I usually do heals when I'm not tanking half the instance in my little sci ship. I've mostly built around debuffing and CC so throwing off a heal in the thick of it isn't really in the cards. What I have noticed is that when an engieer or sci gets swamped, the DPS guys tend to bugger off and not clear the crowd. I can do CC and debuff quite well but I am definitely not built for DPS, takes forever to clear a mob sometimes.
More often it's better tactics. In the REAL army (which I served in) boots on the ground favored covering each other's backs. More men alive meant more firepower. It wasn't exclusive to superior weapons. We acted as a TEAM, not as individuals.
That's actually been a feature of most military organizations since Alexander of Macedon, (or more likely his father, Philip), organized the first battlefield medics.
That said, back on topic - I heal my teammates in PUGs on a regular basis. Nobody ever seems to notice.
Okay, I know this is going to generate flack, but what the hell. I'm a Sci and I can hold my own aggro'ing ships and being able to heal and kill at the same time. What I don't appreciate is the comment I got yesterday of 'fkin low DPS'er!' whilst in Hive Onslaught ADV. I mean come on! Everyone knows that to do the Borg missions YOU NEED A SCI! I keep my privacy set so people can't see my builds, but basically it's alot of BFW, TSpread, Grav Wells, on top of alot of AoE damage abilities! What also gets my goat is that these 'Parsers' are so inaccurate. I can get place regularly 3rd place upward in CE Adv in an Intrepid or Mobius Sci for God' sake and even proven a 'Parser' wrong when they claimed they had 1st place according to their 'Parser', when I actually had it!
But I digress. I'll heal if I'm not inundated with holding back aload of spheres or picking up aggro myself. What I won't do is heal an Uber-DPS nut that decides everyone should be following him as he has highest DPS and believe me, one guy actually said that. I've been in a few where these guys wreck the mission because of their own over-inflated realisation of self-importance. What Uber-DPS guys have to realise is that Sci and Eng Captains actually have to use tactics rather than try to kill something in 1 shot. The NPC ship update, which I really like as it's now a really good scrap, makes tactics far more important, although Cryptic are caving to make things too easy and too quick again (especially levelling).
I also think a major redesign is needed on all ships to include proper weapon arcs and realisitic weapon loadouts as in 'SFC'! The power drain in this game is superficial also and needs to be properly representative when someone is firing all their 8 Beams/Cannons. In SFC that would be a MASSIVE drain.
In all. All you guys that think us Sci's are a waste of space in this game just remember this, we are the magicians that make things easier for you, not the other way around. If I can kill off Borg Cubes and Tac cubes in area RA's and almost kill off the gunship without getting killed once in a Sci Vessel (and I'm talking SOLO), then just imagine what havoc a skilled Sci Captain is causing in STF's!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I guess the OP has never been lucky enough to be on the same PUG as me because i heal teammates all the time with HE and TSS.
Depending on what i am piloting sometimes APB gets thrown into the mix.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
What also gets my goat is that these 'Parsers' are so inaccurate. I can get place regularly 3rd place upward in CE Adv in an Intrepid or Mobius Sci for God' sake and even proven a 'Parser' wrong when they claimed they had 1st place according to their 'Parser', when I actually had it!
Your place in CE is not related entirely to your DPS. A lot of factor intervene, like killing Tholians, and most importantly, healing. Having the rom valdore console will, for example, help you greatly thanks to the continuous heal.
I'm used to be top 3 in CE in my wells because I heal like mad. My DPS however is not even 10K. I even finished 1rst a bunch of time in my wells.
The only way parser are wrong, except when player error is involved, is when you are far away from the guy with the parser. Or when you hit invulnerable target (it will increase your DPS, but in fact, you are doing nothing useful).
Otherwise, parser are extremely accurate.
A parser is a tool, how you use it is up to you. Just like every tool, it's never right nor wrong, it's only adapted or not, and open to your interpretation.
Pretty much all of my builds carry a decent amount of heals and, yes even though every toon of mine is a tac, I still toss out heals to team mates quite often but, they need stay within range of me.
My SCI Rom is as much of a healer as I can make him. True, there are no true heals in game and whatnot. But applying buffs at the right time can contribute to the healing abilities of the ship it's applied to. So no, I'm not a hypocrite, as you so obviously imply.
I am trying to imply that complaining about how others play in this game is stupid. If you have a SCI character and tried to make it as healy as possible, why did you make the assumption that they were meant to be played as 'healers'? Just play your Rom and be satisfied that you are contributing to a PUG when they get in over their heads.
To put this answer simply as possible...boy that's a challenge. but I'll take a stab at it:
1. Most people don't know how to properly build a ship, either they're using random junk abilities OR going for pure DPS with zero heals on board. But mostly a lot of people who do advanced/elite don't know how to build ships for versatility in combat. I could do more burst DPS on my builds sure... but then I wouldn't live through any of the things I do. I've found if you never die you do more damage/DPS than bursting really high followed by you exploding shortly after. There are a FEW builds that can do both, but they're expensive to do and not everyone can afford to.
2. More and more the meta game is about doing a large amount of damage VERY quickly due to timers and skewed hull/shield HP. In a pug you don't know what you're gonna get so everyone brings a DPS build expecting that everyone else's DPS may suck in order to make the timers and not fail the mission. Time constraints and high numbers to go through almost require the entire team to be high DPS with a max of maybe 1 person being high utility.
(In my own fleet we cover each other with heals as much as possible, and for instance... bring a drain build to use on really powerful enemies with huge hull/shield numbers so that the DPS will be more effective. You can't plan for this in PUGs)
I'm sure there's thing I didn't touch on, but out of time to read through the thread right now, so hope this brings at least a little clarity to a couple things at least.
Somehow, though, most of them aren't too good at it.
To the OP, it's simple. Many people probably do not even know that they can send heals to others. It's not like there's tons of missions where you're required to heal others, not even NPCs. If they do discover the possibility, they most likey stumble upon it by accident.
Which is why I usually pull the all the aggro when I'm flying my sci. I barely need any heals myself and the others are relatively safe. It's better than sending heals to everyone and seeing them killed anyway, because they don't have the slightest clue how to utilize that added survivability.
Although sometimes I think that it's kinda counterproductive.
Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
Okay, I know this is going to generate flack, but what the hell. I'm a Sci and I can hold my own aggro'ing ships and being able to heal and kill at the same time. What I don't appreciate is the comment I got yesterday of 'fkin low DPS'er!' whilst in Hive Onslaught ADV. I mean come on! Everyone knows that to do the Borg missions YOU NEED A SCI! I keep my privacy set so people can't see my builds, but basically it's alot of BFW, TSpread, Grav Wells, on top of alot of AoE damage abilities! What also gets my goat is that these 'Parsers' are so inaccurate. I can get place regularly 3rd place upward in CE Adv in an Intrepid or Mobius Sci for God' sake and even proven a 'Parser' wrong when they claimed they had 1st place according to their 'Parser', when I actually had it!
Nice how little you know of this game. First, you DONT NEED Scis in STF, especially not for GW, other classes and ships can do that too (Narcine, Prometheus etc.). They [Scis] are, however, not a hindrance, and if used correctly are of course quite useful. The only STF where they as class (not as ship-user) come in handy is HSA/E, as they can subnuke the feedbackpulse.
Second, the placing this game uses in Crystalline Entity is based on heal and DPS, with more weight to heal. Thats why a good captain on a sciship or a scimitar with valdore-console easily wins this, as you simply need to inflate heal here. Meaning the parser is accurate that others are far better in dps, but one can simply outheal dps, especially with heals such inflated as now.
For the moment you are the one with the overinflated ego, because you are neither as great or as useful as you might think.
So before posting in this forum, how about learning about the game first, so such chunk of misinformation doesnt happen?
Somehow, though, most of them aren't too good at it.
To the OP, it's simple. Many people probably do not even know that they can send heals to others. It's not like there's tons of missions where you're required to heal others, not even NPCs. If they do discover the possibility, they most likey stumble upon it by accident.
Which is why I usually pull the all the aggro when I'm flying my sci. I barely need any heals myself and the others are relatively safe. It's better than sending heals to everyone and seeing them killed anyway, because they don't have the slightest clue how to utilize that added survivability.
Although sometimes I think that it's kinda counterproductive.
Nothing against you poster but, all it takes is some reading a simple skill description and, testing it out to figure these issues out.
But, this is something I see wayyyyyy to often in game, that people are either to stupid or, to ignorant or, even to lazy to even read, let alone experiment or, plain figure things out for themselves.
No, they prefer others to hold their hands and, lead them to the holy grail.
I heal others in pugs always have but I don't go out of my way to heal someone. If the person is in range or close enough to me to get there quickly I heal them if it is ready. If you are going to take agro a lot you might want your resistance up and have heals. Only working on dps and not the rest of ship you won't last long being a tank. The other players are also fighting the enemy not just you so it can be easy to miss or not notice you need help. If you are depending on someone else to heal you because you don't have the heals to keep yourself alive long enough for them to help. You are doing something wrong if that is the case.
I gave up chasing people down to heal them because I die trying to get to them.
I heal others in pugs always have but I don't go out of my way to heal someone. If the person is in range or close enough to me to get there quickly I heal them if it is ready. If you are going to take agro a lot you might want your resistance up and have heals. Only working on dps and not the rest of ship you won't last long being a tank. The other players are also fighting the enemy not just you so it can be easy to miss or not notice you need help. If you are depending on someone else to heal you because you don't have the heals to keep yourself alive long enough for them to help. You are doing something wrong if that is the case.
I gave up chasing people down to heal them because I die trying to get to them.
Lol, for me it isn't so much me dying trying to get to them.
It's them dying, by keep running further and further out of range, before I can even chase them down some 20km from their own target.
If you need rely on some extra heals, well..... guess what? It really helps to try and stay close to someone who can help!
Nice how little you know of this game. First, you DONT NEED Scis in STF, especially not for GW, other classes and ships can do that too (Narcine, Prometheus etc.). They [Scis] are, however, not a hindrance, and if used correctly are of course quite useful. The only STF where they as class (not as ship-user) come in handy is HSA/E, as they can subnuke the feedbackpulse.
Second, the placing this game uses in Crystalline Entity is based on heal and DPS, with more weight to heal. Thats why a good captain on a sciship or a scimitar with valdore-console easily wins this, as you simply need to inflate heal here. Meaning the parser is accurate that others are far better in dps, but one can simply outheal dps, especially with heals such inflated as now.
For the moment you are the one with the overinflated ego, because you are neither as great or as useful as you might think.
So before posting in this forum, how about learning about the game first, so such chunk of misinformation doesnt happen?
Shame, shame. And you just prove my point. By the way, been playing since 2010 and I know this game extremely well thanks. I don't generally post in forums because guys like you don't check to see what the other guy actually knows first!
A point that I make to my fleet mates...."Make sure you can take care of yourselves on the battlefield as you can't expect others to come running to your aid if they themselves can't take care of themselves". I think it's pretty laughable you say I have the ego, when I'm the one being moaned at when I don't hit a certain DPS. All I said is that I can take the punishment as well as give it, whereas others can only give the punishment! I get a buzz flying Elite patrols solo, gives more of the 'epic' battle buzz. Also, you forgot to give an example of my 'over-inflated ego' so you might want to re-read what I put. And yes, I will argue the Sci's case, in my opinion it's way more fun than the Tac experience the way you just put it across!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Short answer: PUGS. Also, DPS is king. That's the way the game is designed. Damage is easy to generate. Recovery is harder. Abilities are few and have long, overlapping cooldowns.
Long answer: the name of the game as it relates to PUGS is self-sufficiency. If you have a good solo build, you have a good PUG build. I see lots of people complaining about PUG tactics, about how everyone just wants to pew pew pew and no one is a team player. Well here's a news flash: team players are already part of well-organized teams. They don't need to PUG. I saw someone mention military tactics. That's possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen. How many military units are you aware of that are built from people who have never acted together who just came in from a queue? None, that's how many. The military spends lots of time training so they CAN behave as an organized unit. Terrible comparison.
People who PUG do so ONLY because they are not part of teams that play together regularly.
There are lots of reasons why that can happen. For myself, the reason is my inability to make an online commitment at this point in my life. I can't obligate myself to a regular team. If I did, they'd be constantly disappointed and left at a disadvantage because half the time I just wouldn't be able to show up.
So I play the game almost exclusively solo. On the few occasions I do participate in PUG or STF, I go in able to take care of myself. I do as much damage as I can while keeping an eye on my own health, and I expect the other members to do the same.
Does that mean I never offer a heal? Of course not. I have a modest compliment of heals and a sturdy ship that often requires little maintenance. I'm happy to toss a heal to a teammate if the need arises. That being said, I will not often go out of my way to do it. If they're in range (or close to it) I'll help out. If they're 40km away on the other side of the grid, they're on their own.
Bottom line: you don't get to go into a PUG and complain about people not performing a certain role. First, PUGs are by their very definition unorganized and inefficient. If you're not self-reliant, if you prefer strong class distinctions, don't PUG. Second, the game is designed to be heavily damage-centric. If you're not doing a certain amount of damage, you're considered inferior, regardless of your performance otherwise. And third, the classes in STO are not clearly defined in respect to particular roles. True, some can be made to do certain things with slightly less effort, but with most of your abilities come from BOFFs, it's super, super easy to fill a variety of roles with any ship and any captain. With that amount of built-in diversity, it's impossible to anticipate how you could best benefit a team you have never communicated with. If you can't live with those realities, don't PUG.
It funny. Even STO isn't immune to the DPS crying about heals. DPS are always the first ones to complain, but the last ones to make a healer and do it, themselves. There's some irony in there somewhere.
More often it's better tactics. In the REAL army (which I served in) boots on the ground favored covering each other's backs. More men alive meant more firepower. It wasn't exclusive to superior weapons. We acted as a TEAM, not as individuals.
and in none of that i see the word heal teammates, but i did see the word superior. but the next greatest bestest freaking supergun for the armed forces is the next gimmick for saving lives.
you compare a 1700's rifle to a 2000's rifle, it is as important, it may as well be as you can only do so much with what you got and if that means using antiques... use the best one you can find. :P
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Lol, for me it isn't so much me dying trying to get to them.
It's them dying, by keep running further and further out of range, before I can even chase them down some 20km from their own target.
If you need rely on some extra heals, well..... guess what? It really helps to try and stay close to someone who can help!
lol that too lol it is always funny that person needed heals is always running away from group where the heals are lol. Then yelling why nobody healed them lol.
Shame, shame. And you just prove my point. By the way, been playing since 2010 and I know this game extremely well thanks. I don't generally post in forums because guys like you don't check to see what the other guy actually knows first!
You proved with your post that playing time isnt proportional to game knowledge. Just because you are a "veteran" doesnt mean you know mechanics. And in your post were some misinformations. You might think you know much, but in the end by reading your post it becomes obvious you dont.
That aside, I am not a pure DPSer, as I play all careers, and even go to their specifics and excel more or less with each of them. But I really hate misinformation, as it is one of the causes for stalling human "evolution".
As for the Sci, they are nice, but first: They dont necessarily have to fly a Sciship, and second, you wont miss a Sci in a STF. Though you wont exactly be unhappy if he is in it.
I, for one, appreciate the occassional heals I get in a PUG. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. No, really. It makes me feel ppl care. I'm an Engineer; so I rarely actually *do* need a heal; but in a PUG where I do the most DPS, and others are significantly behind on me, you can wind up drawing a lot of aggro. It's then always appreciated when ppl throw out a heal. And, if I'm not too spazzed out fighting off a Borg, I make it a point to thank people for it too.
You proved with your post that playing time isnt proportional to game knowledge. Just because you are a "veteran" doesnt mean you know mechanics. And in your post were some misinformations. You might think you know much, but in the end by reading your post it becomes obvious you dont.
That aside, I am not a pure DPSer, as I play all careers, and even go to their specifics and excel more or less with each of them. But I really hate misinformation, as it is one of the causes for stalling human "evolution".
Again your explanation is lacking. What mis-information would that be? What do I lack in knowledge of the mechanics of this game? Obviously the tactics, skills and abilities that keep me alive and fighting in Advanced and Elite difficulties are completely useless by your standards and prove I have zero knowledge of the mechanics of the game. I've never once looked up for 'optimal' builds. Why? Cause I know what I am talking about! You however are obsessed with deriding someone who is making valid points and it is you stalling human evolution with such blind ignorance!
I also have toons in all careers, but Sci is my favourite and the one I excel at.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
OP, there is no one at fault for you blowing up other than yourself.
My own DPS escort (as well as EVERY SHIP I BUILD) has some self heals that can even be thrown on others in a pinch. Don´t expect others to bail you out, do it yourself and be ready to bail THEM out.
OP, there is no one at fault for your blowing up than yourself.
My own DPS escort (as well as EVERY SHIP I BUILD) has some self heals that can even be thrown on others in a pinch. Don´t expect others to bail you out, do it yourself and be ready to bail THEM out.
A glass cannon in STO is a sad joke.
Here, here! Totally agree. I don't leave spacedock without shield and hull heals (and the tractor beam!)
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
OP, there is no one at fault for your blowing up than yourself.
My own DPS escort (as well as EVERY SHIP I BUILD) has some self heals that can even be thrown on others in a pinch. Don´t expect others to bail you out, do it yourself and be ready to bail THEM out.
A glass cannon in STO is a sad joke.
Conversely, you have Cryptic to thank for your self-heals, no one else.
Seriously, this is a casual game. They'll leave us the suspension of disbelief about actually needing others for heals and stuff; but, in the end, they designed the game so everyone can be an island, entire of itself.
Most of the people I run stfs with die from....intentionally hanging around warp core breaches in an effort to activate go down fighting or fleet support. No heals possible there
Besides that, autoattack makes it very difficult to target teammates, not that it matters in a group where tactical cubes melt in 20 seconds though.
Point is: dont pug. Unless you like unpredictability
We say the same as we cant understand how so many players can do less than 10k dps. We are called elitists because of that.
Elitism, is normally handed out to those who carry themselves in such a manner or, express themselves in an exact manner.
Not all people feel the necessity to have to build a ship/character around huge amounts of dps!
And further more, the more healing abilities they carry for the team, the less dps potential they may have also.
Granted you can find alternatives or, even go with a very flexible build but, in the end you potentially kill something for another.
I have seen some high dps heal builds but, in some of those cases they are hangar vessels and, not all ships have hangars so, to carry the same weight in support on one vessel can hurt dps badly, while on another it can be made up!
As to what term, people can be called for looking down on those who portray themselves as an elitist, is something I am not aware of as of yet!
Not everyone is portrayed as an elitist, due to not understanding why others cannot achieve 10k dps but, those who would down others for not trying or caring or, even using harsh name calling etc., than yes they would be deemed as such.
Because they portray themselves as such, even if they are not aware of it or, not willing to admit it.
What also gets my goat is that these 'Parsers' are so inaccurate. I can get place regularly 3rd place upward in CE Adv in an Intrepid or Mobius Sci for God' sake and even proven a 'Parser' wrong when they claimed they had 1st place according to their 'Parser', when I actually had it!
Thats also at least inaccurate, as you didnt seem to know how places in CE/CC are calculated. One can be top in dps, but in the end the one with most heals (and heal is very easy to generate currently for all classes) wins. This is an example were places are not given by dps, though most people who dps can easily get enough heals together, by knowing mechanics and "tricks" to inflate heal.
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Now come things you stated incorrectly. Either because you didnt know better, or really tried to warp what you did.
What Uber-DPS guys have to realise is that Sci and Eng Captains actually have to use tactics rather than try to kill something in 1 shot.
While not in my initial post, this one is also more a make-believe statement, as all careers can easily dps over 20k in thus dont need tactics. On the other hand everyone can handicap oneself so tactics are more important than normal. Though the term tactics is debateable here, as everyone uses the same certain tactics in stfs depending on the stf. But this one is just for thoroughness.
In all. All you guys that think us Sci's are a waste of space in this game just remember this, we are the magicians that make things easier for you, not the other way around. If I can kill off Borg Cubes and Tac cubes in area RA's and almost kill off the gunship without getting killed once in a Sci Vessel (and I'm talking SOLO), then just imagine what havoc a skilled Sci Captain is causing in STF's!
The sentence until the comma is ok, but after that it gets highly inaccurate. The magicians arent Scis, but Sciships, those are seperate entities in this game and dont necessarily belong to each other. A Sci does neither have a heal captainsskills (at least not without an trait) nor does he have a CC Captainsskill. Both come from Sciships. Tacs aside (would be a waste imo) both eng and sci are quite weill one a sciship. All three careers can do well on escorts and cruisers. Synergies dont necessarily favor sci for sciships.
I am fairly unimpressed about the last sentence, you did Solo RAs? Wow, thats what every class can do while leveling above lv40. Not a joke. And if you talk lv50+, then its especially true that every class has the potential to do that. It only comes down to the player if he can do it. Especially not dying in a sciship is fairly unimpressive, as it is expected (shieldmod, heal...). If you want to brag, do it about the time, as this is something not so good players dont expect to be over fast. Tac in escorts do it the other way around, here bad players think its impressive to not die in a mere RA, but pls, its a given after a certain point of skill.
So basically DPS and not dying both is expected of a good player. A good player does 20k...30k...40k depending on the ship in career in a pug, but he doesnt (or shouldnt) die. In this thread there were a simply misassumption: DPS needs heal. No, wannabe-dps need heals, real dps doesnt. Real dps is autonomous. Especially in pugs. Going in there with an unstable build is something bad players do, even if they reach much dps in the end, they are only secondclass players, as first class dont die. Which in the end results in more dps, because dying is less dps.
And further more, the more healing abilities they carry for the team, the less dps potential they may have also.
If you take a fixed BO-Layout, thats untrue, as both lie on different BO Classes. Furthermore dps always carries heal with them - at least first class players do- as dying means killing ones dps. You really have to learn to separate between the real deal and wannabes. They simply cant heal others, because they have to tank at the same time, at least in pugs. In a sense, first rate players are everything: Top-DD, tank, "healer", though heal goes mostly to oneself.
Oh, and I dont take elitist as a sort of insult, more like a title. Though I like DPS-Gods better (and dont know why sarcasm and ryan use wizards, as its clearly less than a god), both signify either adoration or envy of lesser players. I cant say I dont like either
..snip.. So basically DPS and not dying both is expected of a good player. A good player does 20k...30k...40k depending on the ship in career in a pug, but he doesnt (or shouldnt) die. In this thread there were a simply misassumption: DPS needs heal. No, wannabe-dps need heals, real dps doesnt. Real dps is autonomous. Especially in pugs. Going in there with an unstable build is something bad players do, even if they reach much dps in the end, they are only secondclass players, as first class dont die. Which in the end results in more dps, because dying is less dps.
A wee bit self serving. Why bother with anything other than DPS? That attitude is what's killing this game - that, and the lack of planning, quality assurance and poor communication.
Nothing wrong with min/maxing your way through the game. The expectation that everyone else should as well is frakked.
If you take a fixed BO-Layout, thats untrue, as both lie on different BO Classes. Furthermore dps always carries heal with them - at least first class players do- as dying means killing ones dps. You really have to learn to separate between the real deal and wannabes. They simply cant heal others, because they have to tank at the same time, at least in pugs. In a sense, first rate players are everything: Top-DD, tank, "healer", though heal goes mostly to oneself.
Oh, and I dont take elitist as a sort of insult, more like a title. Though I like DPS-Gods better (and dont know why sarcasm and ryan use wizards, as its clearly less than a god), both signify either adoration or envy of lesser players. I cant say I dont like either
Well, if a ship carries nothing but self and team heals, than odds are they won't be doing tons of dps themselves, at least not without some form of assistance from pets or, team mates.
So, my assumption was in regards to this and, not that most smart builds carry some form of healing, it's just most top dps builds carry but the most basic heals or, no more than maybe 2-3 or, possibly 4 while mostly focusing on anything that offers dps increases.
But, I also tend to notice they can rely on their team for backup heals if needed and, this is something that as this threads title says, isn't the norm for pugs and, one cannot expect a heal from pug group mates so, you are left with possibly losing some portion of dps in favor of an extra heal here or there.
I heal whenever I can in any queue I'm in. But most people don't seem to care about getting optionals, let alone helping other players out. It's all just KILL KILL KILL. :rolleyes:
Stop pugging. Run with players that know wtf they're doing. Add me too(@orangeitis) (even though I run around missions like a chicken with its head cut off =p)
Comments
That's actually been a feature of most military organizations since Alexander of Macedon, (or more likely his father, Philip), organized the first battlefield medics.
That said, back on topic - I heal my teammates in PUGs on a regular basis. Nobody ever seems to notice.
But I digress. I'll heal if I'm not inundated with holding back aload of spheres or picking up aggro myself. What I won't do is heal an Uber-DPS nut that decides everyone should be following him as he has highest DPS and believe me, one guy actually said that. I've been in a few where these guys wreck the mission because of their own over-inflated realisation of self-importance. What Uber-DPS guys have to realise is that Sci and Eng Captains actually have to use tactics rather than try to kill something in 1 shot. The NPC ship update, which I really like as it's now a really good scrap, makes tactics far more important, although Cryptic are caving to make things too easy and too quick again (especially levelling).
I also think a major redesign is needed on all ships to include proper weapon arcs and realisitic weapon loadouts as in 'SFC'! The power drain in this game is superficial also and needs to be properly representative when someone is firing all their 8 Beams/Cannons. In SFC that would be a MASSIVE drain.
In all. All you guys that think us Sci's are a waste of space in this game just remember this, we are the magicians that make things easier for you, not the other way around. If I can kill off Borg Cubes and Tac cubes in area RA's and almost kill off the gunship without getting killed once in a Sci Vessel (and I'm talking SOLO), then just imagine what havoc a skilled Sci Captain is causing in STF's!
Depending on what i am piloting sometimes APB gets thrown into the mix.
I'm used to be top 3 in CE in my wells because I heal like mad. My DPS however is not even 10K. I even finished 1rst a bunch of time in my wells.
The only way parser are wrong, except when player error is involved, is when you are far away from the guy with the parser. Or when you hit invulnerable target (it will increase your DPS, but in fact, you are doing nothing useful).
Otherwise, parser are extremely accurate.
A parser is a tool, how you use it is up to you. Just like every tool, it's never right nor wrong, it's only adapted or not, and open to your interpretation.
Otherwise you are plain SOL.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
1. Most people don't know how to properly build a ship, either they're using random junk abilities OR going for pure DPS with zero heals on board. But mostly a lot of people who do advanced/elite don't know how to build ships for versatility in combat. I could do more burst DPS on my builds sure... but then I wouldn't live through any of the things I do. I've found if you never die you do more damage/DPS than bursting really high followed by you exploding shortly after. There are a FEW builds that can do both, but they're expensive to do and not everyone can afford to.
2. More and more the meta game is about doing a large amount of damage VERY quickly due to timers and skewed hull/shield HP. In a pug you don't know what you're gonna get so everyone brings a DPS build expecting that everyone else's DPS may suck in order to make the timers and not fail the mission. Time constraints and high numbers to go through almost require the entire team to be high DPS with a max of maybe 1 person being high utility.
(In my own fleet we cover each other with heals as much as possible, and for instance... bring a drain build to use on really powerful enemies with huge hull/shield numbers so that the DPS will be more effective. You can't plan for this in PUGs)
I'm sure there's thing I didn't touch on, but out of time to read through the thread right now, so hope this brings at least a little clarity to a couple things at least.
Somehow, though, most of them aren't too good at it.
To the OP, it's simple. Many people probably do not even know that they can send heals to others. It's not like there's tons of missions where you're required to heal others, not even NPCs. If they do discover the possibility, they most likey stumble upon it by accident.
Which is why I usually pull the all the aggro when I'm flying my sci. I barely need any heals myself and the others are relatively safe. It's better than sending heals to everyone and seeing them killed anyway, because they don't have the slightest clue how to utilize that added survivability.
Although sometimes I think that it's kinda counterproductive.
Nice how little you know of this game. First, you DONT NEED Scis in STF, especially not for GW, other classes and ships can do that too (Narcine, Prometheus etc.). They [Scis] are, however, not a hindrance, and if used correctly are of course quite useful. The only STF where they as class (not as ship-user) come in handy is HSA/E, as they can subnuke the feedbackpulse.
Second, the placing this game uses in Crystalline Entity is based on heal and DPS, with more weight to heal. Thats why a good captain on a sciship or a scimitar with valdore-console easily wins this, as you simply need to inflate heal here. Meaning the parser is accurate that others are far better in dps, but one can simply outheal dps, especially with heals such inflated as now.
For the moment you are the one with the overinflated ego, because you are neither as great or as useful as you might think.
So before posting in this forum, how about learning about the game first, so such chunk of misinformation doesnt happen?
Nothing against you poster but, all it takes is some reading a simple skill description and, testing it out to figure these issues out.
But, this is something I see wayyyyyy to often in game, that people are either to stupid or, to ignorant or, even to lazy to even read, let alone experiment or, plain figure things out for themselves.
No, they prefer others to hold their hands and, lead them to the holy grail.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I gave up chasing people down to heal them because I die trying to get to them.
Lol, for me it isn't so much me dying trying to get to them.
It's them dying, by keep running further and further out of range, before I can even chase them down some 20km from their own target.
If you need rely on some extra heals, well..... guess what? It really helps to try and stay close to someone who can help!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
We say the same as we cant understand how so many players can do less than 10k dps. We are called elitists because of that.
Shame, shame. And you just prove my point. By the way, been playing since 2010 and I know this game extremely well thanks. I don't generally post in forums because guys like you don't check to see what the other guy actually knows first!
A point that I make to my fleet mates...."Make sure you can take care of yourselves on the battlefield as you can't expect others to come running to your aid if they themselves can't take care of themselves". I think it's pretty laughable you say I have the ego, when I'm the one being moaned at when I don't hit a certain DPS. All I said is that I can take the punishment as well as give it, whereas others can only give the punishment! I get a buzz flying Elite patrols solo, gives more of the 'epic' battle buzz. Also, you forgot to give an example of my 'over-inflated ego' so you might want to re-read what I put. And yes, I will argue the Sci's case, in my opinion it's way more fun than the Tac experience the way you just put it across!
Long answer: the name of the game as it relates to PUGS is self-sufficiency. If you have a good solo build, you have a good PUG build. I see lots of people complaining about PUG tactics, about how everyone just wants to pew pew pew and no one is a team player. Well here's a news flash: team players are already part of well-organized teams. They don't need to PUG. I saw someone mention military tactics. That's possibly the worst analogy I have ever seen. How many military units are you aware of that are built from people who have never acted together who just came in from a queue? None, that's how many. The military spends lots of time training so they CAN behave as an organized unit. Terrible comparison.
People who PUG do so ONLY because they are not part of teams that play together regularly.
There are lots of reasons why that can happen. For myself, the reason is my inability to make an online commitment at this point in my life. I can't obligate myself to a regular team. If I did, they'd be constantly disappointed and left at a disadvantage because half the time I just wouldn't be able to show up.
So I play the game almost exclusively solo. On the few occasions I do participate in PUG or STF, I go in able to take care of myself. I do as much damage as I can while keeping an eye on my own health, and I expect the other members to do the same.
Does that mean I never offer a heal? Of course not. I have a modest compliment of heals and a sturdy ship that often requires little maintenance. I'm happy to toss a heal to a teammate if the need arises. That being said, I will not often go out of my way to do it. If they're in range (or close to it) I'll help out. If they're 40km away on the other side of the grid, they're on their own.
Bottom line: you don't get to go into a PUG and complain about people not performing a certain role. First, PUGs are by their very definition unorganized and inefficient. If you're not self-reliant, if you prefer strong class distinctions, don't PUG. Second, the game is designed to be heavily damage-centric. If you're not doing a certain amount of damage, you're considered inferior, regardless of your performance otherwise. And third, the classes in STO are not clearly defined in respect to particular roles. True, some can be made to do certain things with slightly less effort, but with most of your abilities come from BOFFs, it's super, super easy to fill a variety of roles with any ship and any captain. With that amount of built-in diversity, it's impossible to anticipate how you could best benefit a team you have never communicated with. If you can't live with those realities, don't PUG.
It funny. Even STO isn't immune to the DPS crying about heals. DPS are always the first ones to complain, but the last ones to make a healer and do it, themselves. There's some irony in there somewhere.
and in none of that i see the word heal teammates, but i did see the word superior. but the next greatest bestest freaking supergun for the armed forces is the next gimmick for saving lives.
you compare a 1700's rifle to a 2000's rifle, it is as important, it may as well be as you can only do so much with what you got and if that means using antiques... use the best one you can find. :P
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
lol that too lol it is always funny that person needed heals is always running away from group where the heals are lol. Then yelling why nobody healed them lol.
You proved with your post that playing time isnt proportional to game knowledge. Just because you are a "veteran" doesnt mean you know mechanics. And in your post were some misinformations. You might think you know much, but in the end by reading your post it becomes obvious you dont.
That aside, I am not a pure DPSer, as I play all careers, and even go to their specifics and excel more or less with each of them. But I really hate misinformation, as it is one of the causes for stalling human "evolution".
As for the Sci, they are nice, but first: They dont necessarily have to fly a Sciship, and second, you wont miss a Sci in a STF. Though you wont exactly be unhappy if he is in it.
Again your explanation is lacking. What mis-information would that be? What do I lack in knowledge of the mechanics of this game? Obviously the tactics, skills and abilities that keep me alive and fighting in Advanced and Elite difficulties are completely useless by your standards and prove I have zero knowledge of the mechanics of the game. I've never once looked up for 'optimal' builds. Why? Cause I know what I am talking about! You however are obsessed with deriding someone who is making valid points and it is you stalling human evolution with such blind ignorance!
I also have toons in all careers, but Sci is my favourite and the one I excel at.
My own DPS escort (as well as EVERY SHIP I BUILD) has some self heals that can even be thrown on others in a pinch. Don´t expect others to bail you out, do it yourself and be ready to bail THEM out.
A glass cannon in STO is a sad joke.
Here, here! Totally agree. I don't leave spacedock without shield and hull heals (and the tractor beam!)
Conversely, you have Cryptic to thank for your self-heals, no one else.
Seriously, this is a casual game. They'll leave us the suspension of disbelief about actually needing others for heals and stuff; but, in the end, they designed the game so everyone can be an island, entire of itself.
Besides that, autoattack makes it very difficult to target teammates, not that it matters in a group where tactical cubes melt in 20 seconds though.
Point is: dont pug. Unless you like unpredictability
Elitism, is normally handed out to those who carry themselves in such a manner or, express themselves in an exact manner.
Not all people feel the necessity to have to build a ship/character around huge amounts of dps!
And further more, the more healing abilities they carry for the team, the less dps potential they may have also.
Granted you can find alternatives or, even go with a very flexible build but, in the end you potentially kill something for another.
I have seen some high dps heal builds but, in some of those cases they are hangar vessels and, not all ships have hangars so, to carry the same weight in support on one vessel can hurt dps badly, while on another it can be made up!
As to what term, people can be called for looking down on those who portray themselves as an elitist, is something I am not aware of as of yet!
Not everyone is portrayed as an elitist, due to not understanding why others cannot achieve 10k dps but, those who would down others for not trying or caring or, even using harsh name calling etc., than yes they would be deemed as such.
Because they portray themselves as such, even if they are not aware of it or, not willing to admit it.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Sigh:
That is so horribly wrong one would laugh if it werent so sad. Even if you seperate Sci and sciships, neither is a must have in stfs.
Thats also at least inaccurate, as you didnt seem to know how places in CE/CC are calculated. One can be top in dps, but in the end the one with most heals (and heal is very easy to generate currently for all classes) wins. This is an example were places are not given by dps, though most people who dps can easily get enough heals together, by knowing mechanics and "tricks" to inflate heal.
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Now come things you stated incorrectly. Either because you didnt know better, or really tried to warp what you did.
While not in my initial post, this one is also more a make-believe statement, as all careers can easily dps over 20k in thus dont need tactics. On the other hand everyone can handicap oneself so tactics are more important than normal. Though the term tactics is debateable here, as everyone uses the same certain tactics in stfs depending on the stf. But this one is just for thoroughness.
The sentence until the comma is ok, but after that it gets highly inaccurate. The magicians arent Scis, but Sciships, those are seperate entities in this game and dont necessarily belong to each other. A Sci does neither have a heal captainsskills (at least not without an trait) nor does he have a CC Captainsskill. Both come from Sciships. Tacs aside (would be a waste imo) both eng and sci are quite weill one a sciship. All three careers can do well on escorts and cruisers. Synergies dont necessarily favor sci for sciships.
I am fairly unimpressed about the last sentence, you did Solo RAs? Wow, thats what every class can do while leveling above lv40. Not a joke. And if you talk lv50+, then its especially true that every class has the potential to do that. It only comes down to the player if he can do it. Especially not dying in a sciship is fairly unimpressive, as it is expected (shieldmod, heal...). If you want to brag, do it about the time, as this is something not so good players dont expect to be over fast. Tac in escorts do it the other way around, here bad players think its impressive to not die in a mere RA, but pls, its a given after a certain point of skill.
So basically DPS and not dying both is expected of a good player. A good player does 20k...30k...40k depending on the ship in career in a pug, but he doesnt (or shouldnt) die. In this thread there were a simply misassumption: DPS needs heal. No, wannabe-dps need heals, real dps doesnt. Real dps is autonomous. Especially in pugs. Going in there with an unstable build is something bad players do, even if they reach much dps in the end, they are only secondclass players, as first class dont die. Which in the end results in more dps, because dying is less dps.
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If you take a fixed BO-Layout, thats untrue, as both lie on different BO Classes. Furthermore dps always carries heal with them - at least first class players do- as dying means killing ones dps. You really have to learn to separate between the real deal and wannabes. They simply cant heal others, because they have to tank at the same time, at least in pugs. In a sense, first rate players are everything: Top-DD, tank, "healer", though heal goes mostly to oneself.
Oh, and I dont take elitist as a sort of insult, more like a title. Though I like DPS-Gods better (and dont know why sarcasm and ryan use wizards, as its clearly less than a god), both signify either adoration or envy of lesser players. I cant say I dont like either
A wee bit self serving. Why bother with anything other than DPS? That attitude is what's killing this game - that, and the lack of planning, quality assurance and poor communication.
Nothing wrong with min/maxing your way through the game. The expectation that everyone else should as well is frakked.
Well, if a ship carries nothing but self and team heals, than odds are they won't be doing tons of dps themselves, at least not without some form of assistance from pets or, team mates.
So, my assumption was in regards to this and, not that most smart builds carry some form of healing, it's just most top dps builds carry but the most basic heals or, no more than maybe 2-3 or, possibly 4 while mostly focusing on anything that offers dps increases.
But, I also tend to notice they can rely on their team for backup heals if needed and, this is something that as this threads title says, isn't the norm for pugs and, one cannot expect a heal from pug group mates so, you are left with possibly losing some portion of dps in favor of an extra heal here or there.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Stop pugging. Run with players that know wtf they're doing. Add me too(@orangeitis) (even though I run around missions like a chicken with its head cut off =p)
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