errrm.. lol the game is for the customers so if one doesnt take note then word will get around that your product is s***. Before long nobody is buying your product, it fails and your company then needs a new product quick time before it goes under.
Most definitely the customer is right 90% of the time.
Its very much like asking the builders building your new fancy house to include features some of which are necessary... in the end they don't include the requested features and totally stiff you on the quality. (leaning walls and such) Obviously at that point one would withdraw from the contract and cease any payment.
(And its no good them building a bench at the bottom of your swimming pool to try and comfort the shear lack of acceptability.)
Know what i mean?
nah the other guy is right that more often than not the customer has no clue what the hell s/he's talking about in what they want. this is mostly because the customer only wants the end result, without giving half a thought to the feasibility of attaining said end result or the cost needed to attain said end result. and really, why would they know or care? their mentality is "i'm the one throwing money at you, make it happen!"
well im not happy about allot of things mostly the treatment of the KDF and the IP in general.
then the xp gains . i dont mind the money stuff too much because as a KDF player they really dont even have much they are trying to sell me . what 2 ships for DR nothing else .
but if we disgruntled players who don't like the dil money grab all and i mean all of us just wernt and started playing on tribble dil is free there LOL it really wouldnt cost us anything. then when they caught on to it and made tribble sub only then we decide if its worth paying for or not. if so we pay if not we leave . its the only solution i can see working because they are not going to change the core of the game as it fits the model they want.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I've been doing mirror event on 1 character and that's it.
Don't go after contraband, don't convert anything, don't sell anything on exchange, don't play queues and am not in-game minus those 10 minutes for mirror.
If that was their objective, mission accomplished - you got me...
Once mirror is done I could see myself doing some kind of daily for a t6 christmas ship, if not have no reason to play.
I don't think the game is any danger or anything though - like we talked about a million times they are enough star trek fan whales to carry it no matter what.
Aslong as it's f2p there will be enough people to come queue up with the whales unlike the sub model.
However that doesn't exclude the developers being told exactly where their product is currently at
I was going to leave this thread be, but today I had my first visit from the bug that clears your active doffs. Which I hear has been around for a while. These things really don't inspire confidence, especially because it's part of a panel of basic function bugs.
No - loadouts don't fix it, so don't go there. (and why were my ground doffs fine? weird)
And let me tell you - that's important. I need to feel a little confidence to shell out $$ for this thing.
Thank you guys for posting here, experiences and whatnot. I read everything and wish I could engage on so many things. This guy caught my attention, if only because it was the last one.
I've been doing mirror event on 1 character and that's it.
Don't go after contraband, don't convert anything, don't sell anything on exchange, don't play queues and am not in-game minus those 10 minutes for mirror.
If that was their objective, mission accomplished - you got me...
Once mirror is done I could see myself doing some kind of daily for a t6 christmas ship, if not have no reason to play.
I see more players listing/leaning into that style of play.
There's just no reason for that. There's enough content here to drive the game, whatever anyones gripes might be.
But it has to work. I mean, really? the PVE ques are still almost completely empty? No one got the message by now on bizarre difficulty levels and pointless optional-fails? Quckbars, mail, exchange, etc.
additionally,
Looking at the exchange interface, man, that has got to be the most primitive thing I've ever seen, there are almost no search options. Has it been updated like ever? Can't limit price, side (kdf/fed), etc. Some of those things would actually REDUCE database and server load.
But it has to work. I mean, really? the PVE ques are still almost completely empty? No one got the message by now on bizarre difficulty levels and pointless optional-fails? Quckbars, mail, exchange, etc.
They don't make money off people playing the queues, so their concern for whether or not people are is zero. Their idea about whether the game is successful or not, starts and ends with how much zen they sell. Literally nothing else whatsoever about the game actually matters to them as to whether it's successful or not, or functional or not.
The T5 Defiant and Gal-X are understandable (canon considerations), but why the hell do Starfleet ships (The T6 Intel ships) have cloaking devices? I mean, what the heck? Were there no KDF players upset by this? Why aren't the forums burning down from the fact that they basically eliminated any differences between the factions at the cap?
Of course there are. But what is the point of expressing disappointment? The KDF players have been marginalized by the Devs as constant complainers that can't be satisfied, so why try.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
. You want Carrier/Fighter go play a game based on Star Wars. Or Battlestar Galactica. Or Babylon 5.. Or really any other Sci-Fi IP because it's a ridiculously freaking over-used trope.
Is there a good Battlestar game?
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Once upon a time Battlestar Galactica had a BIG chance of being an Awesome game, but that boat has long since sailed away.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
The T5 Defiant and Gal-X are understandable (canon considerations), but why the hell do Starfleet ships (The T6 Intel ships) have cloaking devices? I mean, what the heck? Were there no KDF players upset by this? Why aren't the forums burning down from the fact that they basically eliminated any differences between the factions at the cap?
The Defiant having a cloaking mechanism came about as a collaboration between the Romulan Empire and Starfleet. Moving forward to STO, before even exploring the Delta Quadrant, we already uncover all the plans that the Undine and Iconians have brought about to cause the major powers of the Alpha Quadrant to be at odds. As of Surface Tension, said odds have since been resolved. It's not an illogical conclusion that the Starfleet Intelligence ships which can cloak are just the result of yet another collaboration, this time among the three factions.
I have smelled the stink of death upon this universe since DR arrived. It came with two terrible insults: First, the devs calling us exploiters for using content they left in place. Second, the obscene upgrade system designed to drain all our resources and willpower. At each turn, it feels like the people running this game are telling us to f**k off.
I've caught a whiff myself on more than one occasion since D.R. went live.
. The "exploiter" hullabaloo.
(all just to slow down progression)
. And now the whole account "probation" brouhaha ... :mad:
.The Upgrade system, that's just highway robbery in my opinion.
. The T6 ships vs the T5U ships controversy, It's just getting to be too much.
If anyone of these things had happened over time, well things would have fared a bit better., (but not much...:P)
But all at once, well that's just too big a dump to take on the player base at once. I apologize for the graphic description, but that's how I really feel.
The T5 Defiant and Gal-X are understandable (canon considerations), but why the hell do Starfleet ships (The T6 Intel ships) have cloaking devices? I mean, what the heck? Were there no KDF players upset by this? Why aren't the forums burning down from the fact that they basically eliminated any differences between the factions at the cap?
If it helps , the many a display of intelligence ships in the Mirror event shows that Feds still don't have a clue how to fly a ship with cloak ... , even after they had a year and a half to practice as Fromulans ... .
I mean, really? the PVE ques are still almost completely empty? No one got the message by now on bizarre difficulty levels and pointless optional-fails? Quckbars, mail, exchange, etc.
If it helps , they had meetings .
They discussed hings .
And then ... in a true Kodak Moment , they trotted out 3 Devs to make posts about stuff ... in the hopes to calm us and change our minds about The Greatest Expansion Ever !
I hope someone took a screencap of the 3 Devpost's ... , so that future generations may see that miracles do happen ... , even if it was a fake miracle that had the true believers once again express their wish to see this as a turning point for better communication with the Devs .
... to me it sadly looked like some organized parade from the Soviet Block era , or modern Iran ...
They don't make money off people playing the queues, so their concern for whether or not people are is zero. Their idea about whether the game is successful or not, starts and ends with how much zen they sell. Literally nothing else whatsoever about the game actually matters to them as to whether it's successful or not, or functional or not.
I can assure you that in my case they made a considerable amount of money out of someone running the queues for almost 3 years. And I bet Im not the only one. Reason is that this is the testing ground, the playing basis, for all your purchased cuties and supposed to be recreational fun.
The queues were or are basically the only thing left to do for anybody who has reached endgame and wants to do some simple PvE with likeminded after boring grinding and farming.
If that remains gone the reason to buy anything is gone as well.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
They don't make money off people playing the queues, so their concern for whether or not people are is zero. Their idea about whether the game is successful or not, starts and ends with how much zen they sell. Literally nothing else whatsoever about the game actually matters to them as to whether it's successful or not, or functional or not.
Yeah, the overly narrow focus on monitization features is what got them here. Attacking players in exploit-gate didn't help. Neither did zero loot-drop after MK12, I mean come on, there could have been at least greens. If only to give the exchange guys more fodder.
The life of a MMO world is about diversity in the playerbase. People who like to use the exchange all day? great! People who like to carefully tailor their bridge officers and vamp around with them? awesome! The guys who love ker'rat in eta eridani? fantiastic! Questers, and doffers, and explorers, and episode junkies, and more. All are important. Because with all those people, you have life in the game.
A one-trick pony doesn't have a very long career. And nonstop gear upgrade is not even a good trick.
I can assure you that in my case they made a considerable amount of money out of someone running the queues for almost 3 years. And I bet Im not the only one. Reason is that this is the testing ground, the playing basis, for all your purchased cuties and supposed to be recreational fun.
The queues were or are basically the only thing left to do for anybody who has reached endgame and wants to do some simple PvE with likeminded after boring grinding and farming.
If that remains gone the reason to buy anything is gone as well.
And the ques. This guy put it well. I think those are beyond important, beyond making new chars and one or two other things ... this is the endgame! It is true that the pve ques were too easy. They needed to be adjusted, beyond just increasing mob level. Clearly. But to make changes that vaporize your "endgame" overnight, that's downright suicidal, from a business perspective.
The good news? They are kind of cool. But no matter how cool they are, if they continue to funnel the whole playerbase through 1-3 pve ques nonstop is crazy. I swear, if I have to do that mirror invasion que one more time I'll puke. I got my last token and I was like "never freaking again". That's not the way to do it guys.
You could at least have a featured daily pve que, with bonus rewards. How hard would that be? It would even allow you to massage difficulty on a case by case basis.
I can assure you that in my case they made a considerable amount of money out of someone running the queues for almost 3 years. And I bet Im not the only one. Reason is that this is the testing ground, the playing basis, for all your purchased cuties and supposed to be recreational fun.
The queues were or are basically the only thing left to do for anybody who has reached endgame and wants to do some simple PvE with likeminded after boring grinding and farming.
If that remains gone the reason to buy anything is gone as well.
Okay, I can see how what I wrote could be misinterpreted. Sorry about that. What I meant to say was that they don't make money off the act of people playing the queues. They don't make money off the queues themselves. My point was that it doesn't actually matter if the queues or anything else work or are fun, or are being used, so long as the zen purchase option on the website does. Everything else exists exclusively as a funnel to push people towards that cash purchase. Nothing else matters, least of all bugs that don't affect making people spend money.
The fact that certain bugs continue to persist is testament to this fact. The fact that certain design trends persist is testament to this fact. They continue to run the game the way they do, because they're making a profit on it. It's as simple as that. The moment something goes so completely wrong that it affects people making those purchases, it will get fixed, and if the past is any indicator, never sooner. After all, how long did it take them to jump on people speeding through the game, and therefore being less inclined to buy things to accelerate the process? At the same time, how long has it taken them to address the crippling power tray loudout bug? Hint on that last one: years, actually. It's been a known issue for years.
Yeah, the overly narrow focus on monitization features is what got them here. Attacking players in exploit-gate didn't help. Neither did zero loot-drop after MK12, I mean come on, there could have been at least greens. If only to give the exchange guys more fodder.
The life of a MMO world is about diversity in the playerbase. People who like to use the exchange all day? great! People who like to carefully tailor their bridge officers and vamp around with them? awesome! The guys who love ker'rat in eta eridani? fantiastic! Questers, and doffers, and explorers, and episode junkies, and more. All are important. Because with all those people, you have life in the game.
A one-trick pony doesn't have a very long career. And nonstop gear upgrade is not even a good trick.
The thing about it all, though, is that they keep doing the exact same things because they're profiting from it. People talk about devs training their players, but the reverse is also true. They keep doing this abusive nonsense because they playerbase has overwhelming stated that they will happily accept it and continue to pour money into it. For any game, those who use the forums are firstly a tiny minority of the players, and secondly almost always the pissed off players. People don't get on forums as a general rule because they're happy, they get on to complain. So the forum provides a warped perception of what is happening. Cryptic's behavior provides a far more clear picture.
Cryptic doesn't want to cater to a variety of players, because then they have to put in that much more effort for the same number of people. Catering to three different playstyles? Well, now you have to create/balance three times as much content, with the same number of paying customers. So if you force everyone to do the same thing, you make design cheaper and easier and again, still have the same number of paying customers. Fun isn't a factor here.
And the ques. This guy put it well. I think those are beyond important, beyond making new chars and one or two other things ... this is the endgame! It is true that the pve ques were too easy. They needed to be adjusted, beyond just increasing mob level. Clearly. But to make changes that vaporize your "endgame" overnight, that's downright suicidal, from a business perspective.
The good news? They are kind of cool. But no matter how cool they are, if they continue to funnel the whole playerbase through 1-3 pve ques nonstop is crazy. I swear, if I have to do that mirror invasion que one more time I'll puke. I got my last token and I was like "never freaking again". That's not the way to do it guys.
Forcing people into a small number of queues allows you to know exactly what players are/are not going to be playing, and again allows you to produce far less content while still retaining the same amount of time it takes to get things done. Clearly players like it just fine, because they're still playing it. Behavior like this is why people say monopolies are a bad thing, they lead to attitudes like what we see from Cryptic, with open contempt for their own players simply because they can and it's easier.
You could at least have a featured daily pve que, with bonus rewards. How hard would that be? It would even allow you to massage difficulty on a case by case basis.
Bonus rewards? That would speed people through content faster without requiring them to pay for it. As such, no, this is a terrible idea, at least from Cryptic's viewpoint.
Comments
nah the other guy is right that more often than not the customer has no clue what the hell s/he's talking about in what they want. this is mostly because the customer only wants the end result, without giving half a thought to the feasibility of attaining said end result or the cost needed to attain said end result. and really, why would they know or care? their mentality is "i'm the one throwing money at you, make it happen!"
then the xp gains . i dont mind the money stuff too much because as a KDF player they really dont even have much they are trying to sell me . what 2 ships for DR nothing else .
but if we disgruntled players who don't like the dil money grab all and i mean all of us just wernt and started playing on tribble dil is free there LOL it really wouldnt cost us anything. then when they caught on to it and made tribble sub only then we decide if its worth paying for or not. if so we pay if not we leave . its the only solution i can see working because they are not going to change the core of the game as it fits the model they want.
Don't go after contraband, don't convert anything, don't sell anything on exchange, don't play queues and am not in-game minus those 10 minutes for mirror.
If that was their objective, mission accomplished - you got me...
Once mirror is done I could see myself doing some kind of daily for a t6 christmas ship, if not have no reason to play.
I don't think the game is any danger or anything though - like we talked about a million times they are enough star trek fan whales to carry it no matter what.
Aslong as it's f2p there will be enough people to come queue up with the whales unlike the sub model.
However that doesn't exclude the developers being told exactly where their product is currently at
No - loadouts don't fix it, so don't go there. (and why were my ground doffs fine? weird)
And let me tell you - that's important. I need to feel a little confidence to shell out $$ for this thing.
Thank you guys for posting here, experiences and whatnot. I read everything and wish I could engage on so many things. This guy caught my attention, if only because it was the last one.
I see more players listing/leaning into that style of play.
There's just no reason for that. There's enough content here to drive the game, whatever anyones gripes might be.
But it has to work. I mean, really? the PVE ques are still almost completely empty? No one got the message by now on bizarre difficulty levels and pointless optional-fails? Quckbars, mail, exchange, etc.
additionally,
Looking at the exchange interface, man, that has got to be the most primitive thing I've ever seen, there are almost no search options. Has it been updated like ever? Can't limit price, side (kdf/fed), etc. Some of those things would actually REDUCE database and server load.
They don't make money off people playing the queues, so their concern for whether or not people are is zero. Their idea about whether the game is successful or not, starts and ends with how much zen they sell. Literally nothing else whatsoever about the game actually matters to them as to whether it's successful or not, or functional or not.
Of course there are. But what is the point of expressing disappointment? The KDF players have been marginalized by the Devs as constant complainers that can't be satisfied, so why try.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Is there a good Battlestar game?
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Once upon a time Battlestar Galactica had a BIG chance of being an Awesome game, but that boat has long since sailed away.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The Defiant having a cloaking mechanism came about as a collaboration between the Romulan Empire and Starfleet. Moving forward to STO, before even exploring the Delta Quadrant, we already uncover all the plans that the Undine and Iconians have brought about to cause the major powers of the Alpha Quadrant to be at odds. As of Surface Tension, said odds have since been resolved. It's not an illogical conclusion that the Starfleet Intelligence ships which can cloak are just the result of yet another collaboration, this time among the three factions.
I've caught a whiff myself on more than one occasion since D.R. went live.
. The "exploiter" hullabaloo.
(all just to slow down progression)
. And now the whole account "probation" brouhaha ... :mad:
.The Upgrade system, that's just highway robbery in my opinion.
. The T6 ships vs the T5U ships controversy, It's just getting to be too much.
If anyone of these things had happened over time, well things would have fared a bit better., (but not much...:P)
But all at once, well that's just too big a dump to take on the player base at once. I apologize for the graphic description, but that's how I really feel.
If it helps , the many a display of intelligence ships in the Mirror event shows that Feds still don't have a clue how to fly a ship with cloak ... , even after they had a year and a half to practice as Fromulans ... .
If it helps , they had meetings .
They discussed hings .
And then ... in a true Kodak Moment , they trotted out 3 Devs to make posts about stuff ... in the hopes to calm us and change our minds about The Greatest Expansion Ever !
I hope someone took a screencap of the 3 Devpost's ... , so that future generations may see that miracles do happen ... , even if it was a fake miracle that had the true believers once again express their wish to see this as a turning point for better communication with the Devs .
... to me it sadly looked like some organized parade from the Soviet Block era , or modern Iran ...
I can assure you that in my case they made a considerable amount of money out of someone running the queues for almost 3 years. And I bet Im not the only one. Reason is that this is the testing ground, the playing basis, for all your purchased cuties and supposed to be recreational fun.
The queues were or are basically the only thing left to do for anybody who has reached endgame and wants to do some simple PvE with likeminded after boring grinding and farming.
If that remains gone the reason to buy anything is gone as well.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah, the overly narrow focus on monitization features is what got them here. Attacking players in exploit-gate didn't help. Neither did zero loot-drop after MK12, I mean come on, there could have been at least greens. If only to give the exchange guys more fodder.
The life of a MMO world is about diversity in the playerbase. People who like to use the exchange all day? great! People who like to carefully tailor their bridge officers and vamp around with them? awesome! The guys who love ker'rat in eta eridani? fantiastic! Questers, and doffers, and explorers, and episode junkies, and more. All are important. Because with all those people, you have life in the game.
A one-trick pony doesn't have a very long career. And nonstop gear upgrade is not even a good trick.
And the ques. This guy put it well. I think those are beyond important, beyond making new chars and one or two other things ... this is the endgame! It is true that the pve ques were too easy. They needed to be adjusted, beyond just increasing mob level. Clearly. But to make changes that vaporize your "endgame" overnight, that's downright suicidal, from a business perspective.
The good news? They are kind of cool. But no matter how cool they are, if they continue to funnel the whole playerbase through 1-3 pve ques nonstop is crazy. I swear, if I have to do that mirror invasion que one more time I'll puke. I got my last token and I was like "never freaking again". That's not the way to do it guys.
You could at least have a featured daily pve que, with bonus rewards. How hard would that be? It would even allow you to massage difficulty on a case by case basis.
Okay, I can see how what I wrote could be misinterpreted. Sorry about that. What I meant to say was that they don't make money off the act of people playing the queues. They don't make money off the queues themselves. My point was that it doesn't actually matter if the queues or anything else work or are fun, or are being used, so long as the zen purchase option on the website does. Everything else exists exclusively as a funnel to push people towards that cash purchase. Nothing else matters, least of all bugs that don't affect making people spend money.
The fact that certain bugs continue to persist is testament to this fact. The fact that certain design trends persist is testament to this fact. They continue to run the game the way they do, because they're making a profit on it. It's as simple as that. The moment something goes so completely wrong that it affects people making those purchases, it will get fixed, and if the past is any indicator, never sooner. After all, how long did it take them to jump on people speeding through the game, and therefore being less inclined to buy things to accelerate the process? At the same time, how long has it taken them to address the crippling power tray loudout bug? Hint on that last one: years, actually. It's been a known issue for years.
The thing about it all, though, is that they keep doing the exact same things because they're profiting from it. People talk about devs training their players, but the reverse is also true. They keep doing this abusive nonsense because they playerbase has overwhelming stated that they will happily accept it and continue to pour money into it. For any game, those who use the forums are firstly a tiny minority of the players, and secondly almost always the pissed off players. People don't get on forums as a general rule because they're happy, they get on to complain. So the forum provides a warped perception of what is happening. Cryptic's behavior provides a far more clear picture.
Cryptic doesn't want to cater to a variety of players, because then they have to put in that much more effort for the same number of people. Catering to three different playstyles? Well, now you have to create/balance three times as much content, with the same number of paying customers. So if you force everyone to do the same thing, you make design cheaper and easier and again, still have the same number of paying customers. Fun isn't a factor here.
Forcing people into a small number of queues allows you to know exactly what players are/are not going to be playing, and again allows you to produce far less content while still retaining the same amount of time it takes to get things done. Clearly players like it just fine, because they're still playing it. Behavior like this is why people say monopolies are a bad thing, they lead to attitudes like what we see from Cryptic, with open contempt for their own players simply because they can and it's easier.
Bonus rewards? That would speed people through content faster without requiring them to pay for it. As such, no, this is a terrible idea, at least from Cryptic's viewpoint.
I didn't see anything in this video about the current state of the game, I saw nothing but stuff about the current state of PVP and that's about it?