test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

"T5U PvP Channel" - PvP meta as it was until S9.5

12357

Comments

  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    wraggo1 wrote: »
    will the new bug ship be allowed? cause its not t6, more like t7

    The people in the other threads incredulous that it will have both intel and command hybrid seats are lying to themselves. The bug ship will be the equivalent of a T7 monster. Add to that the console it has which probably is some invulnerability power when combined with the ones form the other Jem'Hadar ships. To top it off, the trait will be the the wet dream of every vaper in this game.
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lucho80 wrote: »
    The people in the other threads incredulous that it will have both intel and command hybrid seats are lying to themselves. The bug ship will be the equivalent of a T7 monster. Add to that the console it has which probably is some invulnerability power when combined with the ones form the other Jem'Hadar ships. To top it off, the trait will be the the wet dream of every vaper in this game.

    I think i'm starting to be edgy case here lol, I never had the original bug, wells or recluse and people that did and that roflstomped pugs with wells/bugs/recluse teams now crying over t6 bug is what is shocking me(not really).
    But yeah, sci cheese will be sweeter then ever vs few bil EC ships.
  • riccardo171riccardo171 Member Posts: 1,802 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Lol they closed the bug thread, we were right. Cryptic has too many precedents for creating unspeakably powerful stuff, I can't think this thing is going to be even by far acceptable.
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Lol they closed the bug thread, we were right. Cryptic has too many precedents for creating unspeakably powerful stuff, I can't think this thing is going to be even by far acceptable.
    after 3 years i'm still waiting for someone to explain how first bug and temporal ship with TIF , reverse time and recharge-every-skill-on-ship including SNB was acceptable .

    EDIT: looking at the steam charts peak and average numbers in STO in last 2 years.
    1 myth being dismantled there:

    1. Before DR there were more players in STO - wrong

    also in times where there were no events/expansions PvP was best. Probably because people didn't do other stuff and the lag was much, much lower.
  • bobosmrade1bobosmrade1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    after 3 years I'm still waiting for someone to explain how first bug and temporal ship with TIF , reverse time and recharge-every-skill-on-ship including SNB was acceptable .

    T5 Bugs strength over other ships, balance with other ships, and timing of the introduction = T6 strength over other ships, balance with other ships, and timing of the introduction. Before DR every PvP round was JHAS(Contortrix for a short time), Recluse and Wells teams. Now it will be T6 JHAS, and some other T6 equals of Wells and Recluse (maybe even them reintroduced as T6)

    BTW, when will the ship go live so we can really see its stats?
    Cave Troll vs Forum troll
    Know the difference
    It could save your life...
    rushatsi wrote: »
    pvp? whats dat?
    Pervert vs. Pervert!:eek:
  • bwemobwemo Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    after 3 years i'm still waiting for someone to explain how first bug and temporal ship with TIF , reverse time and recharge-every-skill-on-ship including SNB was acceptable .

    Well here ya go for the TIF set.

    TL;DR: Lots of angry pver's, bort making some quotable quotes about balance™, and the only thing that got nerfed was the hilarious autoarming tricobalt mine bomb potential from freeze time two piece, which while hilarious, got old about 6 hrs after it was in every queue pop.
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    bwemo wrote: »
    Well here ya go for the TIF set.

    TL;DR: Lots of angry pver's, bort making some quotable quotes about balance™, and the only thing that got nerfed was the hilarious autoarming tricobalt mine bomb potential from freeze time two piece, which while hilarious, got old about 6 hrs after it was in every queue pop.

    Thanx for this bwemo.
    This is hilarious for completely different reasons namely seeing people that cried how temporal ships+set were game breaking POS there then went on and used it in every pvp match for 2 years.
    they, their mothers, sisters and grandmas. Same fleets that made strategies around having 3 Wells and 2 bugs in a team and bragged with victories with such teams and now come here on occasion to say how "before it was all skill".
    ahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahah

    EDIT from the same thread:
    We've said it before: All powers should have a counter and/or resistance.

    So, look for this to be updated in the future.

    And indeed they did updated it, they even amplified temporal set, and none of "those that left because of ionic and neutronic" and had improved wells with gold RnD consoles cried because of it, only when newbs started killing their win-win combo with neutronics and chain disables on regular basis then they left.
  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    lol,

    before some of you indulge further in historical revisionism,

    show me a TSI/SP/TRH/IC/RE veteran that claimed a bug ship or a TIF'd Wells to be balanced against their contemporary alternative ships.

    For each statement you may find, I could pull 15 counter-statements.

    On the contrary, veteran PvP'ers in those veteran fleets were the most vocal part of the community opposing that sleazy kind of power creep, but their objections were belittled and attacked as self-serving attempts to maintain a status-quo in their favour.

    But at the end one has to go with the times or go the way of the dodo.

    The more power creep got introduced, the more vets left the game, and other players started to occupy that vacuum, until an "anything-goes" mentality became the prevailing mindset. The last remnants of "Clean-playing" mentality in high level PvP became extinct around 2nd quarter / 2nd half of 2014 imo.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ussenterpisezussenterpisez Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ilhansk wrote: »
    lol,

    before some of you indulge further in historical revisionism,

    show me a TSI/SP/TRH/IC/RE veteran that claimed a bug ship or a TIF'd Wells to be balanced against their contemporary alternative ships.

    For each statement you may find, I could pull 15 counter-statements.

    On the contrary, veteran PvP'ers in those veteran fleets were the most vocal part of the community opposing that sleazy kind of power creep, but their objections were belittled and attacked as self-serving attempts to maintain a status-quo in their favour.

    But at the end one has to go with the times or go the way of the dodo.

    The more power creep got introduced, the more vets left the game, and other players started to occupy that vacuum, until an "anything-goes" mentality became the prevailing mindset. The last remnants of "Clean-playing" mentality in high level PvP became extinct around 2nd quarter / 2nd half of 2014 imo.

    This.
    I even remember voting against any universal consoles in one tournament TS meeting, before giving up
    :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    This.
    I even remember voting against any universal consoles in one tournament TS meeting, before giving up
    :D

    Ya, and the usual suspects screaming and accusing that veteran fleets couldn't play with and against consoles.... How dare we ban their 5-men tif wells team from a tournament lol, we should L2P ;)
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    ilhansk wrote: »
    lol,

    before some of you indulge further in historical revisionism,

    show me a TSI/SP/TRH/IC/RE veteran that claimed a bug ship or a TIF'd Wells to be balanced against their contemporary alternative ships.
    Even though you're battling beammedown here I'll repeat myself for the new page.
    sharxtreme wrote:
    This is hilarious for completely different reasons namely seeing people that cried how temporal ships+set were game breaking POS there then went on and used it in every pvp match for 2 years.
    they, their mothers, sisters and grandmas. Same fleets that made strategies around having 3 Wells and 2 bugs in a team and bragged with victories with such teams and now come here on occasion to say how "before it was all skill".

    And your reply to beammedown is exact confirmation of what i said.
    You confirmed your hypocrisy by saying it was overpowered and then you and your veteran fleetmates used it over and over and over and over.

    BTW i don't mind entire PvP meta for 2 years being about having few Wells/bugs in team, I just find it extremely funny that somehow some of you act that you people didn't use it and further more that you left because of OP t6 stuff in DR, when you, me, everybody knows it's all simple and plain BS.(not you personally, you even said that you would be prepared to buy all spec points if the option was available)

    My point? in STO PvP not simply attainable OP stuff was always desirable for majority and it always will be.
    What people said on forums doesn't matter, we all saw what same people were using.
    There were just very few that played PvP by their rules, not by powercreep rules.

    And going against "anything-goes people that stayed in STO while vets left" doesn't depict that hypocrisy any better you know?
    At least lately some people here actively tried to find and expose some broken stuff brought by DR.

    husanak was right though in our conversation few days ago and in link that bwemo linked.
    It was OP and unbalanced. Yet even he used R'mor, because in the end: you can't take it too seriously, right? win is a win is a win?

    Like ferengi would say: It doesn't matter how victory is achieved, superior numbers or superior technology. In the end, any victory is better then any defeat.

    Some will argue on paper with that statement, some on field. But win is a win is a win.
    As long as you have someone to fight. Right?
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    No offense, but you assume to have insight into things where you unfortunately have none.
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    You confirmed your hypocrisy by saying it was overpowered and then you and your veteran fleetmates used it over and over and over and over.

    You are applying a definition of hypocracy that virtually no single PvP'er could possibly dogde, including you.

    Z-Store ships tend to be more powerful than free-of-charge ships, lockbox ships tend to be better than Z-Store ships.

    To extrapolate your logic, everyone who ever flew a JHAS, Xindi, Wells, Recluse, Scimitar, T'Varo, Romulans in general, used consoles like AMS, Theta, Backstep, Fluidic, Neutronics, Intel Powers, certain DOFFs etc... is a hypocrate and shouldn't be allowed to critize power creep?

    No. It is very possible to fly these ships and still be critical about the poor game design choices Cryptic made.

    If I am a hypocrate, then so are you, and almost everybody else for that matter. ;)

    Whenever someone asked me if I find some of the ships I played to be overpowered, my answer was always yes.

    Real hypocracy is when someone uses overpowered stuff but refuses to call it overpowered. And often I've challenged such attitudes, up to a point where I even alienated some former friends.

    If you really want to know: For more than a year I didn't buy a JHAS (although I had the money), because I was doing just fine with a Fleet Patrol; I only bought the Wells about 10 months after it's release because again, I was doing just fine with the free Oddy and later with the Sci Oddy. I refused to play FAW-Setups when they were too strong, because what's the point of wiping entire teams in less than 4 minutes without giving them a chance to fight back. To the dismay of some of my fleeties I refused to bring my T'Varo into premade fights because at that time, with the exception of maybe one other fleet no one else back then had the knowledge nor experience nor skill to prevent me from vaping them over and over again, be it a premade or not. That was before even the term "vaping" got coined, where only a small handful of people knew how to build and fly a vaper, let alone to counter one (nowadays that stuff is common knowledge). I rather flew a regular escort to facilitate more balanced matches.

    If you want a real adult discussion about hypocracy, then first present a 'realistic' definition of that term, and don't forget to apply the same criterias to yourself that you impose onto others.

    At the end, one has to keep it real: It is the game that has changed for the worse. Even the best and most talented players using free-of-charge ships couldn't prevail against mediocre lockbox players. So what were people supposed to do? Either quit, or to accept the changing reality of this game.

    sharxtreme wrote: »
    I just find it extremely funny that somehow some of you act that you people didn't use it and further more that you left because of OP t6 stuff in DR

    I have claimed nothing of sorts.

    The reason I personally don't play is because of the grind and the amount of time it requires. Most veterans however left because of power creep and other poor game design choices Cryptic made over the years.
    sharxtreme wrote: »
    At least lately some people here actively tried to find and expose some broken stuff brought by DR.

    And you think we didn't?!

    The majority of game-breaking bugs and imbalances were being exposed by members of veteran PvP fleets. Some of the worst offendings DR game-breakers were firstly discovered and described by some of the fleets that were still hanging on back then.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • bwemobwemo Member Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Uhhh didn't realize this would start immaturity hour so lets clarify a couple things...



    1. That post is from pre season 6 if memory serves me, a lot of us were a bit more vocal in trying to get things fixed. Most of us hung that towel out to dry ages ago.

    2. Game meta was 100% different back then and TIF vs <s6 meta was a completely different ball game than TIF vs LoR and on meta, and here's why so you can understand why this isnt really a case of hipocracy.

    -Teams, same cooldown. Self Explanatory.
    -No DCE's for doubling up EptX
    -No Doff'd A2D....hell I'm pretty sure A2D was reworked while I was gone, so lets just say no A2D
    -No Superman Doff
    -No straight to hull damage at all really, besides transphasics (burst potential in kills)
    -Extend Shields and TSS were primary level heals. Extends requiring range
    -Subnukes were used offensively to create kills, not defensively to halt power creep'd alphas which dont need nukes to get kills

    3. Game was more populated back then, and seeing teams with full TIF sets using manheim+tipler trico nonsense was literally EVERY SINGLE QUEUE.


    When I came back, everyone was using TIF. I wondered why. Well, the game is faster paced and the movement debuff from TIF is easier to get away from because of that. People got smart and started to notice things like Heavy Grav Beam and PSW can shut TIF off at some point while I quit as well. I assumed these were the main reasons it was "ok" now. So, enough hilarious attempting to scalp people over a 3 year old post. KKthnxchnk.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Hm, I am not sure what's going on, it seems to be that some people have a bone to pick about some silly stuff, maybe hurt feelings from the past?

    Back then, TIF was really bad. Nowadays, who cares about TIF? ;)

    All that I should say, or should be said is, this game was epic and a fun ride, and we should celebrate that.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Honestly, I may be to dumb, but I do not understand what you are trying to say. Your syntax and formatting (errors?) are giving me a headache. Could you do me the favour... and rephrase what you are trying to communicate? :confused:
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Fair enough.
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Bebeğim seni tanıştım, ne zaman
    Bilinmeyen barış vardı
    Seni almak i
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    Bebeğim seni tanıştım, ne zaman
    Bilinmeyen barış vardı
    Seni almak i
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    *grabs phone*

    "I'd like to order a cup of virus. 2 sugar, no milk."


    *hangs up phone, looks silently into your face*


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLv5w8tFOM

    PS: The Bee-Gees are very popular in Turkey. Even their lyrics are available on the internet. :P
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I don't get the relevance of "Islands in the Stream" here.

    I got warned about doing Celine stuff, so I went for Kenny and Dolly. ;)

    It's a wtf-mood shift sort of thing.

    Usually works better when at least one side will /facepalm at what Google Translate did.
    ilhansk wrote: »
    Your... choice of "artists" is most disturbing... ;)

    The playlist I'm listening to on Spotify right now...

    Alchemy; Above & Beyond, Zoe Johnston
    Must Be The Love - Raido Edit; Arty, Nadia Ali, BT
    Get Ready To Bounce (Radio Attack); Brooklyn Bounce
    Hack The Planet (Album Mix); Brooklyn Bounce
    Letting Go; BT, Fractal (USA), Jes
    I Want You (Forever) - Deadmau5 Remix; Carl Cox, Yousef
    Block Rockin' Beats - 2003 Digital Remaster; The Chemical Brothers
    Offshore - Original Mix; Chicane
    We Are Tonight - Walden Radio Edit; Christian Burns, Paul van Dyk, Walden
    Stop & Panic; CIRRUS
    Not In Love; Crystal Castles, Robert Smith
    Jupiter Shift; The Crystal Method
    One More Time; Daft Punk
    Little Wonder - Danny Saber Dance Mix; David Bowie
    Lips Like Sugar; Echo And The Bunnymen
    Connection; Elastica
    Unbelievable - LP - EMF; EMF
    Narcotic Influence II; Empirion
    Insomnia - Monster Mix; Faithless
    Absurd - Whitewash Edit; Fluke
    We Have Explosive; The Future Sound Of London
    Ooh La La - Benny Benassi Remix - Extended; Goldfrapp
    State Of Mind; Goldie
    Inside My Mind (Blue Skies); Groove Armada
    24 Hour Party People; Happy Mondays
    Doll Parts; Hole
    Mad About You; Hooverphonic
    Get High; Josh Abrahams
    A Grand Love Theme; Kid Loco
    Love Like Blood - 2007 Digital Remaster; Killing Joke
    Virus (Pestilence Mix); KMFDM
    ****list; L7 (lol, that will be ****out)
    Original; Leftfield
    Inspection (Check One); Leftfield
    Open Up; Leftfield
    Battle Flag; Lo Fidelity Allstars, Pigeonhed
    Animal Nitrate; The London Suede
    Richest Junkie Still Alive; Machines Of Loving Grace
    Ravers Fantasy; Manian
    Protection - Feat. Tracey Thorn; Massive Attack, Tracey Thorn
    Eurostar; Mekon, Jacques Lu Cont
    Why Does My Heart Feel So Bad?; Moby
    Go; Moby
    Royal Ascot - Mr Benn Remix; Monkey Mafia
    Irish Blood, English Heart; Morrissey
    Toxygene - Ganja Kru Remix; The Orb
    Halcyon And On And On; Orbital
    Wonky - Japanese Popstars Mix; Orbital
    Numb; Portishead
    Firestarter; The Prodigy
    Voodoo People; The Prodigy
    One Love (Edit); The Prodigy
    Wake Up! - Snooze Radio Edit; The Prophet, Brennan Heart
    Pretty In Pink; The Psychedelic Furs
    You Of The Nation - Pulsedriver Radio Mix; Pulsedriver, DJs From Mars
    Creep; Radio Head
    Original Bedroom Rockers; Richard Dorfmeister
    Fire; Scooter
    Polymod - Original Mix; Sebastien Leger
    Half Life; Sneaker Pimps
    Goodbye Girl; Squeeze
    Connected; Stereo MC's
    Nothing Matters; Tricky, Nneka
    Dark & Long (Dark Train); Underworld
    Cowgirl; Underworld
    Papillon - LOUD & Domestic Remix; Union Jack
    Good Grief; Urban Dance Squad
    Chrome; VNV Nation
  • ilhanskilhansk Member Posts: 620 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Your... choice of "artists" is most disturbing... ;)
    Visit the Inner Circle YouTube Channel to watch some STO pew pew PVP action!

  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    hypocrisy
    hɪˈpɒkrɪsi/
    noun
    the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.


    and lookie here
    ilhansk wrote:
    If you really want to know: For more than a year I didn't buy a JHAS (although I had the money), because I was doing just fine with a Fleet Patrol; I only bought the Wells about 10 months after it's release because again, I was doing just fine with the free Oddy and later with the Sci Oddy. I refused to play FAW-Setups when they were too strong, because what's the point of wiping entire teams in less than 4 minutes without giving them a chance to fight back. To the dismay of some of my fleeties I refused to bring my T'Varo into premade fights because at that time, with the exception of maybe one other fleet no one else back then had the knowledge nor experience nor skill to prevent me from vaping them over and over again, be it a premade or not. That was before even the term "vaping" got coined, where only a small handful of people knew how to build and fly a vaper, let alone to counter one (nowadays that stuff is common knowledge). I rather flew a regular escort to facilitate more balanced matches.

    So, where was I, oh, the hypocrisy. :D

    You skip the only question I asked you anyway(at the end).
    It's not like nobody has saw IC's pugstomping 3wells 2bug teams and nobody saw you Hank/Hoerder celebrating your own tactics with 3wells/2bugs vs PUG cloakers in game and on forum, right?


    You also failed to notice that my comment about wells and bug was directly related to yesterdays outcry about t6 JHSS and how it's powercreep. It always was power creep, be it superior equipment or superior numbers or superior outright broken thing that people used until fix.

    And yeah, I also said that people always liked OP stuff in STO and were more then happy to use it. A lot of people I only knew as Wells people because they didnt use anything else since wells came out(except minor excursions to Voth and to completely BS chain stun Scryer :)
    and of course, same comment was to hear : "I hate Power Creep on forum while i'm chain stunning these PUGs from Wells/Scryer with 2-3 more Wells/Scryers in team real time" "i complained for a bit then i quit complaining and do the exact opposite" and the like

    Temporal sci, with all 3 flavors, 2 years after is still fastest and best sci ship in game even compared to all (now slightly nerfed)t6 stuff which tells us that when it arrived it was 3 tiers up at least. It was completely overpowered for 2 years and now it got even boosted by RnD and TIF improvement yet you all happily accepted that and created entire meta around it.
    What changed in DR?

    And why take it so personally? we are talking general PvP mentality here, right?
    Best gun is always the best gun. Every game has at least one.
    It's only that now are many best guns.
  • jarvisandalfredjarvisandalfred Member Posts: 1,549 Bug Hunter
    edited March 2015
    I got warned about doing Celine stuff, so I went for Kenny and Dolly. ;)

    It's a wtf-mood shift sort of thing.

    Usually works better when at least one side will /facepalm at what Google Translate did.

    I would have, but I was just taking my best guess. If it didn't manage to get the title entirely right, I'd have been completely clueless. I mean, the translated back to english lyrics, compared to the english lyrics... I'm barely sure it is in fact the same song.
    SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci

    SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci

    Tacs are overrated.

    Game's best wiki

    Build questions? Look here!
  • edited March 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I would have, but I was just taking my best guess. If it didn't manage to get the title entirely right, I'd have been completely clueless. I mean, the translated back to english lyrics, compared to the english lyrics... I'm barely sure it is in fact the same song.

    IMHO, sometimes can forget that this is game...supposed to be fun...we can get pretty uptight and blow our tops. So it's time for Google Translate and "I'm a little tea cup" in a variety of languages, heh.
    deokkent wrote: »
    Impressive list you got there.

    Uh huh...here's a song for you that I used to troll a guy at work with (better than a rickroll, cause it pissed him off): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg59q4puhmg

    Lol, I can't watch it for more than a few seconds before I /facepalm myself. How does she go from something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8QYxmpuyxg :to something like that?

    It's like another artist that went from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR3Vdo5etCQ :to a solo career that included this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgjkth6BRRY :and just the massive amount of Excedrin that required.
This discussion has been closed.