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faw out of controll
eurialo
Member Posts: 667 Arc User
Don't you think faw is totally out of control? I just played an isa and it wasn't fun at all... not because we failed it, but because of faw... just 2 ship were enough to clear everything in a few seconds... no ability, no manouvering, no strategy... really a few seconds and everything has been done.
looking at the leaderboard I can see players with more than 100k dps, one of them can deal the same damage of more than 3 escorts like mine... It's crazy, there is no way to balance pve queues if there is so much power creep.
looking at the leaderboard I can see players with more than 100k dps, one of them can deal the same damage of more than 3 escorts like mine... It's crazy, there is no way to balance pve queues if there is so much power creep.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Post edited by eurialo on
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FAW does, in fact, require careful piloting and use. You can't just fire it off willy-nilly. That only works in a few situations. You need to mind your distance to targets, you need to position yourself for a broadside, you need to watch your cooldown timers, you need to have heals ready because you WILL agro the world (if done right). To say it's mindless is vapid and ignorant.
I defend it when comments like this come up, but I think, however, it IS overpowered in a couple of specific areas. I think overcapping is the culprit, and having hard caps where excess power just disappears and is not counted in cryptic's wonky damage calculator, would reign it in a bit. IMO tac-heavy escorts using DHCs should be the kings of DPS. That just isn't the case. I think reigning in the overcap-abusing FAW would return them to a closer parity or even lower them below cannon abilities. However, that doesn't mean I can condone such ill-informed posts as the OP, who clearly don't know what they decry.
But be aware, that kind of damage has everything to do with piloting skills, build-knowledge and such. We could use handphasers against the borg and mob the "floor" with their cubes. There is a mission in this game named "knowledge is the key" which describes it pretty good.
But dont worry, if we were to use CSV with DHCs, the outcome would be the same
Piloting for the super high end maybe (and even then, its more just exploiting flaws in the game than anything else), but even just as a starting point a trained monkey can do 30k if they spend enough money and follow instructions so 'complicated' you could write it on a post-it.
That said OP, its more than JUST FAW alone, but rather a number of mechanics that become silly powerful when minmaxed enough, all stacked together to create that gamebreaking stuff. FAW is only the most visible component of it, a symptom but not the cause.
As a "cliche" example, perhaps, of how a run might go...
Entrance - Trash Mobs
The "+" - Trash Mobs
Go Left - MiniBoss
Go Right - MiniBoss
Go Forward - MainBoss & Trash Mobs
With scatterings of Trash Mobs between those points.
So you're going to have engagements where you want your AoE and where you want your ST...and even where you'll want AoE and ST split amongst the group.
STO doesn't really do that...almost everything is designed around AoE damage. Maps tend to be designed around either FAW or CSV...so wham, bam...they shine. You go into other areas of the game where that's not the case, where the focus is on single target damage - and - it's different.
So while it may be true that for folks to parse the numbers they do with FAW requires all sorts of planning, gearing, and skill on their end - you have to keep in mind just how over the top all those numbers are for the content...and instead, take a look at the mindless spacebar mashing that can complete the content and what that requires one actually to do.
It's possible to bash all sorts of things without it being a bash against all sorts of other things...one can /facepalm various abilities and content without that taking anything away from those that excel at that content or with certain abilities.
Rather than spamming all around you or in a fixed arc it would only target things in the 180 degree arc you are looking at.
I'm thinking it would work similar to CSV but as it allows the beams to fire faster it could be almost like a combo of CSV & CRF for beams.
Too many times I've tried to take out a group of enemies with BFAW only to aggro some dude i didn't even know was near me because it shoots all over the place.
Surely my boffs can work out that if we're targeting the probes to starboard, don't go and aggro the tac cube of the port bow!
With beams you really only go full on AOE aggro or you go single target with BO, there's no middle ground for dealing with specific groups in the way a cannon user can.
I'm confused. If two of the five team members were enough to kill everything in a few seconds...how the hell did you fail?
He didn't say they failed. He said it was not fun "not because we failed it"...so it wasn't a complaint about a failed run..it's a complaint about a successful run that wasn't fun.
It's tough to even imagine the difficulty that involves...
with NPC's that haven't moved in years. Dang tuff!
Damn instance has only been out a few years and ALREADY it's on farm?
Who else know's about this?
Ah ok, I misinterpreted it.
I have had my ship with a faw build... I know exactally what a faw build can do.
and no, you do not need any carefull piloting to deal 50-60k dps because you do not need to take your target in a small firing arc, may be to deal 85-100k dps because you want to have as many target as possible around you, not to deal 50-60k. And romulan toons also have the shield absorptive frequency generator: the more damage you deal the more healing you have.
you simply need to join a dps-xxxxx invite for an stf to see what I am telling about.
p.s.
I know exactally it's not faw but several mechanics combined with faw... but all of that mechanics are nothing without a firing mode to hit everything around you in a 10km sphere, a lot of times in a few seconds without missing one target. That's why you can't do easly more than 25-30k dps using a solo cannons build.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
we didn't fail... simply it wasn't funny because my 25-27k dps contortrix (I do not think it's bad for a solo cannons build) was useless. They destroyed everything in a few seconds.
i
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
FAW is at the first place. All of the buff, boff passives, captain skills... do not give you the ability to do the same using cannons and csv. Remember: csv allow you to hit up to 3 targets at the same time, only if you have a selected target, and only if the selectet target is i your 45 degree firing arc within 10km... all of the 3 npcs must stay in your firing arc.
Using faw you do not need to have a selected target, just targettable objects within 10km, each of your weapons hit 2 target at the same time for several seconds (csv is only 2 firing sequences), so you can hit much more than 3 targets at the same time, and never missing (csv can miss).
Dealing more than 30k dps with a solo cannons build is not easy even if you pay and upgrade the best items in the game
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
The Rapid...
The Spread/Multiple...
The Heavy...
CRF...Cannon Rapid.
CSV...Cannon Spread.
HY...Torpedo Heavy.
TS...Torpedo Spread.
BO...Beam Heavy.
FAW...Beam Rapid and Spread.
Yes, I'll concede that arrays do have limited 360* coverage, but they also fire on one fewer target per array, as well as deal severely lower damage per hit within their optimum effective range vs DHCs. There's a reason dhc's are essentially mandatory for elite-level nws while arrays just can't compete. Match the tools to the task at hand.
And please op, try harder to get good abilities nerfed. now that levelling even with these "op pls nerf" abilities takes a staggering amount of time, let's have them make the grind even longer. I'm sure everyone will appreciate it.
8 beams, no target selected, you could potentially hit 16 targets, eh? Each beam selecting two targets...
Not true. Many weapons continue their firing cycle after the target leaves the arc. Lol, do you really think folks are maintaining 70 degree broadsides? Heh...seriously?
Beam Arrays have a 250 arc. Only the front and aft 110 get hits from their respective arrays...outside of the nagging issue of weapon cycles continuing outside of their arcs.
180 front
180 aft
360 total
The 250 arc provides 35 on each side into the opposing arc. 180 - 70 = 110.
That you saw it as 90 is likely evidence of experiencing the issue of weapons continuing their cycles while out of arc.
For this challenge, can the person have even the most basic understanding of how to turn a ship against enemies that generally sit still?
So the 250 arc or the 90 arc weapons have less coverage than the 45 arc weapons? Curious.
You uh, um, also realize that the range penalty for cannons is higher than it is for beams? Well, obviously not with what you stated there...but uh, it is.
~10km, cannons are doing ~40% of their damage.
~10km, beams are doing ~60% of their damage.
Where you get into the fun with the Beams and DHCs would be the base for a Beam Array being 100, a Beam Bank being 130, and the Dual Heavy Cannons being 174. This is somewhat offset by the base of Turrets being 45 and the 45 arc of the DHCs.
876 with a 45 arc vs. 800 with a 70 arc. That sort of thing...course, you also have to figure in the RoF of the 2/3 & 4/3 vs. 4/5...toss in the range penalty. Get into various other things, etc, etc, etc.
Couldn't say in the least what was mandatory for NWS...will have to leave that to other folks.
And there's the crux of the matter...waaaah, don't fix my broken stuff, omgherd this crazy stuff will take me even longer and I need it all yesterday!
/facepalm
lets them pve heroes play with broken content and wonder why the game is not fun no matter how much new bs they get.
Heh, I'd forgotten I'd said that...lol.
Still think it's funny how neither LinkedIn nor Twitter showed any new job, and it looked like he quit to go play WoW.
Its very easy to fail... AFK penalty !! If you fly to slow after a pair of high-dps'rs and all is gone before you get there, at the end you didn't do damage, you will be market as afk !!!
Do you still get marked AFK if you're healing them? I know CC pays attention to healer work, but do the other queues? Sure, they might not want it, but if you never shoot anything you should be able to use Full Impulse to keep up and toss heals at them... or are we talking the folks that never take damage because they purge all before them in the helfires of oblivion?
Oh, as a side note, B:FAW lands up to 10 strikes per volley (at 2+ targets), at a slower cyclic rate than cannons (usually two volleys per B:FAW), at random targets. C:SV lands up to 12 stikes per volley (at 3+ targets), at a faster cyclic rate than beams (usually three volleys per C:SV), at targets within a cone around your current target. Both require an amount of positioning, B:FAW to keep your targets within your 70 broadside arcs (or at east two within the arc of each weapon across both 250 arcs) and C:SV to keep them in a cone around your current target (usually that cone needs to be within the forward 180 degrees, unless for some odd reason you're using nothing but turrets). The main failings of C:SV compared to B:FAW are the cone AoE and faster damage dropoff for cannons... the combination makes it extremely difficult to maintain optimal range and strike the necessary 3 targets to exceed the performance of B:FAW... but C:SV can strike more targets per activation and can be used against specific targets as long as you've locked onto one (rather than through positioning).
So that's what happened. I was beginning to wonder
Yes, please.
Look, it took these guys years to figure out debuff stacking and the wonders of negative resistance. It takes practice to maneuver around stationary targets to get the correct ranges.
Remember, there's a REASON they parse teams in ISA. It will come to you if you think on it.
However before talking about how much a skilled pilot you have to be or how much difficult is dealing 40-50k dps using faw, just try to do the same using the ship you like, the gears you want except using a cannons only build.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
In season 6 if you didn't have DHCs you basically couldn't destroy anything solo with a beam boat unless you were a Klingon with the plasmonic leach
plasmonic leach started it...EPS consoles before that............now there are even more ways to prop up excessive power levels and to maintain your spikes of power which is where the dps comes from
beam overload is a pvp only skill balanced for pvp and dos very little damage in pve content its not even worth slotting on your ship
That leaves BfaW as the only special attack that does damage
Beams need a scatter volley type attack and a rapid fire type attack first then tone down the Bfaw
but across the board weapons need to draw more power than they do now
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Fuels all sorts of things, eh? Used to be a...fudge, brainfart...choice isn't the word I'm looking for...meh. Ah, opportunity cost. STO used involve more opportunity costs. With Subsystem Power, sure - you could have this, maybe this and that, and so forth...now it's just...wheee, got everything! But, imho, it's not just Subsystems they did that with...it's been Cryptic's campaign since the F2P to eliminate opportunity costs. Much like Exploration Clusters, they had too many players getting lost in exploring opportunity costs.