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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The meaning of life? that's easy.

    It's 42.
    No, that's not the meaning - 42 is the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Problem is, no one knows what the Ultimate Question actually is. (The one imprinted on Arthur's brain was "What do you get when you multiply six by nine?", but that was after the organic computer that was Earth had been corrupted by the crash of the Golgafrincham B Ark.)

    There is one school of thought that holds that if the Ultimate Question and the Ultimate Answer were ever to be known at the same time, the entire universe would disappear, to be instantly replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another which believes that this has already happened.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I must be the only person on this crazy planet who has absolutely no interest in Monty Pythons, Who, Hitchhiker, and the Urknall Theory with those highschool kids.

    It's not just you.

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  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The problem is that tribbles breed like....well....like tribbles. :rolleyes:
    I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
    My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I accept your apology as sincerely as I anticipate people to accept mine.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Oh, dear heavens! We're being given a free character slot, and the opportunity to get special bonuses by playing the game!! How terrible!
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    I'm a grandpa now! Three times over! :)

    Congrats, you old TRIBBLE. :D
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Oh, dear heavens! We're being given a free character slot, and the opportunity to get special bonuses by playing the game!! How terrible!

    I'm lukewarm about it myself, as I described it. The fact that we do get the free slot and possible account-wide bonuses helps, but I do feel like Cryptic is trying to boost their numbers artificially, without addressing the problems for existing toons. :-/ So I am considering making such a toon but I will not continue that toon past the event. I will just take what I can for Alyosha and Berat's sake, IF the rewards for them are commensurate with the time Cryptic is asking me to invest.

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  • lindalefflindaleff Member Posts: 3,734 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    My head is spinning, and I am in desperate need of culinary counselling.

    I just bought a box of salt, and the back of the box has a recipe for "Savoury Meatloaf." That's right. It actually says "Savoury." Savoury. Meatloaf. Savoury.

    Am I missing something here? I always thought the entire point of a meatloaf WAS to be savoury. Or is sweet meatloaf a thing?

    I never thought I would see the day that a box of salt would fry my brain....:rolleyes:
    I completed a 2-man CSE, ISE, and KASE, Optionals included. And I soloed Winter Invasion.
    My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    If the highlighted words mean "Talaxians," you have proved my point.

    Really? How?

    All I'm saying is that every Talaxian I have ever seen, on the show or in the game, has been a lazy, self-centered incompetent. And Shevet's Talaxian is playing every Talaxian stereotype to the hilt, by being an arrogant, bratty, self-centered jerk.

    I'd LOVE to see a Talaxian who doesn't show a flagrant disregard for other people. But Pex has repeatedly shown herself to be a self-centered jerk who mouths off to the law. I don't hate her for being a Talaxian, but for playing every Talaxian stereotype straight.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No offense, but personal attacks (which you just resorted to) is NOT putting thought into a post.

    And what credentials do you have?

    What personal attacks? You're a random guy on the Internet. That's a statement of fact.

    So am I, really.

    But I can point to a published paper that I wrote. I'm literally a published ornithologist.

    I could also point to two successful NaNoWriMos, but there isn't much of a hard trail of those that's easily available.

    Anyway. I don't have the time, the inclination, or the energy to continue this argument. Take it to the reply thread and keep it there if you really must continue, please.
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    What personal attacks? You're a random guy on the Internet. That's a statement of fact.

    Ok. It is a statement of fact which, due to the tone of the previous conversation,I took as an attack. I apologize.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ok. It is a statement of fact which, due to the tone of the previous conversation,I took as an attack. I apologize.

    Eh, it's fine...I shouldn't be so pissy. It's been a long, stressful day, and two friends are dealing with tough life stuff.
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Eh, it's fine...I shouldn't be so pissy. It's been a long, stressful day, and two friends are dealing with tough life stuff.

    I understand, I too have a friend who's having a rough time of it right now. Thanks for this.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I understand, I too have a friend who's having a rough time of it right now. Thanks for this.

    I'm spending a third of my time here, a third talking a friend out of a metaphorical tree, and a third writing...

    And it's 11 PM.

    I'm an idiot.
  • themetalstickmanthemetalstickman Member Posts: 1,010 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    I'm spending a third of my time here, a third talking a friend out of a metaphorical tree, and a third writing...

    And it's 11 PM.

    I'm an idiot.

    Ah. East Coast. Now the "long, stressful day" comment makes sense.
    Og12TbC.jpg

    Your father was captain of a starship for twelve minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mother's, and yours.

    I dare you to do better.
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Ah. East Coast. Now the "long, stressful day" comment makes sense.

    Yeah.

    Tri-state area, too. >_<
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Again with the Tovan hate. Wow. Just wow. O_O

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  • rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE JUST BLOODY READ!

    Yes Cryptic has a long history of messing up but GOD each time someone jumps off the handle shouting about things that Cryptic did that are 100% untrue you know what I do? Not march on Cryptic HQ or fight the good fight against them.

    I slap the inside of my skull facepalming at this Fox News level fearmongering going on.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I think the therapsid/dinosaur discussion, fascinating as it is, has derailed Shevet's story long enough, so I'll put this here.

    Worffan, I thought you might find this xkcd strip amusing; it happened to have been linked earlier today on my Twitter feed by Rich Stevens, creator of Diesel Sweeties.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    I think the therapsid/dinosaur discussion, fascinating as it is, has derailed Shevet's story long enough, so I'll put this here.
    Ask me anything about prehistoric life and I'll either answer it or find a reference that does.
    jonsills wrote: »
    Worffan, I thought you might find this xkcd strip amusing; it happened to have been linked earlier today on my Twitter feed by Rich Stevens, creator of Diesel Sweeties.

    Yes.

    This is a good world.

    (I have a t-shirt, btw, with a Canada goose printed on it. The caption says "Dinosaurs are among us")
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,460 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Ask me anything about prehistoric life and I'll either answer it or find a reference that does.
    Oh, don't get me wrong; that wasn't sarcasm, I actually am fascinated by the discussion. I'm just afraid we might throw Shevet off his/her game, and this story's really grabbed me (I was close to what had happened to the Kobali, but not dead-on - I'd guessed that the energy output of the hologenerator had been so strong that it had disrupted the operation of the Kobali virus, the one that reanimates those dead bodies).
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Oh, don't get me wrong; that wasn't sarcasm, I actually am fascinated by the discussion. I'm just afraid we might throw Shevet off his/her game, and this story's really grabbed me (I was close to what had happened to the Kobali, but not dead-on - I'd guessed that the energy output of the hologenerator had been so strong that it had disrupted the operation of the Kobali virus, the one that reanimates those dead bodies).

    Yeah, I probably should learn how to stop myself from going off on tangents like that...

    But hey, my career plans involve a lot of lecturing on paleontology, so I'm at least good at that! :D
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    BTW, is Alyosha named after the character from the Brothers Karamazov? The one Shatner played in the movie version?

    Shatner...Alyosha Karamazov? You just broke my brain. That sounds like it should be banned. :eek:

    And yes, Alexei Ivanovich is indeed named for Alexei Fyodorovich. His patronymic suggests the father's name is Ivan--it's one of the names that can be used as a placeholder, kind of like John Doe, in English.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language#People_4

    But other than his surname being slightly unusual, Alexei Ivanovich does not particularly stick out.

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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    gulberat wrote: »
    Shatner...Alyosha Karamazov? You just broke my brain. That sounds like it should be banned. :eek:

    And yes, Alexei Ivanovich is indeed named for Alexei Fyodorovich. His patronymic suggests the father's name is Ivan--it's one of the names that can be used as a placeholder, kind of like John Doe, in English.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_placeholder_names_by_language#People_4

    But other than his surname being slightly unusual, Alexei Ivanovich does not particularly stick out.

    It was actually a very good movie (even if it did leave out a lot of the book), and Shatner was very restrained. He was quite good, IMHO.

    Yeah, Ivan's basically a form of John, like my name (Purebred American mutt with a Scottish name, LOL). Humorously enough, it's only one letter removed, too. I got a lot of jokes about that...
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    There is also some further Karamazovian irony in Alyosha's name.

    My Alexei, a believer, is the son of "Ivan."

    "Ivan" is pretty much certainly one who, judging by typical Devidian behavior, likely believes that everything is permitted (or at least, like a certain Rodion Romanovich, believes himself superior and therefore allowed to take life as he pleases).

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  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Note to self: never make french toast for D'trel.

    Yeah. Let's add that to the list:
    1. Don't be Tal'Shiar or express sympathies for such around D'trel
    2. REALLY don't be Hakeev or mention him as a friend around D'trel
    3. Don't hurt First Omek'ti'kallan around D'trel
    4. Don't bad-mouth D'trel's dead lover around D'trel
    5. Don't bad-mouth Spock around D'trel; he's her hero, she will get very loudly upset, if not violently so
    6. Don't be sexist around D'trel
    7. Don't be racist around D'trel
    8. Don't laugh at sexual assault around D'trel, she will BREAK you
    9. Don't admit to any form of sexual assault or misconduct around D'trel
    10. Don't make French toast for D'trel, it will cause flashbacks to her lover's death
    11. Don't abuse sentient rights around D'trel (ask Q'Nel why not)
    12. Don't be criminally incompetent around D'trel. She takes a dim view of that.
    13. Don't eat dinner at D'trel's place. There was a thing once, involving a turak...
    14. Don't claim that losing your empire is the worst trauma ever around D'trel. Just don't. Looking at you, Gaul.
    Most of that is covered by basic decency, but there's a reason why she only interacts with close friends/comrades on a daily basis.

    And for the love of all that's holy, don't hurt First Omek'ti'kallan around D'trel, they're Platonic Life Partners and you just opened a box of pure agony.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Debatable. Again, I'm thinking age combined with biology.
    That's exactly what I'm thinking... If the comment made by the Doctor related to a biological capacity of the Vulcanoid brain, that would explain how one could live for several hundred years without becoming mentally traumatised by Human standards (and canonically, Vulcan Elders were always shown as being more in control of their faculties than not, except for when chronically ill as Sarek was) I suspect the reason why T'Reya is not more traumatised by the abuse she suffered at Scolak's hand, is that killing him put her back in a position of power, and also having been a priestess-initiate and more trained in the mental disciplines, she's able to compartmentalise her thoughts herself.

    worffan101 wrote: »
    Well, I view it as a challenge for her to overcome; the healing from trauma angle is something that I've been working on showing, and flying into a psychotic rage when confronted with the people who took her lover from her is a major weakness that has been used against her. I have a piece that I'm working on that I think you'll like that actually showcases her progress (and has her hand that arrogant jerk Sela over to Praetor Velal for execution, but in her defense the Khitomer Treaty has her hands tied).

    I also make a point of playing it as an actual weakness; c.f. Peace forged in Fire, where an intelligent villain plays D'trel's rage against her and almost kills her before Velal flies out of cloak and unleashes a can of whoopass on his rear. Also, killing Hakeev wasn't the smartest idea; a stable woman would've had her Lethean mindhound mine him for intel.

    And to be honest, this only would've been a problem in her earlier career; a year of dedicated therapy from a professional telepath and careful medication has her healed a lot, and she no longer immediately flies off the handle upon hearing "Tal'Shiar". Sure, she still kills them without mercy, but then again so does every other Republic officer.

    From a military/professional angle, she doesn't have these problems when facing other foes; and she's a brutally pragmatic, if aggressive, tactician when she's stable. That aggression is lethally effective against Romulans, however, given that Rihan tactical doctrines have revolved for centuries around careful planning and ambush, whereas D'trel relies on a bare-bones outline of a plan and rapid adaptation. Riskier than standard Romulan tactics but also devastating against officers who rely too much on plans and not enough on thinking on the fly.
    I'll look forward to seeing where things go for D'trel, I'd just be sorry to see it become the focus of the character, be it as a weakness or as a trait...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    But enough about D'trel, back to your story.

    Good to know.
    As before, think about how everyone reacted to Ilia's appearance on the bridge, and how she was able to neutralise Chekov's pain... This is why Kian reacted as she did to Ashiyana, and how Kaathi is able to help Lucas :cool:

    Edit to touch on a few points...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    I can accept space BS, outright magic, whatever the hell is needed for the setting...but within the story there MUST be consistency, and if the author tries to use real science it really has to make sense.

    For example, VOY: "Caretaker" had an excuse for a planet becoming a desert..."nucleogenic particles" apparently cause rain, and without rain...all that water just evaporates, only instead of the atmosphere becoming saturated and the water level becoming constant it just VANISHES, ok?

    That's what offends me, technobabble that assumes the viewer's an idiot.
    Actually, this example does make sense (if you're prepared to disengage 'RL Earth Science' and accept the inVerse science as presented. *Assumes Professor McScience persona...*

    "Nucleogenic particles are what causes evaporated water to recondense into cloud form and allow rain. OcampaLand has no nucleogenic particles, meaning that evaporated water simply dissipates. Planets like Caladan and Ferenginar have an over-abundance of nucleogenic particles, which explains the frequent heavy rains..."

    It's not assuming that anyone is an idiot (although you clearly perscieve it as a personal slight) it is simply providing an inVerse explanation to move the plot forward.

    worffan101 wrote: »
    ...this may be just me and the way I was trained, but I've always been taught that candid, honest advice is vital to the writing process.

    This is why I'm not upset when you or Sander or someone else points out my shortfalls. Everything you say can only help me get better.

    It would frankly be irresponsible for me as a reader to not leave candid feedback, as many times as necessary.

    ...I'm not understanding, because belaboring the point is actively encouraged here; if something's bad, or not good enough, and there's a clear way to fix it, and the feedback is repeatedly ignored, then more feedback is the best thing to give. If I wrote a blatant Mary Sue for a short story assignment and the professor showed me what I was doing wrong, or another student told me what I was doing wrong, and I ignored the advice, they would be completely justified in bringing it up again as needed.
    No, once it becomes clear that the feedback is ignored/rejected (as is the author's prerogative), that's when you decide to either 'put up and shut up' with what's posted, or you simply stop reading. I chose the latter option because the story simply didn't interest me and I found Pex massively irritating. To keep repeating the point and or attempting to direct the plot of coming pieces, is simply rude...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Sure, but this is the Kazon. They literally killed themselves plugging in a replicator. I can understand a really undeveloped species trying that and frying a few people, but an entire ship?

    They really can't be a threat to anything larger than a shuttle if the Captain's smart.
    Yes, but that is not the only thing the Kazon have ever done, and to judge all Kazon by the result of an accident occuring by people unfamiliar with a particular piece of technology, is a lazy dismissal of them. Plot dictated they were never going to be on the winning end against Mad Kathy and co, but, it also dictated they were able to free themselves from Trabe bondage, so demonstrably, at some point in history, there were some smart Kazon... The standard of education in the UK, for example, has dropped massively over the past hundred years. If you were to judge the sole intelligence of UK citizens by the values/behaviours of work-shy benefit monkeys, you would be failing to notice the entrepreneurs, scientists etc who are considerably smarter, so arguably, there could be some Kazon sects who are smarter and more competent... Maybe I ought to write something about the Kazon-Sera or Kazon-Zani sects, who are less culturally backslid* ;)

    (Because I say they are ;) )
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    That's exactly what I'm thinking... If the comment made by the Doctor related to a biological capacity of the Vulcanoid brain, that would explain how one could live for several hundred years without becoming mentally traumatised by Human standards (and canonically, Vulcan Elders were always shown as being more in control of their faculties than not, except for when chronically ill as Sarek was) I suspect the reason why T'Reya is not more traumatised by the abuse she suffered at Scolak's hand, is that killing him put her back in a position of power, and also having been a priestess-initiate and more trained in the mental disciplines, she's able to compartmentalise her thoughts herself.
    Hmmm. I'm going the opposite way, thinking that the lifespan plus biology equals a sh*t-ton of mental problems.
    I'll look forward to seeing where things go for D'trel, I'd just be sorry to see it become the focus of the character, be it as a weakness or as a trait...
    I'm actually trying to help her heal from it, let some of the other aspects of her character shine. Part of why the Q'Nel-killing story was so fun, that's more like what D'trel would be like without the trauma. She'd be less cold and bitter, and her rage would be ice rather than fire.

    She'd still have zero tolerance for people like Q'Nel, of course.
    Actually, this example does make sense (if you're prepared to disengage 'RL Earth Science' and accept the inVerse science as presented. *Assumes Professor McScience persona...*

    "Nucleogenic particles are what causes evaporated water to recondense into cloud form and allow rain. OcampaLand has no nucleogenic particles, meaning that evaporated water simply dissipates. Planets like Caladan and Ferenginar have an over-abundance of nucleogenic particles, which explains the frequent heavy rains..."

    It's not assuming that anyone is an idiot (although you clearly perscieve it as a personal slight) it is simply providing an inVerse explanation to move the plot forward.
    But it creates a problem: Ocampa Prime SHOULD have an atomsphere that's basically one big cloud. Instead, it's a desert.

    Somehow, water left, and physics says that it would take trillions of years for that much water to dissipate into space.

    The part that insults me is that it's blatantly bad science being used as a flimsy prop to move along a hackneyed plot that could JUST AS EASILY be explained by "weather patterns shifted because somebody screwed up the plate tectonics and now 95% of the planet's only continent is either a rainshadow or thousands of miles from the ocean, resulting in a predominance of highly arid conditions".

    Hell, that was Earth in the Permian.
    No, once it becomes clear that the feedback is ignored/rejected (as is the author's prerogative), that's when you decide to either 'put up and shut up' with what's posted, or you simply stop reading. I chose the latter option because the story simply didn't interest me and I found Pex massively irritating. To keep repeating the point and or attempting to direct the plot of coming pieces, is simply rude...
    ...that's just not how I've been trained.

    Although, given the number of times I've been called a "flamer" by certain people (you know the type, the ones who name their LOTR self-inserts Princess Sapphire Moonshade Sparkleshine and have said self-inserts falling for every available man)...you might be on to something.
    Yes, but that is not the only thing the Kazon have ever done, and to judge all Kazon by the result of an accident occuring by people unfamiliar with a particular piece of technology, is a lazy dismissal of them. Plot dictated they were never going to be on the winning end against Mad Kathy and co, but, it also dictated they were able to free themselves from Trabe bondage, so demonstrably, at some point in history, there were some smart Kazon... The standard of education in the UK, for example, has dropped massively over the past hundred years. If you were to judge the sole intelligence of UK citizens by the values/behaviours of work-shy benefit monkeys, you would be failing to notice the entrepreneurs, scientists etc who are considerably smarter, so arguably, there could be some Kazon sects who are smarter and more competent... Maybe I ought to write something about the Kazon-Sera or Kazon-Zani sects, who are less culturally backslid* ;)

    (Because I say they are ;) )

    Y'know, I have a pet hypothesis about the Kazon. They don't really rule anything.

    The Trabe just use them as a buffer so they can always feel superior to those around them--since said people are semi-intelligent space thugs that dress worse than the most slovenly basement monkey--hell, they dress worse than I do, and I've worn pyjamas to all of my classes these past 2 semesters without fail. Every single class, pyjamas (not that the professors care, my Arabic professor usually wears T-shirts with snarky pictures, and the Bio professors come in whatever they picked out in the morning darkness). Sometimes even the same ones for days on end.

    And even I dress better than the Kazon.

    Anyway, my pet hypothesis is that the Trabe didn't lose. They won. They get to be self-assured elitist bigots because the only species they interact with are the Kazon. The only reason Mabus et al were in trouble was because some Kazon actually had a single complex thought and realized what was up.
  • marcusdkanemarcusdkane Member Posts: 7,439 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Hmmm. I'm going the opposite way, thinking that the lifespan plus biology equals a sh*t-ton of mental problems.
    Based on or supported by what canon examples?
    worffan101 wrote: »
    I'm actually trying to help her heal from it, let some of the other aspects of her character shine. Part of why the Q'Nel-killing story was so fun, that's more like what D'trel would be like without the trauma. She'd be less cold and bitter, and her rage would be ice rather than fire.

    She'd still have zero tolerance for people like Q'Nel, of course.
    It would be interesting to see, as one-trick pony characters get boring quick, and, with regards zero tolerance, part of being an adult and functioning in a career involves being able to tolerate others one finds offensive (for any number of reasons) Giving a character carte-blanch to execute someone who might say/do something out of line, is just giving them an excuse, rather than a reason, to act, and shows someone who would likely be disqualified from any kind of supervisory or command duties, thus weakening the character a tad...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    But it creates a problem: Ocampa Prime SHOULD have an atomsphere that's basically one big cloud. Instead, it's a desert.
    But I just told you that nucleogenic particles are what turn evaporated water into clouds... No particles, no clouds... Sure, it's my own theory, but it's an internally consistent one to the plot...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Somehow, water left, and physics says that it would take trillions of years for that much water to dissipate into space.
    Again, internal consistency of plot... It's science fiction it doesn't need to be literally accurate, just consistent to itself...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    The part that insults me is that it's blatantly bad science being used as a flimsy prop to move along a hackneyed plot that could JUST AS EASILY be explained by "weather patterns shifted because somebody screwed up the plate tectonics and now 95% of the planet's only continent is either a rainshadow or thousands of miles from the ocean, resulting in a predominance of highly arid conditions".
    But without knowing the previous condition of the planet, how would someone be able to tell that the plate tectonics have been screwed with (without going into a lengthy exposition which delays the plot) Simple answer, nucleogenic particles... Quick and easy description as to not only why the planet's a desert, but unlikely to change...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    ...that's just not how I've been trained.

    Although, given the number of times I've been called a "flamer" by certain people (you know the type, the ones who name their LOTR self-inserts Princess Sapphire Moonshade Sparkleshine and have said self-inserts falling for every available man)...
    You take that sh*t about the Pentaxian Royal Family back!!!!!! :P ;) Regardless of how you've been trained, as with lecturing, you need to modify your approach based upon your audience...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    you might be on to something.
    I agree, posting work is inviting critique, but as before, once author comments make clear that such critique is not appreciated, or changes are not made (for example, is someone asking for review so they can make edits, or are they just saying "Wrote this, what do you think...?" ) tnat's when it's time to stop repeating the opinion or stop reading/watching something. So yeah, if you've found yourself being called a flamer in the past, you need to ask yourself why that is... Same as when you said the other day that you were subjected to homophobic abuse. If you were wearing a frilly night-dress at the time, or acting in a deliberately effeminate manner, then while that person has no right to make such comments, you really can't be surprised if they do... You may've noticed I have a fondness for sewing kimono and yukata. Do I wear them about town everyday? No. Why not? Because I don't want people subjecting me to ridicule... Is it an infringement on freedom of expression? Sure. Is it worth the hassle and frustration of being ridiculed? Absolutely not...
    worffan101 wrote: »
    Y'know, I have a pet hypothesis about the Kazon. They don't really rule anything.

    The Trabe just use them as a buffer so they can always feel superior to those around them--since said people are semi-intelligent space thugs that dress worse than the most slovenly basement monkey--hell, they dress worse than I do, and I've worn pyjamas to all of my classes these past 2 semesters without fail. Every single class, pyjamas (not that the professors care, my Arabic professor usually wears T-shirts with snarky pictures, and the Bio professors come in whatever they picked out in the morning darkness). Sometimes even the same ones for days on end.

    And even I dress better than the Kazon.

    Anyway, my pet hypothesis is that the Trabe didn't lose. They won. They get to be self-assured elitist bigots because the only species they interact with are the Kazon. The only reason Mabus et al were in trouble was because some Kazon actually had a single complex thought and realized what was up.
    First off, if you came into a class I was teaching wearing pyjamas, I'd have you kicked off the course for lack of respect to yourself, my class, and your fellow students... Nothing to do with freedom of expression, everything to do with respect or a lack thereof... But moving onto your hypothesis...

    So you're suggesting that the Trabe allow the Kazon to think they've won, so they act as a buffer between the Trabe and other species? Interesting hypothesis, but I would say it falls apart on a few points:

    - The Kazon sects are no longer subservient to the Trabe in any way, meaning the Trabe don't get any of the benefits of being slavers. In fact, it would be like a plantation owner letting all his slaves go, and sitting on the plantation and realising there's no one around to do the work, which they them-self are unaccustomed to doing...

    - Episodes of Voyager showed the Trabe interacting with other races, and I'm sure I've read there were Trabe prisoners in with Harry and Tom, so they are equally certainly not being buffered by the Kazon (or anything else)

    I see what you're meaning, that the Kazon might simply think they've won, but if that was the case, they would still be supporting the Trabe at some point in some capacity, which they simply don't...

    I would say that given the Kazon were using Trabe ships and technology and were declaring themselves to be self-freed, chances are that's exactly what they were...
  • worffan101worffan101 Member Posts: 9,518 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Based on or supported by what canon examples?
    Vulcanoids (a) live considerably longer than Humans and (b) have incredibly violent and passionate emotions. Without their logic, Vulcans are mercurial and often vicious.

    You mix that with even the smallest mental issues and the sh*t hits the fan.
    It would be interesting to see, as one-trick pony characters get boring quick, and, with regards zero tolerance, part of being an adult and functioning in a career involves being able to tolerate others one finds offensive (for any number of reasons) Giving a character carte-blanch to execute someone who might say/do something out of line, is just giving them an excuse, rather than a reason, to act, and shows someone who would likely be disqualified from any kind of supervisory or command duties, thus weakening the character a tad...
    Which is why I make a point of (a) penalizing the character in question for letting her issues take over*, and (b) helping her work through them.

    *Q'Nel is not a case of that; that was the appropriate response given (a) Rihan culture, (b) D'trel's moral code, and (c) the Alliance Security Council vote that resulted in the Klingons, Romulans, Benthans, and Octanti ordering D'trel to eliminate Q'Nel for crimes against sentient life.
    But I just told you that nucleogenic particles are what turn evaporated water into clouds... No particles, no clouds... Sure, it's my own theory, but it's an internally consistent one to the plot...
    It also blatantly ignores science that's actually pretty damn well-documented and already internally consistent, and which does NOT allow for some space BS being a vital part of it.
    Again, internal consistency of plot... It's science fiction it doesn't need to be literally accurate, just consistent to itself...
    People throw that justification at me, and I just say "OK, so the explanation that Native Americans were half-animal savages until magic space white guys taught them how to be human, that's OK?"

    Internal consistency is mandatory, but if you're going to use real-world science, at least use a technobabble explanation that any adult won't instantly see through!
    But without knowing the previous condition of the planet, how would someone be able to tell that the plate tectonics have been screwed with (without going into a lengthy exposition which delays the plot) Simple answer, nucleogenic particles... Quick and easy description as to not only why the planet's a desert, but unlikely to change...
    ...and any adult sees right through it.

    Look, all they needed to do was have Harry Kim say "There's a really low percentage of water on that planet, but I'm seeing architecture and rock formations that only form in the presence of oceans. Something caused this planet to lose 95% of its water." And then have the Caretaker say "Reason X caused the planet to lose most of its water, which destroyed the environment, and it's sort of our fault because Y, so I have to help this species".
    You take that sh*t about the Pentaxian Royal Family back!!!!!! :p;) Regardless of how you've been trained, as with lecturing, you need to modify your approach based upon your audience...
    Hmmm. I...eh, I dunno. Several of my professors would say that the more intractable someone is the more they need the advice.
    I agree, posting work is inviting critique, but as before, once author comments make clear that such critique is not appreciated, or changes are not made (for example, is someone asking for review so they can make edits, or are they just saying "Wrote this, what do you think...?" )
    ...that's the same thing. If you say "I wrote this thing, thoughts?", you're tacitly asking if there's any ways to make it better.
    tnat's when it's time to stop repeating the opinion or stop reading/watching something. So yeah, if you've found yourself being called a flamer in the past, you need to ask yourself why that is...
    I may have dropped the word "Mary-Sue" when a girl with a supermodel figure and 6 names killed Sauron and resurrected Boromir...in the same paragraph...
    Same as when you said the other day that you were subjected to homophobic abuse. If you were wearing a frilly night-dress at the time, or acting in a deliberately effeminate manner, then while that person has no right to make such comments, you really can't be surprised if they do...
    ...I was wearing plaid pyjama pants and a shirt with amusing pictures of cybernetically-enhanced birds.

    And even if I was wearing something stereotypically homosexual, I would have been completely within my rights to be surprised at experiencing homophobic abuse*.

    *Since I wasn't really paying attention and didn't recognize that the person who leveled the abuse was a certain type of bigot until they were already hurling nasty words at me. If I HAD been paying attention, then I could've expected it either way, because that particular person...well, let's just say that they live in a very small and hateful world.
    You may've noticed I have a fondness for sewing kimono and yukata. Do I wear them about town everyday? No. Why not? Because I don't want people subjecting me to ridicule... Is it an infringement on freedom of expression? Sure. Is it worth the hassle and frustration of being ridiculed? Absolutely not...
    You're talking to a man who was homeschooled, lives at a school where pyjamas and a shirt without stains is considered well-dressed, and whose roommate has worn the same jacket for the past six months without washing it once.

    I just don't have the perspective to understand your experiences.
    First off, if you came into a class I was teaching wearing pyjamas, I'd have you kicked off the course for lack of respect to yourself, my class, and your fellow students... Nothing to do with freedom of expression, everything to do with respect or a lack thereof... But moving onto your hypothesis...
    Well, given that certain Bio professors here regularly look like they were dressed by blind monkeys...and all of the professors here really don't care what you wear as long as you get the work done on time and you're learning stuff and enjoying the material...seems like a harsh attitude.
    So you're suggesting that the Trabe allow the Kazon to think they've won, so they act as a buffer between the Trabe and other species? Interesting hypothesis, but I would say it falls apart on a few points:
    Think Bullywugs and Sivs from "Forgotten Realms".
    - The Kazon sects are no longer subservient to the Trabe in any way, meaning the Trabe don't get any of the benefits of being slavers. In fact, it would be like a plantation owner letting all his slaves go, and sitting on the plantation and realising there's no one around to do the work, which they them-self are unaccustomed to doing...
    Ehhhhh, more like the Trabe having their own society, and deciding to keep stupid, incompetent Kazon in charge while assassinating those Kazon which show signs of intelligence; thus freeing the Trabe to have their own quiet little society while the Kazon brag about how great they are.
    - Episodes of Voyager showed the Trabe interacting with other races, and I'm sure I've read there were Trabe prisoners in with Harry and Tom, so they are equally certainly not being buffered by the Kazon (or anything else)

    I see what you're meaning, that the Kazon might simply think they've won, but if that was the case, they would still be supporting the Trabe at some point in some capacity, which they simply don't...

    I would say that given the Kazon were using Trabe ships and technology and were declaring themselves to be self-freed, chances are that's exactly what they were...

    One episode of Voyager showed the Trabe. One.

    There were two aliens with similar make-up in that Tom/Harry Hurt-Comfort fic--uh, I mean, "The Chute", but that doesn't mean much, they could've been caught trying to fiddle with the local government.

    Anyway, I like my hypothesis simply because it's better than the alternative...which is that the Trabe and Kazon are both really as dumb as they seem.
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