This game like most mmo's makes most of their money from a small part of the player base. Hence the term whales.
See normally when a game ticks of most of the player base, people leave the game and the whales who spent most of the money on the game loose those players as content. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U at about the 2 minute mark. the whole video is good though.
The oddest thing about this game however is most people don't leave but instead just say they won't be spending any more money on it. That is okay to cryptic because they make most of the money from the whales and as long as people stay and refuse to pay they remain content for those whales.
This is one of those instances where the consumer dollar has no power of sway over the company because your participation still have value to those who spend stupids amount of money.
As long as people stay paying or not Cryptic wins.
How long until everyone with a sarcastic forum signature quits? Never. They'll never quit. They're so invested in the game, that they continue to post on the forums and create signatures, and make petitions, etc. They'll never leave, they're far too heavily invested, and they care too much.
Funny you say that. I quit (uninstalled and unsubbed) over a month ago. In the mean time I've been giving my time and money to SWTOR, and recently bought into Elite:Dangerous so I'll be giving that a go in a few days time.
I keep checking in here daily for the reasons you've stated funnily enough. I do care about this game because at one point in time I enjoyed it a lot and did put a fair bit of money into it. I keep checking in hoping things will change so I can get back to playing it, but PWE/Cryptic have made very little headway in that regard.
As far as the longevity of this game, if the devs share your attitude, then I fear it will be a year to 2 years at best.
Head in the sand "you'll won't leave" mentality is fine when you have the product to back up the attitude, and the player numbers to support it, but it's clear through in game experience (dead fleets and queues), and metrics (Steam Charts showing a very steady decline since DR), that the game isn't keeping players playing as much anymore.
There's no shortage of answers on these forums as to why this is. Someone at Cryptic/PWE needs to act on this information or the game's duration will sadly be much shorter than it could be.
Personally, I don't think this game is going anywhere. Have they maybe now seen more of a dive in profit than expected off the back of DR? Yes, I suspect so. But that won't be enough to sink the game. The IP is strong, the fans are loyal. They'll have taken a stumble perhaps but not nearly enough to sink STO.
Given the changes that have happened post-DR and even before, how much time can STO affectedly sustain a playbase that keep it afloat financial wise before no one is playing the game buying things to keep the game from going bankrupt like many other MMOs?
NOTE: Please keep it CLEAN and respectful. I am trying to get feedback from people who have invested heavily into the game and would like to know from them where they think the game is heading in the future. This is NOT a dig at Cryptic/Perfect World. I am not directing this at any specific party.
UPDATE1: Yes I know some of you think this is a DOOM thread but it isn't. We all know the game will end eventually. The point of this is to get feedback from people as to how long they think the game has left before the game does shutdown given the state of the game currently.
Well in a awkward kind of way, this is technically a doom thread as you speak of the ending of Star Trek Online. The truth is, the game has longevity for many years to come, that's because it is well received abroad, outside the U.S. The German population alone can attest to that, as the Star Trek theme is forever popular in Germany.
Here in the United States you have your niche crowd which consist of older Trekkies and your newer generation trek fans. The game is F2P so it gives it even more staying power. However; that being said, who is to say that:
A) PWE pull the plug when they deem the game no longer profitable to them, costing them more money to keep it going.
CBS does not renew the license - remember what is sustaining STO alive is the fact that it has the Trek name and lore behind it.
and lastly there is option [C] which everyone is hoping for -
C) A better gaming company obtains the license to Star Trek and create another Star Trek Online game that is superior in every way to the one that is presently being offered through Cryptic Studios.
Star Wars fans aren't like Star Trek fans, they don't obsess about minutia about continuity or the technology, they just want a fun space adventure movie.
Might want to head over to any Star Wars forum and see just how many obsessive fans came out of the woodwork because the 1 lightsaber shown in the trailer had a energy blade crossguard on it...
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Games population numbers are high. Plenty of players investing a lot of seat time. Money is coming in though the rate of gain may have dropped. A whole lot of people are enjoying playing STO, but a growing number are dissatisfied.
The players oriented as KDF purests have pretty much dropped off the map after years of disappointment. Go look at the KDF play and ship forums. The numbers of posts in those forums has dropped in the bucket... HARD. The KDF fans have given up for the most part. They've also stopped spending money.
the number was bandied about for three years that KDF players made up around 18% of the player base. Well, More player play KDF today then did three years ago, but I got a gut feeling they don't spend all that much.
I do know that far to many of the old guard KDF players have left and gone on to other games. They have given up on ever seeing what they expected to see for KDF play in STO.
Few of them post any more, much less play. Whats the point for them? They don't have a story arc that makes sense. All of their mission content in end game is second fiddle to the federation, and from what I've seen of Delta Rising as a KDF player.... well, in a word,, "Blek!"
I no longer have a clue as to where STO is going, or how long the game may last in the market place, but it does NOT feel like trek.
I know I do not like the direction the game has gone, and its not any one thing. STO's original development was rushed. The studio had a dead line of release by x date or loose the IP rights. Cryptic did what it had to do, and launched with major portions of the game unfinished, or kluged together sufficient to work untill changes could be made. The first year of the game money was phenomenally tight with very little left over. Cryptic did what it could. PWI came in and purchased the studio and title from the original owners (saving both them and STO... at the rate things were going STO would have all ready have gone poof if they had not come along). So much has been left by the way side over the last 5 years. The game experience has suffered because of it.
Can it be fixed? You bet yer starship it can be fixed! Will it be fixed? Not from what I can see. Best to start over, maintain the current STO, and CRAFT a better STO on the side using existing assets and talent. Much will be the same, but much can be rationalized and improved.
Keep the existing revenue stream. Go nuts with the existing product... and use it as a test bed for what is included in a BETTER STO. WHo knows, maybe even keep it around. NCSofts Guild Wars 2 and Lineage-II prove that a MMO can be rebooted and improved. (and yes, keep the old STO... the original Lineage is NCSofts TOP money maker. They don't develop much for it any more, but it still exists and brings in the cash)
This game wont end any time near soon. The last expansion & elachi ship sales prove the correct financial decision, making this game free to play and pay to win.
And to be honest, its not their fault, that people are willing to pay huge amounts to have the most recent OP shiny stuff.
I remember the first seasons, were there was no need to grind whole day. Your class and team composition was of importance. This proofed to be not profitable enough.
As far as i am concerned, after conversion into p2w i took a pause. Returned now to check out the new content, and scrap the game again for a year or two.
Given the changes that have happened post-DR and even before, how much time can STO affectedly sustain a playbase that keep it afloat financial wise before no one is playing the game buying things to keep the game from going bankrupt like many other MMOs?
NOTE: Please keep it CLEAN and respectful. I am trying to get feedback from people who have invested heavily into the game and would like to know from them where they think the game is heading in the future. This is NOT a dig at Cryptic/Perfect World. I am not directing this at any specific party.
UPDATE1: Yes I know some of you think this is a DOOM thread but it isn't. We all know the game will end eventually. The point of this is to get feedback from people as to how long they think the game has left before the game does shutdown given the state of the game currently.
note: entitlement claims, will probably be ignored again, your choice if you put money into it, its not a right or an obligation to yourself or the developer, your just a customer, you have no say in what they do.
update1: it is a doom thread because your predicting when sto will end, that doom thread was setup because of that exact reason and that in your first sentence.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I prescribe to classical reasoning 10 year shelf life - we are nearing the half life then (5 yr) however if the game develops properly, new content is satisfying and perhaps an enhancement to the usage of the foundry content created (perhaps a polishing by devs etc) the game could have a vastly longer lifespan than other MMOs.. Look at D2 LOD for instance.. Obsolete by every gaming standard but second to none in replay and loyalty.. Due in large part to its vast numbers of in game earn-able items and various builds, specialization and customization...
I'm perhaps more hopeful that this IP will be in Cryptics hands for the long-term.
As it stands today, I'm not playing as much as I have in previous years, and it's not from a lack of trying or for that matter spending. I dropped more on this game in the past 2 months than I have in the past 2 years, primarily due to the anticipation of good quality content, new things to do with my friends, and STO being a place I can unwind after work.
Delta Rising did give us great content.
The rollout of the new meta changes were extremely unfriendly to players, and at times confusing for even the hard core players. The lack of communication followed by name calling from the EP drove what i saw as a growing divide between the people who earn money from the license, and those of us who pay to play with the license.
My first posts were balanced. As it felt like we were at times screaming in the vacuum of space, those posts and replies became more focused, targeting what we still see as flaws in the design.
Cryptics response was to put out fires, then it seemed to give up, resigned that the vocal component of the community as a whole would eventually tire themselves out.
Small but noticeable changes have been made. In Cryptics defense, they are still looking at it as a whole.
Its for that reason and Gecko's lengthy discussion in the 200th podcast for PriorityOne that I'm still here. Whether I continue to pay and play will be based on whether there are other people to play with.
This license has been profitable for PWE. It's not up for renewal for 'some time'. It's hard to imagine that even with the problems paying players have had to deal with, that this license ever leaving Cryptic's hands.
Star Wars fans aren't like Star Trek fans, they don't obsess about minutia about continuity or the technology, they just want a fun space adventure movie.
Are you aware of how badly that describes the internet's collective/mob opinion of the prequels?
Fans are fans. Whatever the circumstances of the franchise are they are inescapably fanatics, and so prone to use the same extreme rhetorical methods to pursue their interests (ex. whining for the sake of it.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This game will not be dying any time soon.
See normally when a game ticks of most of the player base, people leave the game and the whales who spent most of the money on the game loose those players as content. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U at about the 2 minute mark. the whole video is good though.
As long as people stay paying or not Cryptic wins.
This clip hits the nail on the head. Cryptic crossed the described moral line long ago. Additionally and much worse: they made this game a casino.
(@5:10 - "... intentionally exploiting the worst parts of the human psychic")
And Cryptic is the bank, and the bank always wins.
People will leave, other people will join and won't know any better, whales (mugs) will keep pouring money in and the game will keep going.... Also you get those people that play it because it's Star Trek..... These are the same people that would buy a dog TRIBBLE if you put a Star Trek label on it.
I'm actually pretty good at this sort of thing. Back in the day, I predicted STO had no more than a year, two if they were lucky. PWE intervened within that timeframe, so I feel pretty secure that my prediction would have been pretty much spot on.
I predicted the end of Galaxies
Did you predict that Galaxies would be closed shortly before the release of TOR?
Or did you just predict doom for as long as you could and at some point, it actually happened, and that was your proof?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
This clip hits the nail on the head. Cryptic crossed the described moral line long ago. Additionally and much worse: they made this game a casino.
(@5:10 - "... intentionally exploiting the worst parts of the human psychic")
And Cryptic is the bank, and the bank always wins.
This part sounded like it was made for DR : 4m39.
If you hear Geko talking, he is not talking much about what's fun and whatnot. He is talking about how to monetize, how they did more money, how their metric say that and that.
Some Cryptic's dev still have passion about their work, and try genuinely to make us having fun. Taco or Kestrel for example. When they interact with us, they talk about fun and all, or how they enjoyed doing something. But they are not the head of Cryptic.
As for paid items that are not real and not even permanent in the game, well, I would point out the T5, that are now more and more becoming obsolete with the T6. And soon, the FT6.
I don't think the game will die soon. But if they continue that path, it will, sooner or later.
Why not have a change of management and whoever is at the top of the food chain, raking in the money, hand control over to the people posting in the forums, with ideas that would please everyone...money in their pocket and a game that no one can complain about?
Comments
This game like most mmo's makes most of their money from a small part of the player base. Hence the term whales.
See normally when a game ticks of most of the player base, people leave the game and the whales who spent most of the money on the game loose those players as content. Please see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U at about the 2 minute mark. the whole video is good though.
The oddest thing about this game however is most people don't leave but instead just say they won't be spending any more money on it. That is okay to cryptic because they make most of the money from the whales and as long as people stay and refuse to pay they remain content for those whales.
This is one of those instances where the consumer dollar has no power of sway over the company because your participation still have value to those who spend stupids amount of money.
As long as people stay paying or not Cryptic wins.
Funny you say that. I quit (uninstalled and unsubbed) over a month ago. In the mean time I've been giving my time and money to SWTOR, and recently bought into Elite:Dangerous so I'll be giving that a go in a few days time.
I keep checking in here daily for the reasons you've stated funnily enough. I do care about this game because at one point in time I enjoyed it a lot and did put a fair bit of money into it. I keep checking in hoping things will change so I can get back to playing it, but PWE/Cryptic have made very little headway in that regard.
As far as the longevity of this game, if the devs share your attitude, then I fear it will be a year to 2 years at best.
Head in the sand "you'll won't leave" mentality is fine when you have the product to back up the attitude, and the player numbers to support it, but it's clear through in game experience (dead fleets and queues), and metrics (Steam Charts showing a very steady decline since DR), that the game isn't keeping players playing as much anymore.
There's no shortage of answers on these forums as to why this is. Someone at Cryptic/PWE needs to act on this information or the game's duration will sadly be much shorter than it could be.
It makes sense from a player's perspective to get a LTS account in the first year of the game but after that I dont see the appeal.
you get a quick one time infusion of revenue from LTS sales but after, you arent garanteed that any of those players will keep spending in the game.
I purchased the LTS before launch and havent spent any additional money since then.
If you think about it, PWE has not seen a dime from me ever since Atari / Cryptic got my money for the LTS.
Well in a awkward kind of way, this is technically a doom thread as you speak of the ending of Star Trek Online. The truth is, the game has longevity for many years to come, that's because it is well received abroad, outside the U.S. The German population alone can attest to that, as the Star Trek theme is forever popular in Germany.
Here in the United States you have your niche crowd which consist of older Trekkies and your newer generation trek fans. The game is F2P so it gives it even more staying power. However; that being said, who is to say that:
A) PWE pull the plug when they deem the game no longer profitable to them, costing them more money to keep it going.
and lastly there is option [C] which everyone is hoping for -
C) A better gaming company obtains the license to Star Trek and create another Star Trek Online game that is superior in every way to the one that is presently being offered through Cryptic Studios.
Might want to head over to any Star Wars forum and see just how many obsessive fans came out of the woodwork because the 1 lightsaber shown in the trailer had a energy blade crossguard on it...
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
Games population numbers are high. Plenty of players investing a lot of seat time. Money is coming in though the rate of gain may have dropped. A whole lot of people are enjoying playing STO, but a growing number are dissatisfied.
The players oriented as KDF purests have pretty much dropped off the map after years of disappointment. Go look at the KDF play and ship forums. The numbers of posts in those forums has dropped in the bucket... HARD. The KDF fans have given up for the most part. They've also stopped spending money.
the number was bandied about for three years that KDF players made up around 18% of the player base. Well, More player play KDF today then did three years ago, but I got a gut feeling they don't spend all that much.
I do know that far to many of the old guard KDF players have left and gone on to other games. They have given up on ever seeing what they expected to see for KDF play in STO.
Few of them post any more, much less play. Whats the point for them? They don't have a story arc that makes sense. All of their mission content in end game is second fiddle to the federation, and from what I've seen of Delta Rising as a KDF player.... well, in a word,, "Blek!"
I no longer have a clue as to where STO is going, or how long the game may last in the market place, but it does NOT feel like trek.
I know I do not like the direction the game has gone, and its not any one thing. STO's original development was rushed. The studio had a dead line of release by x date or loose the IP rights. Cryptic did what it had to do, and launched with major portions of the game unfinished, or kluged together sufficient to work untill changes could be made. The first year of the game money was phenomenally tight with very little left over. Cryptic did what it could. PWI came in and purchased the studio and title from the original owners (saving both them and STO... at the rate things were going STO would have all ready have gone poof if they had not come along). So much has been left by the way side over the last 5 years. The game experience has suffered because of it.
Can it be fixed? You bet yer starship it can be fixed! Will it be fixed? Not from what I can see. Best to start over, maintain the current STO, and CRAFT a better STO on the side using existing assets and talent. Much will be the same, but much can be rationalized and improved.
Keep the existing revenue stream. Go nuts with the existing product... and use it as a test bed for what is included in a BETTER STO. WHo knows, maybe even keep it around. NCSofts Guild Wars 2 and Lineage-II prove that a MMO can be rebooted and improved. (and yes, keep the old STO... the original Lineage is NCSofts TOP money maker. They don't develop much for it any more, but it still exists and brings in the cash)
Khemaraa sends
And to be honest, its not their fault, that people are willing to pay huge amounts to have the most recent OP shiny stuff.
I remember the first seasons, were there was no need to grind whole day. Your class and team composition was of importance. This proofed to be not profitable enough.
As far as i am concerned, after conversion into p2w i took a pause. Returned now to check out the new content, and scrap the game again for a year or two.
Happy grinding all.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
note: entitlement claims, will probably be ignored again, your choice if you put money into it, its not a right or an obligation to yourself or the developer, your just a customer, you have no say in what they do.
update1: it is a doom thread because your predicting when sto will end, that doom thread was setup because of that exact reason and that in your first sentence.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As it stands today, I'm not playing as much as I have in previous years, and it's not from a lack of trying or for that matter spending. I dropped more on this game in the past 2 months than I have in the past 2 years, primarily due to the anticipation of good quality content, new things to do with my friends, and STO being a place I can unwind after work.
Delta Rising did give us great content.
The rollout of the new meta changes were extremely unfriendly to players, and at times confusing for even the hard core players. The lack of communication followed by name calling from the EP drove what i saw as a growing divide between the people who earn money from the license, and those of us who pay to play with the license.
My first posts were balanced. As it felt like we were at times screaming in the vacuum of space, those posts and replies became more focused, targeting what we still see as flaws in the design.
Cryptics response was to put out fires, then it seemed to give up, resigned that the vocal component of the community as a whole would eventually tire themselves out.
Small but noticeable changes have been made. In Cryptics defense, they are still looking at it as a whole.
Its for that reason and Gecko's lengthy discussion in the 200th podcast for PriorityOne that I'm still here. Whether I continue to pay and play will be based on whether there are other people to play with.
This license has been profitable for PWE. It's not up for renewal for 'some time'. It's hard to imagine that even with the problems paying players have had to deal with, that this license ever leaving Cryptic's hands.
Are you aware of how badly that describes the internet's collective/mob opinion of the prequels?
Fans are fans. Whatever the circumstances of the franchise are they are inescapably fanatics, and so prone to use the same extreme rhetorical methods to pursue their interests (ex. whining for the sake of it.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
This clip hits the nail on the head. Cryptic crossed the described moral line long ago. Additionally and much worse: they made this game a casino.
(@5:10 - "... intentionally exploiting the worst parts of the human psychic")
And Cryptic is the bank, and the bank always wins.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
Or did you just predict doom for as long as you could and at some point, it actually happened, and that was your proof?
If you hear Geko talking, he is not talking much about what's fun and whatnot. He is talking about how to monetize, how they did more money, how their metric say that and that.
Some Cryptic's dev still have passion about their work, and try genuinely to make us having fun. Taco or Kestrel for example. When they interact with us, they talk about fun and all, or how they enjoyed doing something. But they are not the head of Cryptic.
As for paid items that are not real and not even permanent in the game, well, I would point out the T5, that are now more and more becoming obsolete with the T6. And soon, the FT6.
I don't think the game will die soon. But if they continue that path, it will, sooner or later.