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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

Iconians: Evil or just misunderstood?

mhirtescmhirtesc Member Posts: 581 Arc User
edited November 2014 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
This bit of video makes one wonder:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqE5p6nypc
Post edited by mhirtesc on
«13

Comments

  • kitsunesnoutkitsunesnout Member Posts: 1,210 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    There is still nothing to prove that what we are dealing with in game is really actual Iconians, can still be someone impersonating them that has adapted their technology, after all, we do it ourselves all the time! *Looks at Dyson ships, Undine ground armor we use, borg parts, you name it*

    I think if Cryptic really wants to pull more plot twists in the future, they'll probably reveal that we really actually are not dealing with the real Iconians of the past, maybe the Kelvans instead or something, considering the reference to the Andromeda galaxy being connected to the gateway system.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    My thought on the connection between the Iconians and Kelvans is that the Kelvans may have scouted the Milky Way as part of their efforts to escape the Iconians.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Icnonais are neither evil nor misunderstood. No more so than the Federation/KDF/Romulan alliance which have single-handedly become the most powerful destructive force in the galaxy. They just happen to be more technologically advanced than us and most probably see this new alliance as a potential threat to their own civilization and culture. As such they are working to protect themselves, just as we have protected ourselves from the Klingons and Roumlans of the past, the Undine, Cardassians, etc.

    The Iconans are nothing more than a mirror image of what we will eventually become if we are not stopped.


    (how's that for a pep talk? LOL)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    You will forever be missed and never forgotten.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    markhawkman wrote: »
    My thought on the connection between the Iconians and Kelvans is that the Kelvans may have scouted the Milky Way as part of their efforts to escape the Iconians.
    no, the kelvans didn't leave andromeda to escape the iconians; they left andromeda to escape andromeda, because rising radiation levels were making it uninhabitable
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    no, the kelvans didn't leave andromeda to escape the iconians; they left andromeda to escape andromeda, because rising radiation levels were making it uninhabitable
    Yes... but... why were the radiation levels rising? Seems a bit unnatural don't you think?

    It's just conjecture really, there's no proof really. But... it seems plausible to me.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    no, the kelvans didn't leave andromeda to escape the iconians; they left andromeda to escape andromeda, because rising radiation levels were making it uninhabitable

    Rising radiation levels.
    May be caused by, I dunno... exploding stars? Omega particle experiments?
    Could well be Iconians, for we KNOW they are in Andromeda (SoI).
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
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  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot
    thunderfoot#5163
         Member Posts: 4,545 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The Iconians are EBIL! Why? 'Cuz the Devs told me they were Ebil! The Devs wouldn't lie would they? :P
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,696 Community Moderator
    edited November 2014
    Someone manipulated the Undine, which sparked a war between the two major powers in the Alpha Quadrant, which led to the events of STO. We also have the Elachi harassing the Romulans.

    It was an attempt at Divide and Conquer. United, the Federation and the Klingon Empire were formidable. Make them fight each other... they weaken each other to a point they might not be able to resist an invasion. The Elachi tried to weakien the fledgeling Romulan Republic to prevent them from becoming a major power.

    Everything in game points to Iconian influence. They want what used to be theirs, and they are afraid history might repeat itself. However, their own manipulations is fueling every move against them now. We have access to their gates, two Dyson Spheres, and managed to forge an alliance and dang near end the war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire in the face of a bigger threat.

    Will be interesting to see what comes next.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Yes... but... why were the radiation levels rising? Seems a bit unnatural don't you think?

    It's just conjecture really, there's no proof really. But... it seems plausible to me.
    i'm gonna go with death star galaxy myself, which is completely natural
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    i'm gonna go with death star galaxy myself

    This is Cryptic. Iconians have access to Andromeda, so you can bet everything happening over there happens because of the Iconians. :P
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
    latest?cb=20130715204749
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    i'm gonna go with death star galaxy myself, which is completely natural
    Theoretically possible, but unlikely. Andromeda is about the same size as the Milky Way. None of the know galaxies near it is large enough to make a burst big enough.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,901 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I don't see how anyone could say they aren't evil...I mean they enslaved numerous species, would appear that they're manipulating/controlling other species to take us down, they have plans to enslave the galaxy, they captured Sela's ship, and last but not least they killed several Klingons for no real reason and threatened the major alpha/beta quadrant powers on Qo'nos.

    I don't see how anyone could call them anything but evil...even if you ignore the manipulating of the Elachi and other subspace races seemingly involved with them there is more than enough evidence they're by no means good.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Theoretically possible, but unlikely. Andromeda is about the same size as the Milky Way. None of the know galaxies near it is large enough to make a burst big enough.
    it could be the jet from that exact same galaxy in the article; it's far away, so the stream would've dissipated greatly, which would account for the slowly rising levels as opposed to rapidly rising ones you'd get with a galaxy far closer
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I don't see how anyone could say they aren't evil...I mean they enslaved numerous species, would appear that they're manipulating/controlling other species to take us down, they have plans to enslave the galaxy, they captured Sela's ship, and last but not least they killed several Klingons for no real reason and threatened the major alpha/beta quadrant powers on Qo'nos.

    I don't see how anyone could call them anything but evil...even if you ignore the manipulating of the Elachi and other subspace races seemingly involved with them there is more than enough evidence they're by no means good.

    They could have very well TURNED "evil" after they were almost bombed to oblivion the first time around.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
    latest?cb=20130715204749
    Buy gold!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    shadowfang240 wrote: »
    it could be the jet from that exact same galaxy in the article; it's far away, so the stream would've dissipated greatly, which would account for the slowly rising levels as opposed to rapidly rising ones you'd get with a galaxy far closer
    I think it's effects would dissipate over long ranges too much to be a threat.

    Also, the Death Star galaxy is not emanating any form of unusual radiation. It's simply a larger scale version of the jets seen to come from regular black holes.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • stomperx99stomperx99 Member Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=16c97953h&client=mv-google#/watch?v=cONmzaT4x10
    ZomboDroid10122015042230.jpg

    I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited November 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan
    legendarylycan#5411
         Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    markhawkman wrote: »
    I think it's effects would dissipate over long ranges too much to be a threat.

    Also, the Death Star galaxy is not emanating any form of unusual radiation. It's simply a larger scale version of the jets seen to come from regular black holes.
    Centuries ago, the Kelvans became aware of dangerously rising radiation levels in Andromeda, a development expected to make that galaxy uninhabitable for their species within 10,000,000 years (or 10,000 millennia). The Kelvan Empire dispatched expeditions of multi-generational starships to explore the neighboring galaxies for territories suitable for conquest and occupation. (TOS: "By Any Other Name")

    notice how that says nothing about unusual radiation? and 10 million years is more than enough time for radiation coming from a faraway galaxy to build up to dangerous levels
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"

    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Iconians is evil and missunderstood!... nuff said! :D
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,901 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    They could have very well TURNED "evil" after they were almost bombed to oblivion the first time around.

    Why were they bombed? Because races they enslaved got tired of it all and rebelled...and now what are they trying to do all of these many centuries later? Trying to do the same thing again...

    Were evil and still are evil...
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • xiaoping88xiaoping88 Member Posts: 1,493 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Why were they bombed? Because races they enslaved got tired of it all and rebelled..

    Watch OP's video.
    Reality is an illusion.
    The universe is a hologram.
    latest?cb=20130715204749
    Buy gold!
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I'm not saying they're Iconians, but... they're Iconians.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • hyperionx09hyperionx09 Member Posts: 1,709 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    We need a playable Rebel Iconian "race". Complete with exclusive OP ships and the option to choose a side like the Romulans, except he or she will willingly sacrifice NPC allies if it means saving the galaxy from his/her own race's ambitions.
  • moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    mhirtesc wrote: »
    This bit of video makes one wonder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqE5p6nypc

    Actually, it just turns out that for once, Worf was right and Picard was wrong.

    Yeah, who could have predicted that? :eek:
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,901 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    xiaoping88 wrote: »
    Watch OP's video.

    SO let me get this straight...you think they weren't aggressive that maybe they didn't enslave those races that bombed them...then they decided that many centuries later they would come back and enslave a entire galaxy of peoples that have nothing to do with the ones who bombed them?

    Aren't we grasping for straws a little here?
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    At the end of the day it does not really matter. STO is not canon. Cryptic wanted to make the Iconians the "big bad" for the game, and CBS went along with it.

    X years from now CBS could do something entirely different with the Iconians; and what they did WOULD be canon. CBS might decide they were evil or misunderstood saviors, or something else entirely.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,696 Community Moderator
    edited November 2014
    hyperionx09 wrote: »
    We need a playable Rebel Iconian "race". Complete with exclusive OP ships and the option to choose a side like the Romulans, except he or she will willingly sacrifice NPC allies if it means saving the galaxy from his/her own race's ambitions.

    I see a veiled *Cough*Tovan Khev*Cough* in that. :D

    Well... someone had to say it!
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
    normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
    colored text = mod mode
  • medalionemissarymedalionemissary Member Posts: 612 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The Iconians seek PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE!!!

    Stop attacking them with your laz0rs
    Deep Space Nine in HD, make it so!
  • venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    mhirtesc wrote: »
    This bit of video makes one wonder:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqE5p6nypc
    Iconians were most likely used as a story device, which explained the consequences of misusing technology. Everything in Star Trek has roots in literature, mythology, psychology, philosophy, and science.

    Romulans = French & Romans
    Romulus & Remus = Brothers in Roman Mythology
    Klingons vs. Federation = Cold War between Russia and US

    Iconians = Atlantis or Summarian Mythology

    Remember, Star Trek: TOS and TNG were written by Rodenberry's core staff. Star Trek: TNG was created as a literary commentary, which was based upon science, literature, philosophy, current events, and science.

    Atlantis was an extremely advanced society, which suddenly vanished without a trace. Plato believed Atlantis was sunk into the ocean. According to some controversial theorists, Atlantis represents the first technologically advanced society. Where did they go? Did they solve space travel? Were they wiped out in a flood?

    In order to solve the Iconian storyline, you will need to read up on the Atlantis mythologies and theories.

    According to Plato's theories, the Atlantians were a very peaceful people.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    According to Plato's theories, the Atlantians were a very peaceful people.
    It is a fascinating subject, but when you separate the fluff from the actual source... it's rather mundane. One interpretation is that it was actually a minor Greek city-state and located in the Aegean. I know, not as... interesting as Disney's version, but hey....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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