rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,691Community Moderator
edited November 2014
Sheridan was a pretty good leader.
Sisko was a pretty good leader.
Sheridan earned the name Starkiller from the Minbari for managing to destroy the Black Star with nothing but the crippled Lexington and some nukes in an asteroid field.
Sisko helped design Starfleet's first true warship, Defiant.
Both lost their ship in combat (Defiant against the Breen, White Star at Za'Ha'Doom.)
Both got replacement ships of the same class.
Both know how to fight their respective ships.
Sisko has Dax... both of them. (Yes... I count Ezri as well. She may have not been a science officer like Jadzia, but she was cute. )
Sheridan had Ivanova.
Sisko had Odo.
Sheridan had Garabaldi.
Sisko faced off against the Pah Wraiths.
Sheridan confronted the Vorlons AND the Shadows... and the Thirdspace Aliens...
Eh... I might have to give it to Sheridan... by 1 point.
Both the White Star and USS Defiant have similar capabilities as well, but I think the White Star might have an edge in offense with not only cannons but a beam weapon, while the Defiant has an edge in defense thanks to shield tech.
Both ships can also be described with one line.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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Quark (or Jadzia) vs. Londo or Vir at any form of gambling would certainly be a sight to see! I'd also like to see a shouting match between Kira and Ivanova.
Or a battle of witticisms between Marcus and Garak.
The version I heard was the Network demanded episodic content and the original writers walked.
No. Sorbo was one of the producers, and no matter what he likes to say to cover his own backside in later years, he directly said, "Robert is a genius, but he was writing stories too complex and too complicated for the rest of us to follow."
Wolfe was fired and mysteriously enough the show suddenly turned into a Kevin Sorbo led Hercules-in-Space....oh, and then tanked big time.
in a sort of fist fight or in the case of brains? or a comparison?
im assuming the latter, sheridan carries that bag further then sisko, seridan gets kicked down and he responds in kind in return by kicking his enemy down, but leaves enough room--most of the time, he can also fight on top of a bright personality, he also knows what is to come and walked into it anyway to save everyone.
sisko on the other hand, he couldnt handle pressure very well (moody, irritated, unpredictable, annoyed), some of his plans never get as far as he would like and when an enemy kicks him down he doesnt respond unless he feels he can be sure of victory, however his dedication is there from when he grew into a role he never wanted, never understood and was never fully convinced of over the years to save everyone.
when it comes right down to it, sisko doesnt have the courage on the same level as sheridan, and sheridan has greater respect for what hes doing, even a passion for it, doesnt matter if its killing an enemy, saving a confused would be traitor to be a friend to looking out for dalenn. sisko on the other hand used the rule book sometimes to justify his means, he the more lazy of the two in his thinking, he is not as capable either, but he gets through it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He probably could have just tricked the Shadows into joining the war.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Ground: Sisko, much better fighter.
Space : One whitestar against 100 defiants, the whitestar might have a messed up paint job. No way a ship designed by an race of ancients with tech from a god species would be beat by a ship destroyed by frosty the snowmen.
Tell that to the bog-standard Raider ships that trashed a White Star in the second episode of season five. Or any of the other dozens of times a White Star got shredded.
They're tough but they're far from invincible, just like the Defiant-class. I'd call it a toss-up unless we're referring to the original NX-74205 with a cloaking device.
the whitestar had shields, and a hull that could "borg immunity" energy damage leaving only the kinetic element of the strike.
how much mass does a phased energy beam have?
There's no such thing as shields in Babylon 5. Nobody has them, not even the First Ones. And as for the White Star's ability to adapt to incoming fire, there's no evidence they can do it in a battlefield-practical amount of time, unlike the Borg. The single time it was mentioned, after which it was forgotten about entirely, it was several weeks after the previous engagement.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,691Community Moderator
edited November 2014
To add to what starsword said...
The ONLY instance of shield tech we ever saw in Babylon 5 was in the movie Thirdspace, and they were on the ships belonging to the Thirdspace Aliens. It took like five hits just for them to notice they were being shot by a White Star. Then again these aliens were bad enough to scare even the Vorlons, and they don't scare easily due to age.
And if I remember correctly, the hull of the White Star was a combination of Minbari tech and Vorlon biotech, granting it improved durability and a limited ability to reflect a portion of the damage as well as limited self repair.
Or was the reflecting damage thing only on the Excalibur?
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
In ship-to-ship fighting, it's difficult to compare the Defiant with the White Star, as their maneuverability, resilience and firepower all seem roughly comparable when compared with their usual opponents. But you have to eventually hand it to the White Star .... there's gotta be a combat advantage in a ship whose crew's native language (true, through timeline pollution) regards the Earth phrase "aw, hell" as their command for "fire all weapons!" Gotta be a time-saver in getting off the first shot. It's definitely not "Hold your fire until we're within 500 meters." Also, the White Star had a technological advantage over all but three races in its universe - and was fighting a war on the same side as two of those, so they don't really count.
But the true fact of the matter is that - the episodes with Admiral Leyton aside - Sisko wasn't fighting a war against the galaxy's worst bad guys (even if the Dominion was that, which is itself debateable) AND his own government AT THE SAME TIME. And therefore having to forge his own alliance basically from scratch. And winning both wars anyway.
To be fair to Sisko and the Defiant, He did manage to help finish the construction of the mirror universe Defiant, then with an untested crew took on three Bird of Preys and the most powerful ship around, a Negh'var, nearly soloing it (until mirror Bashir showed up). Maybe not up to White Star standards, but certainly no small potatoes.
Well, ive never even watched Babylon 5. Had enough bad CGI from a brief (and I do mean brief) attempt to watch Andromeda. But, I'd wager a guess if someone can give me more info on Sheridan. Did he sit behind a desk most of the show like Sisco? Did he have a whiney, bratty son who rarely obeyed his fathers wishes or orders? Did he hand off most of the responsibility of running the station to his officers? Oh, hell, after all that, I'll just say Sheridan. Sisco is a desk jockey, not a captain. And no, commanding the Defiant doesn't make him a captain. Both run a frakking space station, and I know DS9 rarely saw any actual combat (let's face it, the dominion war was the only real test, and Sisco allowed it to be taken from him.
Well, ive never even watched Babylon 5. Had enough bad CGI from a brief (and I do mean brief) attempt to watch Andromeda.
To all those youngsters that never watched B5: Go watch it! Its only 5 seasons, and to be honest the 5th season is a bit lack lustre, mainly because the makers ofB5 were told you'll have 4 seasons, and they paced themselves and the story to that length, then they got a 5th season sprung on them. That said S5 is by no means bad, its just not as good.
It was, I think, one of the first sci-fi shows that, while it had episodic content it also have a much longer running narrative (IE: seasons worth). It also had some very interesting concepts, like the episode where the main characters are minor parts. They follow two Maintenance techs during a raider assault on B5. the pat that sticks in my mind is when the two of them are sitting there in a deserted level looking out the window having their sandwiches watching the battle rage around them
You also have Brester, played by Walter Koenig. He's a bad guy with style, background and plot.
You'll have real emotions when the the last guy leaves B5 and turns off the lights.
If you can't dedicate the time to 4 seasons, and just want shiny ship battles watch the episode "Severed Dreams".
Actually, the most interesting battle in B5 wasn't fought (at least that I recall, I'd have to go back and look) primarily with White Stars. It was in "Endgame" when the Alliance fleet was approaching Earth. The Alliance intentionally held back all of its ships except for the Omegas (and I am not sure but the White Stars might have been in there as well), then had to rush in the rest of the fleet to back them up. Sheridan, at the time, had temporarily reclaimed the EAS Agamemnon.
Actually... I believe it was Sheridan's decision to keep to Earth ships to not play into Clark's hands, as well as to keep from bringing up memories of The Battle of the Line. This was a Civil War after all, between Earth forces loyal to Clark and those who saw the illegal orders for what they were. Having nonhumans on the front lines might not go over very well, and Clark could say he's innocent and that the "Rebel" forces were under alien influence.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Actually, the most interesting battle in B5 wasn't fought (at least that I recall, I'd have to go back and look) primarily with White Stars. It was in "Endgame" when the Alliance fleet was approaching Earth. The Alliance intentionally held back all of its ships except for the Omegas (and I am not sure but the White Stars might have been in there as well), then had to rush in the rest of the fleet to back them up. Sheridan, at the time, had temporarily reclaimed the EAS Agamemnon.
In the Beginning, Sheridan in command of a crippled Earth Hyperion managed to lure a Minbari flagship into a asteroid field laced with tactical nukes and destroyed it.
Sisko, with the use of a captured Bugship, he managed to destroy a strategically important ketrocel white base
Both moments of genius from both captains
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
With their full arsenals at their disposal? As in DS9 + USS Defiant v. B5 + White Star? I think Sheridan wins.
Mano a mano feats of strength, like an arm-wrestling match? Sisko.
Battle of wits? Sheridan, but it's close.
Home run derby? Definitely Sisko.
Iron Chef-style cookoff? Sisko by miles, esepecially if the secret ingredient is shrimp.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
To all those youngsters that never watched B5: Go watch it! Its only 5 seasons, and to be honest the 5th season is a bit lack lustre, mainly because the makers ofB5 were told you'll have 4 seasons, and they paced themselves and the story to that length, then they got a 5th season sprung on them. That said S5 is by no means bad, its just not as good.
Agreed. I'd also point out that season 1 is a stage-setting season, with a different lead. As a result, some friends I've known don't push onward, which is unfortunate. Had they been patient, by episode 4 of the second season, things really start cooking. Even in the first season, the complex interactions of main characters Londo & G'Kar are almost Shakespearean at times, Laurel & Hardy at others. Well worth it. Besides, 1st season has Dwight Shultz, aka Trek's Barclay, in a prominent guest role. :cool:
Also, you really should view the pilot movie, more stage-setting, though I'll warn you that the important alien race, the Minbari, had not been finalized in the design details, and as a result, they look drastically different than in the series. Even more so than Klingon variations. Still worth the effort.
The sequel series, Crusade, unfortunately ran fowl of the axe-wielders, but the 13 episodes are still fun to watch. As are almost all the movies, including the Rangers pilot. The only ones I didn't like were the straight-to-video "Lost Tales" (I think it was called). Those were rubbish, but otherwise, good stuff.
the most amusing moment in the show is when "Starkiller" Sheridan gets assigned to B5. The Minbari act like they're scared to be in the same room.
....no they're not. They were insulted that this was the man chosen to command the station supposedly intended for international diplomacy. He blew up the Black Star 'dishonourably' and they hate him for it. The Minbari aren't intimidated by or scared of Sheridan.
Agreed. I'd also point out that season 1 is a stage-setting season, with a different lead. As a result, some friends I've known don't push onward, which is unfortunate. Had they been patient, by episode 4 of the second season, things really start cooking. Even in the first season, the complex interactions of main characters Londo & G'Kar are almost Shakespearean at times, Laurel & Hardy at others. Well worth it. Besides, 1st season has Dwight Shultz, aka Trek's Barclay, in a prominent guest role. :cool:
Actually Schultz's character didn't turn up until the early part of season two. And yes, he's delightfully mad as usual (he also played the original "Howling Mad" Murdock on The A-Team). Cuts quite a sympathetic character, too, even nowadays, considering the source of his madness this time: he's a war vet with crippling PTSD.
The sequel series, Crusade, unfortunately ran fowl of the axe-wielders, but the 13 episodes are still fun to watch. As are almost all the movies, including the Rangers pilot. The only ones I didn't like were the straight-to-video "Lost Tales" (I think it was called). Those were rubbish, but otherwise, good stuff.
....no they're not. They were insulted that this was the man chosen to command the station supposedly intended for international diplomacy. He blew up the Black Star 'dishonourably' and they hate him for it. The Minbari aren't intimidated by or scared of Sheridan.
Which is rather hilarious considering he was just using their own bloody-mindedness against them. As Chuck Sonnenburg pointed out, you're fighting a total war and not giving a damn about civilians or surrender offers, responding to distress signals by blowing the frak out of the people sending them, and then you have the temerity to be insulted by the other side using your own dishonorable actions against you and actually winning one?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Which is rather hilarious considering he was just using their own bloody-mindedness against them. As Chuck Sonnenburg pointed out, you're fighting a total war and not giving a damn about civilians or surrender offers, responding to distress signals by blowing the frak out of the people sending them, and then you have the temerity to be insulted by the other side using your own dishonorable actions against you and actually winning one?
The complete lack of any remorse or apology from the Minbari for their attempted xenocide is one of the big sticking points of the setting, yes. I consider it a major weakness considering the Centauri spend the entirety of the series run being screwed over, and for a long time afterwards as the various glimpses of the future show, for 'merely' enslaving the Narn and being generally imperialist a-holes.
Pretty sure only the absolute craziest of Narn wouldn't take the Centauri over total species obliteration because due to 'Minbari honour'.
It gets ever more disgusting when we have an entire episode of that poor PTSD and guilt ridden guy actually wanting forgiveness from the Minbari.
Which is rather hilarious considering he was just using their own bloody-mindedness against them. As Chuck Sonnenburg pointed out, you're fighting a total war and not giving a damn about civilians or surrender offers, responding to distress signals by blowing the frak out of the people sending them, and then you have the temerity to be insulted by the other side using your own dishonorable actions against you and actually winning one?
Yeah, Minbari "honor" is even crazier than Klingon honor....
Ok, now that I think again, the Minbari loathing of Starkiller wasn't quite fear, but they absoluteley couldn't stand the guy, well except Delenn....
[...]the complex interactions of main characters Londo & G'Kar are almost Shakespearean at times [...]
Aaaand that reminds me of the other great quote:
"What do you want?"
" I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. "
" I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. "
And he does as well.
Classic Vir
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Comments
Sisko was a pretty good leader.
Sheridan earned the name Starkiller from the Minbari for managing to destroy the Black Star with nothing but the crippled Lexington and some nukes in an asteroid field.
Sisko helped design Starfleet's first true warship, Defiant.
Both lost their ship in combat (Defiant against the Breen, White Star at Za'Ha'Doom.)
Both got replacement ships of the same class.
Both know how to fight their respective ships.
Sisko has Dax... both of them. (Yes... I count Ezri as well. She may have not been a science officer like Jadzia, but she was cute.
Sheridan had Ivanova.
Sisko had Odo.
Sheridan had Garabaldi.
Sisko faced off against the Pah Wraiths.
Sheridan confronted the Vorlons AND the Shadows... and the Thirdspace Aliens...
Eh... I might have to give it to Sheridan... by 1 point.
Both the White Star and USS Defiant have similar capabilities as well, but I think the White Star might have an edge in offense with not only cannons but a beam weapon, while the Defiant has an edge in defense thanks to shield tech.
Both ships can also be described with one line.
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Except that wouldn't end in a fight: that would end in the two going out drinking together.
Or a battle of witticisms between Marcus and Garak.
No. Sorbo was one of the producers, and no matter what he likes to say to cover his own backside in later years, he directly said, "Robert is a genius, but he was writing stories too complex and too complicated for the rest of us to follow."
Wolfe was fired and mysteriously enough the show suddenly turned into a Kevin Sorbo led Hercules-in-Space....oh, and then tanked big time.
in a sort of fist fight or in the case of brains? or a comparison?
im assuming the latter, sheridan carries that bag further then sisko, seridan gets kicked down and he responds in kind in return by kicking his enemy down, but leaves enough room--most of the time, he can also fight on top of a bright personality, he also knows what is to come and walked into it anyway to save everyone.
sisko on the other hand, he couldnt handle pressure very well (moody, irritated, unpredictable, annoyed), some of his plans never get as far as he would like and when an enemy kicks him down he doesnt respond unless he feels he can be sure of victory, however his dedication is there from when he grew into a role he never wanted, never understood and was never fully convinced of over the years to save everyone.
when it comes right down to it, sisko doesnt have the courage on the same level as sheridan, and sheridan has greater respect for what hes doing, even a passion for it, doesnt matter if its killing an enemy, saving a confused would be traitor to be a friend to looking out for dalenn. sisko on the other hand used the rule book sometimes to justify his means, he the more lazy of the two in his thinking, he is not as capable either, but he gets through it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
He probably could have just tricked the Shadows into joining the war.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Tell that to the bog-standard Raider ships that trashed a White Star in the second episode of season five. Or any of the other dozens of times a White Star got shredded.
They're tough but they're far from invincible, just like the Defiant-class. I'd call it a toss-up unless we're referring to the original NX-74205 with a cloaking device.
There's no such thing as shields in Babylon 5. Nobody has them, not even the First Ones. And as for the White Star's ability to adapt to incoming fire, there's no evidence they can do it in a battlefield-practical amount of time, unlike the Borg. The single time it was mentioned, after which it was forgotten about entirely, it was several weeks after the previous engagement.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The ONLY instance of shield tech we ever saw in Babylon 5 was in the movie Thirdspace, and they were on the ships belonging to the Thirdspace Aliens. It took like five hits just for them to notice they were being shot by a White Star. Then again these aliens were bad enough to scare even the Vorlons, and they don't scare easily due to age.
And if I remember correctly, the hull of the White Star was a combination of Minbari tech and Vorlon biotech, granting it improved durability and a limited ability to reflect a portion of the damage as well as limited self repair.
Or was the reflecting damage thing only on the Excalibur?
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
To be fair to Sisko and the Defiant, He did manage to help finish the construction of the mirror universe Defiant, then with an untested crew took on three Bird of Preys and the most powerful ship around, a Negh'var, nearly soloing it (until mirror Bashir showed up). Maybe not up to White Star standards, but certainly no small potatoes.
To all those youngsters that never watched B5: Go watch it! Its only 5 seasons, and to be honest the 5th season is a bit lack lustre, mainly because the makers ofB5 were told you'll have 4 seasons, and they paced themselves and the story to that length, then they got a 5th season sprung on them. That said S5 is by no means bad, its just not as good.
It was, I think, one of the first sci-fi shows that, while it had episodic content it also have a much longer running narrative (IE: seasons worth). It also had some very interesting concepts, like the episode where the main characters are minor parts. They follow two Maintenance techs during a raider assault on B5. the pat that sticks in my mind is when the two of them are sitting there in a deserted level looking out the window having their sandwiches watching the battle rage around them
You also have Brester, played by Walter Koenig. He's a bad guy with style, background and plot.
You'll have real emotions when the the last guy leaves B5 and turns off the lights.
If you can't dedicate the time to 4 seasons, and just want shiny ship battles watch the episode "Severed Dreams".
I'd forgotten about how they launch Starfruies and how awesome it is, until you reminded me.
Classic speeches? This one?
"Do not force us to engage your ship."
"Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me."
Actually... I believe it was Sheridan's decision to keep to Earth ships to not play into Clark's hands, as well as to keep from bringing up memories of The Battle of the Line. This was a Civil War after all, between Earth forces loyal to Clark and those who saw the illegal orders for what they were. Having nonhumans on the front lines might not go over very well, and Clark could say he's innocent and that the "Rebel" forces were under alien influence.
"If you value your lives... be somewhere else."
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
In the Beginning, Sheridan in command of a crippled Earth Hyperion managed to lure a Minbari flagship into a asteroid field laced with tactical nukes and destroyed it.
Sisko, with the use of a captured Bugship, he managed to destroy a strategically important ketrocel white base
Both moments of genius from both captains
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
My character Tsin'xing
Its time I watched it again plus I think I've not seen all the moves.
With their full arsenals at their disposal? As in DS9 + USS Defiant v. B5 + White Star? I think Sheridan wins.
Mano a mano feats of strength, like an arm-wrestling match? Sisko.
Battle of wits? Sheridan, but it's close.
Home run derby? Definitely Sisko.
Iron Chef-style cookoff? Sisko by miles, esepecially if the secret ingredient is shrimp.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Agreed. I'd also point out that season 1 is a stage-setting season, with a different lead. As a result, some friends I've known don't push onward, which is unfortunate. Had they been patient, by episode 4 of the second season, things really start cooking. Even in the first season, the complex interactions of main characters Londo & G'Kar are almost Shakespearean at times, Laurel & Hardy at others. Well worth it. Besides, 1st season has Dwight Shultz, aka Trek's Barclay, in a prominent guest role. :cool:
Also, you really should view the pilot movie, more stage-setting, though I'll warn you that the important alien race, the Minbari, had not been finalized in the design details, and as a result, they look drastically different than in the series. Even more so than Klingon variations. Still worth the effort.
The sequel series, Crusade, unfortunately ran fowl of the axe-wielders, but the 13 episodes are still fun to watch. As are almost all the movies, including the Rangers pilot. The only ones I didn't like were the straight-to-video "Lost Tales" (I think it was called). Those were rubbish, but otherwise, good stuff.
....no they're not. They were insulted that this was the man chosen to command the station supposedly intended for international diplomacy. He blew up the Black Star 'dishonourably' and they hate him for it. The Minbari aren't intimidated by or scared of Sheridan.
Just picked up Crusade from Wal-Mart today.
Which is rather hilarious considering he was just using their own bloody-mindedness against them. As Chuck Sonnenburg pointed out, you're fighting a total war and not giving a damn about civilians or surrender offers, responding to distress signals by blowing the frak out of the people sending them, and then you have the temerity to be insulted by the other side using your own dishonorable actions against you and actually winning one?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The complete lack of any remorse or apology from the Minbari for their attempted xenocide is one of the big sticking points of the setting, yes. I consider it a major weakness considering the Centauri spend the entirety of the series run being screwed over, and for a long time afterwards as the various glimpses of the future show, for 'merely' enslaving the Narn and being generally imperialist a-holes.
Pretty sure only the absolute craziest of Narn wouldn't take the Centauri over total species obliteration because due to 'Minbari honour'.
It gets ever more disgusting when we have an entire episode of that poor PTSD and guilt ridden guy actually wanting forgiveness from the Minbari.
Ok, now that I think again, the Minbari loathing of Starkiller wasn't quite fear, but they absoluteley couldn't stand the guy, well except Delenn....
My character Tsin'xing
Aaaand that reminds me of the other great quote:
"What do you want?"
" I'd like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price. I would look up at your lifeless eyes and wave like this. "
And he does as well.
Classic Vir
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius