn't. Participation is better? It certainly seems to be.
A recorded run would be great, it may even push it up the ladder for getting looked at. But if it's random or appears to be, there's no way to be ever sure of getting that. Right now the complaints do have ground to stand on. Enough different people have had it happen to them that it should be like a blip on a radar or something.
If there was recorded proof it'd be like moving from sand to concrete, it's firmer. As to false accusations and the court analogy? I can see where you're going, but possibly not the best fit. But to use that, empirical evidence is admissable in court, well certainly in some countries (not sure about yours) and judgments can be made from that.
I've received one AFK penalty.. And wasnt AFK.. But I understand why I got it.. Was during xmas break. Lots of people over.. kids on their tablets watching youtube. Dont have the greatest internet.. Had horrible enough lag I got kicked off.. By the time it let me back in the mission was pretty much over and I got the penalty. So it in a way did its job. It detected I didnt do any damage. I shrugged it off and went to another toon. Didnt see a reason to come to the forums and complain about it.
Here's the issue I see, the title says to just remove it, which IMO is a clear statement coming from someone who cannot and/or, will not try to avoid it if they can.
In other words, sounds like some leecher to me, looking for any old excuse to try and have it removed so, as to allow them to continue their leeching without any hindrances.
Instead of just remove it, how about maybe suggest they simply fix it?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
You are making a lot of assumptions here that have tainted your posts with such a negative tone.
Clear statement? How about someone who is just exasperated and frustrated with the situation.
You are making an accusation about leeching without foundation, although somewhat qualified. But again with the constant negativity. You just seem to want assume the worst without probable cause.
Yes, title could have been better.
Since you're so big on proof, I suppose you have some for this claim of effectiveness of the penalty?
From what I've seen the system is based entirely on the assumption that players won't figure out where the thin line is that separates those who are counted as "having participated" and those who are not (=wishful thinking). Anyone who seriously wanted to leech queues could probably learn to avoid the penalty with a token effort.
I'd say it's not so much as I'm calling them liars as I'm questioning their judgement. They say they weren't violating the AFK parameters but perhaps they misunderstand those parameters, or perhaps there's other aspects of the AFK system we don't fully know about. Without knowing exactly what they did in relation to the other players within the mission, we only have their word that they didn't deserve the penalty.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Questioning someone's judgement is saying they don't have the capacity for cognitive reasoning or thought, it could be interpreted as calling them stupid. Given that you've now said this, that's hopefully not the intention. A lot of the replies from people who've had the issue arise seem to be from perfectly sound minded people who've run it a few times. Not unreasonable to assume they know how to do the mission.
As to the AFK parameters, no one knows bar Cryptic. Perhaps there is some odd sequence of actions that triggers it somehow, who knows.
We have their word and empirical evidence. It's enough as we have no reason to doubt them, nor hard evidence to the contrary.
Sound words. It should certainly be enough anyway.