But because Cryptic would never be arsed to make a Klingon or Romulan Dauntless, it wold do just as well to give them it anyway.
So if aliens created their version of a Bird of Prey or Warbird and fooled some Klingon or Romulan crew into thinking that it is one of their ships, then the Federation should get that ship as well? Faction ships should only be available to a specific faction not available to the other factions. Even if it was originally an alien ship designed to look like a faction ship.
There are 2 Steamrunners in Stormfront part 2, one over Earth, the other next to the NX-01.
Watch the episode as the fleet arrives.
Just found it. Those are the same NX-rehashes from "Twilight." Not steamrunner class (22nd century hull, pylons, and nacells). The other SF ship design (the one that looks like the Norway class) is from the episode "Expanse." Also very much 22nd century (though it doesn't use the NX parts).
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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So if aliens created their version of a Bird of Prey or Warbird and fooled some Klingon or Romulan crew into thinking that it is one of their ships, then the Federation should get that ship as well? Faction ships should only be available to a specific faction not available to the other factions. Even if it was originally an alien ship designed to look like a faction ship.
Is the Federation side running low on ship choices and would take any ship they can get? :rolleyes:
Also KDF and RR already got access to Federation ships (Xindi).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Just ofund it. Those are the same NX-rehashes from Twilight. Not steamrunner class (22nd century hull, pylons, and nacells)
I assume you mean the Intrepid type? No they have the bussard collectors set into the hull not above it. There are Intrepid types in the scene as well though.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Is the Federation side running low on ship choices and would take any ship they can get? :rolleyes:
Also KDF and RR already got access to Federation ships (Xindi).
The FED's relationship with the Xindi is a bit more complicated. From how the descriptions on the lock box content went it seems that they have a lot of autonomy (which might be how they explain why they mysteriously were never around between TOS and Nemesis.) The xindi eventually join the FED but until we come to the point of the Ent-J cryptic has free license to make them a relatively independent faction (see. Xindi Boffs and Doffs on ROM and KDF ships.)
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I assume you mean the Intrepid type? No they have the bussard collectors set into the hull not above it. There are Intrepid types in the scene as well though.
OK I think I found it. WAY off in the distance towards the upper left of earth? (there's two FED fed ship classes in the foreground. One is the same class as the intrepid [Norway-ish], the other isn't (NX rehash in a roughly Steamrunner config), and then there's those two in the background which are a third class). Yup, that's a Steamrunner but given that there's no detail you could easily argue within canon that its only a ship that has the same configuration.
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OK I think I found it. WAY off in the distance towards the upper left of earth? (there's two FED fed ship classes in the foreground. One is the same class as the intrepid [Norway-ish], the isn't (NX rehash) and then there's another two in the background which are a third class). Yup, that's a Steamrunner but given that there's no detail you could easily argue within canon that its only a ship that has the same configuration.
There is a front viewed one just over to the right of NX-01 as well.
I don't personally hold it as a Steamrunner, it's just a reused model to me, in the same way the Federation doesn't use the Dauntless.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Is the Federation side running low on ship choices and would take any ship they can get? :rolleyes:
Also KDF and RR already got access to Federation ships (Xindi).
What does a lack of ship choices have to do with the Dauntless? Some Starfleet engineer thought it looked cool so they built their own version.
It is not confirmed that the Xindi are part of the Federation since Klingons can get Xindi doffs. Besides, Xindi ships aren't Starfleet ships while a Dauntless ship designed by Starfleet Engineers is a Starfleet ship.
A little late, but the main downside is that Fed captains have more access to ship traits once they level up each of the ships to the max.
Rom and KDF?
Off to pay for lockbox traits.
...you do know that you'll also get (free) ship traits from the specialization trees, right? You won't need to depend on lockboxes even as a Rom or KDF.
Mind you, I'm not defending Cryptic in this instance; I, too, am angry that the Feds are getting tons of T6 variety while the other one-and-a-half factions each get just one intel ship and one other type of ship. But this "we'll only have two ship traits unless we go lockbox" misinformation is really bugging me, since Tribble clearly shows that we'll be able to get three more ship traits just by grinding the specialization trees.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
When was the Steamrunner seen before DS9/First Contact?
There's a good back and forth in the previous page that pretty well covers it....
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Same could be said for any content. Delta Rising included.
There are reasons for this other than "People don't like it." Most incentive is to NOT play that content. If there is more to do in one area, and 80% less to do in another, logic dictates that 20% will be utilizing the 20% content.
I'll point you to the lack of both ships and ship customization. Also, the fact that the entire storyline is Federation-based, and some of it makes no sense if you're using a non-Federation character.
It's not just that. Not only is there way more stuff default-side, but a lot of the Faction specific content is being taken from the underplayed content and moved there...which further keeps people from having a reason to play anything else.
I think the only "entitlement" comes from anyone playing only one side, and complaining there isn't enough content- because they're just skipping a bunch of it on purpose.
I just levelled a KDF aligned Romulan in 10 hours (ok so we have bonus xp event on, may have taken 20hrs normally) i dont think the content in terms of story and levelling is in any way responsible for low numbers on KDF. As already mentioned by others, it's just down to the IP focus.. Fed! Fed! Fed! Other species exist within the IP for Fed to do stuff with, whether its diplomatic, combat, trade or in Kirks case.. well you catch my drift. Everything else is directly resultant from that. End-Game 'faction based' queing shows us how many are playing what faction*, and Ship Options and Developement show us where Cryptic are seeing the money coming from. Yeah it kinda sucks, but Id rather have a game we can play, than them risk allocating, potentialy wastefull, resources on a minority player base, that could result in not having a game.
*what faction in terms of KDF players i mean actively playing Mains, as opposed to having alts to farm contraband and prisoners etc.
I just levelled a KDF aligned Romulan in 10 hours (ok so we have bonus xp event on, may have taken 20hrs normally) i dont think the content in terms of story and levelling is in any way responsible for low numbers on KDF. As already mentioned by others, it's just down to the IP focus.. Fed! Fed! Fed!
*what faction in terms of KDF players i mean actively playing Mains, as opposed to having alts to farm contraband and prisoners etc.
I think we all need to remember, that up until recently, anyone who joined this game had to start with a Federation character, thus many gamers who only play with one (or otherwise limited) characters wouldn't have had a choice in the matter, and if people became highly invested in a FED character, why would they then build up a KDF (or Republic) when there's not a whole lot of uniqueness about them?
There is a chance that if all factions were open from the get-go, more people would have chosen a KDF as their main than those we've already got. Unfortunately though, this isn't the case, and many people (especially those limited on time) would have already got stuck in to their FED characters, no longer having the time (or money) to invest further.
There is a chance that if all factions were open from the get-go, more people would have chosen a KDF as their main than those we've already got. Unfortunately though, this isn't the case, and many people (especially those limited on time) would have already got stuck in to their FED characters, no longer having the time (or money) to invest further.
There may have been a chance but considering what IP this is do you honestly consider that to be a very good one? No of course not. The romulans and klingons have two things working against them, the circumstances of STO and the focus of Star Trek. While other factions may have been involved with the series even the klingons saw far less development than the FED in every area. There is simply far more opportunity to become invested in starfleet than any other part of the ST universe. Granted, this does not mean that EVERY player is most keen on impersonating Archer/Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway, but it does mean that you should expect to see a strong FED bias in what fation people choose.
And we do, so while we can argue still further about contributing factors we should reasonably accept Star Trek as being the primary agent here.
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There may have been a chance but considering what IP this is do you honestly consider that to be a very good one?
[snip]
What I'm trying to say is that, before LoR (which introduced the option to start as a Romulan and/or Klingon, everyone was forced to start as Federation. It didn't matter whether those players were fans of the Federation, Klingons, Romulans or were just here for a new gaming experience - whilst it's likely minimal, I've no doubt that some players of this game aren't necessarily fans of Trek like the majority. Don't get me wrong, they've all probably watched an episode or two, or have seen a ST film (maybe even just the new ones) but some people are far from hardcore fans.
Those individuals, and no doubt others might not have chosen Federation if other options were always open to them. Some people might have joined up, got to the could-have-been faction selection screen and thought "well, I guess most people are FED, I'm going to try something different and go KDF". Further to their misfortune, when the option to choose your faction did come into play, there was a third option (the Republic) there, so no doubt many new (and/or returning) players would have chosen the Republic over the KDF, and likely FED too.
I'm not disputing that a large percentage of the playerbase is FED, that would be stupid. All I'm saying is that if circumstances were different from launch, there could potentially be a lot more KDF players than there currently are.
There may have been a chance but considering what IP this is do you honestly consider that to be a very good one? No of course not. The romulans and klingons have two things working against them, the circumstances of STO and the focus of Star Trek. While other factions may have been involved with the series even the klingons saw far less development than the FED in every area. There is simply far more opportunity to become invested in starfleet than any other part of the ST universe. Granted, this does not mean that EVERY player is most keen on impersonating Archer/Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway, but it does mean that you should expect to see a strong FED bias in what fation people choose.
And we do, so while we can argue still further about contributing factors we should reasonably accept Star Trek as being the primary agent here.
It was be shown that the focus of the ip has nothing to do what faction people play in the mmo.
Wow is alliance based.
Star Wars is Jedi based.
There is a chance that if all factions were open from the get-go, more people would have chosen a KDF as their main than those we've already got. Unfortunately though, this isn't the case, and many people (especially those limited on time) would have already got stuck in to their FED characters, no longer having the time (or money) to invest further.
That is a valid point, and I'm sure we would have seen far more KDF 'Main' players in game had that been the case. Enough to swing Cryptics resources in favour of a more balanced faction spend, I'm not so sure. We are so far into the game now, for there to be any sure way of answering this question, the speculation does, however, provide some very entertaining dialogue and discussion.
It was be shown that the focus of the ip has nothing to do what faction people play in the mmo.
Wow is alliance based.
Star Wars is Jedi based.
To add to this as i already mentioned previously the bad-TRIBBLE-titude of villians can have really strong appeal to the fans. I dont think Star Trek has any villians that anyone could call bad TRIBBLE. Darth Maul is pretty much an evil dude...but yet people want to play Sith Assassins in SWTOR. How many people booted up SWTOR for the first time and said to themselves "i wanna be just like Qui Gon Jin"? Most of the combat in Star Trek is ship to ship. But on the few rare occasions they had hand to hand combat it was like "mehhhh". Star Wars EP1 storyline kinda sucked, but the final fight at the end between Darth Maul, Obi Wan and Qui Gon was pretty sweet. One on one with laser swords is good, but 2 on 1 with the 2 guys going up against an aggressive opponent? When i see stuff like that and i think about the last Trek movie i watched which was Nemesis and look at Picard v Shinzon or Riker v Viceroy (that last one actually felt forced) it just seems lame in comparison. But then again in SW EP2 and EP3 somebody got their head stuck up their butt and they gave us the lame 2v1 Obi Wan, Anakin, Dooku fight which i thought sucked and the Obi Wan and Anakin fight in lava that sucked even more.
And with WoW as i mentioned there is also the racial differences early on with Horde having Bloodlust and will of the forsaken and alliance not having anything as good. Then they changed racials around a bit and gave everyone bloodlust/heroism but then they also gave humans/alliance every man for themselves which is basically a free pvp trinket and it was a better form of will of the forsaken (which only breaks fears and charms). How many top guilds in vanilla WoW ended up rolling Horde because Bloodlust (and rolling bloodlusts) was a better choice then 5 minute paladin blessings?
It was be shown that the focus of the ip has nothing to do what faction people play in the mmo.
Wow is alliance based.
Star Wars is Jedi based.
I think you may have actually argued against yourself with this statement.
IP's generally always promote Good Guys over Bad Guys. The whole purpose of the Bad Guy is to highlight the Good Guy. Good Guy saves the day, Bad Guy gets dead, fundamental action stereotype! The majority want to play the percieved hero, and then you have an enthusiastic minority who like to play the Bad Guy, The Underdog, The Antihero.. It is from these, relative few, that Cult followings are born.
As a side note (not related to your comment) in terms of comparing factional resources in an MMO, Wow is always the worst example people can use. As a purely subscribed game, it doesnt matter what faction people prefer, it is all down to how many subscribers they have. They dont need to focus on the profitability of 1 faction over another, they just need to focus on developing the game as a whole, selling expansions, and maintaining subscriptions.
I think you may have actually disproved your own argument, with this statement.
IP's generally always promote Good Guys over Bad Guys. The whole purpose of the Bad Guy is to highlight the Good Guy. Good Guy saves the day, Bad Guy gets dead, fundamental action stereotype! The majority want to play the percieved hero, and then you have an enthusiastic minority who like to play the Bad Guy, The Underdog, The Antihero.. It is from these, relative, few.. that Cult followings are born.
Yah i think what the Klingons need is a really good villian in the movies that they can say "wow i wanna be like that guy". Even with JJ Trek1 and 2 the villians seem kinda lame.
Using Star Wars 1 as an example again Darth Maul was bad TRIBBLE yadda yadda. But did you guys know that Ray Park the guy that played Darth Maul was actually a stuntman and martial artist? from what i gather he did his own stunts and i think he coreographed his own fight scenes? And look at his weapon, the double bladed light saber. It is basically a bo staff, something that an IRL martial artist like Ray Park probably has experience handling and can easily design his fight scenes around. Now compare that to the Klingon melee weapon of choice...the Bath'Leth a make believe weapon that is pretty cumbersome and unweildy. Cracked.com actually did an article about the worst fictional weapons and the Bath'Leth was on that list. The weapon doesnt have any range and if you tried to swing it one handed you have one of the sharp blades going into your own gut. They even had a pic of Michael Dorn/Worf doing his Tai Chi routine with a Bath'Leth and his pose looked like someone that doesnt know martial arts or melee weapons trying to use melee weapons. In other words it didnt look like it made sense.
But anyyyyways...Star Trek, even JJ Trek could learn from SW EP1s example and give us a villian like Darth Maul. For your Klingon villian pick a stuntman or someone with martial arts experience to do their own fights and their own moves. THEN give them the ability to design their own Klingon themed weapons. Like two Katana looking weapons with handles but Klingon like blades. I say that because if you hand an IRL martial arts person a Bath'leth they are gonna look at it and go "wtf is this?". Now all you gotta do is get JJ Trek Sulu and his "fencing" or give JJ Spock a Lirpa or hell get JJ Sulu AND Spock to fight my proposed villian and all your STO KDF problems are gone. :P
I think you may have actually argued against yourself with this statement.
IP's generally always promote Good Guys over Bad Guys. The whole purpose of the Bad Guy is to highlight the Good Guy. Good Guy saves the day, Bad Guy gets dead, fundamental action stereotype! The majority want to play the percieved hero, and then you have an enthusiastic minority who like to play the Bad Guy, The Underdog, The Antihero.. It is from these, relative, few.. that Cult followings are born.
Unless you are under 14 you realize that their are no bad guys or good guys.
The horde are not the bad guys in wow. They are the bad guys in the original ip.
I have been a Star Trek fan for 40 years. Star Trek was on heavy syndication where I live.
When sto game was announced, I couldn't wait to play a fed. The game came out, I played a few missions and started a kdf character and never looked back.
The fed is not Star Trek. As a kdf you can pretend that the Feds aren't sociopaths and laying waste to the Galaxy.
What faction the ip deals with does not matter in an mmo.
That being said, I do not believe the kdf or romulans can be "saved" in a 5 year old mmo. That boat has sailed.
Ya know, it's perfectly reasonable that Starfleet Engineering looked over Voyager's scan of the fake Dauntless, and tried to build their own for testing. The alien ship clearly had superior tech at the time, why wouldn't they try and see how it performs?
It turns out those test ships work well (they're T6 after all) so they put it in production - since they had it ready anyway.
It's also reasonable that the other factions wouldn't have it - would the RSE or Klingons have had access to Voyager's databases? Even if they did, would they have bothered building a Federation-styled science ship for experimentation?
I think you may have actually argued against yourself with this statement.
IP's generally always promote Good Guys over Bad Guys. The whole purpose of the Bad Guy is to highlight the Good Guy. Good Guy saves the day, Bad Guy gets dead, fundamental action stereotype! The majority want to play the percieved hero, and then you have an enthusiastic minority who like to play the Bad Guy, The Underdog, The Antihero.. It is from these, relative few, that Cult followings are born.
As i said 'Generally and Percieved Hero' Maybe its just my age then, but the concept of Good Guy vs Bad Guy still applies, whether it is fictional or.. oh hang on we are talking about films, comic books and games here...
Ya know, it's perfectly reasonable that Starfleet Engineering looked over Voyager's scan of the fake Dauntless, and tried to build their own for testing. The alien ship clearly had superior tech at the time, why wouldn't they try and see how it performs?
It turns out those test ships work well (they're T6 after all) so they put it in production - since they had it ready anyway.
It's also reasonable that the other factions wouldn't have it - would the RSE or Klingons have had access to Voyager's databases? Even if they did, would they have bothered building a Federation-styled science ship for experimentation?
I'm pretty sure I explained why that is implausible earlier.... Namely that the crew of Voyager didn't have enough data about the Dauntless to even make a functional QSS.... let alone the rest of the ship.
Comments
So if aliens created their version of a Bird of Prey or Warbird and fooled some Klingon or Romulan crew into thinking that it is one of their ships, then the Federation should get that ship as well? Faction ships should only be available to a specific faction not available to the other factions. Even if it was originally an alien ship designed to look like a faction ship.
Just found it. Those are the same NX-rehashes from "Twilight." Not steamrunner class (22nd century hull, pylons, and nacells). The other SF ship design (the one that looks like the Norway class) is from the episode "Expanse." Also very much 22nd century (though it doesn't use the NX parts).
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Is the Federation side running low on ship choices and would take any ship they can get? :rolleyes:
Also KDF and RR already got access to Federation ships (Xindi).
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I assume you mean the Intrepid type? No they have the bussard collectors set into the hull not above it. There are Intrepid types in the scene as well though.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The FED's relationship with the Xindi is a bit more complicated. From how the descriptions on the lock box content went it seems that they have a lot of autonomy (which might be how they explain why they mysteriously were never around between TOS and Nemesis.) The xindi eventually join the FED but until we come to the point of the Ent-J cryptic has free license to make them a relatively independent faction (see. Xindi Boffs and Doffs on ROM and KDF ships.)
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OK I think I found it. WAY off in the distance towards the upper left of earth? (there's two FED fed ship classes in the foreground. One is the same class as the intrepid [Norway-ish], the other isn't (NX rehash in a roughly Steamrunner config), and then there's those two in the background which are a third class). Yup, that's a Steamrunner but given that there's no detail you could easily argue within canon that its only a ship that has the same configuration.
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There is a front viewed one just over to the right of NX-01 as well.
I don't personally hold it as a Steamrunner, it's just a reused model to me, in the same way the Federation doesn't use the Dauntless.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
What does a lack of ship choices have to do with the Dauntless? Some Starfleet engineer thought it looked cool so they built their own version.
It is not confirmed that the Xindi are part of the Federation since Klingons can get Xindi doffs. Besides, Xindi ships aren't Starfleet ships while a Dauntless ship designed by Starfleet Engineers is a Starfleet ship.
Another way of looking at it is "KDF and Rom get more than one ship this time :eek:" but I'm just a glass half full kind of person I guess.
...you do know that you'll also get (free) ship traits from the specialization trees, right? You won't need to depend on lockboxes even as a Rom or KDF.
Mind you, I'm not defending Cryptic in this instance; I, too, am angry that the Feds are getting tons of T6 variety while the other one-and-a-half factions each get just one intel ship and one other type of ship. But this "we'll only have two ship traits unless we go lockbox" misinformation is really bugging me, since Tribble clearly shows that we'll be able to get three more ship traits just by grinding the specialization trees.
The rest look like ..........Blaaaaa
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
There's a good back and forth in the previous page that pretty well covers it....
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I just levelled a KDF aligned Romulan in 10 hours (ok so we have bonus xp event on, may have taken 20hrs normally) i dont think the content in terms of story and levelling is in any way responsible for low numbers on KDF. As already mentioned by others, it's just down to the IP focus.. Fed! Fed! Fed! Other species exist within the IP for Fed to do stuff with, whether its diplomatic, combat, trade or in Kirks case.. well you catch my drift. Everything else is directly resultant from that. End-Game 'faction based' queing shows us how many are playing what faction*, and Ship Options and Developement show us where Cryptic are seeing the money coming from. Yeah it kinda sucks, but Id rather have a game we can play, than them risk allocating, potentialy wastefull, resources on a minority player base, that could result in not having a game.
*what faction in terms of KDF players i mean actively playing Mains, as opposed to having alts to farm contraband and prisoners etc.
Every single c store ship, costume and a few bridges.
I think we all need to remember, that up until recently, anyone who joined this game had to start with a Federation character, thus many gamers who only play with one (or otherwise limited) characters wouldn't have had a choice in the matter, and if people became highly invested in a FED character, why would they then build up a KDF (or Republic) when there's not a whole lot of uniqueness about them?
There is a chance that if all factions were open from the get-go, more people would have chosen a KDF as their main than those we've already got. Unfortunately though, this isn't the case, and many people (especially those limited on time) would have already got stuck in to their FED characters, no longer having the time (or money) to invest further.
There may have been a chance but considering what IP this is do you honestly consider that to be a very good one? No of course not. The romulans and klingons have two things working against them, the circumstances of STO and the focus of Star Trek. While other factions may have been involved with the series even the klingons saw far less development than the FED in every area. There is simply far more opportunity to become invested in starfleet than any other part of the ST universe. Granted, this does not mean that EVERY player is most keen on impersonating Archer/Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway, but it does mean that you should expect to see a strong FED bias in what fation people choose.
And we do, so while we can argue still further about contributing factors we should reasonably accept Star Trek as being the primary agent here.
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Those individuals, and no doubt others might not have chosen Federation if other options were always open to them. Some people might have joined up, got to the could-have-been faction selection screen and thought "well, I guess most people are FED, I'm going to try something different and go KDF". Further to their misfortune, when the option to choose your faction did come into play, there was a third option (the Republic) there, so no doubt many new (and/or returning) players would have chosen the Republic over the KDF, and likely FED too.
I'm not disputing that a large percentage of the playerbase is FED, that would be stupid. All I'm saying is that if circumstances were different from launch, there could potentially be a lot more KDF players than there currently are.
It was be shown that the focus of the ip has nothing to do what faction people play in the mmo.
Wow is alliance based.
Star Wars is Jedi based.
That is a valid point, and I'm sure we would have seen far more KDF 'Main' players in game had that been the case. Enough to swing Cryptics resources in favour of a more balanced faction spend, I'm not so sure. We are so far into the game now, for there to be any sure way of answering this question, the speculation does, however, provide some very entertaining dialogue and discussion.
To add to this as i already mentioned previously the bad-TRIBBLE-titude of villians can have really strong appeal to the fans. I dont think Star Trek has any villians that anyone could call bad TRIBBLE. Darth Maul is pretty much an evil dude...but yet people want to play Sith Assassins in SWTOR. How many people booted up SWTOR for the first time and said to themselves "i wanna be just like Qui Gon Jin"? Most of the combat in Star Trek is ship to ship. But on the few rare occasions they had hand to hand combat it was like "mehhhh". Star Wars EP1 storyline kinda sucked, but the final fight at the end between Darth Maul, Obi Wan and Qui Gon was pretty sweet. One on one with laser swords is good, but 2 on 1 with the 2 guys going up against an aggressive opponent? When i see stuff like that and i think about the last Trek movie i watched which was Nemesis and look at Picard v Shinzon or Riker v Viceroy (that last one actually felt forced) it just seems lame in comparison. But then again in SW EP2 and EP3 somebody got their head stuck up their butt and they gave us the lame 2v1 Obi Wan, Anakin, Dooku fight which i thought sucked and the Obi Wan and Anakin fight in lava that sucked even more.
And with WoW as i mentioned there is also the racial differences early on with Horde having Bloodlust and will of the forsaken and alliance not having anything as good. Then they changed racials around a bit and gave everyone bloodlust/heroism but then they also gave humans/alliance every man for themselves which is basically a free pvp trinket and it was a better form of will of the forsaken (which only breaks fears and charms). How many top guilds in vanilla WoW ended up rolling Horde because Bloodlust (and rolling bloodlusts) was a better choice then 5 minute paladin blessings?
I think you may have actually argued against yourself with this statement.
IP's generally always promote Good Guys over Bad Guys. The whole purpose of the Bad Guy is to highlight the Good Guy. Good Guy saves the day, Bad Guy gets dead, fundamental action stereotype! The majority want to play the percieved hero, and then you have an enthusiastic minority who like to play the Bad Guy, The Underdog, The Antihero.. It is from these, relative few, that Cult followings are born.
As a side note (not related to your comment) in terms of comparing factional resources in an MMO, Wow is always the worst example people can use. As a purely subscribed game, it doesnt matter what faction people prefer, it is all down to how many subscribers they have. They dont need to focus on the profitability of 1 faction over another, they just need to focus on developing the game as a whole, selling expansions, and maintaining subscriptions.
Yah i think what the Klingons need is a really good villian in the movies that they can say "wow i wanna be like that guy". Even with JJ Trek1 and 2 the villians seem kinda lame.
Using Star Wars 1 as an example again Darth Maul was bad TRIBBLE yadda yadda. But did you guys know that Ray Park the guy that played Darth Maul was actually a stuntman and martial artist? from what i gather he did his own stunts and i think he coreographed his own fight scenes? And look at his weapon, the double bladed light saber. It is basically a bo staff, something that an IRL martial artist like Ray Park probably has experience handling and can easily design his fight scenes around. Now compare that to the Klingon melee weapon of choice...the Bath'Leth a make believe weapon that is pretty cumbersome and unweildy. Cracked.com actually did an article about the worst fictional weapons and the Bath'Leth was on that list. The weapon doesnt have any range and if you tried to swing it one handed you have one of the sharp blades going into your own gut. They even had a pic of Michael Dorn/Worf doing his Tai Chi routine with a Bath'Leth and his pose looked like someone that doesnt know martial arts or melee weapons trying to use melee weapons. In other words it didnt look like it made sense.
But anyyyyways...Star Trek, even JJ Trek could learn from SW EP1s example and give us a villian like Darth Maul. For your Klingon villian pick a stuntman or someone with martial arts experience to do their own fights and their own moves. THEN give them the ability to design their own Klingon themed weapons. Like two Katana looking weapons with handles but Klingon like blades. I say that because if you hand an IRL martial arts person a Bath'leth they are gonna look at it and go "wtf is this?". Now all you gotta do is get JJ Trek Sulu and his "fencing" or give JJ Spock a Lirpa or hell get JJ Sulu AND Spock to fight my proposed villian and all your STO KDF problems are gone. :P
Yeah I'd get behind that 100%
Unless you are under 14 you realize that their are no bad guys or good guys.
The horde are not the bad guys in wow. They are the bad guys in the original ip.
I have been a Star Trek fan for 40 years. Star Trek was on heavy syndication where I live.
When sto game was announced, I couldn't wait to play a fed. The game came out, I played a few missions and started a kdf character and never looked back.
The fed is not Star Trek. As a kdf you can pretend that the Feds aren't sociopaths and laying waste to the Galaxy.
What faction the ip deals with does not matter in an mmo.
That being said, I do not believe the kdf or romulans can be "saved" in a 5 year old mmo. That boat has sailed.
It turns out those test ships work well (they're T6 after all) so they put it in production - since they had it ready anyway.
It's also reasonable that the other factions wouldn't have it - would the RSE or Klingons have had access to Voyager's databases? Even if they did, would they have bothered building a Federation-styled science ship for experimentation?
As i said 'Generally and Percieved Hero' Maybe its just my age then, but the concept of Good Guy vs Bad Guy still applies, whether it is fictional or.. oh hang on we are talking about films, comic books and games here...
I can imagine that
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