Your ship is your avatar.. your avatar is used to play the content of the game.... dur..
yes they did announce that the Garumba plus other older t5 ships would be getting fleet versions... your ignorance of that fact is not my responsibility to fix.
content is anything they slap in a game for people to play with. It can be your avatar, it can be a mission, it can be a ship or anything else you can think of
That being said you + your ship is your avatar in space they remove the player model and replace it with a ship still .. its content. If you have ever witnessed the bug where you spawn on a spacestation as your ship and not your "ground" avatar then you will realize how they do this in this instance... but its all content the ship, your avatar and anything else in the game
content is anything they slap in a game for people to play with. It can be your avatar, it can be a mission, it can be a ship or anything else you can think of
That being said you + your ship is your avatar in space they remove the player model and replace it with a ship still .. its content. If you have ever witnessed the bug where you spawn on a spacestation as your ship and not your "ground" avatar then you will realize how they do this in this instance... but its all content the ship, your avatar and anything else in the game
You need to take it into context of what he was saying.. he was saying adjusting the stats of ships was "adding" new content and new content should not be added till bug fix's are done. My comment is the ships were not added content. Yes taken out of context can change how that is taken.
In general content is referred to as what you play... if they announced a UI fix as "content" I'm sure most would be like.. what the...
Fixing a ship that they said would be a fleet ship is not is not adding "content".. that was what I was making a point of.. but totally went over his head as you can tell.
Really, the only ships I would expect to see make T6 aside from the Voyager (being the star of this current season) are all the T5 3 and 9-pack Bundle ships.
Simply replace them with T6 version for 1000 more, give them a trait per bundle (since their Mastery are the same despite Tac/Sci/Eng sub-variants), and allow existing T5 or T5U versions to be freely upgraded to T6. And let the packs count towards discounting their T6 Fleet versions.
If Cryptic announces it ahead of an update, players would scramble for the packs. If Cryptic announces it after the update (as a surprise/moneygrab), players will still scramble for the packs. Dyson alone would be the easy way to release a Rom/KDF Sci ship and a Mastery trait (and with the new skins, are more tolerable), and the Scimitar/Bortesqu' would guarantee a 4th Mastery trait for Rom/KDF. Granted, the same applies to Feds, on top of an Odyssey, Vesta, and Andorian Escort Mastery trait.
See that's the issue with the game.. the intrepid, galaxy, vor'cha etc were already out dated ships or older ships.. while the Oddy or borstqu were the cutting edge and they are far far from that. Aksing people to repay for all that is a bit much.. maybe they should do overhaul packs.. 1000 zen with xyz ships in them that upgrade to t6 mastery levels.
I could have said the same thing about the Intrepid, since the Dauntless was released...
I hope they do a T6 Defiant, with integrated cloak & Dual Quantum Torpedo launchers.
actually, not knowing what the intrepid6 boff layout will be i would think it's closer to scryer than dauntless. dauntless is actually a pretty nice ship. I may have to buy it.
source? 'cause as far as I'm concerned my ship is no more than my current weapon of choice...
Actually, Tacofangs said this in a thread a while ago when being asked to make the option to command our ships from the bridge availible. He said that this is impossible the way the game is structured, because the ship is our avatar in space, just as much as our humanoid is our avatar on the ground. He said that considering that, it's impossible for us to command the ship from within since the ship is our avatar.
Take me word for it or don't, but I'm not into digging throgh the search option to attempt to locate the thread and the reply atm. I'm sure other players know about this post as well.
And if we're being serious about it, the ship obviously is the avatar and much more than just a weapon of choice since you gear it, improve it, directly controll it, has equipment slots just as the ground character, etc...
actually, not knowing what the intrepid6 boff layout will be i would think it's closer to scryer than dauntless. dauntless is actually a pretty nice ship. I may have to buy it.
I rather enjoy my Dauntless. An ENG in the captains chair gives it a good bump to survivability.
Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
Actually, Tacofangs said this in a thread a while ago when being asked to make the option to command our ships from the bridge availible. He said that this is impossible the way the game is structured, because the ship is our avatar in space, just as much as our humanoid is our avatar on the ground. He said that considering that, it's impossible for us to command the ship from within since the ship is our avatar.
Take me word for it or don't, but I'm not into digging throgh the search option to attempt to locate the thread and the reply atm. I'm sure other players know about this post as well.
And if we're being serious about it, the ship obviously is the avatar and much more than just a weapon of choice since you gear it, improve it, directly controll it, has equipment slots just as the ground character, etc...
Really am getting very tired of seeing players get repeatedly screwed over by Cryptic, without so much as a half-assed attempt at an apology.
This is just such a low punch beneath the belt. Quite frankly all T5U owners should be entitled to unlock the T6 version for free, as they paid and upgraded the ship in good faith.
As they have said they have a content team and a bug fixing them.. they can do both.. I know, I know it shocking.
They don't.
They have a QA team whose job it is to find and replicate bugs. Most bugs don't happen for everyone consistently even if they happen every time for you. So they have a team whose job it is just to make the bugs happen in a controlled environment.
Then they have:
Character art (with sub-specialties in ship characters and ground characters).|
Environmental art.
UI art.
Systems (stats, combat systems, rewards, economy).
Content (people who both write the missions following Kestrel's lead and place the NPCs on maps and design enemy encounters).
Programming (which is handled by an outside group shared with NW, Champs, and a couple of in-development games. STO to the best of my knowledge has no programmers).
And just recently, Product, which is basically customer satisfaction, economy, and marketing design.
Now, what happens is that QA gets maybe 500 bugs reports a day in. They try to make those bugs happen again on a test server and often have trouble because the bug may be tied to something like a player's species or internet connection.
Once they ID a bug, they forward it to a team based on who they think can fix it. That team is busy working on new stuff and either they get permission to set aside new stuff to work on a bug, they work on it while waiting for approvals or a meeting, or they get told to ignore the bug because the new stuff can be estimated to result in more new players or player spending than the bug is estimated to be costing them; fixing a big is never worth costing yourself so much money by not doing a new feature that it would result in layoffs. There are dedicated bug replicators, not dedicated bug fixers. So then the bug goes to the back of the pile.
This is assuming it can be fixed without programming. If it requires programming to fix the bug, it goes to a separate programming division with very limited time that is basically an eternal unit, not tied to STO.
This is more or less how it works as I understand it.
They have a QA team whose job it is to find and replicate bugs. Most bugs don't happen for everyone consistently even if they happen every time for you. So they have a team whose job it is just to make the bugs happen in a controlled environment.
Then they have:
Character art (with sub-specialties in ship characters and ground characters).|
Environmental art.
UI art.
Systems (stats, combat systems, rewards, economy).
Content (people who both write the missions following Kestrel's lead and place the NPCs on maps and design enemy encounters).
Programming (which is handled by an outside group shared with NW, Champs, and a couple of in-development games. STO to the best of my knowledge has no programmers).
And just recently, Product, which is basically customer satisfaction, economy, and marketing design.
Now, what happens is that QA gets maybe 500 bugs reports a day in. They try to make those bugs happen again on a test server and often have trouble because the bug may be tied to something like a player's species or internet connection.
Once they ID a bug, they forward it to a team based on who they think can fix it. That team is busy working on new stuff and either they get permission to set aside new stuff to work on a bug, they work on it while waiting for approvals or a meeting, or they get told to ignore the bug because the new stuff can be estimated to result in more new players or player spending than the bug is estimated to be costing them; fixing a big is never worth costing yourself so much money by not doing a new feature that it would result in layoffs. There are dedicated bug replicators, not dedicated bug fixers. So then the bug goes to the back of the pile.
This is assuming it can be fixed without programming. If it requires programming to fix the bug, it goes to a separate programming division with very limited time that is basically an eternal unit, not tied to STO.
This is more or less how it works as I understand it.
So you typed all that backing up what I said.. they have a bug team and a content team. Just because they overlap doesn't mean they do not have enough to do both.
Actually, Tacofangs said this in a thread a while ago when being asked to make the option to command our ships from the bridge availible. He said that this is impossible the way the game is structured, because the ship is our avatar in space, just as much as our humanoid is our avatar on the ground. He said that considering that, it's impossible for us to command the ship from within since the ship is our avatar.
Take me word for it or don't, but I'm not into digging throgh the search option to attempt to locate the thread and the reply atm. I'm sure other players know about this post as well.
And if we're being serious about it, the ship obviously is the avatar and much more than just a weapon of choice since you gear it, improve it, directly controll it, has equipment slots just as the ground character, etc...
Wow.. we are on the same side on a discussion.. I, I almost do not know what to say
Told ya though I would go to bat for more KDF love...:)
Now we just need a T6 Garumba, T6 dedicated KDF sci ship maybe a Ferasan style craft.. something new and a retro T6 ship... maybe a Vor'Cha or a Bop something iconic.. oh a D7 T6
I'm not calling it communicating just yet. What we've seen that one strange day in the year to me was damage control. We're yet to see if they're up to the grusome task of communicating.
And I swear, I can't see for the love of Trek where things are getting better as much as I'd want to. This last pathetic excuse for an expansion has made the game take a nose-dive if anything.
People have legitimate issues with this quintuple dipping Cryptic is doing, not the fact that they've made one of the iconic ships be T6. Honestly, I find it disgusting as a business practice. How many times will one buy the Intrepid? If you count the times an Intrepid fan has bought that exact same ship over and over again just to be competitive, you'll end up with a sum more expensive than a new AAA title. For one ship.
Not to mention how they conveniently pretended that they'll only be making brand new T6 ships, so everyone that likes the ship gets to blow 700 Zen to get it to T5-U first. Can't have quadruple dipping when we can have quintuple, can we?
I agree with this position, we really aren't seeing a lot of actual ongoing open discussion with DEVs about what they are doing for the game and the amount of communication that we have seen now seems more like damage control, a short lived attempt to pacify people rather than a real dialogue about future developments, I say this because it hasn't taken long for things to slide right back into the pattern of silence about the problems that people bring up.
As for Cryptics double dipping, this is one of the reasons why I have no intention of spending money or using any other means to upgrade my ships to T-5u. For one thing, I think it's outrageous that an upgrade token should cost as much as it does considering that it upgrades a ship to something less than a full Tier 6, plus I think it would be beyond embarrassing to spend that amount, only to have a better alternative show up in the C-store a short time later, so my gut instinct is telling me to save my money for something that would be a more sensible investment, I can't be the only one who feels that way.
That said, one ship does not make a fleet, an upgraded Intrepid is no guarantee that other ships will be getting similar treatment, so this entire discussion seems far too premature in my opinion and I won't actually believe it until I see it happening. One thing I do hope for and that is if they do give other iconic ships of the franchise an update, they put in a complete effort, upgrading the graphics as well as the stats, many of these ships have been waiting far too long for some glaring defects to be fixed.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Still no ... there were Threads however, with people asking for "full Upgrades" insteadof T5U (MINUS the 30$ +/- 7$) ... I challenge you, to find more than 1 mad-man willing to pay 30 bucks for an simple Upgrade ... and again it's not even an upgrade ...
Besides the "but, you guys" argument is pretty silly ... we're not an collective hive mind ...
I'd do it, and I think I expressed myself as such. But I don't remember any threads specifically stating this. People just wanted real Tier 6 upgrades, not the in-betweens.
And I always expected that that would be the price of Tier 6 ships. The whole idea of a new tier of ships is also selling ships of that tier - and not just sell a cheap token, sell a full ship.
But because they knew that wouldn't fly with everyone and they decided they wanted new ship model options, a mastery trait and a console ability for the new tier 6 ships*, they probably kinda ndeeded to also had the kinda-sorta-almost-but-not-really-tier6 Tier 5 upgrade tokens so that people were not limited to the few DR ships.
*) Because these ships need some features that has a chance of convincing people that they actually get somthing for their money. Even if they still complain.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
So you typed all that backing up what I said.. they have a bug team and a content team. Just because they overlap doesn't mean they do not have enough to do both.
No. Bug fixing must be done by the same people who make the live game.
Problem with enemy placements or pathing? The live content team has to address it.
Problem with a map? The EV artist has to fit it in alongside new maps.
There is no dedicated character artist, EV artist, content developer, or systems designer who just does bug fixing.
When people talk about basically a live team and a development team in games like this, that would mean having two content teams, two EV art teams, two character teams, two systems teams, and two in-house programming teams.
Cryptic NOT having this is probably why they can pump out MMOs cheaper and faster than competitors and keep overhead low enough that games can stay live on smaller user bases, such as the Cryptic North hand off.
But there are tradeoffs associated with the approach as well. One of those is that bug fixing and development are handled by the same people and that bug fixing is generally a pain in the keister. Generally, I think the second unit team would probably also be tasked with trivial content development which could probably mean things like DOff add-ons and small missions which use no new assets.
No. Bug fixing must be done by the same people who make the live game.
Problem with enemy placements or pathing? The live content team has to address it.
Problem with a map? The EV artist has to fit it in alongside new maps.
There is no dedicated character artist, EV artist, content developer, or systems designer who just does bug fixing.
When people talk about basically a live team and a development team in games like this, that would mean having two content teams, two EV art teams, two character teams, two systems teams, and two in-house programming teams.
Cryptic NOT having this is probably why they can pump out MMOs cheaper and faster than competitors and keep overhead low enough that games can stay live on smaller user bases, such as the Cryptic North hand off.
But there are tradeoffs associated with the approach as well. One of those is that bug fixing and development are handled by the same people and that bug fixing is generally a pain in the keister. Generally, I think the second unit team would probably also be tasked with trivial content development which could probably mean things like DOff add-ons and small missions which use no new assets.
I think you totally miss understand different teams.
Dev team has a content team and bug team.. the bug team is to detect and identify what the bug is.
The content team is a multi team group your gameplay programmers such as skills and abilities, your art, world development group.
The bug teams job is to stream line it so that the content team is not being burdened with trying to recreate the bugs. There job is identification not necessarily fixing the bugs. Many times identifying the cause takes more time then fixing it.
So yes there are two teams.. they can work on both at the same time. You do not need 10 people of your art team to work on skill or a skill change.. so to say they cant do content and bug fix's both is a bogus and totally bs claim. That what the other guy was trying to argue.
Thank you very much for loking into and providing this.
It was getting close to 2am here when I made that reply and I was in no mood to search for it. :P
Wow.. we are on the same side on a discussion.. I, I almost do not know what to say
IKR? :P If lan451 hadn't provided Taco's quote, that would have been my next defense of the claim - if the two of us are agreeing on something, it must be true.
[QUOTE=shpoks;20748061
IKR? :P If lan451 hadn't provided Taco's quote, that would have been my next defense of the claim - if the two of us are agreeing on something, it must be true. [/QUOTE]
LoL... isn't that the truth..
So what's on your list if you could get some older KDF ships to T6?
Comments
content is anything they slap in a game for people to play with. It can be your avatar, it can be a mission, it can be a ship or anything else you can think of
That being said you + your ship is your avatar in space they remove the player model and replace it with a ship still .. its content. If you have ever witnessed the bug where you spawn on a spacestation as your ship and not your "ground" avatar then you will realize how they do this in this instance... but its all content the ship, your avatar and anything else in the game
You need to take it into context of what he was saying.. he was saying adjusting the stats of ships was "adding" new content and new content should not be added till bug fix's are done. My comment is the ships were not added content. Yes taken out of context can change how that is taken.
In general content is referred to as what you play... if they announced a UI fix as "content" I'm sure most would be like.. what the...
Fixing a ship that they said would be a fleet ship is not is not adding "content".. that was what I was making a point of.. but totally went over his head as you can tell.
See that's the issue with the game.. the intrepid, galaxy, vor'cha etc were already out dated ships or older ships.. while the Oddy or borstqu were the cutting edge and they are far far from that. Aksing people to repay for all that is a bit much.. maybe they should do overhaul packs.. 1000 zen with xyz ships in them that upgrade to t6 mastery levels.
actually, not knowing what the intrepid6 boff layout will be i would think it's closer to scryer than dauntless. dauntless is actually a pretty nice ship. I may have to buy it.
Actually, Tacofangs said this in a thread a while ago when being asked to make the option to command our ships from the bridge availible. He said that this is impossible the way the game is structured, because the ship is our avatar in space, just as much as our humanoid is our avatar on the ground. He said that considering that, it's impossible for us to command the ship from within since the ship is our avatar.
Take me word for it or don't, but I'm not into digging throgh the search option to attempt to locate the thread and the reply atm. I'm sure other players know about this post as well.
And if we're being serious about it, the ship obviously is the avatar and much more than just a weapon of choice since you gear it, improve it, directly controll it, has equipment slots just as the ground character, etc...
So they're going to release a, for example, T6 version of the Defiant?
Well they got some of my money then.
I rather enjoy my Dauntless. An ENG in the captains chair gives it a good bump to survivability.
> <
> <
>
I believe this is the quote you're looking for.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13463431&postcount=26
Mine Trap Supporter
This is just such a low punch beneath the belt. Quite frankly all T5U owners should be entitled to unlock the T6 version for free, as they paid and upgraded the ship in good faith.
They don't.
They have a QA team whose job it is to find and replicate bugs. Most bugs don't happen for everyone consistently even if they happen every time for you. So they have a team whose job it is just to make the bugs happen in a controlled environment.
Then they have:
Character art (with sub-specialties in ship characters and ground characters).|
Environmental art.
UI art.
Systems (stats, combat systems, rewards, economy).
Content (people who both write the missions following Kestrel's lead and place the NPCs on maps and design enemy encounters).
Programming (which is handled by an outside group shared with NW, Champs, and a couple of in-development games. STO to the best of my knowledge has no programmers).
And just recently, Product, which is basically customer satisfaction, economy, and marketing design.
Now, what happens is that QA gets maybe 500 bugs reports a day in. They try to make those bugs happen again on a test server and often have trouble because the bug may be tied to something like a player's species or internet connection.
Once they ID a bug, they forward it to a team based on who they think can fix it. That team is busy working on new stuff and either they get permission to set aside new stuff to work on a bug, they work on it while waiting for approvals or a meeting, or they get told to ignore the bug because the new stuff can be estimated to result in more new players or player spending than the bug is estimated to be costing them; fixing a big is never worth costing yourself so much money by not doing a new feature that it would result in layoffs. There are dedicated bug replicators, not dedicated bug fixers. So then the bug goes to the back of the pile.
This is assuming it can be fixed without programming. If it requires programming to fix the bug, it goes to a separate programming division with very limited time that is basically an eternal unit, not tied to STO.
This is more or less how it works as I understand it.
So you typed all that backing up what I said.. they have a bug team and a content team. Just because they overlap doesn't mean they do not have enough to do both.
Wow.. we are on the same side on a discussion.. I, I almost do not know what to say
Told ya though I would go to bat for more KDF love...:)
Now we just need a T6 Garumba, T6 dedicated KDF sci ship maybe a Ferasan style craft.. something new and a retro T6 ship... maybe a Vor'Cha or a Bop something iconic.. oh a D7 T6
As for Cryptics double dipping, this is one of the reasons why I have no intention of spending money or using any other means to upgrade my ships to T-5u. For one thing, I think it's outrageous that an upgrade token should cost as much as it does considering that it upgrades a ship to something less than a full Tier 6, plus I think it would be beyond embarrassing to spend that amount, only to have a better alternative show up in the C-store a short time later, so my gut instinct is telling me to save my money for something that would be a more sensible investment, I can't be the only one who feels that way.
That said, one ship does not make a fleet, an upgraded Intrepid is no guarantee that other ships will be getting similar treatment, so this entire discussion seems far too premature in my opinion and I won't actually believe it until I see it happening. One thing I do hope for and that is if they do give other iconic ships of the franchise an update, they put in a complete effort, upgrading the graphics as well as the stats, many of these ships have been waiting far too long for some glaring defects to be fixed.
Wouldn't it be cool if the Upgrade mechanics could be used for Upgrades, Fleet Retrofits, and Tier 6 variants. So much leaner and cleaner.
Maybe still just as expensive, but I don't care. I hate having to unequip gear, dismiss a ship, acquire the new variant, and re-equip it.
I'd do it, and I think I expressed myself as such. But I don't remember any threads specifically stating this. People just wanted real Tier 6 upgrades, not the in-betweens.
And I always expected that that would be the price of Tier 6 ships. The whole idea of a new tier of ships is also selling ships of that tier - and not just sell a cheap token, sell a full ship.
But because they knew that wouldn't fly with everyone and they decided they wanted new ship model options, a mastery trait and a console ability for the new tier 6 ships*, they probably kinda ndeeded to also had the kinda-sorta-almost-but-not-really-tier6 Tier 5 upgrade tokens so that people were not limited to the few DR ships.
*) Because these ships need some features that has a chance of convincing people that they actually get somthing for their money. Even if they still complain.
No. Bug fixing must be done by the same people who make the live game.
Problem with enemy placements or pathing? The live content team has to address it.
Problem with a map? The EV artist has to fit it in alongside new maps.
There is no dedicated character artist, EV artist, content developer, or systems designer who just does bug fixing.
When people talk about basically a live team and a development team in games like this, that would mean having two content teams, two EV art teams, two character teams, two systems teams, and two in-house programming teams.
Cryptic NOT having this is probably why they can pump out MMOs cheaper and faster than competitors and keep overhead low enough that games can stay live on smaller user bases, such as the Cryptic North hand off.
But there are tradeoffs associated with the approach as well. One of those is that bug fixing and development are handled by the same people and that bug fixing is generally a pain in the keister. Generally, I think the second unit team would probably also be tasked with trivial content development which could probably mean things like DOff add-ons and small missions which use no new assets.
I think you totally miss understand different teams.
Dev team has a content team and bug team.. the bug team is to detect and identify what the bug is.
The content team is a multi team group your gameplay programmers such as skills and abilities, your art, world development group.
The bug teams job is to stream line it so that the content team is not being burdened with trying to recreate the bugs. There job is identification not necessarily fixing the bugs. Many times identifying the cause takes more time then fixing it.
So yes there are two teams.. they can work on both at the same time. You do not need 10 people of your art team to work on skill or a skill change.. so to say they cant do content and bug fix's both is a bogus and totally bs claim. That what the other guy was trying to argue.
Thank you very much for loking into and providing this.
It was getting close to 2am here when I made that reply and I was in no mood to search for it. :P
IKR? :P If lan451 hadn't provided Taco's quote, that would have been my next defense of the claim - if the two of us are agreeing on something, it must be true.
IKR? :P If lan451 hadn't provided Taco's quote, that would have been my next defense of the claim - if the two of us are agreeing on something, it must be true.
LoL... isn't that the truth..
So what's on your list if you could get some older KDF ships to T6?