This is poor trailer on movie about KIM (that body in glass coffin). The Iconians (former PWE employees) TRIBBLE the Cryptic's studio, but the movie was saved.
What gets me with this part of the storyline is that nobody, save Harry Kim, even looks at the moral implications of Kobali rebirth. And who gets Shanghaied and turned into a Kobali? Harry Kim. Let's look at this situation objectively. First the Kobali go playing with forces that they don't fully understand, and like a six year old playing with a loaded gun, they end up shooting themselves. The wound is fatal, but they find a way to turn the dead of other peoples into Kobali and their customs be darned.
What gives them the right to do that? Sure you could say that they have a right to self preservation, but how does that override the death expectations of other cultures? It isn't as if they sought permission similar to organ donation, no they just hijack your corpse and your family and culture can go hang. If the Kobali can re-animate your corpse and turn it into a Kobali, why can't they re-ignite the living process and return the dead to life as you were? If they can do that, why can't the repair the damage to their own genetics? Have they even tried to seek the help of other more advanced races to repair their foul up so that they don't have to dig up the recently deceased?
Nope, they just snag some poor iteration of Harry Kim and do the dirty on him. The Kobali are in effect a parasitical race. They live off of the other species dead. In fact, the Kobali doomed their race to extinction when they tried to play God and destroyed their ability to re-produce. Now they turn to grave robbing to keep the race afloat and all Starfleet has to say about it is "prime directive?' I'm sorry, but the Kobali wrote their own check long ago. Why should the other races be forced to pay for it?
The only thing I'm wondering is if Cryptic will explore any of these issues or gloss them over with a heavy sugar coat.
I am not so sure Cryptic IS sugarcoating it.
I have had some very critical things to say about other parts of DR, but the level of creepiness and controversy (the good kind that comes from smart storytelling) that they have created in the Kobali arc is outstanding in my opinion. I think that the reaction you are showing here is one of the reactions they are intending to provoke.
Now, one thing that COULD allow the Kobali to continue on similar to their current practice would be IF the Ferengi were willing to sell their corpses to them. Given that the Ferengi have already monetized their remains, this would not be a drastic cultural shift and their economics and ethos would already have developed to cope with some of the risks involved. I could actually see a financial scheme where a Ferengi sold the rights to their remains and received a nest egg from the Kobali to invest during their lifetime, and in return the Kobali would get the remains at the end.
I am not saying I LIKE such a practice, but at least in the context of the Trek universe, it would remove any qualms about nonconsent from the equation. The Kobali will just have to get used to the fact that the new model is much shorter...
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
In fact, both Voyagers thought they they were the original and the other the duplicate. Every atom of matter in Voyager and the crew was duplicated, so in effect, they are both the original.
But why is no one thinking how weird this is going to be for Harry and "Keten." He's Schrodinger's Captain now.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
You are mostly right. In the episode the entire ship was duplicated. There is no "original" or "Duplicate" now though. It was never clear in the episode which ship was actually the "extra" one. In addition, the duplication process created quantum duplicates, so it was not like Voyager was photocopied, with one clearly a copy. It was two originals (like if you order two copies of your birth certificate, they do not copy the second, they print you two originals).
But just to be extra clear, they are never clear in that episode which ship was the "real" one and which was the duplicate.
+1
as stated in this comment there is no parallel universe or duplicate/clones of harry he is the same person he was on the other Voyager so in sense nothing has changed except that maybe his body from that episode was recovered and will now be a kobali, if he accepts his new life.
Hmm Voyager was my least favorite Trek and I must have missed Deadlock --recap when it aired in 1996. So Keten is the body of former Harry Kim (the original, not the quantum duplicate version).
Wow, Ballard has some seriously unresolved issues you know? She can't let him go. If she was a Borg drone she'd assimilate him too so they'd be on the same Cube!
People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey ... stuff. --the Doctor, "Blink"
it sound more a love story and who knows maybe it become? i hope also that more events cominc in STO like easter day or other holiday event i found really lack of it in the 5 years of STO
I'm going to say it, because I'm actually surprised no one else has.
Thank you, Kestrel (Cryptic staff writer).
There's various critiques about how it's improbable that Harry Kim (VOY "Deadlock") could be saved and repurposed for this STO episode. (Assuming this is the actual case.)
This is science FICTION.
I'm happy to see STO explore this story idea. One, it's a great reason to bring Garrett Wang back for voiceover work. (Here I thought Michael Dorn and esp. Tim Russ were fantastic; Garrett is incredible!) Two, you're reconnecting fans with two of VOY's better episodes.
I'm not sure how many folks out there are familiar with a failed Kickstarter effort from 2014. Titled "Star Trek Equinox: The Night of Time", it involved the unlikely re-emergence of Captain Rudy Ransom (VOY "Equinox, Pts. I and II").
Implausible? Definitely. Viewers saw Ransom die.
But did he?
"The Night of Time" endeavored to address that.
Again, science FICTION.
Star Trek is about the human condition. It is about hope for the future. Even as fiction, this "Keten" story is one I'm looking forward to experiencing in-game. This is part of the DR story arc which should have been included in the initial release; it might have addressed the moral dilemmas experienced by players (I'm assuming).
Ive seen people go to crazy lengths for a booty call but this is just ridiculous
and before people say "well thats not it cos kobali dont use sexual reproduction"
Im not talking about reproduction im talking recreational intercourse. Nothing in the lore to say they dont have sexual organs.
It's actually really funny when you think about it. It's been what? 30+ years since that episode of Voyager, and she was supposed to find a way to settle in to Kobali society right? Well instead of doing that she's obsessed about this for over 30 years, gone out of her way to find Deadlocked Harry's corpse in space, and regenerate it out of some obsession for love. So much for giving up on her own life and settling with being a Kobali. Heck, the real Kim is on Kobali Prime during this time, and as far as we know, she hasn't even taken the time to talk to him or catch up. :rolleyes:
She might not have been looking for him. But maybe some Kobali ship ran into this Kim's cold, dead body and she found out about it 30 years later and decided to make it her misison to integrate him into Kobali life. After all, there's another Harry Kim out there who is now a Starfleet Captain... what would this Ensign Kim look forward to then? Look at how well Thomas Riker turned out living in the shadow of William Riker.
Anyways, randomly finding this dead Kim body floating is space after 30 years is an interesting thing to explore... if Lindsey had issues integrating into her new life, I expect soon to be alive dead Harry to have the same issues. If not more so since there is a Starlfeet presence on Kobali Prime and he will want to talk to them about his situation... and runs into a 30+ years later version of himself as a Starlfeet Captain. And then we see what a Harry Kim going postal looks like.
Kobali Kim hijacks a ship, causes some incident that catches the Aliiance's eye in orbit of Kobali Prime and we have now a chase, two Kims, and a recipie for the anniversary episode. :eek:
PS: the Bridge Officer candidate we get out of this beter be a hybrid Human/Kobali with some nifty intel powers in space and ground.
What is bad in tring to keep your race alive ? do you they loved - ar they love- that they do it only by reanimating dead of other races ? don you think they will much more like if they reproduced normal way ?
If these Kobali were to take my moms corpse and reanimate her with another soul inside, dude that entire species would feel my wrath. It is a disgusting way to be alive. Universe doesn't even give you your own bodies, you have steal them from the dead. And read that love letter again, the original soul is still inside the body???!! Wtf how can you condone that, broken english or not?
Btw, how did the first Kobali happen to be? I have been pondering the answer for several hours now....laboratory mistake?
I am not a huge fan (in character, I do enjoy their species as an interesting storyline) of the Kobali either and if you play through the Kobali arc, you can see why the Vaadwaur are fighting them. The Vaadwaur have a right to be angry as hell.
That said, the Vaadwaur - as led by Gaul - ARE evil. Gaul had it coming to him with what he was up to.
The end of the Kobali arc does show them showing some remorse in what they did with the Vaadwaur and making amends of sorts.
Completely agreed. I can not like anything Kobali. I can also imagine that their Body Odor must be stuff of legend, some of their bodies must be over 100yrs old! Not sure why the dev's thought we would all love the kobali and feel for their situation, but then again we STILL CANNOT DISCHARGE TOVAN KHEV, so I do not expect to much....to bad we can not donate his TRIBBLE to Kobali for 'research' purposes :cool:
Gaul was doing what he thought best and the Iconians managed to manipulate him to the extreme, parasites or no. Do I agree with him? No but I would have supported the war against the Kobali(if this really happened anyways). I was more of Eldex fan anyways.
And yes, ok the Kobali felt bad about how they survive....did they stop though? And they are hiding Harry Kim(A or from us, withholding what I would think is vital information to the Alliance, much less Admiral Tuvok or Janeway.
I will say this, I sure am excited to see where this goes!! :D Please keep it come Cryptic!!!! :cool:
really you going to bring back the harry who died for the anniversary wjy stop their bring back baby naomi wildman to . really i am not a big fan of the konali and their descecration of peoples remains and i can't see starfleet to happy about it either because now it seems the people still retain memories of their past
I don't think it's that Harry. The log entry is clearly LB, Keten though. Not sure who it will be, hope to hell it's not Mr. Suder. That said you are right about the desecration of people's remains. The Pink Skins would def have issues with that one. They've even gone to war with one another, over the fact someone desecrated some of their fellow pink skin's remains. And well if they'll go to war with one another over that issue, I have zero doubt they'd be willing to go to war if it meant they had to, in order to stop the Kobali. Oh also, it should be noted that in the "LB" episode of Voyager, Captain Janeway did warn the Kobali about tampering with the remains of Human beings and member races of the Federation so....fwiw this Andorian is not hoping for Iconians, although I also would like to see that story line/plot finished and continued. At this point this Andorian is hoping the Federation switch's sides. Helps the Vaadwaur (after getting rid of Gaul) and goes to war to stop the Kobali, in large part due to it's Human, Andorian, Vulcan, Tellarite, Betazoid, members which would ALL according to long established Trek cannon about those cultures have an issue with desecration of their dead. As would/do the Ferengi and the Romulans/Remans. It is interesting to note that of all the race's of the Alpha Quadrant and allies/members of the Federation, really just about the only one this Andorian can think of which would not have an issue desecration of the dead by the Kobali, unless of course they for some reason they would see that as "dishonorable" for some reason. But it should be noted that in TNG it was established by Trek, that the Klingon's have a very pragmatic view of disposal of the dead. Basically treating the dead as refuse, just an empty worthless shell. :eek:
The strange part is Captain Kim is ON Kobali Prime! So.... um... it's entirely possible we're going to end up seeing both versions of him in the same episode fairly soon....
haha this is my favorite part. hopefully now he will no longer be able to stand around idly playing with his calculator thingy.
the kim's npc is strangely quiet and you can't even talk to him. even worf says fight with honor every time you speak to him. kim just ignores you and continues to play with his calculator pad thingy
haha this is my favorite part. hopefully now he will no longer be able to stand around idly playing with his calculator thingy.
the kim's npc is strangely quiet and you can't even talk to him. even worf says fight with honor every time you speak to him. kim just ignores you and continues to play with his calculator pad thingy
How exactly can they revive a clearly longer than 72 hours (or what magic number they give how long it's possible to "recreate" someone) dead corpse which was exposed to space?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
So do all kobali remember their former lifes or just a bunch or just those with the thickest plot armor?
'Cause that really digs up a whole lot other questions like do the former vaudwaar kobali remember being vaadwaur and if the did were they brainwashed so they would actually shoot at their former friends, comrades and maybe even families?
Every time I hear more about our space zombie "allies" I feel less compelled to fight for them.
The strange part is Captain Kim is ON Kobali Prime! So.... um... it's entirely possible we're going to end up seeing both versions of him in the same episode fairly soon....
Do you remember that voyager episode "Deadlock"? The real Harry died by being blown out into space. This is probably that dead Harry they found floating about.
So do all kobali remember their former lifes or just a bunch or just those with the thickest plot armor?
'Cause that really digs up a whole lot other questions like do the former vaudwaar kobali remember being vaadwaur and if the did were they brainwashed so they would actually shoot at their former friends, comrades and maybe even families?
Every time I hear more about our space zombie "allies" I feel less compelled to fight for them.
It was explained in the voyager episode that the majority of them forget their past lives, but there is a small percentage that remember.
smells to me, as followup on the Delta Episodes...
Anyone who remembers the last 5 seconds of a certain cutscene, where a Kobali is standing next to a certain cryo-tube, sending thoughts to a certain person in said cryo-tube...
Poor Harry Keten. Little does he know, he has to come out of his long sleep just in time to grind out a new specialisation as well as the old ones. He will probably climb right back inside that pod.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
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Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
I am not so sure Cryptic IS sugarcoating it.
I have had some very critical things to say about other parts of DR, but the level of creepiness and controversy (the good kind that comes from smart storytelling) that they have created in the Kobali arc is outstanding in my opinion. I think that the reaction you are showing here is one of the reactions they are intending to provoke.
Now, one thing that COULD allow the Kobali to continue on similar to their current practice would be IF the Ferengi were willing to sell their corpses to them. Given that the Ferengi have already monetized their remains, this would not be a drastic cultural shift and their economics and ethos would already have developed to cope with some of the risks involved. I could actually see a financial scheme where a Ferengi sold the rights to their remains and received a nest egg from the Kobali to invest during their lifetime, and in return the Kobali would get the remains at the end.
I am not saying I LIKE such a practice, but at least in the context of the Trek universe, it would remove any qualms about nonconsent from the equation. The Kobali will just have to get used to the fact that the new model is much shorter...
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Ive seen people go to crazy lengths for a booty call but this is just ridiculous
and before people say "well thats not it cos kobali dont use sexual reproduction"
Im not talking about reproduction im talking recreational intercourse. Nothing in the lore to say they dont have sexual organs.
Executive Officer of Alpha Squadron
They should call him "Schrodinger's Kim".
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
+1
as stated in this comment there is no parallel universe or duplicate/clones of harry he is the same person he was on the other Voyager so in sense nothing has changed except that maybe his body from that episode was recovered and will now be a kobali, if he accepts his new life.
Wow, Ballard has some seriously unresolved issues you know? She can't let him go. If she was a Borg drone she'd assimilate him too so they'd be on the same Cube!
Thank you, Kestrel (Cryptic staff writer).
There's various critiques about how it's improbable that Harry Kim (VOY "Deadlock") could be saved and repurposed for this STO episode. (Assuming this is the actual case.)
This is science FICTION.
I'm happy to see STO explore this story idea. One, it's a great reason to bring Garrett Wang back for voiceover work. (Here I thought Michael Dorn and esp. Tim Russ were fantastic; Garrett is incredible!) Two, you're reconnecting fans with two of VOY's better episodes.
I'm not sure how many folks out there are familiar with a failed Kickstarter effort from 2014. Titled "Star Trek Equinox: The Night of Time", it involved the unlikely re-emergence of Captain Rudy Ransom (VOY "Equinox, Pts. I and II").
Implausible? Definitely. Viewers saw Ransom die.
But did he?
"The Night of Time" endeavored to address that.
Again, science FICTION.
Star Trek is about the human condition. It is about hope for the future. Even as fiction, this "Keten" story is one I'm looking forward to experiencing in-game. This is part of the DR story arc which should have been included in the initial release; it might have addressed the moral dilemmas experienced by players (I'm assuming).
I'm looking forward to playing it.
It's actually really funny when you think about it. It's been what? 30+ years since that episode of Voyager, and she was supposed to find a way to settle in to Kobali society right? Well instead of doing that she's obsessed about this for over 30 years, gone out of her way to find Deadlocked Harry's corpse in space, and regenerate it out of some obsession for love. So much for giving up on her own life and settling with being a Kobali. Heck, the real Kim is on Kobali Prime during this time, and as far as we know, she hasn't even taken the time to talk to him or catch up. :rolleyes:
Oh my God, Cryptic supports cloning! That can only mean that..
Oh my God, Cryptic works together with Monsanto*!
Jesus, I need to start at least 2 threads about that.
*Monsanto, now with 10% less organic waste than any other leading clone company.
:P:D
Anyways, randomly finding this dead Kim body floating is space after 30 years is an interesting thing to explore... if Lindsey had issues integrating into her new life, I expect soon to be alive dead Harry to have the same issues. If not more so since there is a Starlfeet presence on Kobali Prime and he will want to talk to them about his situation... and runs into a 30+ years later version of himself as a Starlfeet Captain. And then we see what a Harry Kim going postal looks like.
Kobali Kim hijacks a ship, causes some incident that catches the Aliiance's eye in orbit of Kobali Prime and we have now a chase, two Kims, and a recipie for the anniversary episode. :eek:
PS: the Bridge Officer candidate we get out of this beter be a hybrid Human/Kobali with some nifty intel powers in space and ground.
If these Kobali were to take my moms corpse and reanimate her with another soul inside, dude that entire species would feel my wrath. It is a disgusting way to be alive. Universe doesn't even give you your own bodies, you have steal them from the dead. And read that love letter again, the original soul is still inside the body???!! Wtf how can you condone that, broken english or not?
Btw, how did the first Kobali happen to be? I have been pondering the answer for several hours now....laboratory mistake?
Completely agreed. I can not like anything Kobali. I can also imagine that their Body Odor must be stuff of legend, some of their bodies must be over 100yrs old! Not sure why the dev's thought we would all love the kobali and feel for their situation, but then again we STILL CANNOT DISCHARGE TOVAN KHEV, so I do not expect to much....to bad we can not donate his TRIBBLE to Kobali for 'research' purposes :cool:
Gaul was doing what he thought best and the Iconians managed to manipulate him to the extreme, parasites or no. Do I agree with him? No but I would have supported the war against the Kobali(if this really happened anyways). I was more of Eldex fan anyways.
And yes, ok the Kobali felt bad about how they survive....did they stop though? And they are hiding Harry Kim(A or
I will say this, I sure am excited to see where this goes!!
haha this is my favorite part. hopefully now he will no longer be able to stand around idly playing with his calculator thingy.
the kim's npc is strangely quiet and you can't even talk to him. even worf says fight with honor every time you speak to him. kim just ignores you and continues to play with his calculator pad thingy
... and I thank God for that
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'Cause that really digs up a whole lot other questions like do the former vaudwaar kobali remember being vaadwaur and if the did were they brainwashed so they would actually shoot at their former friends, comrades and maybe even families?
Every time I hear more about our space zombie "allies" I feel less compelled to fight for them.
Do you remember that voyager episode "Deadlock"? The real Harry died by being blown out into space. This is probably that dead Harry they found floating about.
It was explained in the voyager episode that the majority of them forget their past lives, but there is a small percentage that remember.
Admiral Tuvok: "Mayday all systems down we require immediate assistance"
Bridge Officer: "All command ships are disabled (insert rank), you have the fleet!"
A Kobali frigate warps in
Keten: "Everybody Clear the dreadnought Im going in?"
Cpt Kim: "Are you crazy you wont stand a chance"
Keten: "I have a trick up my sleeve" "Commander, overload the warp core, divert extra power to shields and prepare for warp burst"
Cpt Kim: "Are you doing what I think you're doing?"
Keten: "If you mean an antimatter warp speed torpedo then yes"
Tuvok: "I feel I should advise against this course of action, the chance of success is slim and you will certainly be killed"
Keten: "Im already dead!" "Commander"
Commander: "Call me Lyndsey"
Keten: "Lyndsey, Engage!"
Anyone who remembers the last 5 seconds of a certain cutscene, where a Kobali is standing next to a certain cryo-tube, sending thoughts to a certain person in said cryo-tube...
So what does Kimali have to do with the Borg at the Bajoran wormhole?
that right there ^^^
made me LOL so hard i almost fell out of my chair
cryptic is becoming way to predictable now and i predict within the next two years playable borg ships via lock boxes..
Hilarious representation of the current game state!
Had to login just to say i laughed out loud at that comment