That site doesn't really like it when folks Hot Link it...
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
But yeah, I'm sure the devs watched that episode, but when the ship artists went to make the ship, they wouldn't have studied the few seconds' of footage in the episode. They would have gone for high-quality images of the ship on sites like this... and all of those appear to show the ship backwards.
WOW nobody should be defending Cryptic on this ,its there Business to not make this kind of mistake .
This is our hobby for our down time .not our profession . , some haven't watched every episode of all the series in yrs , players dont have the archive resources of CBS .
This is the DEVS profession , they have all the video footage and other internal information on the IP .
for them to Miss a oversight such as a ships Flying orientation is BIG thing . its one thing to get a smaller detail wrong , this isnt a small detail .
im sure the DEVS have a listing of what species appeared in what episodes . is it really that hard while designing a ship to watch the actual footage the ship is in ? to be honest this is the mistake of the ship art department and the Systems dept and the Q/A dept for not catching it . when 90% of your game is spent flying ships then you really should get Flying orientation correctly .
But yeah, I'm sure the devs watched that episode, but when the ship artists went to make the ship, they wouldn't have studied the few seconds' of footage in the episode. They would have gone for high-quality images of the ship on sites like this... and all of those appear to show the ship backwards.
The funny thing is, the more one might look a the images...imho...the more it looks like VOY did it wrong rather than anybody else. Of course, because they did it wrong - their wrong becomes right - but their right wrong still looks wrong.
WOW nobody should be defending Cryptic on this ,its there Business to not make this kind of mistake .
This is our hobby for our down time .not our profession . , some haven't watched every episode of all the series in yrs , players dont have the archive resources of CBS .
This is the DEVS profession , they have all the video footage and other internal information on the IP .
for them to Miss a oversight such as a ships Flying orientation is BIG thing . its one thing to get a smaller detail wrong , this isnt a small detail .
im sure the DEVS have a listing of what species appeared in what episodes . is it really that hard while designing a ship to watch the actual footage the ship is in ? to be honest this is the mistake of the ship art department and the Systems dept and the Q/A dept for not catching it . when 90% of your game is spent flying ships then you really should get Flying orientation correctly .
Look at the post above yours.
Why would they look at low res footage from Voyager, when they could look at High res images of the official model from other sources?
WOW nobody should be defending Cryptic on this ,its there Business to not make this kind of mistake .
This is our hobby for our down time .not our profession . , some haven't watched every episode of all the series in yrs , players dont have the archive resources of CBS .
This is the DEVS profession , they have all the video footage and other internal information on the IP.
Indeed. Cryptic gets *paid* to get it right. Not that I'm overly upset about it, mind you, but yeah, they did mess up a bit, lol.
Should be easy to fix the orientation of the ship in next patch, methinks. Not a big deal.
Should be easy to fix the orientation of the ship in next patch, methinks. Not a big deal.
Would be a major deal for me...I don't want the right wrong of VOY...I'd prefer the wrong right that Cryptic gave us. IMHO, the ship looks insertstringofexpletives wrong the other way.
Agreed. Drex would have had to label each part on his ship for us to have a clue, but the main problem is that the blue sphere could be their propulsion drive or the bridge. The propulsion drive could be in the front with the bridge just above it. After all, there is no reason why propulsion systems need to be in the back if they are not using newtonian physics. Even Federation Warp Drives could be placed in the front of the ship.
Looking over Drex's image I'm assuming that the glowing red bits near the blue sphere would be in back while the apparent weapon/antenna-like bits would be pointing forward and are on the other end.
Looking over Drex's image I'm assuming that the glowing red bits near the blue sphere would be in back while the apparent weapon/antenna-like bits would be pointing forward and are on the other end.
Well most people render their ships with the Front, well in the front..
I believe this amounts to what happened with the Constitution. Apparently, the Constitution is upside down according to the designer, but since the Constitution has been in a lot of Star Trek episodes, then the Constitution using the wrong orientation became the right orientation. The employees responsible for the ships got the orientation wrong for the Voyager episode. However, the Benthan ship was only used in one Voyager episode and for only about a minute. Therefore, the STO ship is right according to the designer and Voyager got it wrong. After all, it took 2 months for someone to notice that there was a mistake with the ship according to the Voyager episode.
Not sure why this is a big deal since Cryptic won't change the orientation. They might add a new customization where the orientation matches Voyager, but too many people like the current orientation.
I believe this amounts to what happened with the Constitution. Apparently, the Constitution is upside down according to the designer,
You've got your anecdotes a bit sideways.
It's the Miranda Class art concept from Star Trek II that was shown, and approved, upside down to the powers that be, so it was decided to actually use the model that way in the film
The Constitution Class is shown as intended.
"I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."
here is my view at looking at the DREX file . bethanlayout
with out a point of reference you really cant tell so you have to rely on "onscreen" sources of how it was used . cuz i see it one way you might see another . which is why for canon purposes you use "onscreen" sources .
I agree that is backwards but i have to say that it somehow looks correct. But the Benthan ship looks weird anyway,no matter if it flies backwards or not. Why did they take that ship? Why not a Kazon mothership or anything.
But maybe the Benthan ship can actaually fly in both directions. Why not? No one knows if a Borg ship flies forwards or backwards so maybe the benthan ships are the same
I believe this amounts to what happened with the Constitution. Apparently, the Constitution is upside down according to the designer, but since the Constitution has been in a lot of Star Trek episodes, then the Constitution using the wrong orientation became the right orientation. The employees responsible for the ships got the orientation wrong for the Voyager episode. However, the Benthan ship was only used in one Voyager episode and for only about a minute. Therefore, the STO ship is right according to the designer and Voyager got it wrong. After all, it took 2 months for someone to notice that there was a mistake with the ship according to the Voyager episode.
Not sure why this is a big deal since Cryptic won't change the orientation. They might add a new customization where the orientation matches Voyager, but too many people like the current orientation.
I believe this amounts to what happened with the Constitution. Apparently, the Constitution is upside down according to the designer,
You've got your anecdotes a bit sideways.
It's the Miranda Class art concept from Star Trek II that was shown, and approved, upside down to the powers that be, so it was decided to actually use the model that way in the film
The Constitution Class is shown as intended.
Actually...,
When Matt Jefferies first presented his drawings of the TOS Enterprise to Gene Roddenberry, he did have the saucer section on the bottom with the secondary hull above...
But it was sitting on Genes desk in a pile of other concept art and Gene first saw it upside down and approved it that way.
According to Matt, even though he pointed out the "correct" orientation later, Gene preferred it as he first saw it.
So that was how the model was created for the show.
I know of two sources for this, one is "The Making of Star Trek" book and the other is personal info...
I actually got to ask Mr. Roddenberry in person once, when he came to Union College here in Schenectady,NY to give a lecture about writing for TV and Star Trek back in 1981.
He also showed us the infamous Blooper-Reel, his favorite cut of the first pilot with Jeffery Hunter and answered a ton of questions about the making of The Motion Picture.
He even told us a little bit about what was going on with the second Trek movie.
(it didn't have an Official name yet)
One of the questions I asked him was could he tell us about how he came up with the design for the Enterprise.
He pointed out that the design was actually presented to him by one of the artists working on the show (he didn't mention Jefferies name) but that it was upside down when he first saw it and approved it.
He went on to tell us about how the two models were built and some of the problems they had trying to film them for the show.
It was quite an experience, it was very informal because we had a fairly large snowstorm the day before and even though it was a sold-out event, only about 15 people showed up.
I got his autograph, shook his hand and actually recorded about half of it with an old tape recorder.
It was this 23 year old Sci-Fi geeks, dream come true!
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Actually, when Matt Jefferies first presented his drawings of the TOS Enterprise to Gene Roddenberry, he did have the saucer section on the bottom with the secondary hull above...
But it was sitting on Genes desk in a pile of other concept art and Gene first saw it upside down and approved it that way.
According to Matt, even though he pointed out the "correct" orientation later, Gene preferred it as he first saw it.
So that was how the model was created for the show.
Not at all what happened."
When Gene and the NBC people came in I think there were about eight of them they did navigate to the color piece, and I said, 'Well, if you like that, how about the model,' and held it up," recalled Jefferies. "Gene took it by the string and immediately it flopped over, because the birch dowels were heavier! I had an awful time trying to unsell that. And, of course, when our first show hit the air and TV Guide came out, they ran a picture of the ship on the cover, upside down." (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 10, p. 26) The "unselling" Jefferies referred to stemmed from the fact that Roddenberry actually liked the upside down orientation. "I held it up and Gene took it by the string and it immediately flopped upside down. He liked that better. I didn't. That was one of our biggest arguments which I won."
"Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
Comments
That site doesn't really like it when folks Hot Link it...
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
My character Tsin'xing
Cryptic gets *paid* to notice, we do not.
Direct links to images on Ex Astris are bad. Here's a link that should work. I hope.
But yeah, I'm sure the devs watched that episode, but when the ship artists went to make the ship, they wouldn't have studied the few seconds' of footage in the episode. They would have gone for high-quality images of the ship on sites like this... and all of those appear to show the ship backwards.
This is our hobby for our down time .not our profession . , some haven't watched every episode of all the series in yrs , players dont have the archive resources of CBS .
This is the DEVS profession , they have all the video footage and other internal information on the IP .
for them to Miss a oversight such as a ships Flying orientation is BIG thing . its one thing to get a smaller detail wrong , this isnt a small detail .
im sure the DEVS have a listing of what species appeared in what episodes . is it really that hard while designing a ship to watch the actual footage the ship is in ? to be honest this is the mistake of the ship art department and the Systems dept and the Q/A dept for not catching it . when 90% of your game is spent flying ships then you really should get Flying orientation correctly .
The devs have watched star trek.
I'm sure when they modelled it they just looked up Screencaps, a lot easier then just watching an episode.
Even the Official "Star Trek Fact Files" and Doug Drexler's Blog has it facing the "wrong way".
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/delta1.htm#benthan
Considering Doug was a VFX guy on Voyager, I don't think he would have got it wrong. Maybe it was the show that got it wrong.
The funny thing is, the more one might look a the images...imho...the more it looks like VOY did it wrong rather than anybody else. Of course, because they did it wrong - their wrong becomes right - but their right wrong still looks wrong.
Look at the post above yours.
Why would they look at low res footage from Voyager, when they could look at High res images of the official model from other sources?
Indeed. Cryptic gets *paid* to get it right. Not that I'm overly upset about it, mind you, but yeah, they did mess up a bit, lol.
Should be easy to fix the orientation of the ship in next patch, methinks. Not a big deal.
Would be a major deal for me...I don't want the right wrong of VOY...I'd prefer the wrong right that Cryptic gave us. IMHO, the ship looks insertstringofexpletives wrong the other way.
Plus, you know, they'd have to watch Voyager. I can't fault them for not doing that, really. :P
My character Tsin'xing
... and to be honest it's hard to tell
Looking at those images I'd basically have to guess which end was the front.
I'm guessing the end with the blue sphere underneath is the engine section and is the back, but that's the best I've got.
That's the equivalent of Will Smif saying "Welcome to Earf!" after punching the alien, so I'm ok with that... :P
Agreed. Drex would have had to label each part on his ship for us to have a clue, but the main problem is that the blue sphere could be their propulsion drive or the bridge. The propulsion drive could be in the front with the bridge just above it. After all, there is no reason why propulsion systems need to be in the back if they are not using newtonian physics. Even Federation Warp Drives could be placed in the front of the ship.
Well most people render their ships with the Front, well in the front..
because high res renders right from the source are better resources to model from.
Not sure why this is a big deal since Cryptic won't change the orientation. They might add a new customization where the orientation matches Voyager, but too many people like the current orientation.
with out a point of reference you really cant tell so you have to rely on "onscreen" sources of how it was used . cuz i see it one way you might see another . which is why for canon purposes you use "onscreen" sources .
But maybe the Benthan ship can actaually fly in both directions. Why not? No one knows if a Borg ship flies forwards or backwards so maybe the benthan ships are the same
Actually...,
When Matt Jefferies first presented his drawings of the TOS Enterprise to Gene Roddenberry, he did have the saucer section on the bottom with the secondary hull above...
But it was sitting on Genes desk in a pile of other concept art and Gene first saw it upside down and approved it that way.
According to Matt, even though he pointed out the "correct" orientation later, Gene preferred it as he first saw it.
So that was how the model was created for the show.
I know of two sources for this, one is "The Making of Star Trek" book and the other is personal info...
I actually got to ask Mr. Roddenberry in person once, when he came to Union College here in Schenectady,NY to give a lecture about writing for TV and Star Trek back in 1981.
He also showed us the infamous Blooper-Reel, his favorite cut of the first pilot with Jeffery Hunter and answered a ton of questions about the making of The Motion Picture.
He even told us a little bit about what was going on with the second Trek movie.
(it didn't have an Official name yet)
One of the questions I asked him was could he tell us about how he came up with the design for the Enterprise.
He pointed out that the design was actually presented to him by one of the artists working on the show (he didn't mention Jefferies name) but that it was upside down when he first saw it and approved it.
He went on to tell us about how the two models were built and some of the problems they had trying to film them for the show.
It was quite an experience, it was very informal because we had a fairly large snowstorm the day before and even though it was a sold-out event, only about 15 people showed up.
I got his autograph, shook his hand and actually recorded about half of it with an old tape recorder.
It was this 23 year old Sci-Fi geeks, dream come true!
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion