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Guardian - What are the thoughts on the ship?
alexanderd12
Member Posts: 23 Arc User
Hi all.
As someone who hasn't been able to play STO since DR due to various errors, I've finally been able to log in today (yay!)
As a Tac who's been flying the Tac Odyssey for a while, I'm tempted by the Guardian (mainly because it's a T6 with all the added bonuses therein). I'm curious whether anyone out there has jumped from a Tac Odyssey to a Guardian and what their impressions are - and if it's a choice you've regretted, or not. Enquiring minds want to know!
I used to fly the Assault Cruiser (primarily because I've loved the Sovereign since First Contact), but eventually made the jump to the Odyssey.
Thanks in advance!
As someone who hasn't been able to play STO since DR due to various errors, I've finally been able to log in today (yay!)
As a Tac who's been flying the Tac Odyssey for a while, I'm tempted by the Guardian (mainly because it's a T6 with all the added bonuses therein). I'm curious whether anyone out there has jumped from a Tac Odyssey to a Guardian and what their impressions are - and if it's a choice you've regretted, or not. Enquiring minds want to know!
I used to fly the Assault Cruiser (primarily because I've loved the Sovereign since First Contact), but eventually made the jump to the Odyssey.
Thanks in advance!
Post edited by alexanderd12 on
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The Intel slot is basic at best at liutenant, If I could sell it back and change the ship I would.
If you fly galaxy class at all its more like those slow to turn and cumbersome.
but thats my personal preference, I went back to my oddy and upgraded that, yeah i loose out on some stuff but for some reason my oddy does a way better job.
I've been using the Eclipse since D.R. launched and loving it.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You should at the very least check it out.
There are different options that can be applied and with all the skin variants you might be able to create something tolerable for your eyes.
It's basically an updated STARGAZER.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Don't let these other people fool you the Guardian is the best Starfleet cruiser in the game in my opinion. Looks wise its the best of both worlds with a mix of the C and D. Use wise it is better then the Tac Odyssey tankier with thicker shields and a better hull. 3 tac and 3 sci consoles with 4 engi. The BOFF layout is amazing LTC Tac and LTC sci as well as your standard COM Engi LT Intel/engi. This is by far my favorite SHIP in the game let alone cruiser. I have all the T6 ships in the game and it is so much better then all of them.
The Guardian is on my list of ships to get for the 5th trait... but as it stands I'm curious about how a Tier 6 Fleet ship would work out [do you have to re-grind all 4 mastery traits again if you already did the CStore T6 ship or do you get to grind up to the 5th Mastery trait if you never bought the CStore ship].
I really prefer to just grind once for the fraking ship traits. But that's why I haven't bought any new ship yet, including Dauntless, aside from the Pathfinder due to the Voyager interiors sale bundle.
Yeah, check my sig, I hated the looks of the ship until I bought the phantom and slapped those Nacelles on it. Just like my sig.
Way to make me spend money cryptic, tease with them nacells in the Tailor, but figured the trait from the phantom would also make the purchase worth it in the end.
Intel powers be crazy, yo.
You give up the Commander level Engineering powers, which aren't great, and get Surgical Strikes 2, which is nuts. +40% Critical Chance and Severity.
Then you give up the Lieutenant level Engineering slot for Override Subsystem Safeties....which is nuts. It dumps a load of power into ALL your systems for 20 seconds, then at the end one random subsystem is offlined for 4 seconds. Which doesn't matter because you can clear that effect with Engineering Team.
Oh and it still has a Lt. Com tactical seat, so you get all that Intel hilarity while still retaining BFAW 2 and APB.
Like...OMG, WTF d00d.
It's a really good cruiser in its own right. Stats are great, bridge layout is great....then you add some silly Intel abilities and it turns into a harbinger of death unless the person piloting it is an utter pudding.
The Guardian has retired every ship my Fed owns. It's a great ship.
As far as Tactical Options, it has almost as many as the Odyssey, but the addition of the Intel Powers and a Gravity Well push the ship over the top. Personally, I use 2 copies of Override System Safeties to push my power levels past the cap. In the Odyssey, like all T5 ships, your power is capped at 125. On the Guardian, I'm able to hit 165 on my Weapons power which gives a huge gain in damage. Add on the console ability to strengthen my shields by 75% and the ability to use a Gravity Well and it's just hands down a better ship.
I agree with your whole post except this part. You will be a little softer in the Guardian. The Guardian has an inferior hull and shield modifier to a T5U Odyssey or a Fleet Assault Cruiser. Numbers wise, it's not a significant difference, but I have noticed my Shields deplete faster on the Guardian then they did on my FAC. The ships included console helps with that though and while I take some damage from time to time, it's extremely rare that I actually get in real danger even in STFs. The Guardian might feel slightly softer at first but the damage output will make you feel more powerful overall. The difference is slight, but it's there. Once the Fleet Guardian becomes available the Guardian will be superior in every possible way.
For simple comparison, the Guardian is superior to the Odyssey. I don't regret my purchase one bit and if I had a 'do over,' I would buy the ship again without hesitation. If you're curious, the build I use is in my signature.
Just out of interest, for those with the Eclipse, as it can use cannons, do you find those more effective? That said, I know a lot of it is down to how you prefer to fly.
Guardian - Well balanced T6 Cruiser that can do everything. Even with limited access to Intel abilities, those things like OSS can help bring its firepower up quite a bit when you kick off a high powered attacks. LtCdr SCI station gives quite a bit of flexibility. Use it for more heals or even CC with GW. Lots of room. EPTW3, BFAW3, APB1, DEM3, with OSS1 and/or OSS2? Why not? Because you can do that with the Guardian. In short, this is what the Galaxy-class should have been: A tough, sturdy Cruiser that was shown to do a wide array of things, just as the Ent-D did in TNG.
- Looks: The Guardian's look has grown on me because it does retain it's traditional Starfleet "look." On top of being a good all-around performer, it's a nice T6 ship.
- Fleet T6 guess: Currently it only has 4 ENG Consoles. When the Fleet T6 version hits, it surely will go 5 ENG Consoles.
Eclipse - The TAC Cruiser. Highly maneuverable. The Hybrid Intel stations bring tremendous flexibility and potentially a lot of firepower. The ship currently only has 3 TAC Consoles but the Intel abilities easily make up for it. When the Fleet T6 version comes out, I expect it to have +1 TAC Console. It already has 5 ENG consoles and has no LtCdr SCI station like the Guardian does. So the Fleet Eclipse will be a 5 ENG / 4 TAC Cruiser when the time comes.
- Looks: You can make the Eclipse look passable, but Intel ships in general aren't "lookers," that's for sure.
Eclipse - Good turnrate (great for a fed cruiser), good basic starship traits, very good special ship trait (effectively an additional neutronium when fully stacked). Also unless Cryptic has a major logic failure, the fleet version should get a 4th tac console. It's basically the Sovvy of the T6 ships.
Comes with a built in cloaking device, which is useful for getting into a specific position and not drawing aggro when doing it. For example Vicious Cycle, where it will help you get in position to beam commandos.
It has the "gather intel" ability, which once it stacks to a certain amount it allows you to apply a debuff. My personal fave is the one that reduces the damage resistance by 33 for 10 seconds.
Unlike the Guardian the Eclipse has access to lt Cmdr and Cmdr Intel powers, a few of which are very useful.
Intelligence Team is rather useless up until Intelligence Team 3, where it actually has a useful impact in a fight.
Surgical Strike, which is only available at Lt Cmdr and Cmdr, is great for when you want to apply high damage to one target rather than spread it about with FAW.
Ionic Turbulence at higher levels is insane.
Override Subsystem Safeties at lvl 3 gives you a huge boost to power (and ignores the cap), with only losing a subsystem for 2 seconds.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Give it a Neutronic torp and your preferred choice of beam weapons (I'd suggest Bio Phaser or Bio Disruptor and the CC Tactical Console for bonus Rad damage as well as a bit of Phaser/Disruptor boost), and it serves pretty damn well being a jack-of-all-trades and a master of tanking.
First is the commander-level intel seat... so very good (compared to just LT seat for guardian)
Second is it's much higher mobility
Most importantly, which I didn't see anyone bring up yet, is that the Eclipse get the Battlecruiser ship mastery levels, which are much better (some DPS bonus and some Tanking bonus) than the Guardian's which gets the Cruiser ship master levels (all Tanking).
The name of the game isn't tanking, it's DPS. Think Eclipse... think DPS of an escort and survivability of a cruiser. It is fantastic.
Guardian has access to 3 different Lt Cmdr Stations. Not a shabby layout by any means. But really and of course, it's the ship mastery from the Eclipse and the Phantom that make this ship's layout shine. Combined they essentially double the rate at which you can use the Intel and Tac abilities.
Anyway, not to bother with that at this time, but I would like to point out that you're missing the boat on what the good part of the Eclipse Mastery is. It's the defense buff. It adds 23% defense full stacked. And as it's essentially avoidance it will outperform what you'll get from the resistance rating likely around 6% damage reduction, possibly more if you're the sort of player that likes to run light on passives and heavy on active abilities. And yes it is about what a fleet Mk XII Neut will yield.
Cheers.
EDIT: For example if you consider getting all the Intel ships mastery. Then look at say a fleet T5U Fleet Patrol. Well you really can't even USE all those slots for tactical now can you? So you could dump in a nice Lt Cmdr Sci in the uni slot instead. You can still run a nice DCE engineering scheme. Don't need Aux to bat, or even to doff Attack Patterns for Omega as...Reciprocity takes care of that. Essentially. Not perfectly. Just damn close for a what you gain by not needing those doffs. So maybe strictly speaking these ships on their own aren't top choices, but with the traits you open up more possibilities that just weren't practical before.
The only reason I got the Guardian instead was because it was a close comparison and the Eclipse is the absolute most hideous thing I have ever seen in my entire life.
If they made an actual Star Trek ship with the Eclipse layout.. I would buy it. Instead, I bought the Guardian and I'm quite happy with it. I just could never bring myself to fly around in that monstrosity even though it is a slightly better ship.
What do those experienced Eclipse users recommend in terms of weapons, Intel powers, etc. I used to use beam phasers on both the Assault cruiser and Odyssey, but was always aware that they weren't the most powerful/effective. I'm open to using cannons, or even beams, depending.
In terms of Intel abilities, I note lordkhorak suggested Surgical Strikes and OSS - both of which sound great!
Thanks again to all those who have taken the time to respond.
Other slots I use:
TT, Beta, Omega
ST 1, Hazzard II
ET 1, EPTS1, EPTW 3
Pol Hul 1
But, since I got the reprocity trait been thinking of changing things.
Like take ISA. I pop OSS+SS and make one loop around the transformer poping each Generator, Then if OSS and SS arent ready I'll immediately Tag a sphere or 2, not to kill but tag, Then target the Transformer. Because by tagging them they will usually shoot at you, which with Reprocity gives me OSS+SS right then for the transformer.
And usually Omega and beta both come off cooldown together with Reprocity so Omega gets used more then Beta, same for using OSS2 and SS2 more then the weaker versions. it's not full proof, but Reprocity makes it were I can use the better higher level versions more often.
But, always wanted a single target broadside build. With only Beam Overload in the past, that wasnt good enough. I came from loving the pirate games. Broadsiding one ship, focusing and killing that thing. With this setup, going into a CCA, its awesome to target a Recluse and kill it now. Not target it and faw the other 50 targets around, but saying, Yeah Im taking you down now. lol
These Intel powers brought the fun up to a new level for me at least. Never liked being a Disco Ball of Death that FAW has become. I wouldn't mind working it back into my build for when theres a bunch of small TRIBBLE around, but doesn't matter, when theres alot of small TRIBBLE, with OSS and SS, just hump the space bar and they all auto pop anyways. But, love beam arrays getting such a focused Fire mode that OSS and SS gives them.
I got it for a alt and a few days ago decided to use it on my main to get the trait.
Now its Sophie's choice, do i keep the amazing Guardian or go back to my love, the Odyssey?
"It appears we have lost our sex appeal, captain."- Tuvok
I'm enjoying the Guardian as a tac.
My preferences so far in the game has been with escorts, primarily with cannon builds. I purchased the Operations Pack for Delta Rising, and worked my way through all four ships for the Ship mastery Traits, leaving the Guardian for the end.
At first I didn't know what to make of it. I like the Oddy for my engineering toon, but never really felt at home in a cruisers as a Tac captain.
The new intel escort was my go-to tac ship. Even though the Guardian puts out less dps, the flexibility of the boff seating is what made me rethink my ship choice. I switched back to the Guardian, and have not looked back since.
I've upgraded a fill set of gear, and use elite fleet phasers. Even on an 'off run' it can put out enough dps fro all the advanced stfs. When I can play them. When there are people in the queues.
Definitely Guardian.
Just for the intel powers alone the Guardian is worth it. If you're going from a Tactical Odyssey the Guardian also has the ability to use Gravity Well which is pretty sweet. :cool:
I think people tend to look at the 3 tac consoles and assume the Guardian puts out inferior DPS. I admit, I did this too at first. The Guardian can be setup so many ways though that it's capabilities can be deceptive. The Guardian can absolutely out DPS many 4 Tac console ships like the Assault Cruiser or the Odyssey. I am still surprised sometimes at the damage my Guardian puts out, especially in STFs.
I do not share the opinion that the Guardian is an attractive ship. Always dislike the Ent-C/D style and this is an amalgam of both. The Eclipse with the Scyre ship necells is much more attractive. However, and this was on my Eng, the most fun i had was getting the mastery of the Phantom. That was my 3rd mastery. Now working on the T6 Intrepid which is a real pain. So far I've not found a "Perfect" T6 ship, just gaining masteries to use on my T5-U ships.
If they follow through and make a Guardian X with a better lance than the Galaxy X (because Saucer Sep and Cloak were relatively worthless; moreso now in the case of the Saucer Sep due to the Separation and Pet nerf), and can fire it in narrow BFG or BFG pulsewave form just by choosing a the appropriate tray power (two choices like Haakona Dual-Vector; forcing a CD on the other choice), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Of course, only as long as it doesn't have the ridiculous 3rd Nacelle. Especially not when it has two pylon nacelles that could either be enlarged some or could be made full-sized nacelles on sightly raised pylons. 2 or 4 Nacelles Cryptic; not 3. Then you can have my money.
Same, Now I love the Guardian on my Tac. Tanky and puts out alot more DPS then I thought it would. Most Consoles now Upgraded to MK XIV, not epic. And basic Rom Plasma/Corrosive Plasma MK XII mix. Doing 25k+ in ISA Pug.
And the Uni console it comes with has been a surprise. Very nice. Ship really surprised me.
It's just beautiful from any angle. IMO the best looking new federation ship in the game.
Even with all the TRIBBLE from Cryptic on XP, Dilithium etc getting me down, this ship feels like Star Trek. I actually enjoyed an STF for the first time in a month because I loved watching it fight.
My engineer took it into ISA for the first time today, and with virtually no tweaking hit 12K without trying. I'm running a non-upgraded Mk XII reman space set, with the Romulan space weapons set. The best I could do in my Oddy (same layout) was about 9K.
Waiting on the costs nerf coming this thursday before I start upgrading her.
Maybe that's why I haven't bothered buying it... and I'm waiting for a proper Galaxy Class still.
I do however, wish the ship had more customization options, they are currently very limited. Every Guardian looks the same with the exception of set item visuals.
Performance wise though, I certainly can't complain. The ship really is a well rounded ship that's good at absolutely everything. It can dish some pretty heavy damage while taking a heck of a beating. When the Fleet version eventually comes around it will be even better.
After getting the Guardian, I haven't flown any other ship on my Fed. The Guardian does everything all my other ships do all in one ship. And it does most of those things better then my other ships.