First, it is a small group of posters, and it's easy for them to prevent civil discourse on the entire forum simply by being prolific and vitriolic. I note that many of the people who were most up in arms about there being a 5 minute lock out on posting are the same people who, in my opinion, contribute most to the overall sense of negativity on the forums.
Second, you are acting like no attempt has ever been made at reasonable discussion. It has, and some reasonable discussion has resulted. However, more commonly, if the OP is a reasonable critique, it quickly gets co-opted into the ongoing narrative of "everything Cryptic does is bad and wrong, and this game would be better off closed down than continuing down this path". If the OP is praise for some element of the game, it either gets turned into a fight about people being white knight fanbois, or else it gets co-opted with off topic complaints about other things, leading back to "everything Cryptic does is bad and wrong... yadda yadda yadda".
Third, many posts get made and are simply on face unreasonable. How does one reasonably respond to the idea that this game is terrible and only mindless sheep would ever play it? Or that people who are having fun in the game are part of the problem, because Cryptic needs to be stopped. Or that in order to make the game better we should all uninstall it for a month? Or that it is a slap in the face for the environment artist to tell paying customers that fixing bugs is not his job? And on and on and on. There is nothing to be gained from those threads - they should be locked and deleted immediately, and habitual poster along those lines should be banned, but right now that doesn't happen because people mistakenly believe that they have a right to express themselves here, and that all opinions are equally valid and worth expressing.
Your first paragraph you state as fact, yet you base it on your opinion of the group you describe.
I'd be more willing to believe your second paragraph if you gave an example.
And in your last paragraph, you discount any and all dissenting opinions as 'not worth expressing' because you do not know how to diplomatically deal with them.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
No really, it's a mess. Doom threads left and right, I quit threads, "gaem is ded" (cit.) threads. Are really people taking a game with all of this seriousness? :P
If you like it, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. You got the yet another thread in mind? Keep it for yourself. As it stands this subforum is worse than a circus.
Welcome to the insane asylu.....er i mean STO forum please contact your local psychiatris....i mean Moderator for your straight jacke.....i mean holiday greetings jacket and sweater.
Please remember to take your medica....i mean M&Ms and stop drooling damnit?!
oh and mondays thru thursdays is electroshock therapy sessions
fridays nights is poker night
saturdays and sundays you will be placed in your padded cel...i mean luxury suite
and remember welcome to the funny farm....i mean STO forums
How dare you try take away my right to read man children talk about Star Trek with a passion of a 14 year old girl...You're gonna have to take away this forum from my cold dead hands
Somebody disagreeing with folks isn't trolling. The OP isn't trolling...but the OP is being flamed.
True, but in this case it either is classic trolling or just another case of "complaining about complainers".
The OP didn't make a thread stating the things he likes and enjoys in STO, the OP didn't join in on a "complainer's thread" to politely disagree or state a counter opinion. The OP made a thread stating that a part of the forum should be closed/erased because people complain. Classic trolling, IMHO. He made the thread with the goal to be flamed, is it somehow strange that he is?
I mean, the OP is basically saying "if you think something needs to change, just leave, and let the rest wait for the end while playing"?
Try reading again. The OP is saying, "If you think the game is dead and you're just waiting for the end, and if you hate everything about it, go find something you do like."
I just wish when you click on new posts you could not be subscribed to some forums and let the discussions/rant happen in those that way those that want to read can and enjoy, those that don't can and enjoy.
seams simple and elegant to me in other words update the forums
New Lunar Republic
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
Yeah; that's the problem... PWE/Cryptic effectively has a monopoly, so they don't have to make the game not suck 'cause people will play anyway since there's really no competition >.<
....are you insane? What the hell is wrong with you?
STO is a completely luxury item, it is not needed in absolutely any way, shape, or form. Your statements only work on the mind boggling presumption that you're incapable of being without a Star Trek MMO and thus have to bow to the monopoly that Cryptic hold on it. You have to just throw money at them and use the product because WHAT OTHER STAR TREK MMO IS THERE!? OH THE HUMANITY!
They don't have to make the game not suck because you're morons.
Of his entire post, literally the only part that is completely inarguable is:
No really, it's a mess. Doom threads left and right, I quit threads, "gaem is ded" (cit.) threads. Are really people taking a game with all of this seriousness? :P
Ok, to complain about the complainers, since that seems to be the thread requirement. "Really" should modify 'taking' not people. "With all of this seriousness" could be replaced with "this seriously".
Now, as to the situation at hand. There are at least four kinds of people playing STO. Those who are Trekkies, those who are Trekkers, those who occasionally order a side-dish of Star Trek, and the professionally minded gamers.
Trekkies will want an environment in which they can be submerged into the Star Trek universe. Trekkies might be considered Star Trek Groupies, who are fans who find the world presented by Gene Roddenberry to be a world worth living in.
Trekkers are not so much into the submerged environment as they are into the expressed ideological values and consistancy with cannon. They are less trying to get into Star Trek, but more trying to live Star Trek ideals in the real world. Star Trek is revered as a philosophy for living.
Then there are those who play the game, but only have a casual acquaintence with Star Trek, for whom it is merely a cool story among many other cool stories. The game is something one can choose to be, or not be, a part of their entertainment.
Last, Professionally Minded gamers approach all games they choose to play with a focus almost strictly on game mechanics. They will bean count the best approach to minimize time spent to maximize gain ratio to achieve best statistics in PvP, PvE, and game economy. The reason they choose to play Star Trek may include a liking for Star Trek, or Science Fiction, or not. They may simply like the (ever changing) game mechanics.
Anger is the sum of fears realized. Fear is the apprehension of undesirable change. Doom threads are an expression of that fear. Quit threads are an expression of that anger. When entertainment is created within the milieu of a franchise with a serious fan base, the interest and expectations of that fan base must be met or the difference will anger and alienate them. For those who are more or less Professional Gamers or Casual Gamers who happened a long and are less attached to Star Trek itself, the value of the game is more in the play of it. These vectors of approach will create different oppinions wherein those who could care less about what Star Trek means will disregard the interests of those who care greatly.
If you like it, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. You got the yet another thread in mind? Keep it for yourself. As it stands this subforum is worse than a circus.
The "Love it or Leave it" ideology was written by a Spanish Jew during the inquisition in reference to being tortured and persecuted in one's native land. Spinoza then left his native Spain and moved to the Netherlands to avoid the Inquisition. Had he not belonged to a poorly armed, disenfranchised, and highly segmented minority he might very well have written to "Love it and Fix it" instead. He chose to leave rather than die. These conditions do not apply to STO, or at least the Mods have not initiated the use of thumbscrews and iron maidens just yet...
The fact is that when a company chooses to make a game in a franchise with a loyal fan base that is multi-generational and quickly approaching 50 years in the making, there is an obligation to get it right and keep it right. When that fan base is comprised of professionals (Doctors, Physicists, Sociologists, Lawyers, Accountants, Mathemeticians, Chemists, Politicians, etc.) there will be a higher level of academic expectation that every effort is made to get it right. To then see contuously broken or unfixed mechanics remain in an expression of something they revere calls for the very kind of outrage expressed in these forums. To see the cannon nodded at, no matter how vigorously, will remain an insult to the ideal. Taking on Star Trek was a massive business opportunity for Cryptic, but it is equally as massive an obligation.
Be daring, be different, be impractical, be anything that will assert integrity of purpose and imaginative vision against the play-it-safers, the creatures of the commonplace, the slaves of the ordinary. ~ Cecil Beaton
Folks complaining about folks complaining...
Folks complaining about folks complaining about complaining...
...cause well, all the folks that love to flame these threads really need a mirror. :rolleyes:
And well, if one obviously can't tell the difference between somebody complaining and somebody complaining about folks complaining...well, then they've obviously got other issues that can't be solved on the forums here.
Personally, I still haven't been able to decide whether the forums here serve as a warning for where our species is headed or if they give hope that not everybody's as bad as the folks found here...oh well, either way - it's sickening.
Most assuredly
And at least the general complainer feels validated about their complaint, the result of dissatisfaction or frustration at something in which they have invested time if not money. Repeated posts? repeated disatisfaction! Generally, people only complain about the things they want to work, things they care about. If they didnt care, they wouldnt bother. (I did say generally.. There are those with 'the issues' you mentioned)
Now someone who complains about complainers... Im thinking thats just someone who likes to complain, maybe even 1 of them that has 'the issues' you mentioned.
Either way.. It's all good reading with the right snacks
This Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey script could be of use to everybody. It will hide posts from specified users in the STO forum.
// ==UserScript==
// @name Star Trek Online Forum User Ignore
// @description Ignores users
// @include */showthread.php*
// ==/UserScript==
(function() {
var allT;
var allR;
var plonk = new Array();
var ignore_threads_from = ["troll1", "troll2", "troll3"];
for (var i = 0; i < ignore_threads_from.length; i++){
plonk[ignore_threads_from] = ignore_threads_from;
}
allT = document.getElementsByTagName('table');
for (var i = 0; i < allT.length; i++) {
if(allT.innerHTML.match(/This message is hidden because <strong>(\w+)<\/strong> is on your <a href=\"profile/)){
allT.style.display="none";
//Add ignored user to list of ignored users
plonk[RegExp.$1] = RegExp.$1;
}
}
// Remove posts that quote a user on the ignore list
for (var i = 0; i < allT.length; i++) {
for (var x in plonk) {
if(allT.innerHTML.match("Originally Posted by <strong>"+plonk[x]+"</strong>")){
allT.style.display="none";
}
if(allT.innerHTML.match("<div>[^]*This message is hidden because <strong>"+plonk[x]+"<\/strong> is on your <a href=\"profile")){
allT.style.display="none";
}
allR = document.getElementsByClassName('PW-postbit-userinfo');
allP = document.getElementsByClassName('PW-postbit');
// Remove posts started by a user on the ignore list
for (var i = 0; i < allR.length; i++) {
for (var x in plonk) {
if(allR.innerHTML.match(plonk[x])){
allR.style.display="none";
allP.style.display="none";
}
}
}
})();
Just replace or add the user names that you want to the ignore_threads_from var in the script. Note: Despite the variable name it will not hide threads, just individual user posts.
No really, it's a mess. Doom threads left and right, I quit threads, "gaem is ded" (cit.) threads. Are really people taking a game with all of this seriousness? :P
If you like it, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it. You got the yet another thread in mind? Keep it for yourself. As it stands this subforum is worse than a circus.
When you were young and your heart was an open book
You used to say live and let live
(You know you did, you know you did, you know you did)
But if this ever changin' world in which we live in
Makes you give in and cry
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
What other Star Trek mmo is there out there right now? yah...
Yeah, but MMOs kinda suck sometimes. Mostly because other players suck. Because people suck. Besides, there's this other game called star trek legacy that actually does a pretty good job of simulating star trek battles, and really does a good job with energy drain and cosmetics.
Comments
Your first paragraph you state as fact, yet you base it on your opinion of the group you describe.
I'd be more willing to believe your second paragraph if you gave an example.
And in your last paragraph, you discount any and all dissenting opinions as 'not worth expressing' because you do not know how to diplomatically deal with them.
Let's turn everyone into a developer apologist in OPs image that don't ask for nothing, stfu and pay whatever the developers tell them to, terrifc
Try and ask the Q&A team where they'd be without people telling them about the game's problem year in year out
get a cookie bro, you deserve it
Gotta PvP somewhere else when queues are not popping up.
You still have a lot to learn about forum PvP....
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
A cookie ?? Awesome !!!
... and don't worry man ... , you're not the only PVP forum escapee ...
lot of FPvP lately, hope everyone has fun with the Winter event, see you then! let's hope the ship is fun and awesomnesses, k i love you bye bye
I mean, the OP is basically saying "if you think something needs to change, just leave, and let the rest wait for the end while playing"?
You DO realize the same applies to "going to the Forums" ... ?!
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
People complaing about each other ...
NOW GET THE HELL OFF MY LAWN!
Anybody got any popcorn?
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Welcome to the insane asylu.....er i mean STO forum please contact your local psychiatris....i mean Moderator for your straight jacke.....i mean holiday greetings jacket and sweater.
Please remember to take your medica....i mean M&Ms and stop drooling damnit?!
oh and mondays thru thursdays is electroshock therapy sessions
fridays nights is poker night
saturdays and sundays you will be placed in your padded cel...i mean luxury suite
and remember welcome to the funny farm....i mean STO forums
Thus, the circle jerk continues indefinitely. Well at least until the mods swing the banhammer.
True, but in this case it either is classic trolling or just another case of "complaining about complainers".
The OP didn't make a thread stating the things he likes and enjoys in STO, the OP didn't join in on a "complainer's thread" to politely disagree or state a counter opinion. The OP made a thread stating that a part of the forum should be closed/erased because people complain. Classic trolling, IMHO. He made the thread with the goal to be flamed, is it somehow strange that he is?
That we can agree on.
seams simple and elegant to me in other words update the forums
"Where monsters rampage, I'm there to take them down! Where treasure glitters, I'm there to claim it! Where an enemy rises to face me, victory will be mine!" -Lina Inverse
....are you insane? What the hell is wrong with you?
STO is a completely luxury item, it is not needed in absolutely any way, shape, or form. Your statements only work on the mind boggling presumption that you're incapable of being without a Star Trek MMO and thus have to bow to the monopoly that Cryptic hold on it. You have to just throw money at them and use the product because WHAT OTHER STAR TREK MMO IS THERE!? OH THE HUMANITY!
They don't have to make the game not suck because you're morons.
Of his entire post, literally the only part that is completely inarguable is:
....and that's the only part you argued against!
Ok, to complain about the complainers, since that seems to be the thread requirement. "Really" should modify 'taking' not people. "With all of this seriousness" could be replaced with "this seriously".
Now, as to the situation at hand. There are at least four kinds of people playing STO. Those who are Trekkies, those who are Trekkers, those who occasionally order a side-dish of Star Trek, and the professionally minded gamers.
Trekkies will want an environment in which they can be submerged into the Star Trek universe. Trekkies might be considered Star Trek Groupies, who are fans who find the world presented by Gene Roddenberry to be a world worth living in.
Trekkers are not so much into the submerged environment as they are into the expressed ideological values and consistancy with cannon. They are less trying to get into Star Trek, but more trying to live Star Trek ideals in the real world. Star Trek is revered as a philosophy for living.
Then there are those who play the game, but only have a casual acquaintence with Star Trek, for whom it is merely a cool story among many other cool stories. The game is something one can choose to be, or not be, a part of their entertainment.
Last, Professionally Minded gamers approach all games they choose to play with a focus almost strictly on game mechanics. They will bean count the best approach to minimize time spent to maximize gain ratio to achieve best statistics in PvP, PvE, and game economy. The reason they choose to play Star Trek may include a liking for Star Trek, or Science Fiction, or not. They may simply like the (ever changing) game mechanics.
Anger is the sum of fears realized. Fear is the apprehension of undesirable change. Doom threads are an expression of that fear. Quit threads are an expression of that anger. When entertainment is created within the milieu of a franchise with a serious fan base, the interest and expectations of that fan base must be met or the difference will anger and alienate them. For those who are more or less Professional Gamers or Casual Gamers who happened a long and are less attached to Star Trek itself, the value of the game is more in the play of it. These vectors of approach will create different oppinions wherein those who could care less about what Star Trek means will disregard the interests of those who care greatly.
The "Love it or Leave it" ideology was written by a Spanish Jew during the inquisition in reference to being tortured and persecuted in one's native land. Spinoza then left his native Spain and moved to the Netherlands to avoid the Inquisition. Had he not belonged to a poorly armed, disenfranchised, and highly segmented minority he might very well have written to "Love it and Fix it" instead. He chose to leave rather than die. These conditions do not apply to STO, or at least the Mods have not initiated the use of thumbscrews and iron maidens just yet...
The fact is that when a company chooses to make a game in a franchise with a loyal fan base that is multi-generational and quickly approaching 50 years in the making, there is an obligation to get it right and keep it right. When that fan base is comprised of professionals (Doctors, Physicists, Sociologists, Lawyers, Accountants, Mathemeticians, Chemists, Politicians, etc.) there will be a higher level of academic expectation that every effort is made to get it right. To then see contuously broken or unfixed mechanics remain in an expression of something they revere calls for the very kind of outrage expressed in these forums. To see the cannon nodded at, no matter how vigorously, will remain an insult to the ideal. Taking on Star Trek was a massive business opportunity for Cryptic, but it is equally as massive an obligation.
Most assuredly
And at least the general complainer feels validated about their complaint, the result of dissatisfaction or frustration at something in which they have invested time if not money. Repeated posts? repeated disatisfaction! Generally, people only complain about the things they want to work, things they care about. If they didnt care, they wouldnt bother. (I did say generally.. There are those with 'the issues' you mentioned)
Now someone who complains about complainers... Im thinking thats just someone who likes to complain, maybe even 1 of them that has 'the issues' you mentioned.
Either way.. It's all good reading with the right snacks
Just replace or add the user names that you want to the ignore_threads_from var in the script. Note: Despite the variable name it will not hide threads, just individual user posts.
Nice array use, and very light weight, +1
Link Response: "Live And Let Die" ~ Guns N' Roses
Mods have a funny way of doing this, let's see how the rest of this unfolds first. hehe
Probably start by moving it to Ten Forward...
the OP had at least some merit though, a LOOTTTT more then the usual disputes lately now everything is getting bitten.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Yeah, but MMOs kinda suck sometimes. Mostly because other players suck. Because people suck. Besides, there's this other game called star trek legacy that actually does a pretty good job of simulating star trek battles, and really does a good job with energy drain and cosmetics.