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"Why Scimitar is OP"

scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
Sooo I saw a lot of ppl complaining the Scimitar is OP so I decided to make this threat and tell ppl why


first fact is that the Scimitar is in fact very strong due to its 5/3 weapons + hanger

also a fact that to do tons of dmg 70% is PILOTING
basicly HOW you fly/handle your ship and the scimi is a brick in space
thats where most ppl fail and barely get 10K out of it from what I see among pugs since DR


Soooo directed to all those ppl calling the SHIP OP or anything OP
think about it

it's balanced throu the hard piloting
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by scrooge69 on
«13

Comments

  • potencethe1stpotencethe1st Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Arrays.

    Solved.

    The ship doesnt even factor its hangar into its item budget. Possibly more.

    And really? This again?

    A rather large amount of top parses in league: scimis and carriers. The data itself points to piloting being less of a factor and layout/gear/ship being much, much much more of a factor.

    The data doesnt lie but egos do.
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Heh. Haha. Ahahahahaha. Thanks for the laugh. That was appreciated. Now then, WTF are you talking about? 70% piloting? If piloting skill means parking yourself in rnag of multiple targets and tapping buttons, then yes, you're absolutely right. But that's mostly what I see. Park and turret. That's it. That's not skill, that's all on the ship. Its OP because of its crew (because romulans get some very powerful abilities) and because of all its available consoles and gear. NOT because the pilot is just that good. Get that noise out of here.
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    what can YOU get out of ships?

    due to your comments you are among those bad pilots I was talking about
    bad pilots who event cant see WAHT piloting is

    well and im not going to tell ya :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Part of me wants to stick it to Scim pilots, cuz they're nerfing my Aquatic Carrier. :D

    But nah, this topic is too downtrodden and boring to go over yet again. Scims are fine 'as is,' honestly.

    Besides, Scim pilots are getting the same nerf along with me already. And last thing this game needs is yet more nerfing.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • potencethe1stpotencethe1st Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The data doesnt lie, honestly. Kira check out all the top parses - scimi's and carriers rockin FAW.

    The OP is bonkers if he thinks skill plays a huge role into it more than just organization, build, and execution.

    Wanna know what takes skill? Breaking 40k in a phantom using surgical strikes single target and having to exploit flanking to reach less than half what other can do by parking and turreting. But sure, its "fine as is".

    Skill my #$&.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Your are correct. The Scimi is a ship „to get used to” due to piloting (player skill/experience). There is also a more or less “weak” hull to consider for a ship that turns more like a cruiser than an escort. However wide arc weapons makes it all a bit less tricky.

    Nevertheless as far as the “OP” topic is concerned you should ad 5 tac console slots as well as a commander tac boff station to your:
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    .. is in fact very strong due to its 5/3 weapons + hanger

    This makes the Scimitar unique in it offensive capabilities compared to what I see elsewhere in STO. The universal slots also give the options for many different play styles.

    As summery the Scimi doesn’t fly by itself yes but it still remains the top DPS craft in STO I know because of its stand alone features. I fly it on one toon out of eight because other ships are more fun all in all and bore me less.
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  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If its all about the piloting, then why does ship choice matter so much?

    Its not powerful because of any one feature, but that it has so many complimentary features all in a single platform. The layout AND the consoles AND the Rom boffs AND the hangar AND a near-perfect boff layout etc etc. But you already know this, how that stack of complementary features makes it superior to everything else, so why even ask the question?
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    People get the wrong idea about the Scimitar.

    They think that the ship is just incredibly OP and all they have to do is buy one and they will be unstoppable. If you're one of these people, then by all means try it.

    Most people though quickly learn that the Scimitar is just like every single other ship in STO. If you don't set it up right and fly it correctly it's no better or worse then anything else. You will see 2 types of players in Scimitars, those that help your team by blowing up bad guys right and left, and those that are always dead. The latter are people that just buy the ship, slap some gear on it and expect to win.

    When I first got my Scimitar, I didn't do any better in it then I did in other ships. After I learned it's strengths and weaknesses and learned how to balance Survivability with damage (I don't do Glass Cannon) my success rate went up 20 fold.

    The Scimitar is a great ship, but don't think that just flying one makes you powerful because it doesn't. The thought that it's a 'Pay to Win' ship is laughable at best.
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,744 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The scimitar is op for a combination of reasons.

    It has the 5/3 weapon set up
    5 tac consoles
    A hangar with good hangar pets
    And a very favourable boff layout

    All of these on their own are good. All of them together make for a crazy ship.

    I disagree with the 70% piloting. It's more about gear and build. As long as you have that and are not a terribad pilot you can easily do very well in this ship.
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  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The scimitar is OP because it was OP in the Nemesis :P
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  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    If its all about the piloting, then why does ship choice matter so much?

    I think it's funny that you say that.

    There are two things that determine DPS really, build and efficiency.

    Build is most of it.

    Efficiency is where "piloting" comes in.

    Considering the maximum falloff of beams is 65% damage; as long as you were on Red Alert, firing all of your weapons at your enemies, this is the absolute worst you could do.

    The lowest red alert/green alert ratio I have ever seen is 80% in ISE.

    If you combine the worst pilot with the worst tactics, you would see at most 52% damage.

    The difference between the worst pilot I have ever seen and a 100% efficient DPS god pilot in the same ship/same build is the difference between 7.5k DPS and 15k DPS.

    Piloting/Pressing the right buttons should be rather easy by endgame. The theory crafting, implementation, and build (a.k.a. the mathematics behind the build) are the most important aspects.

    Piloting isn't everything, but it does impact your performance if you cannot drive the ship to save your life.
  • ermanameermaname Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    All I can go on is evidence from my fleet and personal experience.

    So a person has a high end ship (lobi, some lockbox, some zen or fleet ships) with all endgame gear, full reps, all the right boffs on their main fed character.
    They make a new rom character and buy a scimi at 50, equip it with just found items common-uncommon setups, with no rep.
    The roms dps is 5-10k more than their main fed, they switch between the 2 and this stays the same, the gap increasing on the rom as they get reps and endgame gear.

    How is this skill? Are they piloting better on the rom due to some tal shiar mind bending hypnotism built into the ship? Or is it just that the scimi IS MORE POWERFUL?

    8 weapons and a hangar is bad enough, having 1 of the best hangar pets in game is making it worse, having tac commander and 5 tac consoles? Bah, skill, :D
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ermaname wrote: »
    All I can go on is evidence from my fleet and personal experience.

    So a person has a high end ship (lobi, some lockbox, some zen or fleet ships) with all endgame gear, full reps, all the right boffs on their main fed character.
    They make a new rom character and buy a scimi at 50, equip it with just found items common-uncommon setups, with no rep.
    The roms dps is 5-10k more than their main fed, they switch between the 2 and this stays the same, the gap increasing on the rom as they get reps and endgame gear.

    How is this skill? Are they piloting better on the rom due to some tal shiar mind bending hypnotism built into the ship? Or is it just that the scimi IS MORE POWERFUL?

    8 weapons and a hangar is bad enough, having 1 of the best hangar pets in game is making it worse, having tac commander and 5 tac consoles? Bah, skill, :D

    In most high DPS runs, some scimmy pilots forget to deploy their pets and still get 70k. The Scimitar has been the "Fat Momma" of DPS ever since LOR.

    It pays for its effectiveness by being an unwieldy fat cow IMO.
  • ermanameermaname Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    I should clarify, though I think it ridiculous that romulans are naturally more powerful than any other race and that this was wholly a sales ploy, nothing more, the reason I posted at all here was the OPs implying that it is almost all down to skill that makes it this way, when it is blatantly the cushiest build setup in game, no other ship has such a good weapon/hangar/console/boff layout, ignoring the roms inherent abilities and 'free' boff skills.
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    ermaname wrote: »
    I should clarify, though I think it ridiculous that romulans are naturally more powerful than any other race and that this was wholly a sales ploy, nothing more, the reason I posted at all here was the OPs implying that it is almost all down to skill that makes it this way, when it is blatantly the cushiest build setup in game, no other ship has such a good weapon/hangar/console/boff layout, ignoring the roms inherent abilities and 'free' boff skills.

    Of course it's incredible! It's mostly cause of the Romulan race though.

    Romulans are the DPS overlords; you might as well bow to them now, because a Fed can't hope to even be half as effective as a Romulan.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The scimitar is OP because it was OP in the Nemesis :P

    Not really.

    Picard simply did some BFAW3 and finished the Scimitar off with a DOFF'ed Ramming Speed 3.

    Also, Shinzon equipped the Scimitar with Single Cannons. Shinzon was a noob.
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  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Not really.

    Picard simply did some BFAW3 and finished the Scimitar off with a DOFF'ed Ramming Speed 3.

    Also, Shinzon equipped the Scimitar with Single Cannons. Shinzon was a noob.

    Plus Shinzon used the Scimitar 3pc set!

    Think of all the other consoles he could have used! :D
  • ermanameermaname Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Of course it's incredible! It's mostly cause of the Romulan race though.

    Romulans are the DPS overlords; you might as well bow to them now, because a Fed can't hope to even be half as effective as a Romulan.

    I know, I made a rom just to see how OP they were and was like 'wtf?' :confused:

    I max repped and leveled it, then abandoned it in it's OP scimi with it's prior to DR endgame setup :D I'll go back to it when I get bored of/finish endgame kitting out my main with epic mk xivs and ship traits.

    I don't mind not being top in game, if I can achieve what I want (FUN!) and complete content I'm happy. It's more Star Treky IMO to be an 'underdog' and win anyway.
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    what can YOU get out of ships?

    due to your comments you are among those bad pilots I was talking about
    bad pilots who event cant see WAHT piloting is

    well and im not going to tell ya :P

    No actually he is right its not all piloting...the ship is very flexible.


    1) Scims are flown by Roms and Remans who have easy access to SRO. My Romulans crit and severity is 17-22% and 105-120% depending on what gear i have on. Five SRO gives you 10% crit and 25% severity. Or since most people run with 1 Reman and 4 SRO thats 8% crit and 20% severity. My Fed tac has 4% crit and 60% severity. With a bunch of boffs that have useless or no space abilities.

    2) Reman players plus a Reman boff with superior infiltrator gives around 20-24 seconds of ambush bonus coming out of stealth. Thats just what i hear from other players. I dont play Remans due to the Orc/Tauren/Troll effect. So i only run blood elves...sorry i mean romulan captains with a reman boff which gives me just a 15 second ambush bonus.

    3) Boff layout: it has a Cdr Tac seat and a LCdr universal. How many ships out there have a Cdr Tac and LCdr universal? the ship has a lot of versatility. I used to run a cheese build on mine aka A2B. My only tac boff abilities were TT2, BFAW3 and APO3. I didnt even bother using my ability in the ensign slot. Other people run a science boff in that LCdr universal which means you have a Scim that can use Grav Well. Or if they dont want to run an A2B they can put a LCdr Tac in the univeral and run an old school double up setup. The only downside to that is while your tac abilities are still on the lowest CD possible your eng and sci abilities are not.

    4) 5/3 layout which allows people to run a front heavy cannon or DBB setup. OR a full beam array setup just like a cruiser.

    5) 5 tac consoles...nuf said

    6) hangar bay and romulan drone ships...nuf said

    7) singularity powers...nuf said
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    HAHA sing powers.....

    if I activate the weapon power thing my DMG is goingDOWN

    only usefull thing is the quantum absorbation to keep you from dien but still it lwoers your dmg
    cus u loose a lot of power


    well ok 5 tac pconsoles I forgot
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • darthraiderxxxdarthraiderxxx Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    nikephorus wrote: »
    The scimitar is op for a combination of reasons.

    It has the 5/3 weapon set up
    5 tac consoles
    A hangar with good hangar pets
    And a very favourable boff layout

    All of these on their own are good. All of them together make for a crazy ship.

    I disagree with the 70% piloting. It's more about gear and build. As long as you have that and are not a terribad pilot you can easily do very well in this ship.

    Add to that that Romulans have access to by far the best space trait with Romulan operative both for their captain and boffs (and yes i know that other players can get Romulan boffs at the embassy). It's the combination of a ship with the most potential firepower and a space trait that is far superior to other space traits. The weakness of the Scim is obviously it's lack of defense. But since most enemies we face in PvE don't have a lot of firepower, the weakness does barely matter. It is less that the Scim is OP and more a lack of balance in PvE. If PvE enemies would do more damage, Scim captains would see the respawn button a lot more or at least would have to give up some firepower for defense.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Piloting isn't everything, but it does impact your performance if you cannot drive the ship to save your life.

    Of course piloting matters, but if that was all to it, why don't we see people in Phantoms, Defiants, Patrol Escorts, Raptors or, for the sake of it, Sovereigns get similar results?

    People that want to be the best don't just learn to pilot well - they also take the best tools.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jaymclaughlinjaymclaughlin Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Plus Shinzon used the Scimitar 3pc set!

    Think of all the other consoles he could have used! :D


    Exactly! If he knew what he was doing, Picard would have beaten him!

    For a start he didn't have any Romulan boffs



    Having said that, people ******** about the weapon layout... if it was truly canon it would have...
    52 disruptor banks and 27 photon torpedo bays; it was thus ready for nearly any battle, carrying roughly five times the armament of any other single ship. The Scimitar also held several Scorpion-class attack fighters.

    and as for defense...
    The Scimitar had primary and secondary regenerative shields. This allowed for twice the protection, giving it a backup shield. Even against the USS Enterprise-E and two Romulan Valdore-type Warbirds, the Scimitar still had the obvious advantage.

    Taken from http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Scimitar

    So basically, if people want the game to have any kind of canon basis, the Scimitar should be OP, and easily the most powerful ship in the game, and only be beatable by using unorthodox tactics
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  • prierinprierin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The Scim is my favorite Rom ship, hands down. That being said, I don't have a Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer to compare it to.

    But it turns like a tank - which it should. It has a 3/4 of a mile wingspan.

    Three quarters of a MILE. She is not a small ship.

    Those who sit and turret are not utilizing the ship's full capabilities and, personally, I find that insulting. I could certainly learn to master mine better but all in all, she's a great ship and does exactly what a dreadnaught should do: inspire awe, follow up with pure terror.

    OP? Hardly. But on that note, shouldn't different faction ships have slightly different or moire powerful ships than their counterparts? The Klingons should have a pretty badass yacht o death considering their background... the Romulans can go either way - small and sneaky or huge and overpowering. The Feds have their own dreadnaughts but focus more, I'd dare to say, on the science of the ship over the muscle of it all.

    For those demanding "balance" consider this: if every escort was just an escort, every cruiser a cruiser, etc. regardless of faction, what would be the point? I don't want cookie-cutter ships... do you?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    scrooge69 wrote: »
    HAHA sing powers.....

    if I activate the weapon power thing my DMG is goingDOWN

    only usefull thing is the quantum absorbation to keep you from dien but still it lwoers your dmg
    cus u loose a lot of power

    Using Singularity Overcharge does lock you out of crf/crv/bo/bfaw so using it to get a 20% severity bonus from an OLoad core while those cannon/beam powers are off CD might be a dps loss.

    BUT

    What exactly do you mean by using Quantum Absorption lowers your damage cause you lose a lot of power? This is only true if you are using Fleet Cores which boost powers in subsystems based on your singularity charge level. And those cores only boost power in shields, engines and aux subsystems so the cores dont directly boost weapon power or damage. That is of course unless you use an AMP core and rely on singularity charges to get your power levels up above 75 in shields engines and aux to get the AMP buff.

    You know if you are going to try to educate us you really shouldnt be so vague. Like if you are going to tell us why the Scimitar is Gods chariot or you are going to "haha sing powers" and try to say that using them is a bad idea but not exactly how or why.
  • nagyervinnagyervin Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The scimitar is OP because it was OP in the Nemesis :P

    This. ^^^

    Let it stay that way. I always like when see a scimi in a STF. Nowadays it's a guarantee, that STF will not fail :)
    Your Plasma Torpedo - Heavy III deals 174321 (66343) Kinetic Damage(Critical) to I.R.W. Valdore. :o
  • scrooge69scrooge69 Member Posts: 1,108 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    stonewbie wrote: »

    What exactly do you mean by using Quantum Absorption lowers your damage cause you lose a lot of power? This is only true if you are using Fleet Cores which boost powers in subsystems based on your singularity charge level. And those cores only boost power in shields, engines and aux subsystems so the cores dont directly boost weapon power or damage. That is of course unless you use an AMP core and rely on singularity charges to get your power levels up above 75 in shields engines and aux to get the AMP buff.

    You know if you are going to try to educate us you really shouldnt be so vague. Like if you are going to tell us why the Scimitar is Gods chariot or you are going to "haha sing powers" and try to say that using them is a bad idea but not exactly how or why.

    ok ok I didnt explain it I thought its common knowledge but youre right it is not

    my point was that sing powers dont make the scimi better actually I
    think a fed fleet core would be better
    nagyervin wrote: »

    Let it stay that way. I always like when see a scimi in a STF. Nowadays it's a guarantee, that STF will not fail :)

    having a scimi on teram = guarantee that STF wont fail???
    SRSLY?
    I see so many scimis on pugs under even 10K dps... and THOSE shall guarantee victory?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    The scimitar is OP because it was OP in the Nemesis :P

    If even OP, the Scimitar is OP because Donatra is OP. :) (Khitomer Vortex)
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  • shandypandyshandypandy Member Posts: 632 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    Scimitar is OP because of Recluse with Elite Mesh Weaver APB3 spam.

    So, it's not really OP.
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  • talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited November 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I don't agree. Plenty of fail builds out there, and even more players who think that buying a Scimitard = instant OP. And then do their best damage by exploding at the enemy.

    Heck, I'd played numerous instances of the OLD Infected Elite where a Scimitar had to be carried by the team due to player making it too squishy in a failed effort to make it OP or overly tanky at the expense of DPS. Though I will hesitantly admit, I did take a small degree of guilty pleasure in my perky little Fleet Rhode Island throwing heals at those particular Scimitards. :D

    Yeah but no other ship has it's potential. Plain and simple, not even the Avenger. Sorry it's potential is simply off the charts and it needs to be brought back to the herd some.

    Sorry I agree, that OP wagon, it's a VERY easy ship to overpower. HIGHLY easy.
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