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Let the top performers go, Cryptic.

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  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    This is pretty much exactly why some of us are so angry about how they've treated science. It's seriously a crime against the IP it really is because these battles weren't always won by tactical maneuvers there were many many times that they were won by inteligence and science. The entire Voyager series wouldn't have happened had her captain not been smart and quick. Almost none of the battles that were fought by Voyager were won by Tuvok Seriously if you look at the entire series almost all of the battles after the implementation of Seven were won by Intelligence and Science. As Seven was quoted as saying in Friendship One "You're a scientist, you can see a problem and imagine a solution."

    Cryptic has created a infinite loop in this manner. When STO came out, there were a ton of people that gravitated to DPS... ie tac/tac. It's what people wanted, so Cryptic began to cater to that subset more, which drew more people to that subset, which caused Cryptic to cater to that subset more... because that subset paid the bills. This went double when they switched to F2P model.

    When they complained about science (because we were able to counter most of what tac's could do) they nerfed us, because Atari didn't care about things like balance... or even the game. They wanted money... and tacticals made them money... specifically fed tacs made them money. Science was nerfed, cruisers were ignored, beam weapons were ignored, and more and more escorts and ships that could hold DHCs were made, because that's what made Atari money.

    Now PWE isn't my favorite company, but they've been working slowly towards balance, but they're still concerned about one thing... money... and only money. DPS sells... everything else is a gimic... because that's how the game was set up and that's how the game continued to develop under Atari.

    So instead of alienating the majority of their player base... when we're already ready to revolt practically and leave... they continue to develop things along that line... dps. Science doesn't matter... unless they can boost it's DPS. Engineering doesn't matter... unless they can boost it's DPS.

    So that's why the top performers are so important to Cryptic and why the won't... and can't... let them go.

    The top performers are practically free advertising for Cryptic. They come on the board stroking their E-Peens bragging how everyone can be like them if they just spend the time and most importantly the money.

    Make no mistake while the game may technically be F2P... most people don't want to spend the time... they'd rather spend the money for instant gratification and to be just like their idols... the dps kings.

    The problem Cryptic found out in DR is what a lot of game companies figured out. DPS Kings may brag the loudest... scream the loudest... cry the loudest... and generally have the ego and manners of a 2 year old... and that listening to them will make them quick cash... but in the long run it alienates the casuals... the people that actually pay the bills...

    So now Cryptic needs to figure out a way to dig themselves out of the hole they've dug themselves into over 5 years... and they can't. So they can only do what they've done... continue to cater to the loudest minority that brings in money, force the casuals to adapt to their way of thinking... and hope to make money.

    because the other option is they close down, and at this point it's practically inevitable.
  • the1tiggletthe1tigglet Member Posts: 1,421 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ladymyajha wrote: »
    So that's why the top performers are so important to Cryptic and why the won't... and can't... let them go.

    Actually this is the only part of your statement that isn't true and here's why. The IP itself commands a larger audience than is seen here. People might like flashy explosions etc but there is also a much larger audience who appreciates the astrometrics, medical, and engineering side of things.

    If they got rid of this nonsense where everything is a battle everything is a war right now at this point in the game, and focused on what made ST what made it popular in the first place, exploration, they could totally eliminate the need for these tiny few who like the JJ Abrams nonsense where everything is flashy and the lore doesn't matter (which is how I describe these top performer DPSers, or the 1%ers).

    They could easily make the game enjoyable for a larger audience sure it might take a little work and it might take a bit of time to transition over to it but they could totally leave behind these 1%ers and attract those of us who appreciated this IP for it's intelligence and science aspects all you have to do is go to a convention and see just how many people are dressed up as who, I can guarantee you there are far fewer people who are dressed up as and focused on the JJ Abrams style flashiness and tactical nonsense than there are with stories of why they like Data or Seven of Nine or any of the Doctors in every series. Most of them are gamers and I'm sure they'd be attracted to the game if they spent more time on explores or made the lore for the expansions reflect the lore like they did with DR but with much more content than they did in DR.

    The 1%ers are not gods they can be replaced easily with a little work they just have to have someone who can actually manage the game on anything other than standby mode.
  • ladymyajhaladymyajha Member Posts: 1,428 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Actually this is the only part of your statement that isn't true and here's why. The IP itself commands a larger audience than is seen here. People might like flashy explosions etc but there is also a much larger audience who appreciates the astrometrics, medical, and engineering side of things.

    If they got rid of this nonsense where everything is a battle everything is a war right now at this point in the game, and focused on what made ST what made it popular in the first place, exploration, they could totally eliminate the need for these tiny few who like the JJ Abrams nonsense where everything is flashy and the lore doesn't matter (which is how I describe these top performer DPSers, or the 1%ers).

    They could easily make the game enjoyable for a larger audience sure it might take a little work and it might take a bit of time to transition over to it but they could totally leave behind these 1%ers and attract those of us who appreciated this IP for it's intelligence and science aspects all you have to do is go to a convention and see just how many people are dressed up as who, I can guarantee you there are far fewer people who are dressed up as and focused on the JJ Abrams style flashiness and tactical nonsense than there are with stories of why they like Data or Seven of Nine or any of the Doctors in every series. Most of them are gamers and I'm sure they'd be attracted to the game if they spent more time on explores or made the lore for the expansions reflect the lore like they did with DR but with much more content than they did in DR.

    The 1%ers are not gods they can be replaced easily with a little work they just have to have someone who can actually manage the game on anything other than standby mode.

    Fair enough... and I certainly see your point. I guess my point boils down to... to totally change directions now in the game would alienate a goodly minority of your population and drive them off. The question is... after 5 years... how fast could they.. and even is it possible to... pull in enough people to prop up the loss in this minority who pay a ton of time and/or money into the game.

    Lets be honest here... while the game isn't failing... it's not exactly raking in enough money that it can willing hemorage a siginificant portion of it's population due to a drastic direction change... and a gradual change will take years to accomplish.

    So right now I don't see how they can just change direction's monetarily. Sure CAN they let them go.. yes... but what effect would that have on their bottom line?
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Cryptic never cared about balance, and frankly only Geko has this obsession with the top 1% of DPSers, which he has steadily inflated and made worse and worse.

    The whales supporting cryptic aren't the DPSers, and their showboating isn't impressing the whales. People are paying to relive the tv shows, to fly the ships and attempt to relive something that is gone.

    This vendetta against the top 1% has killed the game, its unprofessional, childish and pretty shocking its gone on so long without someone being fired.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I have to agree with the OP 100%, and the post below it as well.
  • edited November 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • dpsloss88dpsloss88 Member Posts: 765 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I think they lost just as many "top performers" as they did underhive peasants such as yourself.
  • tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    after todays news of the pve reward nerfs, this thread is more relevant than ever (that means its not a necro by any reasonable standards).
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't necessarily think they will.

    When I say "let it go", I mean it in the sense Lily Sloane meant it when she said "blow up the ship" in First Contact. I feel like there's almost vendetta level focus here in slowing down fast progression.

    Pretend the Borg are elite players and pretend Picard is a systems dev here.

    http://youtu.be/oeGMHbK4NlA

    LILY: You stealth nerfed us.
    PICARD: This really isn't the time.
    LILY: Okay. I don't know jack about game development systems design but everybody out there thinks that staying here and following this content grind strategy is suicide. They're just afraid to come in here and say it.
    PICARD: The players are accustomed to adapting to my patches.
    LILY: They're probably accustomed to your patches making sense.
    PICARD: None of them understand the grind as I do. ...No one does. No one can.
    LILY: What is that supposed to mean?
    PICARD: Six years ago, I was invited to play a game called 'Farmville'. I had their app implanted throughout my social media profiles. My credit card was linked to my account, every trace of disposable income erased. I was one of them. So you can imagine, my dear, I have a somewhat unique perspective on the grind and I know how to implement strategy. Now if you will excuse me I have work to do.
    LILY: I am such an idiot. ...It's so simple. The elite players hurt you, and now you're going to milk them dry.
    PICARD: At my company we don't succumb to monetization. We have a more evolved sensibility.
    LILY: Bull...! I saw the look on your face when you lowered those numbers on the spreadsheet. You were almost enjoying it!
    PICARD: How dare you!?
    LILY: Oh, come on, Captain. You're not the first man to get a thrill from nerfing someone. I see it all the time.
    PICARD: Get out!
    LILY: Or what? You'll nerfl me, like you nerfed the players who ground STFs after launch?
    PICARD: There was no way to distinguish them from exploiters.
    LILY: You didn't even try. Where was your evolved sensibility then?
    PICARD: I don't have time for this.
    LILY: Oh! Hey! I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Zynga has to go hunt his whales.
    PICARD: What?
    LILY: You do have facebook in the twenty-fourth century?
    PICARD: This is not about monetization.
    LILY: Liar!
    PICARD: This is about saving the future of free-to-play gaming.
    LILY: Jean-Luc, delete the friggin' spreadsheets!
    PICARD: No! ...No!
    (Picard breaks the starship display cabinet with his phaser rifle)
    PICARD: No! ...I will not sacrifice the systems design. We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invade our space patrols and we fall back. They assimilate entire keybind systems, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here, ...this far, no further! And I will make them pay for their dilithium.
    LILY: You broke your little ships. ...See you around, Zynga.

    Much needed laughter LOL.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Like everything else DR related it seems they are doubling down on this philosophy instead of trying something else.
  • captaintrueheartcaptaintrueheart Member Posts: 296 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    LILY: You stealth nerfed us.
    PICARD: This really isn't the time.

    LOL, I hope the dev team reads this over and over... I've never seen anyone so perfectly sum up the situation with such absolute creativity

    You are right on so many counts, let the top 1% go... erase them from the metrics and tune the game around the other 99%

    Very well said, very well said indeed!
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    =/\= ================================= =/\=
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The game needs a healthy eco system.
    That means it needs low and top performers including a big middle section.
    download.jpg
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,531 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Actually, that is the last thing to do - the answer is to make NPCs equal to players so on Normal NPCs are equal to Normal players, Advanced NPCs are equal to Advanced Players and Elite NPCs are equal to Elite players.

    NOT just whack hitpoints up as if that made stuff difficult.

    This is exactly how it should be! The only problem is that if an NPC vapes someone, that person then rages it shouldn't be allowed. This is despite the fact that player also can do the same!! I mean come on people, if you are ALLOWED to have a vape build, why can't an NPC??

    The base combat mechanics don't allow for sufficient power drain IMO. Just look at the SFC series (in particular 1 and 2). If you fired all 8 beams/cannons at the same time you virtually wipe out the capacitors and have to wait for recharge. If your shields are damaged, they take time to repair. If your subsystems are damaged, they also take time to repair, as does the hull. You had to learn to take care of your ship. In STO, you can insta-heal/charge everything almost, whereby all but eliminating defensive tactics. Everything in the game would have canon Starfleet clamouring for the tech! Fix this and you'll bring the Trek back. Bring back threat of destruction and exploration like it should be.

    Now, as for DPS, I have no clue and don't care where I stand versus other people. I won't run off a DPS sheet to see where I 'need to improve'. That is not skill, it's basic maths. Like any decent player I work off observation and tactics, using the skills at my disposal and my own experience. I can run any Elite space mission with MKXII stuff and survive with most of my nerves intact. Personally, the longer fights provide way more satisfaction than any walkover!

    So where does this relate to how I see myself in game? To be honest, personally, I welcomed the increased difficulty and I welcomed the attempt to slow down levelling. Levelling a new character to 50 with-in 2 weeks was, and still is way too fast, especially for a complete noob (At which point, I should mention I have been playing STO since 2010)! I have no issue at the speed of earning a new spec point at 1 every 6 hours of playtime (taking into account all the doff'ing and coffee breaks). My only real issue is the in-game cost of EVERYTHING! EC values were nerfed, STF rewards nerfed, new ways to strip-mine Dil from players increased. This is way out of hand now. I find it frustrating that I can't contribute as much to my fleet projects as I could before DR (and no, I won't go find a fleet already maxed. Been there, done that!).

    As for PvP, I'm not interested fighting PvP outside of my friends. The few times I did, it was painful and boring due to spawn-campers.

    Also, to address something which really bugs me.....the people who claim this game is Pay-to-Win or there's a 'Paywall'.....GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Besides a few 'perks' gained with subs, there is no element in this game that requires anyone to pay to win. A P2W/PAYWALL game is only applicable to games where you actually stand to lose something. Go check a game called 'Galaxy 2 Online'. That game you have to spend to get anywhere. Pay to get stronger commanders, pay to get 'unique' blueprints. That game you can lose things you've spent months building! In STO, if you get destroyed or killed, you lose absolutely NOTHING! Even in Arena, you lose NOTHING! You can comeback to the game after 3 months and you'll have lost NOTHING! Yes you can buy Zen to buy Dil, but you can grind Dil to buy Zen. You can't join this game as a newbie and buy yourself into self'percieved highest level and hardest character/ship you can get, you actually have to do some work. So, it makes things 'time-gated'....so what!! Any decent, level headed player won't care if it takes time. I know, cause I'm one of them. I don't care for the time taken to grind,

    I've played games for over 30 years and I expect an RPG to take time and I won't take a short-cut that will ruin the experience, I won't exploit or cheat my way to the top, there's just no need. Games are there for the enjoyment and to help relax, not to get stressed over. At the end of the day, Cryptic (and in some cases, CBS) is 'God' in STO, just like your boss is 'God' at your workplace. If you don't like it, find a new one!!
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • lored2deathlored2death Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't necessarily think they will.

    When I say "let it go", I mean it in the sense Lily Sloane meant it when she said "blow up the ship" in First Contact. I feel like there's almost vendetta level focus here in slowing down fast progression.

    Pretend the Borg are elite players and pretend Picard is a systems dev here.

    http://youtu.be/oeGMHbK4NlA

    LILY: You stealth nerfed us.
    PICARD: This really isn't the time.
    LILY: Okay. I don't know jack about game development systems design but everybody out there thinks that staying here and following this content grind strategy is suicide. They're just afraid to come in here and say it.
    PICARD: The players are accustomed to adapting to my patches.
    LILY: They're probably accustomed to your patches making sense.
    PICARD: None of them understand the grind as I do. ...No one does. No one can.
    LILY: What is that supposed to mean?
    PICARD: Six years ago, I was invited to play a game called 'Farmville'. I had their app implanted throughout my social media profiles. My credit card was linked to my account, every trace of disposable income erased. I was one of them. So you can imagine, my dear, I have a somewhat unique perspective on the grind and I know how to implement strategy. Now if you will excuse me I have work to do.
    LILY: I am such an idiot. ...It's so simple. The elite players hurt you, and now you're going to milk them dry.
    PICARD: At my company we don't succumb to monetization. We have a more evolved sensibility.
    LILY: Bull...! I saw the look on your face when you lowered those numbers on the spreadsheet. You were almost enjoying it!
    PICARD: How dare you!?
    LILY: Oh, come on, Captain. You're not the first man to get a thrill from nerfing someone. I see it all the time.
    PICARD: Get out!
    LILY: Or what? You'll nerfl me, like you nerfed the players who ground STFs after launch?
    PICARD: There was no way to distinguish them from exploiters.
    LILY: You didn't even try. Where was your evolved sensibility then?
    PICARD: I don't have time for this.
    LILY: Oh! Hey! I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Zynga has to go hunt his whales.
    PICARD: What?
    LILY: You do have facebook in the twenty-fourth century?
    PICARD: This is not about monetization.
    LILY: Liar!
    PICARD: This is about saving the future of free-to-play gaming.
    LILY: Jean-Luc, delete the friggin' spreadsheets!
    PICARD: No! ...No!
    (Picard breaks the starship display cabinet with his phaser rifle)
    PICARD: No! ...I will not sacrifice the systems design. We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invade our space patrols and we fall back. They assimilate entire keybind systems, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here, ...this far, no further! And I will make them pay for their dilithium.
    LILY: You broke your little ships. ...See you around, Zynga.

    I couldn't stop laughing!!! It hurts that there seems to be some truth in it as well.
  • zathri83zathri83 Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    They should let the bottom 1% go, aka pvpers.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I don't necessarily think they will.

    When I say "let it go", I mean it in the sense Lily Sloane meant it when she said "blow up the ship" in First Contact. I feel like there's almost vendetta level focus here in slowing down fast progression.

    Pretend the Borg are elite players and pretend Picard is a systems dev here.

    http://youtu.be/oeGMHbK4NlA

    LILY: You stealth nerfed us.
    PICARD: This really isn't the time.
    LILY: Okay. I don't know jack about game development systems design but everybody out there thinks that staying here and following this content grind strategy is suicide. They're just afraid to come in here and say it.
    PICARD: The players are accustomed to adapting to my patches.
    LILY: They're probably accustomed to your patches making sense.
    PICARD: None of them understand the grind as I do. ...No one does. No one can.
    LILY: What is that supposed to mean?
    PICARD: Six years ago, I was invited to play a game called 'Farmville'. I had their app implanted throughout my social media profiles. My credit card was linked to my account, every trace of disposable income erased. I was one of them. So you can imagine, my dear, I have a somewhat unique perspective on the grind and I know how to implement strategy. Now if you will excuse me I have work to do.
    LILY: I am such an idiot. ...It's so simple. The elite players hurt you, and now you're going to milk them dry.
    PICARD: At my company we don't succumb to monetization. We have a more evolved sensibility.
    LILY: Bull...! I saw the look on your face when you lowered those numbers on the spreadsheet. You were almost enjoying it!
    PICARD: How dare you!?
    LILY: Oh, come on, Captain. You're not the first man to get a thrill from nerfing someone. I see it all the time.
    PICARD: Get out!
    LILY: Or what? You'll nerfl me, like you nerfed the players who ground STFs after launch?
    PICARD: There was no way to distinguish them from exploiters.
    LILY: You didn't even try. Where was your evolved sensibility then?
    PICARD: I don't have time for this.
    LILY: Oh! Hey! I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Zynga has to go hunt his whales.
    PICARD: What?
    LILY: You do have facebook in the twenty-fourth century?
    PICARD: This is not about monetization.
    LILY: Liar!
    PICARD: This is about saving the future of free-to-play gaming.
    LILY: Jean-Luc, delete the friggin' spreadsheets!
    PICARD: No! ...No!
    (Picard breaks the starship display cabinet with his phaser rifle)
    PICARD: No! ...I will not sacrifice the systems design. We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invade our space patrols and we fall back. They assimilate entire keybind systems, and we fall back. Not again! The line must be drawn here, ...this far, no further! And I will make them pay for their dilithium.
    LILY: You broke your little ships. ...See you around, Zynga.

    lol

    Even More Updates to Rewards and PvE Queue Difficulty
    ^^
    Odd changes on tribble page, some of the content gets put behind a L77t wall.

    Super buff to Atmosphere Assault.

    (possibly an "as seen on tribble" but looks solid)
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • mightybobcncmightybobcnc Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    >Cryptic introduces mechanics that allow top 1% to hit 100k
    >Cryptic freaks out and nerfs content to rein in their own mistake


    They seriously need to just give up. You can never keep up with the top performers in your game because there are more of them than there are of you and they have way more free time to tool around than you do. Punishing the rest of the player base because a handful of people can wipe the floor with all of the game's content is a flawed solution.

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  • centaurianalphacentaurianalpha Member Posts: 1,150 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    So, as intended by Cryptic, the rich get richer (in terms of game rewards) and the rest get whacked... Nice going Cryptic...apparently casual players have no place in your economic model. :mad:

    Not that we might actually buy more DOff slots to compensate for the increased number of DOffs required per mission since the revamp.

    Not that we might buy more lockbox keys to get shinies only available otherwise from STF's.

    Not that we might use lockbox Lobi to compensate for the lack of reputation drops in STF's.

    I was really close to renewing my Gold subscription until this last PvE nerf; obviously, you don't want anything but min-max'ers to populate the servers... :mad:

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  • edited January 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    >Cryptic introduces mechanics that allow top 1% to hit 100k
    >Cryptic freaks out and nerfs content to rein in their own mistake


    They seriously need to just give up. You can never keep up with the top performers in your game because there are more of them than there are of you and they have way more free time to tool around than you do. Punishing the rest of the player base because a handful of people can wipe the floor with all of the game's content is a flawed solution.

    Until they do stop, all forms of DPS bragging need to be withheld. It just tells Cryptic what to nerf that will make the majority of us miserable. It's sad but I think the DPS'ers need to put the community ahead of themselves since Cryptic has not. Additionally, if they stop their behavior it might show Cryptic that an overall re-evaluation is necessary if even the whales/DPS'ers aren't feeding the cycle anymore.

    Every time someone posts a DPS video, a queue dies. End it now. Prove you are not cool with this behavior any more than the majority of players.

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