True, but I take issue with the language used. There are a lot of posts that do use garbage language. And I always refer back to the hate thrown at Tacofangs for his work on the Club as a prime example of that...
I may or may not be a CDFer, I'm not sure... I'm CDF in the sense that I say good things about the game I enjoy, but I'm just as likely to complain in the Romulan forums about not enough faction ships, or post in the bug forum about a problem. Thing is, I don't spew hate when I do it, and I subscribe to the thread to I can see when the devs reply and thank them for taking the time to listen.
If you don't like the game and someone else is fine with it, you certainly don't want Cryptic to hear his voice - they might not change what you dislike!
So everything needs to be done to make differing opinions seem questionable and irrational.
Which is exactly the same tactic used by those who disagree with complaints whether valid or invalid. There are a whole slew of valid complaints regarding the changes made with DR. Some are eloquently put, others not so, but the validity of the point is still there.
However a lot of the CDF types come in with a singular ideaology that they then prescribe to everyone like Medication or Kool-Aid.
Thing is this change in style which has dramatically reduced a lot of peoples enjoyment of the game, will result in losses for Cryptic. Short term they gained a lot with the DR sales and C-Store purchases initially. Long term will be different. Geko's announcement of "Best release Evar!!!!" relating to the largest purchase day on record for the game reminded me of Robbie Williams when he came out after signing a contract and just yelled "I'm Rich" at the crowd of journalist's. If Robbie looked like a total TRIBBLE then, what does Geko look like...
I guess I have a problem with things when something doesn't meet it's potential. STO has the potential to be a really good social game as well as a solo game. However that potential just highlight's the current failures even moreso. Probably doesn't help that I've modded games for over a decade now (specifically balance related in most cases) and I can see the errors and failures plain as day. Worse is when you can see solution's to them, yet all that happens is people call you names for trying to point them out.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
But, haters gonna hate, and suddenly this thread about enjoying DR has essentially become a PvP zone.
See, there's the problem again. Haters gonna hate? You're just ignoring everyone's complaints and grouping everyone not happy as a haters. That is the CDF way.
You asked if you were a member of the CDF or not, well I will say your application is being approved as we speak.
And this thread wasn't started to show how happy he/she is with DR, it was flame bait, causing the PVP.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
EDIT: also thanks solomace, I didn't know exactly what CDF stood for either. I figured it was "Cryptic DeFenders" or something to that effect.
LoL okay now we know what this means. (I dont 'defend' anything) Anyhow all I could think of was KDF didnt get the C part. Anyhow I have given feedback and some of it has been negative, but people see what they want to see. I post suggestions on things quite often lol. I just dont ooze hate so if that makes me some kind of bad thing that is fine.
My suggestions on what they need to do to fix some things can be found on this very forum. I dont ooze hate though I believe at the end of the day that everyone is a human being and should be treated as such and with some minimal level of courtesy and respect and that includes the people building this game who work long and hard hours and try to build a game and keep it working 24/7 within the constraints of what can be done to keep the lights on. I also dont run under the assumption that everything they do has some "evil plan" behind it lol. It is again counter productive to their goal of making an entertainment product. (its also tin foil hat territory and I hate tinfoil hats )
There are people who have posted that the devs actually hate the players and are even trying to get them to not play lol. Now how on earth would this produce the desired effects of making a game that at the end of the day has to create enough revenue to keep things going and pay the paycheques of the people building the game lol.
By the way I consider the free-to-play model the worste thing ever created in gaming I would prefer everyone pay a subscription but free-to-play has despite my dislike of the model taken hold and until it collapses under its own weight and the industry swings another direction its here to stay. It has proven to be a better financial way to run a game then the subscription based model which many companies still include on the side for us people who refuse to partake in the cash shop frenzy but there is more business to be had with that cash shop model due to the fact that micro transactions are now macro transactions lol. It does keep games running though I give them that so at the end of the day (for now) its a necessary evil to keep games running which take years before they can even turn a profit because of the R&D lag time required to build them and launch them in a playable state.
See, there's the problem again. Haters gonna hate? You're just ignoring everyone's complaints and grouping everyone not happy as a haters. That is the CDF way.
You asked if you were a member of the CDF or not, well I will say your application is being approved as we speak.
And this thread wasn't started to show how happy he/she is with DR, it was flame bait, causing the PVP.
dude your lumping everyone who has something positive to say as CDF. So pot meet kettle
You do have to admit that reading the forum now is just one giant hatefest and anyone who has anything nice to say gets pigeonholed as some kind of bad thing so hate me for liking the content release all you like at least I know when to stop playing a game and go elsewhere
PvP hasn't gotten any better for STO, unfortunately. But I found that I like doing the new stuff, that I still love blowing up starships. But if it stops being fun, be it because it has become repetitive or Cryptic removes things or adds barriers - I can leave again. There are other things I could do with my time.
This is why I left actually I was originally KDF only at the time the game was released the only way to level a klingon was by PvP it was very fun and I really enjoyed it but eventually it became unfun as they "fixed" things. I just left one day poof lol and now I come back there is lots of content that is fun to do even though there is no PvP in this game that is dead and something that one has to realize is not ever going to be a part of this game again. So I Play what I like and probably by the time a year has gone by I will have had my fill and just move on.
Delta Rising put me in a really uncomfortable spot. I like the intel powers and Boffs, I like the specializations, and I like the new story missions. BUT I hate what they did to the grind. I'm a more casual player, I just want a fun Star Trek game, and grinding the same patrol fifty times to go up a level just isn't fun for me.
That's not what finally got me to leave though, I left for about a month because of the devs' response. Don't like the grind? Too bad, have an XP nerf! Don't think it's the best expansion ever? Well you're wrong because it made us a truckload of money, fun doesn't matter!
So I put in my little two cents in and left for other games. Now however it's the winter event, and I can't resist the sirens' call of snowball fights, cartoon yetis, and saving helpless gingerbread men. I'm back, I'm having fun, but it's mostly not with Delta Rising. I'll run a mission every now and then, I do still need to get my mains to level 60, but it's by no means the reason I log on.
Once the winter event is over I'll probably go back to playing other games and not getting on STO very much, if at all. And you know what? That makes me kind of sad because I really WANT to like Delta Rising, but I can't bring myself to really have fun with it.
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
dude your lumping everyone who has something positive to say as CDF. So pot meet kettle
Not at all m8. To be part of the CDF takes a lot and I mean a lot of sucking up, belittling, shouting down and a general nothing is wrong with the game attitude. That makes you part of the CDF. Not every one who is positive is is made an honorary member straight away;)
Nothing wrong with being positive, it's the I'm happy and if your not leave that I have a problem with.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
The problem is, every time someone (stoleviathan, myself, and several others) try to elevate the discussion, someone tosses in an obligatory "if you guys hate the game why do you even play? get out of the forums and go do something else!"
And if you look in several of the DR threads, the conversation remained completely civil up until someone decided to tell everyone who has a problem with the changes to effectively sod off.
That in turn has created vitriol on the part of the less patient people who have problems with DR and PWE in general, and led to a devolution of several of the more germane threads on the issues.
I and many others have said this many times in the last few days -
Those of us who have problems with the changes in and leading up to DR love the game. We love it so much that to see it being destroyed, bit by bit, and being turned into a Candy Crush clone, is disturbing. We don't want it to fail. We want it to pull back from the abyss and be the Star Trek game is has a right to be. But, based on the hate, threats, and insanity being directed back at us, I get the feeling that it will continue to be Farmville, Phasers on Full Edition.
So yeah, keep on telling us we hate the game. If you say that enough, you just might make it true.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Not at all m8. To be part of the CDF takes a lot and I mean a lot of sucking up, belittling, shouting down and a general nothing is wrong with the game attitude. That makes you part of the CDF. Not every one who is positive is is made an honorary member straight away;)
Nothing wrong with being positive, it's the I'm happy and if your not leave that I have a problem with.
WelL i have not belittled anyone, shouted anyone down or anything I just made an observation some people by the way they post depict this game as sheer drugery and work as if its some sort of mandatory thing like work or school (if you read my original post). I had a conversation with someone ingame about the obvious pain these people seemed to be in and i wondered why they simply do not leave as they are obviously very stressed and very unhappy and its not healthy for you to do this to yourself. Leisure time should be fun and leisurely leave the pain and drudgery for work or school (although I loved university I couldn't get enough of it lol I hate my work though.)
It was an observation based on many of the responses I have seen on this forum and in this thread because the popular thing to do at the moment is to dislike the expansion. If you like it your some kind of mutant crazy person
People just don't seem to comprehend the fact that I complain about issues with the game because I actually LIKE the game. Like I've said before, when people can find no valid counter-argument or explanation for the issues I raise they usually say one of the following straw-man comments:
1) Only 3% of players use the forums. Everyone else is enjoying the game.
2) If you don't like the game don't play.
3) I enjoy the game, it's your problem if you don't.
To which I'd like to reply:
1) Show me the numbers on this?
2) If everyone who has issues with the game stops playing, it'll be pretty lonely in there for you.
3) If I'm a chef and some of my customers don't like my food after I've changed the recipe, am I supposed to blame the customers or do I take responsibility myself?
Okay, this whole argument over whose side is more annoying is honestly not accomplishing anything. Why not just agree to disagree, group hug wince we all like the game on some level and want it to do well, and bombard the devs with ideas on how to fix the problems people are having with the game. Throw enough at the wall and something will stick, right?
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
People just don't seem to comprehend the fact that I complain about issues with the game because I actually LIKE the game. Like I've said before, when people can find no valid counter-argument or explanation for the issues I raise they usually say one of the following straw-man comments:
1) Only 3% of players use the forums. Everyone else is enjoying the game.
Show me the numbers on this?
try counting the number of active posters on this forum if this is more then 3% then this game would be bankrupt but generally the rule of thumb is usually 1-5% of people do post and most people post for a time and get tired of it and stop and just play
2) If you don't like the game don't play.
If everyone who has issues with the game stops playing, it'll be pretty lonely in there for you
-why would you do something you hate this seems like some sort of punishment and on top of it you pay for this torture.
-If people stopped playing the game would close down and it would not exist so hence the very existance of the game means that there are enough people playing it and enjoying it to keep it running and give the company enough money to make more content and even an expansion (well hopefully they are not torturing themselves although some of the responses make me wonder lol)
3) I enjoy the game, it's your problem if you don't.
If I'm a chef and some of my customers don't like my food after I've changed the recipe, am I supposed to blame the customers or do I take responsibility myself?
this one I dont get are you saying that its my problem if you dont like the game?
If I dont like french food and your a chef who only makes french food is it your fault I hate french food? or do you simply accept that not everyone likes french food and suggest they eat at the italian restaurant down the street?
try counting the number of active posters on this forum is this is more then 3% then this game would be bankrupt but generally the rule of thumb is usually 1-5% of people do post and most people post for a time and get tired of it and stop and just play
I have a calculator in my hand. Please provide me with the figures you have based this on so I can double check your sums.
Okay, this whole argument over whose side is more annoying is honestly not accomplishing anything. Why not just agree to disagree, group hug wince we all like the game on some level and want it to do well, and bombard the devs with ideas on how to fix the problems people are having with the game. Throw enough at the wall and something will stick, right?
I agree to disagree. Completely.
However, I will also not be told that I hate the game or am in some way destroying the ability of others to enjoy the game, simply because I want to discuss things that can be improved.
I reserve the right to dispute, in a civil manner, any post which puts forth the idea that anyone who has an issue is a hater, and should go away.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Would just like to say in this downtime, I have come to read the forum and find it full of naysayers and doom thread makers, a lot of people expecting a lot of things from a game. In fact I think a lot of players only come here to moan!
In spite of this I would like to break the mould and say I have been playing this game for over a year now and am enjoying the constantly evolving game play and the new expansion true its not perfect, what game is? If there is a perfect game... Why aren't you playing that? lol
But devs id like to express my thanks and don't let the naysayers get you down there are a lot of players like me out there in silent fathoms of holodec
What game were you playing for the first three weeks of release?
YES, the content was excellent, but the launch was mired in technical issues and bad judgment that all but killed the game. Queues were empty (and still are to some extent).
Do you like dilithium? It was the forums that screamed when for the third time in three years they nerfed dil - and were forced to put it back because of the outcry.
Do you enjoy R&D with cheaper costs? Oops, it was the forums again that forced them to make the resources more available - from drops to VR materials. In some cases by more than half.
Did you enjoy the massive XP grind? It was the forums that pointed out repeatedly that it wasn't balanced. Guess what - Cryptic took action.
Did you enjoy the difficulty levels so high you failed 10 times out of ten try's? The forums took umbrage with the difficulty, and it was changed.
Were you able to play without your HUD tray resetting every map change? Once again it was the repeated complaints AND support from the community here that got that mess fixed.
Do you enjoy running the same mission in Winter Wonderland 10x per toon for a ridiculous grind? Natch - the forums to the rescue and as of thursday next week, its 10x per account.
---
Yes, there are players who don't notice the little things because they are casual players, and show up 2x a month - or are blissfully ignorant of the changes because they actually 'don't play. They're here for the immersive nature of Drozana on a Friday night.
But for the paying player who wants an active community - we complain when things are not right or simply an unfair to you the casual player.
There we go then. As I said, it's a straw-man argument - there's no substance to it at all.
I see you ignored everythign else I said but that is okay reality is though I cannot prove anything to you as you have already made up your mind and since it was a dev statement and you dont even believe the devs then nothing I say will change it because you have already made up your mind.
I see you ignored everythign else I said but that is okay reality is though I cannot prove anything to you as you have already made up your mind and since it was a dev statement and you dont even believe the devs then nothing I say will change it because you have already made up your mind.
There is your straw man by the way
Right, so we've settled that you can't prove my first point.
My second point then - where do I say that I hate the game? Please point it out to me.
Right, so we've settled that you can't prove my first point.
My second point then - where do I say that I hate the game? Please point it out to me.
prove to me the devs 3% statement was wrong how about that one? can you? no your asking me to prove something that someone has already presented as fact (a dev) I believe the dev I am sorry you dont its not my job to prove cryptics stance. Its your job to disprove it
let me know when you have this proof to prove the dev wrong since it wasnt me that said it and the servers are running and they in fact generated enough money to make an expansion. You dont believe it do the research yourself. :P
I see you ignored everythign else I said but that is okay reality is though I cannot prove anything to you as you have already made up your mind and since it was a dev statement and you dont even believe the devs then nothing I say will change it because you have already made up your mind.
Those of us who have problems with the changes in and leading up to DR love the game. We love it so much that to see it being destroyed, bit by bit, and being turned into a Candy Crush clone, is disturbing. We don't want it to fail. We want it to pull back from the abyss and be the Star Trek game is has a right to be. But, based on the hate, threats, and insanity being directed back at us, I get the feeling that it will continue to be Farmville, Phasers on Full Edition.
So yeah, keep on telling us we hate the game. If you say that enough, you just might make it true.
There is no hate for the game, as a concept, or as a whole. From the way that you write, I can only assume that English isn't your first language - so please, read and reread the complaints, and try using a different translator. Because you are way off base on what the grievances are, and why we have them.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
prove to me the devs 3% statement was wrong how about that one? can you? no your asking me to prove something that someone has already presented as fact (a dev) I believe the dev I am sorry you dont its not my job to prove cryptics stance. Its your job to disprove it
let me know when you have this proof to prove the dev wrong since it wasnt me that said it and the servers are running and they in fact generated enough money to make an expansion. You dont believe it do the research yourself. :P
See, there's the problem again. Haters gonna hate? You're just ignoring everyone's complaints and grouping everyone not happy as a haters. That is the CDF way.
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying...
I may or may not be a CDFer, I'm not sure... I'm CDF in the sense that I say good things about the game I enjoy, but I'm just as likely to complain in the Romulan forums about not enough faction ships, or post in the bug forum about a problem. Thing is, I don't spew hate when I do it, and I subscribe to the thread to I can see when the devs reply and thank them for taking the time to listen.
"Haters gonna hate" is directed at the meaningless fluff thrown at Cryptic. There's a difference between whining and making legitimate complaints, and it's all in the language. There's a difference between "I want the grind reduced between levels" and "why the **** is Cryptic forcing me to grind between levels." Haters gonna hate applies to the latter of those statements.
EDIT: I just looked into the General Discussion titles for examples. Devs are not likely to look at threads with ridiculous titles such as these:
- Sacrificing everything for Delta Quadrant Metrics
- The cheapness of the new ship
- Cryptic losing Money..BIG TIME !!!!
But titles such as this speak volumes (although it doesn't mean the thread isn't going to get hijacked by haters anyways):
- A few changes for the winter event, i would love to see
- Login Screen Suggestion
- Romulan Embassy Boffs Uniforms can be modified but...
i am waiting i see no numbers from you yet because your busy trying to put something on me the one who has nothing to prove so anyhow your welcome. Let me know when you have counted the handful of posters and matched them up to the players in the game and that the number is
the same, greater than or equal to this 3% presented by the dev.
Is there some reason you dont believe it? if so what is the reason? I am sorry I guess I dont read and am too stupid to understand that the tiny amount of posters on this forum in no way matches even the amount of people standing in q'nos most of the time lol. (lets not even talk about ESD which has a much larger number of people logged into it then q'nos ever does)
i am waiting i see no numbers from you yet because your busy trying to put something on me the one who has nothing to prove so anyhow your welcome. Let me know when you have counted the handful of posters and matched them up to the players in the game and that the number is
the same, greater than or equal to this 3% presented by the dev.
Is there some reason you dont believe it? if so what is the reason? I am sorry I guess I dont read and am too stupid to understand that the tiny amount of posters on this forum in no way matches even the amount of people standing in q'nos most of the time lol. (lets not even talk about ESD which has a much larger number of people logged into it then q'nos ever does)
The fact is that the ratio of forum posters to the people in game is not known by the players and I'd be very surprised if Cryptic knew it when you consider the fact that Cryptic runs the game and Perfect World Entertainment - a separate company - runs the forums.
When people pluck some random number out of the air and use it to dismiss perfectly valid complaints they do so because they have no other way of responding to them.
"Haters gonna hate" is directed at the meaningless fluff thrown at Cryptic. There's a difference between whining and making legitimate complaints, and it's all in the language. There's a difference between "I want the grind reduced between levels" and "why the **** is Cryptic forcing me to grind between levels." Haters gonna hate applies to the latter of those statements.
Exactly. Which is why I try and debunk those posts as much as I try and debunk the spurious rebuttals that similar personalities in what is apparently being called the "CDF" camp put forth.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
I'll offer "good luck" before they do a major roll-out.
I'll thank Cryptic when they get it right.
When they drop the ball in QA, I'll point out the bugs in the right forum.
If they ignore those bugs, I'll complain.
And when meta changes have unforeseen outcomes, I'll offer suggestions.
When they take stuff away, I'll ask for it back.
But when they ignore our warnings, and then blame us for the problems - I'll go outside the forums and vocally suggest you avoid coming here.
Every game has malcontents, that no one will ever please.
But when the queues are dead, and fleets are a fraction of their activity; when sales in the exchange drop like a rock, when on a Saturday night you can't organize even one private match for something YOU want to do; and when the visible and public user metrics show the number of active players have dropped by 40%....
I can actively say "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it".
The fact is that the ratio of forum posters to the people in game is not known by the players and I'd be very surprised if Cryptic knew it when you consider the fact that Cryptic runs the game and Perfect World Entertainment - a separate company - runs the forums.
When people pluck some random number out of the air and use it to dismiss perfectly valid complaints they do so because they have no other way of responding to them.
If you really strongly disbelieve something then do the research on it truly but its not my burden to try to play the roll of cryptic or pwe. If your *that* concerned pm the dev who made the statement and ask him to provide you with some numbers or ask him who you can contact about it.
so if you want my rough guestimates then here it is but i am just making a quick count;
I login to the winter wonder land and q nos and esd and did a dyson run. now the winter wonderland has like 100+ copies of itself running with a good 50% of them at capacity of 30 each and another are about 15 in each copy
Dyson holds 30 or so i forget now but at the moment those instances are low on numbers there are about 5 running but I just pulled myself out of that zone and didn't stop to check them all.
q'nos holds 45 or something there are always at least 2 or 3 copies of that running now, there are usually 4 or 5 copies of ESD running I only have one fed dude so dont check that one often, but it hold about the same amount. Same with romulas there is at least one copy of romulus that is at capacity that holds 46 people when I Login. When i do the tagging thing I try desperately to find a half empty instance this is why I know there is always more then one copy running full and usually 2 and on a busy day 4 or 5 and i go into the empty one.
I have not included kobali which holds 15 at a time and has at least 5 or 6 running last I checked on weekends there are more.
and other open zones like undine zone
PLUS the basic maps of players flying from one area to the other
nor have i included the defera open zone
and i ignored the stfs.
how many people are there right now in the winter wonderland playing actively and those others zones count em ?
now at any given time on the forums how many people are posting? while all those copies are running maybe 20 and that is pushing it.. ?
so looks about right to me but you dont believe it so go ask him for hard numbers or get ingame yourself and do a count because this is your burden not mine and I refuse to take it on for you.
Throw enough at the wall and something will stick, right?
Yeah, perhaps. Though I think we mostly have to wait. Whatever Cryptic's response will be, it will take time.
Sure, people will point out that Cryptic was quick to alter the whole skill point thing to make it "grindy" - but I think that was mostly because they knew where they wanted to be, they just initially failed to make the game behave like that.
They need to figure out now - based on feedback, metrics and tea leave reading, where they want it to be the next, and then implement that. We might like the results or not, but I am fairly certain we won't like the wait time, and that will keep the discussion alive and heated in all its forms, constructive or destructive.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I spoke to two people in game the other day, they love Delta Rising. Include my opinion on DR, that is a 100% of the people I polled love the Expansion.
Comments
I may or may not be a CDFer, I'm not sure... I'm CDF in the sense that I say good things about the game I enjoy, but I'm just as likely to complain in the Romulan forums about not enough faction ships, or post in the bug forum about a problem. Thing is, I don't spew hate when I do it, and I subscribe to the thread to I can see when the devs reply and thank them for taking the time to listen.
Which is exactly the same tactic used by those who disagree with complaints whether valid or invalid. There are a whole slew of valid complaints regarding the changes made with DR. Some are eloquently put, others not so, but the validity of the point is still there.
However a lot of the CDF types come in with a singular ideaology that they then prescribe to everyone like Medication or Kool-Aid.
Thing is this change in style which has dramatically reduced a lot of peoples enjoyment of the game, will result in losses for Cryptic. Short term they gained a lot with the DR sales and C-Store purchases initially. Long term will be different. Geko's announcement of "Best release Evar!!!!" relating to the largest purchase day on record for the game reminded me of Robbie Williams when he came out after signing a contract and just yelled "I'm Rich" at the crowd of journalist's. If Robbie looked like a total TRIBBLE then, what does Geko look like...
I guess I have a problem with things when something doesn't meet it's potential. STO has the potential to be a really good social game as well as a solo game. However that potential just highlight's the current failures even moreso. Probably doesn't help that I've modded games for over a decade now (specifically balance related in most cases) and I can see the errors and failures plain as day. Worse is when you can see solution's to them, yet all that happens is people call you names for trying to point them out.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
See, there's the problem again. Haters gonna hate? You're just ignoring everyone's complaints and grouping everyone not happy as a haters. That is the CDF way.
You asked if you were a member of the CDF or not, well I will say your application is being approved as we speak.
And this thread wasn't started to show how happy he/she is with DR, it was flame bait, causing the PVP.
LoL okay now we know what this means. (I dont 'defend' anything) Anyhow all I could think of was KDF didnt get the C part. Anyhow I have given feedback and some of it has been negative, but people see what they want to see. I post suggestions on things quite often lol. I just dont ooze hate so if that makes me some kind of bad thing that is fine.
My suggestions on what they need to do to fix some things can be found on this very forum. I dont ooze hate though I believe at the end of the day that everyone is a human being and should be treated as such and with some minimal level of courtesy and respect and that includes the people building this game who work long and hard hours and try to build a game and keep it working 24/7 within the constraints of what can be done to keep the lights on. I also dont run under the assumption that everything they do has some "evil plan" behind it lol. It is again counter productive to their goal of making an entertainment product. (its also tin foil hat territory and I hate tinfoil hats )
There are people who have posted that the devs actually hate the players and are even trying to get them to not play lol. Now how on earth would this produce the desired effects of making a game that at the end of the day has to create enough revenue to keep things going and pay the paycheques of the people building the game lol.
By the way I consider the free-to-play model the worste thing ever created in gaming I would prefer everyone pay a subscription but free-to-play has despite my dislike of the model taken hold and until it collapses under its own weight and the industry swings another direction its here to stay. It has proven to be a better financial way to run a game then the subscription based model which many companies still include on the side for us people who refuse to partake in the cash shop frenzy but there is more business to be had with that cash shop model due to the fact that micro transactions are now macro transactions lol. It does keep games running though I give them that so at the end of the day (for now) its a necessary evil to keep games running which take years before they can even turn a profit because of the R&D lag time required to build them and launch them in a playable state.
so whatevers.
dude your lumping everyone who has something positive to say as CDF. So pot meet kettle
You do have to admit that reading the forum now is just one giant hatefest and anyone who has anything nice to say gets pigeonholed as some kind of bad thing so hate me for liking the content release all you like at least I know when to stop playing a game and go elsewhere
This is why I left actually I was originally KDF only at the time the game was released the only way to level a klingon was by PvP it was very fun and I really enjoyed it but eventually it became unfun as they "fixed" things. I just left one day poof lol and now I come back there is lots of content that is fun to do even though there is no PvP in this game that is dead and something that one has to realize is not ever going to be a part of this game again. So I Play what I like and probably by the time a year has gone by I will have had my fill and just move on.
That's not what finally got me to leave though, I left for about a month because of the devs' response. Don't like the grind? Too bad, have an XP nerf! Don't think it's the best expansion ever? Well you're wrong because it made us a truckload of money, fun doesn't matter!
So I put in my little two cents in and left for other games. Now however it's the winter event, and I can't resist the sirens' call of snowball fights, cartoon yetis, and saving helpless gingerbread men. I'm back, I'm having fun, but it's mostly not with Delta Rising. I'll run a mission every now and then, I do still need to get my mains to level 60, but it's by no means the reason I log on.
Once the winter event is over I'll probably go back to playing other games and not getting on STO very much, if at all. And you know what? That makes me kind of sad because I really WANT to like Delta Rising, but I can't bring myself to really have fun with it.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Not at all m8. To be part of the CDF takes a lot and I mean a lot of sucking up, belittling, shouting down and a general nothing is wrong with the game attitude. That makes you part of the CDF. Not every one who is positive is is made an honorary member straight away;)
Nothing wrong with being positive, it's the I'm happy and if your not leave that I have a problem with.
And if you look in several of the DR threads, the conversation remained completely civil up until someone decided to tell everyone who has a problem with the changes to effectively sod off.
That in turn has created vitriol on the part of the less patient people who have problems with DR and PWE in general, and led to a devolution of several of the more germane threads on the issues.
I and many others have said this many times in the last few days -
Those of us who have problems with the changes in and leading up to DR love the game. We love it so much that to see it being destroyed, bit by bit, and being turned into a Candy Crush clone, is disturbing. We don't want it to fail. We want it to pull back from the abyss and be the Star Trek game is has a right to be. But, based on the hate, threats, and insanity being directed back at us, I get the feeling that it will continue to be Farmville, Phasers on Full Edition.
So yeah, keep on telling us we hate the game. If you say that enough, you just might make it true.
WelL i have not belittled anyone, shouted anyone down or anything I just made an observation some people by the way they post depict this game as sheer drugery and work as if its some sort of mandatory thing like work or school (if you read my original post). I had a conversation with someone ingame about the obvious pain these people seemed to be in and i wondered why they simply do not leave as they are obviously very stressed and very unhappy and its not healthy for you to do this to yourself. Leisure time should be fun and leisurely leave the pain and drudgery for work or school (although I loved university I couldn't get enough of it lol I hate my work though.)
It was an observation based on many of the responses I have seen on this forum and in this thread because the popular thing to do at the moment is to dislike the expansion. If you like it your some kind of mutant crazy person
1) Only 3% of players use the forums. Everyone else is enjoying the game.
2) If you don't like the game don't play.
3) I enjoy the game, it's your problem if you don't.
To which I'd like to reply:
1) Show me the numbers on this?
2) If everyone who has issues with the game stops playing, it'll be pretty lonely in there for you.
3) If I'm a chef and some of my customers don't like my food after I've changed the recipe, am I supposed to blame the customers or do I take responsibility myself?
Free Tibet!
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
try counting the number of active posters on this forum if this is more then 3% then this game would be bankrupt but generally the rule of thumb is usually 1-5% of people do post and most people post for a time and get tired of it and stop and just play
-why would you do something you hate this seems like some sort of punishment and on top of it you pay for this torture.
-If people stopped playing the game would close down and it would not exist so hence the very existance of the game means that there are enough people playing it and enjoying it to keep it running and give the company enough money to make more content and even an expansion (well hopefully they are not torturing themselves although some of the responses make me wonder lol)
this one I dont get are you saying that its my problem if you dont like the game?
If I dont like french food and your a chef who only makes french food is it your fault I hate french food? or do you simply accept that not everyone likes french food and suggest they eat at the italian restaurant down the street?
I have a calculator in my hand. Please provide me with the figures you have based this on so I can double check your sums.
Free Tibet!
no do the counting yourself... :P
I agree to disagree. Completely.
However, I will also not be told that I hate the game or am in some way destroying the ability of others to enjoy the game, simply because I want to discuss things that can be improved.
I reserve the right to dispute, in a civil manner, any post which puts forth the idea that anyone who has an issue is a hater, and should go away.
What game were you playing for the first three weeks of release?
YES, the content was excellent, but the launch was mired in technical issues and bad judgment that all but killed the game. Queues were empty (and still are to some extent).
Do you like dilithium? It was the forums that screamed when for the third time in three years they nerfed dil - and were forced to put it back because of the outcry.
Do you enjoy R&D with cheaper costs? Oops, it was the forums again that forced them to make the resources more available - from drops to VR materials. In some cases by more than half.
Did you enjoy the massive XP grind? It was the forums that pointed out repeatedly that it wasn't balanced. Guess what - Cryptic took action.
Did you enjoy the difficulty levels so high you failed 10 times out of ten try's? The forums took umbrage with the difficulty, and it was changed.
Were you able to play without your HUD tray resetting every map change? Once again it was the repeated complaints AND support from the community here that got that mess fixed.
Do you enjoy running the same mission in Winter Wonderland 10x per toon for a ridiculous grind? Natch - the forums to the rescue and as of thursday next week, its 10x per account.
---
Yes, there are players who don't notice the little things because they are casual players, and show up 2x a month - or are blissfully ignorant of the changes because they actually 'don't play. They're here for the immersive nature of Drozana on a Friday night.
But for the paying player who wants an active community - we complain when things are not right or simply an unfair to you the casual player.
There we go then. As I said, it's a straw-man argument - there's no substance to it at all.
Free Tibet!
I see you ignored everythign else I said but that is okay reality is though I cannot prove anything to you as you have already made up your mind and since it was a dev statement and you dont even believe the devs then nothing I say will change it because you have already made up your mind.
There is your straw man by the way
Right, so we've settled that you can't prove my first point.
My second point then - where do I say that I hate the game? Please point it out to me.
Free Tibet!
prove to me the devs 3% statement was wrong how about that one? can you? no your asking me to prove something that someone has already presented as fact (a dev) I believe the dev I am sorry you dont its not my job to prove cryptics stance. Its your job to disprove it
let me know when you have this proof to prove the dev wrong since it wasnt me that said it and the servers are running and they in fact generated enough money to make an expansion. You dont believe it do the research yourself. :P
You forgot to read.
There is no hate for the game, as a concept, or as a whole. From the way that you write, I can only assume that English isn't your first language - so please, read and reread the complaints, and try using a different translator. Because you are way off base on what the grievances are, and why we have them.
So you can't prove my 2nd point either?
Thank you for playing Star Trek Online (tm)
Free Tibet!
No, that's not at all what I'm saying. This is what I'm saying...
"Haters gonna hate" is directed at the meaningless fluff thrown at Cryptic. There's a difference between whining and making legitimate complaints, and it's all in the language. There's a difference between "I want the grind reduced between levels" and "why the **** is Cryptic forcing me to grind between levels." Haters gonna hate applies to the latter of those statements.
EDIT: I just looked into the General Discussion titles for examples. Devs are not likely to look at threads with ridiculous titles such as these:
- Sacrificing everything for Delta Quadrant Metrics
- The cheapness of the new ship
- Cryptic losing Money..BIG TIME !!!!
But titles such as this speak volumes (although it doesn't mean the thread isn't going to get hijacked by haters anyways):
- A few changes for the winter event, i would love to see
- Login Screen Suggestion
- Romulan Embassy Boffs Uniforms can be modified but...
i am waiting i see no numbers from you yet because your busy trying to put something on me the one who has nothing to prove so anyhow your welcome. Let me know when you have counted the handful of posters and matched them up to the players in the game and that the number is
the same, greater than or equal to this 3% presented by the dev.
Is there some reason you dont believe it? if so what is the reason? I am sorry I guess I dont read and am too stupid to understand that the tiny amount of posters on this forum in no way matches even the amount of people standing in q'nos most of the time lol. (lets not even talk about ESD which has a much larger number of people logged into it then q'nos ever does)
The fact is that the ratio of forum posters to the people in game is not known by the players and I'd be very surprised if Cryptic knew it when you consider the fact that Cryptic runs the game and Perfect World Entertainment - a separate company - runs the forums.
When people pluck some random number out of the air and use it to dismiss perfectly valid complaints they do so because they have no other way of responding to them.
Free Tibet!
Exactly. Which is why I try and debunk those posts as much as I try and debunk the spurious rebuttals that similar personalities in what is apparently being called the "CDF" camp put forth.
I'll thank Cryptic when they get it right.
When they drop the ball in QA, I'll point out the bugs in the right forum.
If they ignore those bugs, I'll complain.
And when meta changes have unforeseen outcomes, I'll offer suggestions.
When they take stuff away, I'll ask for it back.
But when they ignore our warnings, and then blame us for the problems - I'll go outside the forums and vocally suggest you avoid coming here.
Every game has malcontents, that no one will ever please.
But when the queues are dead, and fleets are a fraction of their activity; when sales in the exchange drop like a rock, when on a Saturday night you can't organize even one private match for something YOU want to do; and when the visible and public user metrics show the number of active players have dropped by 40%....
I can actively say "Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it".
If you really strongly disbelieve something then do the research on it truly but its not my burden to try to play the roll of cryptic or pwe. If your *that* concerned pm the dev who made the statement and ask him to provide you with some numbers or ask him who you can contact about it.
so if you want my rough guestimates then here it is but i am just making a quick count;
I login to the winter wonder land and q nos and esd and did a dyson run. now the winter wonderland has like 100+ copies of itself running with a good 50% of them at capacity of 30 each and another are about 15 in each copy
Dyson holds 30 or so i forget now but at the moment those instances are low on numbers there are about 5 running but I just pulled myself out of that zone and didn't stop to check them all.
q'nos holds 45 or something there are always at least 2 or 3 copies of that running now, there are usually 4 or 5 copies of ESD running I only have one fed dude so dont check that one often, but it hold about the same amount. Same with romulas there is at least one copy of romulus that is at capacity that holds 46 people when I Login. When i do the tagging thing I try desperately to find a half empty instance this is why I know there is always more then one copy running full and usually 2 and on a busy day 4 or 5 and i go into the empty one.
I have not included kobali which holds 15 at a time and has at least 5 or 6 running last I checked on weekends there are more.
and other open zones like undine zone
PLUS the basic maps of players flying from one area to the other
nor have i included the defera open zone
and i ignored the stfs.
how many people are there right now in the winter wonderland playing actively and those others zones count em ?
now at any given time on the forums how many people are posting? while all those copies are running maybe 20 and that is pushing it.. ?
so looks about right to me but you dont believe it so go ask him for hard numbers or get ingame yourself and do a count because this is your burden not mine and I refuse to take it on for you.
Sure, people will point out that Cryptic was quick to alter the whole skill point thing to make it "grindy" - but I think that was mostly because they knew where they wanted to be, they just initially failed to make the game behave like that.
They need to figure out now - based on feedback, metrics and tea leave reading, where they want it to be the next, and then implement that. We might like the results or not, but I am fairly certain we won't like the wait time, and that will keep the discussion alive and heated in all its forms, constructive or destructive.
I spoke to two people in game the other day, they love Delta Rising. Include my opinion on DR, that is a 100% of the people I polled love the Expansion.
There are my numbers!