Yes, it does make it terribly convenient when you can simply pigeonhole anyone who disagrees with you as a "white knight", and disregard what they're saying. So much easier than reading and thinking, isn't it?
I don't disagree that lumping people into tropes is an easy way to disregard the argument, however, there is also something to be said for the fact that some people do, and always will "white knight" when anything is criticized. Take a look at how many people look back at the Pony Express as a model of complete efficiency. (note, I was going to reference a certain dictator elected in 1936 there, but it was too clich
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
"Delta rising the best expansion ever--" *Stocks fall 22%, loses 100,000+ players* "--And the players love it."
And that's why Cryptic really has to be careful how to evaluate feedback here. People make up connections that don't exist, misinterpret stuff and what not.
The stock changes of PWE are based on Q3 numbers and whatever other market fickleness exist. Crptic and Startrek Online are nly a small part of that, and Delta Rising only appears in those numbers as cost - the sales for DR will go into Q4.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Yes, it does make it terribly convenient when you can simply pigeonhole anyone who disagrees with you as a "white knight", and disregard what they're saying. So much easier than reading and thinking, isn't it?
The problem is it's the same white nights yourself included, that come into any thread and defend the cryptic white nights and come up with the same excuses. That's not pigenholing, that's just a fact.
Why are you not having a go at the Op for pigeonholing anyone who doesn't like the game is a moaner?
We all know why.
Why do all you CDFers come to the forums anyway when you obviously love the game so much?
Why does it effect you so much when people moan or hate on the game?
The reason I come here is simple, I enjoy the forums more than the game. Why do you when you love this game so much.
I note most of the CDFers have 100s and 1000s of posts. I think they dislike the game more then there prepared to admit as they spend a lot of time posting.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
And that's why Cryptic really has to be careful how to evaluate feedback here. People make up connections that don't exist, misinterpret stuff and what not.
The stock changes of PWE are based on Q3 numbers and whatever other market fickleness exist. Crptic and Startrek Online are nly a small part of that, and Delta Rising only appears in those numbers as cost - the sales for DR will go into Q4.
I feel compelled to also point out that NWO isn't doing so hot either btw. ;D two major flagships can cause serious flops we've seen it before.
The reason I come here is simple, I enjoy the forums more than the game. Why do you when you love this game so much.
I'm often in the camp of supporting / defending the game, simply because I do actually enjoy playing it.
I originally came to the forums to join the conversations in the Romulan areas. Great debates going on there about the Republic, for instance.
But I also come on because of the insane amount of hate thrown at Cryptic on a regular basis. And a sad, sad amount of it is purely hateful comments with minimal critique, or critique that ends up being hidden behind the volume of hate. If someone doesn't come in and say how much they genuinely enjoy the game, then all the devs will see are comments of absolute garbage language, calls for firings, complaints over every new mechanic or item, and so on. It can't be a rewarding experience for the employees at Cryptic to see how regularly the forumgoers (I say forumgoers, not playerbase in general) completely trash-talk and personally insult people who are just trying to do their jobs and make a fun game.
Are there legitimate complaints to be stated about STO? Of course, and that's a major reason for the bug report forums, where the devs are in fact very active at replying. But seriously... the amount of poison thrown at the human beings behind the company logo is just inexcusable.
As well, I'm a little worried about ever again seeing Star Trek actors to join up for another storyline. If any of them read this kind of regular attacking - and again, often personal and abusive - about how 'terrible' the game and the expansion are, then there's a good chance many Star Trek actors are just going to walk away from STO or never join up at all. And it will be the playerbase's fault in general, because of a group of forumgoers who have taken the language of their criticism way too far.
If the game dies, it will not be the fault of Cryptic. It will be the fault of the loudest and most violently hateful complainers, who scare away the devs and VO talent. Valid, well-stated complaints are fine, but for the sake of the game, the attitude of hate and the hurtful language needs to be toned down a lot.
The biggest drawback is that sto is just like most mmos very little imagination very little development. Its become a grand candycrush.
Like most modern games, it has gone the super-linear, sandbox free route. The drawback to that approach, aside from the inherent limited nature, is that it also needs constant infusions of content and/or shinies to keep the cashflow. It's cyclical - they need to produce more, more often, so they can fund the rapid development cycle to produce more, more often.
The benefits if the older (UO, AC, AO, etc.) open world MMOs is that in some cases it took YEARS for players to fully explore the world and experience all that it had to offer. One of those older games had a full planet map that would take 17 hours of real time to traverse in a straightline path. That gives time for slower development cycles with emphasis put on the quality rather than the quantity, or even just incredible quality on immense quantity in the case of some expansions.
Linear game design requires more and more frequent content - or in the case of modern shooters, a sequel every year or two. The more freeform it is (UT3 being a good example), the longer you can continue to sell the game because there are still new things to be experienced.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
While I do have some issues with Delta Rising with regard to the sluggish leveling and that Advanced queues got more than a bit of overkill in their difficulty boost (yes, Elite should be OMGWTFBBQ difficult, but Advanced...not so much), I do, for the most part, highly enjoy the expansion.
Are there legitimate complaints to be stated about STO? Of course, and that's a major reason for the bug report forums, where the devs are in fact very active at replying. But seriously... the amount of poison thrown at the human beings behind the company logo is just inexcusable.
As well, I'm a little worried about ever again seeing Star Trek actors to join up for another storyline. If any of them read this kind of regular attacking - and again, often personal and abusive - about how 'terrible' the game and the expansion are, then there's a good chance many Star Trek actors are just going to walk away from STO or never join up at all. And it will be the playerbase's fault in general, because of a group of forumgoers who have taken the language of their criticism way too far.
Actually, aside from the normal Terrible English 12-year-old-brigade, MOST of the DR complaint posts have been fairly well reasoned. Even the ones started by a hateful post have tended to evolve into real discussions.
We aren't usually talking about bugs, so no, most of this doesn't belong in the bug section. Most of it concerns the fact that the monetization has dictated DR design, rather that synergized with it.
And, not to justify them, but the majority of the "personal" attacks are directed towards certain persons who themselves have made outright insulting commentary concerning the player base.
As to the actors - this is in no way negative, but they are professionals. They have all been getting hate from Trekkies for the shows for a loooong time. They came for a paycheck. They will return for a paycheck, except for the ones who have a distinct dislike for their Trek experience in general (I'm looking at you, Kate Mulgrew).
The point is, most of these complaints simply are not attacking the art team, programmers, or even the managers - they are complaints stemming from the business model being dictated by the bean counters. We don't hate the VOs, we don't hate the art design, we hate being taken for a ride. Tacofangs didn't choose to introduce a $55 "microtransaction", or totally obsolete every formerly endgame item in the game - neither did Trendy, or Frost. Some beancounter in a green visor in some office did that.
The vitriolic posts are coming from the same corner they always did - the Anonymous A-hole Association. The majority of the commentary has been civil, if severe.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
The point is, most of these complaints simply are not attacking the art team, programmers, or even the managers - they are complaints stemming from the business model being dictated by the bean counters. We don't hate the VOs, we don't hate the art design, we hate being taken for a ride. Tacofangs didn't choose to introduce a $55 "microtransaction", or totally obsolete every formerly endgame item in the game - neither did Trendy, or Frost. Some beancounter in a green visor in some office did that.
The vitriolic posts are coming from the same corner they always did - the Anonymous A-hole Association. The majority of the commentary has been civil, if severe.
Nailed it.. absolutely spot on.
Most of us like a good portion of DR, but we have issues separate from the story line, voice actors, art direction, etc.
Most of us like a good portion of DR, but we have issues separate from the story line, voice actors, art direction, etc.
This post lays it out pretty well. Nicely done.
Thank you. I want the game to get back to the state where I feel comfortable playing it, and spending a reasonable amount of money in.
To do that, those of us who don't like things need to be calm and state the exact issues we have a problem with, without going all last-episode-of-The-Guild on the developers.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Most of us like a good portion of DR, but we have issues separate from the story line, voice actors, art direction, etc.
This post lays it out pretty well. Nicely done.
I'd also like to point out that those of us who weren't very impressed with DR overall such as myself saw it merely as "not my favorite story arc"... until such time as constant fiddling with mechanics, XP nerfs, and other such actions got up our noses (and by 'our' I mean 'my'... but I doubt I'm the only one).
Ironically though, if none of that constant fiddling and nerfing had been done, by now I would probably have reached 60 on all nine of my toons and moved all of them through DR simply for the sake of completeness and get them into position for any future storylines.
Cryptic has literally blocked their own goals :rolleyes:
To do that, those of us who don't like things need to be calm and state the exact issues we have a problem with, without going all last-episode-of-The-Guild on the developers.
Yeah...there are a lot of Vorks on these boards...
Yeah, and the problem has been that too many forumgoers have taken the extreme.
I understand that there's legitimate, well-stated ctiricism or suggestions out there. But there's also enough hate spewed that we're running into a problem. Case in point, the amount of personal attacks against Taco for his work on Club 47. That was... sickening. And when the login bug hit just after DR was launched Trendy was hit hard with some pretty nasty comments, all while she was trying to keep the forum updated with the latest information.
But, seems like on that point I'm preaching to the choir here, so that's a good sign
EDIT: hit the reply button too quickly...
I also really haven't minded the devs speaking about the business-related metrics, or designing content to keep people in the game. Cryptic is, of course, a for-profit business. And I'd expect them to entice the playerbase to spend money or time on the game, because without it they wouldn't have the resources to keep the business going.
As to the actors - this is in no way negative, but they are professionals. They have all been getting hate from Trekkies for the shows for a loooong time. They came for a paycheck. They will return for a paycheck, except for the ones who have a distinct dislike for their Trek experience in general (I'm looking at you, Kate Mulgrew).
The VO for Delta Rising, yes they got a paycheque. And that paycheque cost Cryptic real money. And in a F2P game, that means they need some type of return. Hence the new C-Store goodies, and rewards that require time spent in-game. I haven't felt it's a problematic model - I just suppose I can see it from both sides of the coin, as a player and from the business needs. And I understand the business needs must be met, in order for me to remain as a player.
But if Garrett Wang's pure enthusiasm is any indication, I don't think all of the VO that's come into STO has been in it for the paycheque. They're in it to have some fun with Star Trek again. So my concern is more along the lines that some forumgoers have been so openly hostile to DR to the point that some actors may feel it's not worth the risk or headache.
Good points here, thing is I may have responded harshly at times (one case was an analogy that go up the nose of Q for a couple of days) but it's because of the way the dev's acted and reacted to situations primarily that caused the problems. When DR was released it was the first time I'd actually witnessed non-funnelled emergent gameplay within STO. It was even a lot of fun, but to the dev's it was the antithesis of fun because we were having it in a non-metric friendly location and actually progressing through the levels and a fast pace. I wouldn't have minded a 50% nerf, even a 66% nerf would have been fine. In fact with a 66% nerf you would have needed to complete around 4 patrols between missions to gain a level and continue (hmm that's about right considering there's only 4 between missions...).
Problem is it was about 10-15x that and caused all the problems with leveling, with even having a desire to play the game due to the reduction in reward vs time being so insanely huge. The broken hitpoints on enemy's can easily be overlooked for the leveling time.
The hitpoint issue is the other real major beef for me. I've been playing games for 20+ years and never have I come across such a lazy scaling mechanic as employed in STO for difficulty levels. The enemy have rudimentary AI at best anyway, but to just increase Shield and Hull Hitpoints instead of actually giving the ships proper loadouts and a slightly more effective AI is ludicrous. It's just not acceptable for a released game IMO. The enemies pose no actual threat in any of the difficulty's, they are just literal time gates. Instead of having to wait them out you have to sit there waiting them out by hitting spacebar 5 million times (glad I have a mechanical keyboard!).
The final nail in the coffin though is the RNG R&D and Upgrade system. That's gotta be one of the least player friendly systems I've ever encountered. They are essentially the same system too, just implemented with different interfaces. I don't comprehend why for upgrading it costs Dil to apply each token. It should just apply the Dil cost on the final Upgrade point. For the R&D requiring people to find unique DoFF's to create the unique gear only to find it gated behind the Elite STF's is just swift punch to the ballsack.
Some people say it's not needed, others say just play and eventually you'll get there. I don't subscribe to those excuses for implementing poor gameplay decisions to attempt to force Dil purchasing via Zen. To me that's just a team that doesn't know how to integrate a F2P structure into a game which will encourage people to purchase the pay currency without it feeling like they are being goaded, forced or manipulated into it. Hell if they reviewed and lowered costs for a lot of item's coupled with changing the mechanics of things like XP Boosts they could increase revenue by a large margin.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
I'm genuinely curious as to how many of the people who say they love DR and everything about it, were also some of the people complaining about the foundry farming missions a year or so back.
I am curious as to why so many people seem to insist on doing something they hate. I was talking to a friend about this ingame the other day we got the feeling that after reading the bulk of the forums that there is a group that has absolutely nothing positive to say about this game. This led us to wonder why if they dislike the activity so intensly and it is not something that they have to do to say earn a living or get a degree in school or something that the solution for them is to find something else to do because obviously they are suffering so much that it would be better for their health to find a more relaxing and enjoyable pass time.
Anyhow just about to login again I got enough ephoph tags on two of my guys to make two of the christmas ephophs I have another two to run through that race. Then I am going to go play a round of the kobali ground zone on one guy and take another guy through the undine space battlezone.
I totally agree about the new content itself. I absolutely loved all the delta missions and getting to catch up with the Voyager folks.
However the killing of the pve queues with the introduction of the failqueues is hurting the game.
I'm not too fussed about the massive experience wall, but others are and that also is hurting the game.
If these 2 things were fixed I think we'd be back on track for a healthy game.
agree totally, I too have been enjoying most of the content, one or two of the pve qued missions are ok but with most its just too darn easy to fail on silly things.
the exp gain is not bothering me particularly, I have all my characters to lv60 and that was my primary goal, I am not to fussed over the spec tree that will come over time.
I know there are a lot of players that this is bothering and I would like to see it fixed for their benefit.
the game will never be 100% perfect but if cryptic could fix the things that are bugging players the most then it will benefit not only the players but cryptic as well.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I love this game. It's the only MMO I play. The new expansion contains so many good ideas - the specialization points system and starship mastery are fantastic. The new ship traits are great, the new levels are works of art and the new missions (not the missions that are just 5 patrols bundled together) are fun.
It's such a crying shame that someone read a copy of "MMO Economics for Dummies" and then hamstrung all these amazing ideas and improvements. The team must have worked so hard and to see a beautiful area like the Kobali ground zone empty due to rewards being set so low must be heartbreaking for the people who worked on it.
To dismiss my complaints by saying "only 3% of players use the forums" makes it seem like you don't actually have a valid counter-argument for my complaints. I'm not complaining because I hate the game. If I hated the game I wouldn't play it. I'm just hoping that Cryptic's staff realise that over the long-term, their current approach - the current cash-grab - will bring them far less profit than the micro-transaction model they've been using for years.
I am curious as to why so many people seem to insist on doing something they hate. I was talking to a friend about this ingame the other day we got the feeling that after reading the bulk of the forums that there is a group that has absolutely nothing positive to say about this game. This led us to wonder why if they dislike the activity so intensly and it is not something that they have to do to say earn a living or get a degree in school or something that the solution for them is to find something else to do because obviously they are suffering so much that it would be better for their health to find a more relaxing and enjoyable pass time.
That's a question I've been asking for some time. So far, the closest I've gotten to an answer was along the lines of, "I've been hoping it gets better," which strikes as a less-than-valid reason to do - well, anything. When it became clear that my first wife would never stop either cheating or lying about it, I initiated divorce proceedings. When Apple's iTunes insisted that I not only wanted to download the new U2 album but also wanted it appended to my personal playlist, I started shopping for a new smartphone. And when I got bored with WoW, and it became clear that all they offered was more of the same, I dropped my subscription, walked away from the forums, and never looked back.
(Second wife is a beautiful, strong woman who never feels the need to lie about anything; Nokia Lumia actually works better for me as a phone than the iPhone; and now I play and greatly enjoy STO and CO.)
TRIBBLE, I haven't been doing the Winter Wonderland because the big reward is a Breen ship, and I strongly dislike the Breen design aesthetic. I agree that it's nice that an alien POV can be considered in such matters - I just disagree with that species' POV, is all. So I don't get the ship, I don't participate in the activities, and (this is the important part, y'all here in the forums should listen up) I don't waste my time and energy complaining because someone else enjoys something I don't. Cuts down on my ulcer-medication expenditures considerably.
I don't waste my time and energy complaining because someone else enjoys something I don't. Cuts down on my ulcer-medication expenditures considerably.
But you do spend the time and energy complaining about people who clearly have a problem with this game, as you come into every thread and spout how great Cryptic is and how great STO is and anyone who disagrees is a whiner, so I call butkiss on your statement.
Why not actually take some of your own advise and just play the game and ignore the forums? I know why. its because you and the rest of the CDF are so blinkered and blind, you cannot accept that people have genuine issues with the game and think it's your duty to defend Cryptic and STO to the hilt.
For what reason I don't know because Cryptic doesn't care about you just as much as it doesn't care about everyone on these forums.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Why not actually take some of your own advise and just play the game and ignore the forums?
Because a complaint isn't justifiable just because its made. Sure, to each his own but when you [generally] make a suggestion for how the game should be changed that suggestion must stand up to evidence (though not much of that can be expected at a forum level of discourse) and reason. If that's lacking then I for one am going to speak out about it because at best (assuming that I am indeed correct in this hypothetical situation) what's being proposed is an arbitrary change with greater odds of TRIBBLE something up than accomplishing any productive goal. At worst, its directly counter to either my or (when I'm in the mood to apply more objective thought to the problem, which mind you isn't just mob psychology) the population's interests.
This isn't just a club for a particular kind of special interest (within the STO community) Its [ostensibly] a place for open discussion and if you do indeed have an issue with those who don't blithely follow along with complaints then form a private forum and invite all those that you see fit to handle your agenda.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
To jonsills, ummax, duncanidaho11 and all the other CDF types...
I didn't come on the forums before DR to complain or say much at all other than to look for advice on how to build ships, how to run STF's and so on.
I even enjoyed my time spent in game as the goals I was working towards (which were taking a lot of time) were achievable in a reasonable time frame and with a reasonable outlay. I was a beta tester, I hoped things would improve from Beta to Release, but they didn't so I left. Came back around the F2P conversion and levelled to 50, then left again as I didn't feel I was getting what I wanted out of the game.
When Legacy of Romulus released I was actually looking forward to it. I started playing again just in time to miss out on the Obelisk which was a frustration, but ignoring that I had a great time, even got a LoR starter pack and a lot of Rom ships which for me are my favourite faction. However issues with the ground zones and other factors in my life drew me away again.
Finally about April '14 I got back into STO. It had reached a point that was a lot of fun, the ship builds had a huge amount of depth which I liked, the DPS leagues were a good challenge as was getting a ship ready for PvP. The story content has always been secondary especially as it's nowhere near up to par for proper episodic or RPG quality storylines, but again my focus has always been the ships and the shipbuilding.
The fleet I had joined just got it's T5 Starbase complete a couple of days before DR, which was cool, I'd helped as much as possible with that push to T5, I'd saved up close to 1M Dil for the release and things were looking great.
However after DR drops, the Dev's decide to blame a development bug on the players and claim them as exploiter's. That was an incredibly sour note as it was the first time that I had experienced fun emergent gameplay in STO. After that a series of nerf's to any and every method of levelling that wasn't excessive grind runs through DQ patrol's reduced my desire to even bother. Up to that point I had also avoided the Upgrade system, primarily because all the gear I wanted to upgrade was either bugged at the time or relative to what was going to be released with DR. When I looked into it properly I almost fell out of my seat laughing. It's one of the worst designed upgrade systems I've seen, and I've seen a lot. It removes player rewards and gives them a lottery, one which can be failed an infinite amount of times due to the way RNG works. The cost of setting up a ship went through the roof, quite literally 100x if not 1000x the cost of setting up an endgame build.
I don't mind having a bit of cost to get a reward but when it's so blatantly a cash grab, on top of the other problems you are all probably right. It's more than likely time to walk away again. The difference this time is that I will feel cheated, robbed of the money I invested to enjoy a hobby that got turned into something that is so far removed from what it was before the expansion, what's more galling is I bought the expansion with the hope it would continue to be enjoyable after release as it had been before release. I was wrong, I admit it. However it doesn't give any of you the right to say the complaints of those who have been affected by the actions of the Dev's in a bad way are invalid or baseless as is the usual argument. When people invest time or money into something they enjoy which is altered, broken or damaged by a third party even if it's a service offered by the third party, people will react emotionally and usually with frustration or anger. Hence the forum's are still awash with complaints getting close to 2 months after release.
If you or Cryptic thought the people who were annoyed would just disappear eventually, well you were all rather shortsighted.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
To jonsills, ummax, duncanidaho11 and all the other CDF types...
err i dont speak abbreviation what is a 'cdf' type
and i only started using the forums they amuse me lol. A lot of people lack logic and the lack of logic is extremely amusing in many cases.
I live by a simple rule and its this
Entertainment is supposed to Entertain.
If its entertaining I partake if it stops being entertaining I stop partaking.
I have been doing this for many years.
I get the impression by the fact it appears after reading these forums long enough that in the eyes of some people cryptic can't do anything right.
NO! I mean it truly they dont even know how to turn on a pc and put one pant leg on before the other when dressing by the way in which some people post.
Those people portray this game as sheer drudgery. Now this is where logic should kick in and my own personal rule
that I have been using in gaming since well MMORPG"s were born
"when it stops being entertaining I stop playing"
I have been gaming since I was in my mid 30's and I am now over 50. I have seen all kinds of games and played all kinds of games. Some I hated and played for 2 seconds others I decided to fork over money to play longer for etc.
"when it stops being entertaining I stop playing"
So if its sheer drudgery obviously at this point I would not have run to the forum and posted an 'I quit' post in fact I would have just gone elsewhere.
IN fact I have done that with *this* very game yup. I am a beta tester I played for about a year after release and then.. *gasp* the game stopped being fun for me so *gasp* I stopped playing and only about 6 months ago *gasp* decided to return to play it again. There is now more content to play through and a whole host of new things that did not exist since I left so i ponied up some money and will play this game until I get tired of it again and then *gasp* I will just leave. :P
now if someone could tell me if I should be insulted I would like to know what 'CDF' means.
IN fact I have done that with *this* very game yup. I am a beta tester I played for about a year after release and then.. *gasp* the game stopped being fun for me so *gasp* I stopped playing and only about 6 months ago *gasp* decided to return to play it again. There is now more content to play through and a whole host of new things that did not exist since I left so i ponied up some money and will play this game until I get tired of it again and then *gasp* I will just leave. :P
now if someone could tell me if I should be insulted I would like to know what 'CDF' means.
Good for you and there in lies the issue that you and the other CDF don't get or choose not to get and that is not everyone is like you. You all believe that if you like the game everyone should and if they don't they should just leave.
What you also cannot get into your heads is that most people on here that are not happy and are in the words of the CDF moaning and whining, don't want to leave, they want a game that they can enjoy and when they feel that enjoyment is being taken away from them, they come to these forums to voice their unhappiness which is another thing the CDF don't like.
That's another problem with the CDF, they don't acknowledge any issues at all with the game and thus anyone who has issues, it must be all in their head and then come up with the same stock answers like you do and that is if your not happy leave.
Oh and CDF = Cryptic Defense Force. Every few months a new leader comes out and they shout down everyone who has a problem. They all eventually move to the darkside and a few people that you and the other CDF have a problem with, were once part of your diminishing club.
Ofc we do have a few left that have been in the club since day 1, but everyone know's who they are and they are usually laughed at anyway.
Everything is awesome.
Straight from the mouth of one of the leaders of the CDF - "I tell you what, Haven't spent any money either - I'm a lousy freeloader" - Jonsills 17/12/2014
Good for you and there in lies the issue that you and the other CDF don't get or choose not to get and that is not everyone is like you. You all believe that if you like the game everyone should and if they don't they should just leave.
And I will continue to believe that if you don't like it, at some point you need to consider leaving.
About 2 (now probably 2 and a half) years ago I left. I was into STO's PvP at the time, but the new addition like Refits and clickable power consoles back then made the already poor PvP balance worse, and the game had not seen an actual PvP expansion in forever. It's actually had lost a PvP game type entirely, and the only positive feature that was added were private PvP queues.
People were complaining and whining and moaing about PvP back then. They complained about failed promises. There was always talk about a future season that would bring some PvP enhancements. But that PvP season never came. And I don't think it ever will. But people kept playing the game and complaining. But nothing came of it - the lofty ideas dstahl and players described never came.
It is a futile endeavour. You should only do the things in this game that are fun to you. If what you would like to do cannot be done without a lot of unfun requirement fullfillment, don't try to muddle through. Tell Cryptic what you don't like what you would like to see, and if isn't happening, go. It will not make your wish come true any sooner than complaining will - but it will make your life better, because you can now do stuff again that you can like, and avoid all the negativity the stuff you didn't like brought into your life.
And maybe much later, you can come back to the game and find that what you wanted is there - or that something else is there that you like. Or it's still something you don't like - and you know now that it's not bad to leave again.
PvP hasn't gotten any better for STO, unfortunately. But I found that I like doing the new stuff, that I still love blowing up starships. But if it stops being fun, be it because it has become repetitive or Cryptic removes things or adds barriers - I can leave again. There are other things I could do with my time.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
That's another problem with the CDF, they don't acknowledge any issues at all with the game and thus anyone who has issues, it must be all in their head and then come up with the same stock answers like you do and that is if your not happy leave
I also come onto the forums to fight statements like this. Really? You think Cryptic doesn't care at all about the players, who play their game and keep their company alive?
Again I say, Cryptic is a for-profit company. They are not about to give everything away for free, but there are certainly not trying to do things to deliberately anger the playerbase. I do find it funny how a lot of forumgoers things Cryptic is some horridly evil company with a kind of evil corporate greed motive. They are a company, and they produce video games to make money. I don't think this should at all be a shock.
There have been a lot of adjustments to the systems post-DR, and a lot of it has also come directly from player feedback. Not the kind of whine-about-everything 'feedback,' but actual feedback.
And I also don't think that they are doing anything particularly hurtful to the playerbase, beyond making us play the game to get the rewards and items, or giving us options to pay for additional content that we ourselves desire. No grind, and no purchase, is forced upon us. As players of the game, we choose to grind for certain rewards, or pay money for additional content. As a F2P game, absolutely nothing is forced on us. It's as simple as not joining in the Winter Event if we don't want to grind, not buying a T6 ship if we don't want to pay, and so on. Of course, Cryptic will continue to make content that entices us to grind or pay. Would anyone expect them not to make content? Would anyone expect them not to offer rewards to players who play or pay?
But ummax has definitely spelled it out very clearly. "When it stops being entertaining I stop playing." If players really have that much beef with Cryptic's supposed 'dirty' or 'misleading' practices (I have no idea how that's even conceivable, but haters gonna hate...), or if players are really that ticked off by the grind or pay requirements, then I don't understand why yelling and swearing on the forums is the next step of choice. Not everyone goes to the extreme with their posts, of course, but there's enough garbage littered across the forums (seriously, just scroll through a page or two of titles in the General Discussion area. Some of the thread titles are sickening) that it does in fact require some players to come in and say things that are positive from time to time.
But, haters gonna hate, and suddenly this thread about enjoying DR has essentially become a PvP zone.
EDIT: also thanks solomace, I didn't know exactly what CDF stood for either. I figured it was "Cryptic DeFenders" or something to that effect.
But, haters gonna hate, and suddenly this thread about enjoying DR has essentially become a PvP zone.
But isn't that just natural?
If you don't like the game and someone else is fine with it, you certainly don't want Cryptic to hear his voice - they might not change what you dislike!
So everything needs to be done to make differing opinions seem questionable and irrational.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Comments
But I'm glad you enjoy it
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
I don't disagree that lumping people into tropes is an easy way to disregard the argument, however, there is also something to be said for the fact that some people do, and always will "white knight" when anything is criticized. Take a look at how many people look back at the Pony Express as a model of complete efficiency. (note, I was going to reference a certain dictator elected in 1936 there, but it was too clich
And that's why Cryptic really has to be careful how to evaluate feedback here. People make up connections that don't exist, misinterpret stuff and what not.
The stock changes of PWE are based on Q3 numbers and whatever other market fickleness exist. Crptic and Startrek Online are nly a small part of that, and Delta Rising only appears in those numbers as cost - the sales for DR will go into Q4.
The problem is it's the same white nights yourself included, that come into any thread and defend the cryptic white nights and come up with the same excuses. That's not pigenholing, that's just a fact.
Why are you not having a go at the Op for pigeonholing anyone who doesn't like the game is a moaner?
We all know why.
Why do all you CDFers come to the forums anyway when you obviously love the game so much?
Why does it effect you so much when people moan or hate on the game?
The reason I come here is simple, I enjoy the forums more than the game. Why do you when you love this game so much.
I note most of the CDFers have 100s and 1000s of posts. I think they dislike the game more then there prepared to admit as they spend a lot of time posting.
I feel compelled to also point out that NWO isn't doing so hot either btw. ;D two major flagships can cause serious flops we've seen it before.
I'm often in the camp of supporting / defending the game, simply because I do actually enjoy playing it.
I originally came to the forums to join the conversations in the Romulan areas. Great debates going on there about the Republic, for instance.
But I also come on because of the insane amount of hate thrown at Cryptic on a regular basis. And a sad, sad amount of it is purely hateful comments with minimal critique, or critique that ends up being hidden behind the volume of hate. If someone doesn't come in and say how much they genuinely enjoy the game, then all the devs will see are comments of absolute garbage language, calls for firings, complaints over every new mechanic or item, and so on. It can't be a rewarding experience for the employees at Cryptic to see how regularly the forumgoers (I say forumgoers, not playerbase in general) completely trash-talk and personally insult people who are just trying to do their jobs and make a fun game.
Are there legitimate complaints to be stated about STO? Of course, and that's a major reason for the bug report forums, where the devs are in fact very active at replying. But seriously... the amount of poison thrown at the human beings behind the company logo is just inexcusable.
As well, I'm a little worried about ever again seeing Star Trek actors to join up for another storyline. If any of them read this kind of regular attacking - and again, often personal and abusive - about how 'terrible' the game and the expansion are, then there's a good chance many Star Trek actors are just going to walk away from STO or never join up at all. And it will be the playerbase's fault in general, because of a group of forumgoers who have taken the language of their criticism way too far.
If the game dies, it will not be the fault of Cryptic. It will be the fault of the loudest and most violently hateful complainers, who scare away the devs and VO talent. Valid, well-stated complaints are fine, but for the sake of the game, the attitude of hate and the hurtful language needs to be toned down a lot.
Like most modern games, it has gone the super-linear, sandbox free route. The drawback to that approach, aside from the inherent limited nature, is that it also needs constant infusions of content and/or shinies to keep the cashflow. It's cyclical - they need to produce more, more often, so they can fund the rapid development cycle to produce more, more often.
The benefits if the older (UO, AC, AO, etc.) open world MMOs is that in some cases it took YEARS for players to fully explore the world and experience all that it had to offer. One of those older games had a full planet map that would take 17 hours of real time to traverse in a straightline path. That gives time for slower development cycles with emphasis put on the quality rather than the quantity, or even just incredible quality on immense quantity in the case of some expansions.
Linear game design requires more and more frequent content - or in the case of modern shooters, a sequel every year or two. The more freeform it is (UT3 being a good example), the longer you can continue to sell the game because there are still new things to be experienced.
Actually, aside from the normal Terrible English 12-year-old-brigade, MOST of the DR complaint posts have been fairly well reasoned. Even the ones started by a hateful post have tended to evolve into real discussions.
We aren't usually talking about bugs, so no, most of this doesn't belong in the bug section. Most of it concerns the fact that the monetization has dictated DR design, rather that synergized with it.
And, not to justify them, but the majority of the "personal" attacks are directed towards certain persons who themselves have made outright insulting commentary concerning the player base.
As to the actors - this is in no way negative, but they are professionals. They have all been getting hate from Trekkies for the shows for a loooong time. They came for a paycheck. They will return for a paycheck, except for the ones who have a distinct dislike for their Trek experience in general (I'm looking at you, Kate Mulgrew).
The point is, most of these complaints simply are not attacking the art team, programmers, or even the managers - they are complaints stemming from the business model being dictated by the bean counters. We don't hate the VOs, we don't hate the art design, we hate being taken for a ride. Tacofangs didn't choose to introduce a $55 "microtransaction", or totally obsolete every formerly endgame item in the game - neither did Trendy, or Frost. Some beancounter in a green visor in some office did that.
The vitriolic posts are coming from the same corner they always did - the Anonymous A-hole Association. The majority of the commentary has been civil, if severe.
Nailed it.. absolutely spot on.
Most of us like a good portion of DR, but we have issues separate from the story line, voice actors, art direction, etc.
This post lays it out pretty well. Nicely done.
Thank you. I want the game to get back to the state where I feel comfortable playing it, and spending a reasonable amount of money in.
To do that, those of us who don't like things need to be calm and state the exact issues we have a problem with, without going all last-episode-of-The-Guild on the developers.
I'd also like to point out that those of us who weren't very impressed with DR overall such as myself saw it merely as "not my favorite story arc"... until such time as constant fiddling with mechanics, XP nerfs, and other such actions got up our noses (and by 'our' I mean 'my'... but I doubt I'm the only one).
Ironically though, if none of that constant fiddling and nerfing had been done, by now I would probably have reached 60 on all nine of my toons and moved all of them through DR simply for the sake of completeness and get them into position for any future storylines.
Cryptic has literally blocked their own goals :rolleyes:
Yeah...there are a lot of Vorks on these boards...
I understand that there's legitimate, well-stated ctiricism or suggestions out there. But there's also enough hate spewed that we're running into a problem. Case in point, the amount of personal attacks against Taco for his work on Club 47. That was... sickening. And when the login bug hit just after DR was launched Trendy was hit hard with some pretty nasty comments, all while she was trying to keep the forum updated with the latest information.
But, seems like on that point I'm preaching to the choir here, so that's a good sign
EDIT: hit the reply button too quickly...
I also really haven't minded the devs speaking about the business-related metrics, or designing content to keep people in the game. Cryptic is, of course, a for-profit business. And I'd expect them to entice the playerbase to spend money or time on the game, because without it they wouldn't have the resources to keep the business going.
The VO for Delta Rising, yes they got a paycheque. And that paycheque cost Cryptic real money. And in a F2P game, that means they need some type of return. Hence the new C-Store goodies, and rewards that require time spent in-game. I haven't felt it's a problematic model - I just suppose I can see it from both sides of the coin, as a player and from the business needs. And I understand the business needs must be met, in order for me to remain as a player.
But if Garrett Wang's pure enthusiasm is any indication, I don't think all of the VO that's come into STO has been in it for the paycheque. They're in it to have some fun with Star Trek again. So my concern is more along the lines that some forumgoers have been so openly hostile to DR to the point that some actors may feel it's not worth the risk or headache.
Problem is it was about 10-15x that and caused all the problems with leveling, with even having a desire to play the game due to the reduction in reward vs time being so insanely huge. The broken hitpoints on enemy's can easily be overlooked for the leveling time.
The hitpoint issue is the other real major beef for me. I've been playing games for 20+ years and never have I come across such a lazy scaling mechanic as employed in STO for difficulty levels. The enemy have rudimentary AI at best anyway, but to just increase Shield and Hull Hitpoints instead of actually giving the ships proper loadouts and a slightly more effective AI is ludicrous. It's just not acceptable for a released game IMO. The enemies pose no actual threat in any of the difficulty's, they are just literal time gates. Instead of having to wait them out you have to sit there waiting them out by hitting spacebar 5 million times (glad I have a mechanical keyboard!).
The final nail in the coffin though is the RNG R&D and Upgrade system. That's gotta be one of the least player friendly systems I've ever encountered. They are essentially the same system too, just implemented with different interfaces. I don't comprehend why for upgrading it costs Dil to apply each token. It should just apply the Dil cost on the final Upgrade point. For the R&D requiring people to find unique DoFF's to create the unique gear only to find it gated behind the Elite STF's is just swift punch to the ballsack.
Some people say it's not needed, others say just play and eventually you'll get there. I don't subscribe to those excuses for implementing poor gameplay decisions to attempt to force Dil purchasing via Zen. To me that's just a team that doesn't know how to integrate a F2P structure into a game which will encourage people to purchase the pay currency without it feeling like they are being goaded, forced or manipulated into it. Hell if they reviewed and lowered costs for a lot of item's coupled with changing the mechanics of things like XP Boosts they could increase revenue by a large margin.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
Anyhow just about to login again I got enough ephoph tags on two of my guys to make two of the christmas ephophs I have another two to run through that race. Then I am going to go play a round of the kobali ground zone on one guy and take another guy through the undine space battlezone.
agree totally, I too have been enjoying most of the content, one or two of the pve qued missions are ok but with most its just too darn easy to fail on silly things.
the exp gain is not bothering me particularly, I have all my characters to lv60 and that was my primary goal, I am not to fussed over the spec tree that will come over time.
I know there are a lot of players that this is bothering and I would like to see it fixed for their benefit.
the game will never be 100% perfect but if cryptic could fix the things that are bugging players the most then it will benefit not only the players but cryptic as well.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
It's such a crying shame that someone read a copy of "MMO Economics for Dummies" and then hamstrung all these amazing ideas and improvements. The team must have worked so hard and to see a beautiful area like the Kobali ground zone empty due to rewards being set so low must be heartbreaking for the people who worked on it.
To dismiss my complaints by saying "only 3% of players use the forums" makes it seem like you don't actually have a valid counter-argument for my complaints. I'm not complaining because I hate the game. If I hated the game I wouldn't play it. I'm just hoping that Cryptic's staff realise that over the long-term, their current approach - the current cash-grab - will bring them far less profit than the micro-transaction model they've been using for years.
Free Tibet!
(Second wife is a beautiful, strong woman who never feels the need to lie about anything; Nokia Lumia actually works better for me as a phone than the iPhone; and now I play and greatly enjoy STO and CO.)
TRIBBLE, I haven't been doing the Winter Wonderland because the big reward is a Breen ship, and I strongly dislike the Breen design aesthetic. I agree that it's nice that an alien POV can be considered in such matters - I just disagree with that species' POV, is all. So I don't get the ship, I don't participate in the activities, and (this is the important part, y'all here in the forums should listen up) I don't waste my time and energy complaining because someone else enjoys something I don't. Cuts down on my ulcer-medication expenditures considerably.
But you do spend the time and energy complaining about people who clearly have a problem with this game, as you come into every thread and spout how great Cryptic is and how great STO is and anyone who disagrees is a whiner, so I call butkiss on your statement.
Why not actually take some of your own advise and just play the game and ignore the forums? I know why. its because you and the rest of the CDF are so blinkered and blind, you cannot accept that people have genuine issues with the game and think it's your duty to defend Cryptic and STO to the hilt.
For what reason I don't know because Cryptic doesn't care about you just as much as it doesn't care about everyone on these forums.
Because a complaint isn't justifiable just because its made. Sure, to each his own but when you [generally] make a suggestion for how the game should be changed that suggestion must stand up to evidence (though not much of that can be expected at a forum level of discourse) and reason. If that's lacking then I for one am going to speak out about it because at best (assuming that I am indeed correct in this hypothetical situation) what's being proposed is an arbitrary change with greater odds of TRIBBLE something up than accomplishing any productive goal. At worst, its directly counter to either my or (when I'm in the mood to apply more objective thought to the problem, which mind you isn't just mob psychology) the population's interests.
This isn't just a club for a particular kind of special interest (within the STO community) Its [ostensibly] a place for open discussion and if you do indeed have an issue with those who don't blithely follow along with complaints then form a private forum and invite all those that you see fit to handle your agenda.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I didn't come on the forums before DR to complain or say much at all other than to look for advice on how to build ships, how to run STF's and so on.
I even enjoyed my time spent in game as the goals I was working towards (which were taking a lot of time) were achievable in a reasonable time frame and with a reasonable outlay. I was a beta tester, I hoped things would improve from Beta to Release, but they didn't so I left. Came back around the F2P conversion and levelled to 50, then left again as I didn't feel I was getting what I wanted out of the game.
When Legacy of Romulus released I was actually looking forward to it. I started playing again just in time to miss out on the Obelisk which was a frustration, but ignoring that I had a great time, even got a LoR starter pack and a lot of Rom ships which for me are my favourite faction. However issues with the ground zones and other factors in my life drew me away again.
Finally about April '14 I got back into STO. It had reached a point that was a lot of fun, the ship builds had a huge amount of depth which I liked, the DPS leagues were a good challenge as was getting a ship ready for PvP. The story content has always been secondary especially as it's nowhere near up to par for proper episodic or RPG quality storylines, but again my focus has always been the ships and the shipbuilding.
The fleet I had joined just got it's T5 Starbase complete a couple of days before DR, which was cool, I'd helped as much as possible with that push to T5, I'd saved up close to 1M Dil for the release and things were looking great.
However after DR drops, the Dev's decide to blame a development bug on the players and claim them as exploiter's. That was an incredibly sour note as it was the first time that I had experienced fun emergent gameplay in STO. After that a series of nerf's to any and every method of levelling that wasn't excessive grind runs through DQ patrol's reduced my desire to even bother. Up to that point I had also avoided the Upgrade system, primarily because all the gear I wanted to upgrade was either bugged at the time or relative to what was going to be released with DR. When I looked into it properly I almost fell out of my seat laughing. It's one of the worst designed upgrade systems I've seen, and I've seen a lot. It removes player rewards and gives them a lottery, one which can be failed an infinite amount of times due to the way RNG works. The cost of setting up a ship went through the roof, quite literally 100x if not 1000x the cost of setting up an endgame build.
I don't mind having a bit of cost to get a reward but when it's so blatantly a cash grab, on top of the other problems you are all probably right. It's more than likely time to walk away again. The difference this time is that I will feel cheated, robbed of the money I invested to enjoy a hobby that got turned into something that is so far removed from what it was before the expansion, what's more galling is I bought the expansion with the hope it would continue to be enjoyable after release as it had been before release. I was wrong, I admit it. However it doesn't give any of you the right to say the complaints of those who have been affected by the actions of the Dev's in a bad way are invalid or baseless as is the usual argument. When people invest time or money into something they enjoy which is altered, broken or damaged by a third party even if it's a service offered by the third party, people will react emotionally and usually with frustration or anger. Hence the forum's are still awash with complaints getting close to 2 months after release.
If you or Cryptic thought the people who were annoyed would just disappear eventually, well you were all rather shortsighted.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
err i dont speak abbreviation what is a 'cdf' type
and i only started using the forums they amuse me lol. A lot of people lack logic and the lack of logic is extremely amusing in many cases.
I live by a simple rule and its this
Entertainment is supposed to Entertain.
If its entertaining I partake if it stops being entertaining I stop partaking.
I have been doing this for many years.
I get the impression by the fact it appears after reading these forums long enough that in the eyes of some people cryptic can't do anything right.
NO! I mean it truly they dont even know how to turn on a pc and put one pant leg on before the other when dressing by the way in which some people post.
Those people portray this game as sheer drudgery. Now this is where logic should kick in and my own personal rule
that I have been using in gaming since well MMORPG"s were born
"when it stops being entertaining I stop playing"
I have been gaming since I was in my mid 30's and I am now over 50. I have seen all kinds of games and played all kinds of games. Some I hated and played for 2 seconds others I decided to fork over money to play longer for etc.
"when it stops being entertaining I stop playing"
So if its sheer drudgery obviously at this point I would not have run to the forum and posted an 'I quit' post in fact I would have just gone elsewhere.
IN fact I have done that with *this* very game yup. I am a beta tester I played for about a year after release and then.. *gasp* the game stopped being fun for me so *gasp* I stopped playing and only about 6 months ago *gasp* decided to return to play it again. There is now more content to play through and a whole host of new things that did not exist since I left so i ponied up some money and will play this game until I get tired of it again and then *gasp* I will just leave. :P
now if someone could tell me if I should be insulted I would like to know what 'CDF' means.
Good for you and there in lies the issue that you and the other CDF don't get or choose not to get and that is not everyone is like you. You all believe that if you like the game everyone should and if they don't they should just leave.
What you also cannot get into your heads is that most people on here that are not happy and are in the words of the CDF moaning and whining, don't want to leave, they want a game that they can enjoy and when they feel that enjoyment is being taken away from them, they come to these forums to voice their unhappiness which is another thing the CDF don't like.
That's another problem with the CDF, they don't acknowledge any issues at all with the game and thus anyone who has issues, it must be all in their head and then come up with the same stock answers like you do and that is if your not happy leave.
Oh and CDF = Cryptic Defense Force. Every few months a new leader comes out and they shout down everyone who has a problem. They all eventually move to the darkside and a few people that you and the other CDF have a problem with, were once part of your diminishing club.
Ofc we do have a few left that have been in the club since day 1, but everyone know's who they are and they are usually laughed at anyway.
Everything is awesome.
About 2 (now probably 2 and a half) years ago I left. I was into STO's PvP at the time, but the new addition like Refits and clickable power consoles back then made the already poor PvP balance worse, and the game had not seen an actual PvP expansion in forever. It's actually had lost a PvP game type entirely, and the only positive feature that was added were private PvP queues.
People were complaining and whining and moaing about PvP back then. They complained about failed promises. There was always talk about a future season that would bring some PvP enhancements. But that PvP season never came. And I don't think it ever will. But people kept playing the game and complaining. But nothing came of it - the lofty ideas dstahl and players described never came.
It is a futile endeavour. You should only do the things in this game that are fun to you. If what you would like to do cannot be done without a lot of unfun requirement fullfillment, don't try to muddle through. Tell Cryptic what you don't like what you would like to see, and if isn't happening, go. It will not make your wish come true any sooner than complaining will - but it will make your life better, because you can now do stuff again that you can like, and avoid all the negativity the stuff you didn't like brought into your life.
And maybe much later, you can come back to the game and find that what you wanted is there - or that something else is there that you like. Or it's still something you don't like - and you know now that it's not bad to leave again.
PvP hasn't gotten any better for STO, unfortunately. But I found that I like doing the new stuff, that I still love blowing up starships. But if it stops being fun, be it because it has become repetitive or Cryptic removes things or adds barriers - I can leave again. There are other things I could do with my time.
I also come onto the forums to fight statements like this. Really? You think Cryptic doesn't care at all about the players, who play their game and keep their company alive?
Again I say, Cryptic is a for-profit company. They are not about to give everything away for free, but there are certainly not trying to do things to deliberately anger the playerbase. I do find it funny how a lot of forumgoers things Cryptic is some horridly evil company with a kind of evil corporate greed motive. They are a company, and they produce video games to make money. I don't think this should at all be a shock.
There have been a lot of adjustments to the systems post-DR, and a lot of it has also come directly from player feedback. Not the kind of whine-about-everything 'feedback,' but actual feedback.
And I also don't think that they are doing anything particularly hurtful to the playerbase, beyond making us play the game to get the rewards and items, or giving us options to pay for additional content that we ourselves desire. No grind, and no purchase, is forced upon us. As players of the game, we choose to grind for certain rewards, or pay money for additional content. As a F2P game, absolutely nothing is forced on us. It's as simple as not joining in the Winter Event if we don't want to grind, not buying a T6 ship if we don't want to pay, and so on. Of course, Cryptic will continue to make content that entices us to grind or pay. Would anyone expect them not to make content? Would anyone expect them not to offer rewards to players who play or pay?
But ummax has definitely spelled it out very clearly. "When it stops being entertaining I stop playing." If players really have that much beef with Cryptic's supposed 'dirty' or 'misleading' practices (I have no idea how that's even conceivable, but haters gonna hate...), or if players are really that ticked off by the grind or pay requirements, then I don't understand why yelling and swearing on the forums is the next step of choice. Not everyone goes to the extreme with their posts, of course, but there's enough garbage littered across the forums (seriously, just scroll through a page or two of titles in the General Discussion area. Some of the thread titles are sickening) that it does in fact require some players to come in and say things that are positive from time to time.
But, haters gonna hate, and suddenly this thread about enjoying DR has essentially become a PvP zone.
EDIT: also thanks solomace, I didn't know exactly what CDF stood for either. I figured it was "Cryptic DeFenders" or something to that effect.
If you don't like the game and someone else is fine with it, you certainly don't want Cryptic to hear his voice - they might not change what you dislike!
So everything needs to be done to make differing opinions seem questionable and irrational.