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The Universal Mark
kozar2
Member Posts: 602 Arc User
With all the talk of the grinds in this game (and there are million) might I suggest a change to what I will call a "Universal Mark" system. Have all mark granting content now grant Universal Marks instead or as an option. My two suggestions would be:
1. All rep and events would no longer require specific marks or pictures like they do now but would be replaced with the UM. Player collect them and use them where they like.
2. All systems remain as they are but the UM is added as a selectable option that pays out at 75% of the standard but can be used in any system.
It's better for the player base as they can now do the content they enjoy instead of feeling forced into yet another grind they don't care about. It's better for the developers as they'll be able to clearly see what's working and what's not. They can then eliminate or remake inferior maps and missions as needed.
Efficient, elegant, intelligent design. I know I know it has no chance of being adopted.
1. All rep and events would no longer require specific marks or pictures like they do now but would be replaced with the UM. Player collect them and use them where they like.
2. All systems remain as they are but the UM is added as a selectable option that pays out at 75% of the standard but can be used in any system.
It's better for the player base as they can now do the content they enjoy instead of feeling forced into yet another grind they don't care about. It's better for the developers as they'll be able to clearly see what's working and what's not. They can then eliminate or remake inferior maps and missions as needed.
Efficient, elegant, intelligent design. I know I know it has no chance of being adopted.
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They can't do that or they'll mess up their plans. There's a reason there are so many different currencies ingame and a reason that most can't be converted to other currencies and they are not going to change that for anything unless they add another currency to further obfuscate the system.
They ignored us then too.
Doesn't fit into Their 'Profit Margin' Plan.
:rolleyes:
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Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
What I would like to see though (as a compromise) is that more marks of different types be added to existing content. Not all of it, but some of it. STF's involving the Borg would come with Fleet, Omega and Delta Mark options (Borg are from the Delta Quadrant). Fleet Alerts (or rather, Starbase Defense) should reward depending on the enemy you're facing; if you're facing factions within the KDF then you're given a universal pack, and likewise if you're fighting FED you're also given a universal pack.
The only change I want to see to Reputations is get rid of BNPs, VCIs, IIs, APCs, etc and increase the dilithium rewards to compensate for the loss. The only thing that an equipment project should ever need is Marks, Dilithium, and Energy Credits.
Yes but removing the incentive to play less popular PVE's isn't something that should be given an automatic slot on the next patch notes. It should be considered and hey if the result of that is "no" then so be it. Universal marks would be convenient on the one hand but it would make the problem of being able to grind a small handful of PVE's for everything you need start even earlier in the game (ie. while working on rep tiers).
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Sadly, the time gates make it feel more like... ...rather than a significant accomplishment. Time gates mean that even if you focus on a specific Rep (or other time gated aspect of the game), it will still take just as many 20 hr/1 hr cycles to unlock, negating much of the sense of accomplishment from diving into a major chunk of the game and powering through it. Sure, you played the content, you earned the Marks... but did you stare at the timer? :P
Of course, they could have made progress through the Rep Systems automatic like many games, where completing a mission related to that group/subgroup/faction automatically raises your standing with them, but that would have removed a potential time gate, additional UI interactions, and EC sinks within the system itself (the relatively recent EC nerf reduced the sale price of Rep Crate items below the EC cost of the Rep projects in most, if not all, cases). Of course, the more time you spend interacting with the UI, the more time you are in-game, and thus are considered to be playing the game.
Let's have them remove the marks and do automatic progression, right?
Okay, so you remove the ability to turn in extra Marks for Dilithium - with all the complaints about needing to raise the Dilithium Refinement Cap, we're obviously earning too much Dil anyway and don't need that.
Okay, so you remove the ability to do the Hourly and Daily Boxes to earn various random rewards there - it's a TRIBBLE shoot anyway, even if you might get some good gear out of it or even some of the special items needed for other gear.
Okay, so you remove the subsidy those apply to various gear purchases - folks won't mind paying more Dil for all their gear cause there's nobody out there complaining about Dil expenditure.
So yeah, the marks aren't benefiting us in any fashion - so we should just remove them...it's just pesky UI nonsense.
Virus... most of my DL comes from those marks. I'm a casual, not one of the people who have Dilithium coming out of their ears.
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I hope folks realize I was joking with that. Er...cause I was joking with that. I've noticed more and more complaints over the past few months that ignore stuff like that.
Speaking of that though...hopefully by the next Bonus Dil weekend they've got a slider set to 5000, 10000, or more for all those Delta Marks...lol.
To add to this, it doesn't make sense to have a universal mark anyway. Why should I be able to get stuff from the Omega reputation if all the work I did was with the Romulan reputation? If anything, we should be protesting the addition of more reputations instead of the expansion of existing ones. With each new reputation that's added, the old reputation content starts to become largely ignored because there's less reason to run it, which then makes it harder for newer players to do things in that reputation.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
Joking doesn't always translate in text form Virus. *shrug* And yea... I don't really stockpile marks for DL weekends BECAUSE we have to do 50 at a time. And I got ADD so you can imagine how that works out. :rolleyes:
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colored text = mod mode
My character Tsin'xing
But then they can't force people to play unpopular content!
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Thing was, I didn't have a solution to the problem of players running unassociated content to further progress in another Reputation Track. But now have a couple of ideas:
Universal Marks are earned on all current missions where Marks are available, but
1) Reputation projects that level up a Track would now also require running a Daily Mission as part of its input. Think "Explore Strange New Worlds" that required running 3 cluster missions to complete. Same here. Run X number of missions for a given Track before your project can complete. Perhaps the number of missions required increases as you level up.
or
2) Reputation Tracks automatically level up the more you play missions for a given Track. Again, with the number of required missions to level up increasing as you level up. Universal Marks are only used for the Equipment projects that are unlocked at each level.
With these suggestions, the time element that Cryptic wants is still involved, because content must be played in order to advance. Also, Track appropriate content must be played in order to advance a particular Track. But currency is streamlined, allowing further expansion to the Reputation System without its economy continuing to become convoluted and cumbersome.
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Joking or not, how I read that you do make several good points. Personally, I miss the convenience of trading in Borg Salvage (a single item with no added currencies) for the dilithium (or endgame weapons/equipment at no added dilithium cost) with a simple vendor UI rather than the slider/timer nonsense. I still question why the conversion wasn't an instantaneous purchase in the Rep Stores rather than a slide this, slide that, slide the other, wait 15 secs... unless the point is to have us waste time staring at the UI. :P
Nevertheless it does give us another method of acquiring dilithium, and does give us the handy Rep Crate projects. Those are positive aspects of the Rep System, as is the guarantee of getting x reward for y effort... even those who have offended the RNG in some manner are guaranteed to be able to gear up in the best toys.
Meh. It does provide useful resources, yet somehow it still doesn't feel as rewarding as when I finally completed my first MACO set... I freakin' earned that final piece. Well, maybe not as much as the folks that played the original full-versions of the STFs... :P
My problems with the system relate more to methodology rather than outcomes... though I always seemed to get more dilithium from turning in Borg bits than the current Rep System provides turning in Marks/BNP's. Then again, the base dilithium rewards were also higher before they tinkered with throwing huge amounts of dilithium into SB 24 and none in the STFs, then re-balanced things in response to player feedback and abandoned STFs (funny thing, the reward was still lower that it was originally).
I don't know if I can explain my stance in a manner that will carry through, but basically it boils down to a few simple questions:
I don't criticize aspects of a game I want to fail, I criticize aspects of a game I want to succeed by improving those things. Do you find sliders to be a fun and/or challenging game mechanic?
Cryptic punishes people who are too successful, and that has the trickle down effect to the people who are more casual who similarly get punished.
At one point I would agree with a "Universal Mark" system, but that is really just served by dilithium gains (you can convert marks into dilithium).
But no, I can't say I agree with another currency conversion after getting shafted by the dilithium conversion when the game went f2p. Maybe if they were more honest with their reasoning I could agree to another. But they weren't, so I'm not.
Hrm. Okay, you win. I still remember the conversion rate of the Prototype Borg Salvage when they created the Rep System... I REALLY should've cashed it in for dilithium. :P
Lol, I used to really hate checking back the next day only to realize that I hadn't quite dragged a slider all the way and was one off on something that I had plenty of...meh.
The game is either going to give me carpal tunnel syndrome from clicking and dragging my traits each time I want to do space to ground, or during dilithium weekend when I need to cash in 50 marks at a time.
The answer is probably less than 9000, but probably more than 90.
My character Tsin'xing
Would it really matter if there was?
The difference between 90 currencies and 9,000 currencies is pretty miniscule in terms of practical application.
And to put it back into perspective, the difference between a fresh level 50 being faced with 9 different currencies to gain or 90 different currencies to gain is equally daunting, and arguably unreasonable.
My character Tsin'xing
See, that I don't get. The thing I see as unreasonable about that would be the expectation that a MMO that's been around for some years would be the same as it was on the first day for the player coming along in year four to tackle as it was for the player in year one.
That expectation to have everything yesterday...when it could have taken years to reach that point. That's what I find unreasonable.
New player gets to 50...and they're looking at several reputations. It took folks some time to do them before them, it's going to take that player some time to do them. And with the way costs have been reduced, rewards increased, and the process refined over the years...it's actually going to be easier and faster for that new player anyway to do what the previous player had to do.
It's a case of complaining that there's too much to do in a game...so the opposite would be that there not be enough to do in the game?
I come to a game, see there's all these things that I might have to do - that shows me a game that's been growing, a game that's looking at a future, and a game that I might want to get involved with...I don't have a hissyfit that I can't have everything now.
You work in the changes to the Rep Traits, and Cryptic even tried to help folks out there - you can't slot all the traits, so you don't need all of it. There's not that feeling of having to do everything because you need everything. You can do what you want...enjoy the game...wheeeeee!
But no, some folks need to have everything...even if they have absolutely no need for it. Cause that's just how they are...
firstly they want you to play the events for the tokens be it winter or summer or indeed mirror or CE.
secondly the tokens you get for the events can only be used for those events and cannot sadly be exchanged for anything else where as rep marks can be exchanged for dilithium through the rep system projects.
I see no real reason to segregate the marks from normal reputations, I know they kind of want you to play the missions that are linked to those marks but that kind of goes out the window whenever they have a summer or winter event as you can raise tropical birds or winter epohh in exchange for any marks anyway so you have no need to play the respective missions if you are in no rush just wait till the next big event comes around or indeed play one of the many qued missions that offers a choice of marks if the mark you are after is among the ones you can choose from.
having said that I cant see the devs going for it at this point in time.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
You can argue that is how it currently is. Borg Neural Processors. Ancient Power Cells. Isomorphic Injections. Voth Cybernetic Implants.
Yes, you can argue that the marks themselves are in the assets tab and kept out of your inventory, but you can't say the same for the equivelant all I've pointed out. There are still currencies used for reputations which do take up inventory space.
And as time goes on, that number will only increase to scale.
I'm not trying to make that a talking point. I am saying, however, that it looks different to a new player than it does to people like us who actually get through reputation systems one at a time as a result of it naturally coming piecemeal.
I am saying that it can look extremely daunting when it's effectively the same reputation mechanic over and over again, rather than possibly something new.
This is especially apparent when queued events for unpopular/obsolete reputation currencies remain dead because everyone still playing has already gotten through those reputations, while the newest reputation currencies remain popular since that's where the new benchmark is.
That's easy to say when we've been getting through the reputations as they come out. Cryptic never really dropped them in bulk to us all at once. We've been playing the game for a while and to us it really seems like 1 new reputation system from time to time, with the others maxed out or whatnot -- and forgotten about entirely.
For a new player, not so much. To them it really does look like it's dropped in front of them in bulk.
Not really where I'm going with it. Because I also understand there needs to be a challenge to be worked with. I think the next part more effectively demonstrates what I'm trying to say.
The trait revamp/nerf was there because it wasn't 'infinitely scalable'. The difference between a new level 50 and a veteran level 50 was getting more ridiculous.
But the people who already got through all the reputation systems? Well, tough rocks. It's just another example of Cryptic's game design policies which punish players who are too successful and thus they feel the need to lower the bar for everyone.
My point is that with those trait changes, they didn't address one of the underlying issues of their rep system, which is people starting out at level 50? They feel overwhelmed by the gauntlet that needs to be run.
Whether you add 9 Reputation Systems or 90, at some point people are going to look at them and say... "How am I supposed to pick 4 traits/active traits from THAT?"
Also, bear in mind. While space/ground traits can be picked on personal taste (and thus, which reputation system(s) you want to have can be easier to choose), the active traits are not the case.
If you want 4 ground active traits, you are given a false choice. And eventually there will be a reputation system with a 4th active space trait, thus producing a false choice there as well.
Hypothetically, if Cryptic creates 90 rep systems, but still only lets you pick 4 traits, they actually end up wasting their own money and labor hours because their creations are not being enjoyed by their customers.
90 Rep Systems would basically see the same problem with starship interiors. Lots of work and effort put into them, but as a result of the cap? Not really being used by everyone.
For new players, this might be a good thing, since hey... you're still capped with which you can slot. But rep systems themselves aren't infinitely scalable, not just their active/passive powers.
If new players want to see growth in STO, the reputation mechanic is not a great way to go about it. Players want to see a beautiful landscape of growth and creativity, not a metastatic tumor that is sucking the resources out of the playerbase, and then spreads to another part of the system when the time/resources run dry in a particular piece of content.
We currently have Borg, Romulan, Nukara, Voth, Undine, and Delta reps... Imagine for a second what completing Rep sets would be like if each of them had 12 items to collect as part of getting gear.
My character Tsin'xing
As a child, I learned that if I did something for somebody I was generally rewarded for doing so in some way. Going to be 43 before Summer, and well...hrmm, yeah, it's still pretty much the same thing. You do something for somebody and you are generally rewarded for doing it. There might be all sorts of different things there, but along the way you're going to find there's only a few mechanics.
The reputation/reward system in this game is one of the least painful that I've come across...which fits with this being the most casual MMO that I've ever played.
And yes, when somebody doesn't need something and doesn't want to run something - then they might not queue for that something anymore. But wait, this is a MMO, right? There are other players? So it's entirely possible for folks to join things like Fleets and find others to go on runs with them to do things? Yes? Really? No lie?
Oh, but for that solo player that expects everything to be laid out just for them...yeah, the mods frown on folks mocking them too much.
Have you never rolled an alt? Hello? It's in bulk each and every time. My main character I'm running with now...was rolled for the DR launch...had to go through all of the Reps in bulk. I've rerolled so many toons, rolled so many alts, done it both with and without Sponsorship tokens.
With the daily boxes and so many options for how to get them...with them covering multiple days of slotting the projects...I just don't see having stuff to do as a problem.
Take a look at what other players have done and are doing...experiment around with what you're doing and what works for you? Keeping in mind the vast majority of "you" in this reply is a "them" and not specifically you. It's a game...play it. I really don't see the problem there.
This isn't a screensaver...it's a game.
You can have 4 Active traits, which are a mix of Ground and Space. At some point, there will be who knows how many ever Active traits available - there will be more than 4 of each, Ground and Space. You can have 4 Active traits...where is the false choice? Just because we don't have 9001 Reputations doesn't make it a false choice.
So you complain that they are not providing choice and then complain if they were to provide choice? How many ships have they created? Creating all but one ship was a waste of money? Cause somebody might fly that second ship instead of the first ship? Is it a case that nobody is going to fly that first ship? Or might folks still choose that first ship?
So far...I've seen complaints about Cryptic providing content and complaints about Cryptic giving players options. Need to stop that, that kind of stuff will go to their heads and we'll all be screwed.
Something doesn't have to be used by everyone...not everybody is going to want the same thing. Choices/options are good. We're not in some fascist or communist country without choice...
I see the reputation system as a beautiful landscape of growth and creativity...with each new reputation, I get new content - new ways to explore the game, new things to enjoy in the game - I get new gear options, new mechanics to explore - I get new traits, ways that I can potentially further refine my character - all sorts of different things that provide me additional fun things to do and fun options so I can separate tailor my character more and more to what I want.
I'm not saying the old system didn't suck (it did). I'm saying that right now what seems to be reasonable may not be to a new player, and if Cryptic continues the trend of simply cranking out new reputation systems, eventually new players will have to start collecting 12 items or more to get gear.
It's possible to find flaws in the old system and the current system. I like the current system better, to be sure, but I was anticipating reputation systems to act as timegates for something new and different to come along.
Instead they're timegates to put an artificial stopgap so they can create more timegates.
I see a problem with this strategy in terms of long-term sustainability and new player retention.