That's probably true. They said you could do everything in DR with your T5 ship. They didn't say you'd be able to do it easily or well...
I honestly don't see the problem unless your using a TRIBBLE build. I did all the stuff on my t5 with XII gear the whole way to 60 and then some on elite and didn't see a problem. Build your stuff up better. It's only slightly more challenging, and that delta gear is freaking op in my oppinion. rarely could I lose shields.
To be honest after getting hit with the intelligence abilities I wished I had hybred seating because I saw then and there how usefull they could be to me. Not saying I needed them, but a deep seeded want.
I honestly don't see the problem unless your using a TRIBBLE build. I did all the stuff on my t5 with XII gear the whole way to 60 and then some on elite and didn't see a problem. Build your stuff up better. It's only slightly more challenging, and that delta gear is freaking op in my oppinion. rarely could I lose shields.
To be honest after getting hit with the intelligence abilities I wished I had hybred seating because I saw then and there how usefull they could be to me. Not saying I needed them, but a deep seeded want.
I'm just judging by what I saw in the OP's video. I'm assuming he's competent and has a decent build, otherwise why post it and open yourself up to criticism?
If that particular quest took him 2.5 hours, in a T5 with MkXII gear and a decent build. It's not simply a learn to play issue, but a balance one.
Although there did seem to be some odd target priority going on in the vid, now that I'm re-watching it. Captainwh0, any reason why were seemed to be tab cycling through them rather than focus firing?
I even jumped up to elite to see what it was like and my Wells with fairly run of the mill gear has been doing fine. Aside from against a single Malon battleship which pretty much insta-kills even on normal, other people don't seem to be having that issue though.
I think that's the key here. Leveling/upgrading should make your character feel more powerful, not less.
This is a huge problem I have with all end game content in all MMOs. For most of your career you get stronger and stronger. Then you hit end game and are suddenly such a gimp you're not even allowed to try and fight the enemies without five, ten, twenty, or fourty of your allies. And all fourth of you are wailing away on a single baddie for like 20 minutes.
That doesn't feel epic, it doesn't make me feel powerful. That makes every player look like a worthless extra in a movie where the NPC is the star.
At least here in our five vs one battles it's not as bad.
This is a huge problem I have with all end game content in all MMOs. For most of your career you get stronger and stronger. Then you hit end game and are suddenly such a gimp you're not even allowed to try and fight the enemies without five, ten, twenty, or fourty of your allies. And all fourth of you are wailing away on a single baddie for like 20 minutes.
That doesn't feel epic, it doesn't make me feel powerful. That makes every player look like a worthless extra in a movie where the NPC is the star.
At least here in our five vs one battles it's not as bad.
I agree with this. It's one of the reasons I hated raiding in most MMOs, also didn't help that I usually MT'd and spent most of my time staring at a giant pair of feet.
The ESTF's we have now, still feel somewhat epic to me because it's 5 ships vs the borg or an undine invasion force or something. Battles are fast and hectic at times, I'd hate to slog through fights that take 15+ minutes.
This really should be in the Tribble forum. In fact there's at least one other post that's already going strong in the tribble forum that discusses this.
But let me try and stop all the name calling and speculation here on general for those that can't be bothered to read tribble.
THe general conversation going on tribble isn't that it's "hard".
There's two issues. One HPs of some of the enemies don't seem to be scaling between normal, advanced, and elite. They seem to always sit at the top end regardless of your difficulty.
The second issue isn't that it's hard, but that because their seems to be a huge break between HPs a certain mob has and the DPS output their doing it doesn't make them hard, just boring. People with 5k and above ships are complaining that they're going into the fight, taking quite some time to finish a fight, and still coming out with 100% shields and HPs. More HPs doesn't make it hard, just sluggishly boring. We think in this case it's either poor UI scripting where certain mobs aren't using their abilities at the proper time, or just plain bad design.
So that's the general jist of what the conversation on Tribble is saying.
I'm just judging by what I saw in the OP's video. I'm assuming he's competent and has a decent build, otherwise why post it and open yourself up to criticism?
If that particular quest took him 2.5 hours, in a T5 with MkXII gear and a decent build. It's not simply a learn to play issue, but a balance one.
Although there did seem to be some odd target priority going on in the vid, now that I'm re-watching it. Captainwh0, any reason why were seemed to be tab cycling through them rather than focus firing?
at the time I wasn't actually battleing I was cycling to try and show the sheer number. and yep iv been around for a long time and all my gear is fleet/purple. im using that ship to see if a basic lvl 40 ship could do it. iv also used lockbox stuff. but I wouldn't try and tank that, even in my temporal destroyer
so if you ever at one point die on t6, you should go ahead and uninstall the game and find another hobby because you definately no gamer
hmm. I see your angle. however. I have seen this game grow from the ground up. (more than one account)
I know what it was, what it could have been and what it is. you will find that many of the older players are beginning to get ground down by the games direction of recent. ever heard of the straw that broke the camels back? its getting that way now.
I didn't say I will quit only that im saddened. however it has gone through my mind (as seen in another thread)
I have a philosophy to gameing. it is entertainment. it should be fun. if its dosent entertain, if it isn't fun. then it is no game, it is work, a chore or a job. that is not something you want to spend your well earned time off doing
So if you ever at one point die on t6, you should go ahead and uninstall the game and find another hobby because you definately no gamer
That's not EXACTLY true. If my random unluck you get hit by two shield penetrating attacks in a row there's a good chance you'll die. I'm still not sure what the attack actually is, but there's a couple that totally ignore your shields, I mean totally ignore them. If they go back to back, you don't have time to react.
It's pretty much the new version of the Borg Invisi-Torps.
You in a cruiser, as an engi, with scramble sensors, 2 tac consoles and all beams...
Were you expecting the world record in dps?
Personally I'd probably go ahead and delete that ship but if you insist on using it, aux2bat to double your tac abilities, then I'd probably pick up some tractor mines and nukara mines, load 3 or 4 torpedos up front with the rapid reloader doffs.
1 breen cluster, maybe rom rep torp and then 2 fast ones to score reload effect. Could be the dyson and 80whatever reps' fast torpedos.
Lastly if possible either grav well, guess you cant have that one, or tractor beam repulsors.
Alternately you can do feedback pulse
/edit
ps.
the main concept being since your energy weapons are going to be TRIBBLE - no cannons, no tac slots, use projectiles instead and fly with high aux for grav/feedback/repuls or high shield to tank better.
You in a cruiser, as an engi, with scramble sensors, 2 tac consoles and all beams...
Were you expecting the world record in dps?
Personally I'd probably go ahead and delete that ship but if you insist on using it, aux2bat to double your tac abilities, then I'd probably pick up some tractor mines and nukara mines, load 3 or 4 torpedos up front with the rapid reloader doffs.
1 breen cluster, maybe rom rep torp and then 2 fast ones to score reload effect. Could be the dyson and 80whatever reps' fast torpedos.
Lastly if possible either grav well, guess you cant have that one, or tractor beam repulsors.
Alternately you can do feedback pulse
/edit
ps.
the main concept being since your energy weapons are going to be TRIBBLE - no cannons, no tac slots, use projectiles instead and fly with high aux for grav/feedback/repuls or high shield to tank better.
the point of that was to show a TRIBBLE ftp/noob in a ship that they would be using.
I understand about wep dynamics. I had mines and I had grav torps and was using aux 2 batt with purple doffs and elite gear. and the dyson 2pt set that boosts antiproton, plas leach. and faw. but the crazy pew rendered mines useless and scramble sensors kept the majority of the fire off me. also it took 5 tractor beams to slow these guys down. I will post a vid of a cruser doing 26 impulse even with 3 tractor beams on him
To be fair,
I can't see people complaining about how hard the enemies in the Delta quadrant are.
Players have been complaining about power creep and how fast and easy current STFs are because of outrageously high DPS players are able to reach.
Just the other day, I was reading a post about how STFs were a joke now because one or two scimitars were able to complete everything by themselves, in record time, leaving everyone else bored....
Players demand more powerful ships. Power sells, pay-to-win is here to stay. Each new lockbox ship has to be bigger and badder TRIBBLE than the last. Tier 6 is a reality.
I felt that the Vaadwaur were definitely designed with intelligence ships in mind, since their defense and hull values feel higher compared to other races, even on normal. Exploiting their vulnerabilities might become very useful. They also have some interesting mechanics, such as the artillery barrage and constricting anchors. But over time they start to become very tedious to engage in combat. I even fell asleep at one point...and lived. :P
On the ground, they're a cakewalk. You can mow them down on any difficulty.
To be fair,
So here we are, on the brink of a new expansion, We've got more powerful ships and harder missions incoming.
Seems to me we've all gotten exactly what we asked for.
The problem is, and what a lot of us are saying on Tirbble, is that the missions aren't HARDER, they're just longer and more of a slugging match. Hit Points and Shields does not make jack HARDER. HPs, Shields with an equal rise in DPS/CC make things harder.
The way they have it set up right now, it's not harder. It just takes a bit longer to do the exact same thing we do now. Sure we won't steamroll the content, but we're not going to go into a mission and go "oh TRIBBLE what do I do to win". We're going to go in and go "Oh TRIBBLE, this is going to take FOREVER."
On the ground, they're a cakewalk. You can mow them down on any difficulty.
Yeah but I like what I'm seeing on the ground. They actually crouch, flank you, use cover, use team abilities to support one another. All ground has always been a cakewalk. At least now they're beginning to use strategy and tactics on you.
If you are going to do a valid test of how well the balance is, you should buy a t6 ship and spend 500,000 dil on upgrading 2 front weapons
Because that's what the TRIBBLE noobs will be flying
And, is what the maps were intended for if we include cryptic wishful thinking
TRIBBLE=standard noob=new person to game f2p=free to play.
most in the game are unwilling to spend real money in game, the majority will be flying lvl 40 ship, which the devs say will be competitive. I think the t5u upgrade is costing 1000 zen.
this has become a pay to win game. especially with the dil cap and nerf
Yeah but I like what I'm seeing on the ground. They actually crouch, flank you, use cover, use team abilities to support one another. All ground has always been a cakewalk. At least now they're beginning to use strategy and tactics on you.
agreed I love the ground vaadwar, the special abilities, the fact that one can shield another, and they even employ crude tactics (as opposed to none) they are easy to kill but the gank and flank you so you need to think.
as for space I think they hit a good balance with the cardasians
The problem is, and what a lot of us are saying on Tirbble, is that the missions aren't HARDER, they're just longer and more of a slugging match. Hit Points and Shields does not make jack HARDER. HPs, Shields with an equal rise in DPS/CC make things harder.
The way they have it set up right now, it's not harder. It just takes a bit longer to do the exact same thing we do now. Sure we won't steamroll the content, but we're not going to go into a mission and go "oh TRIBBLE what do I do to win". We're going to go in and go "Oh TRIBBLE, this is going to take FOREVER."
Mark my words,
Once decent players like the pvp crowd get into these, they will clean up these missions quickly.
Then they will post guides, with recommended builds, gear and strategies.
When they do, the rest of us will do the research and adapt our builds.
Sometimes, meeting a new challenge can be fun too.
Besides, the Delta reputation, gear and passives and the new captain progression abilities will all help with these missions I bet.
And in a couple of months or so, after everyone's had plenty of experience with these new missions, I'm betting we'll all be bored again.
I am going to laugh a little. I also have been testing the missions. I love the fact that I am forced to actually fight. The enemies have new abilities that are fun and deadly. and ive witnessed NPS throwing heals on each other (extend shields and eng team) if you want to just blow things up and be done with it this is going to suck for you. however if your looking for a little more challenge this is fun.
I agree with the point that if you pay you get there faster but aslong as the gear or item is obtainable, in any way, without paying, you are not paying to win.
Personally I don't stress over it because my gameplay is earning ec, earning dil, so along as I have access to the maps, it's business as usual.
To me it comes down to what profit can I make how fast. And my guess is going to be that no matter what - overpowered Dil Rising NPCs or not, classic STF 5 min maps will remain the champion potentially forever.
And for cryptic it seems it comes down to waste as much of your time as possible so I wouldn't be surprised if they gave waves of NPCs 1,000,000 hull in between those useless text windows people call "story"
I am going to laugh a little. I also have been testing the missions. I love the fact that I am forced to actually fight. The enemies have new abilities that are fun and deadly. and ive witnessed NPS throwing heals on each other (extend shields and eng team) if you want to just blow things up and be done with it this is going to suck for you. however if your looking for a little more challenge this is fun.
Comments
I laughed way too hard at this. Boss thinks I've lost my mind. Thanks for the chuckle
I honestly don't see the problem unless your using a TRIBBLE build. I did all the stuff on my t5 with XII gear the whole way to 60 and then some on elite and didn't see a problem. Build your stuff up better. It's only slightly more challenging, and that delta gear is freaking op in my oppinion. rarely could I lose shields.
To be honest after getting hit with the intelligence abilities I wished I had hybred seating because I saw then and there how usefull they could be to me. Not saying I needed them, but a deep seeded want.
/smack
Don't you give those money changers ideas!
I'm just judging by what I saw in the OP's video. I'm assuming he's competent and has a decent build, otherwise why post it and open yourself up to criticism?
If that particular quest took him 2.5 hours, in a T5 with MkXII gear and a decent build. It's not simply a learn to play issue, but a balance one.
Although there did seem to be some odd target priority going on in the vid, now that I'm re-watching it. Captainwh0, any reason why were seemed to be tab cycling through them rather than focus firing?
This is a huge problem I have with all end game content in all MMOs. For most of your career you get stronger and stronger. Then you hit end game and are suddenly such a gimp you're not even allowed to try and fight the enemies without five, ten, twenty, or fourty of your allies. And all fourth of you are wailing away on a single baddie for like 20 minutes.
That doesn't feel epic, it doesn't make me feel powerful. That makes every player look like a worthless extra in a movie where the NPC is the star.
At least here in our five vs one battles it's not as bad.
I agree with this. It's one of the reasons I hated raiding in most MMOs, also didn't help that I usually MT'd and spent most of my time staring at a giant pair of feet.
The ESTF's we have now, still feel somewhat epic to me because it's 5 ships vs the borg or an undine invasion force or something. Battles are fast and hectic at times, I'd hate to slog through fights that take 15+ minutes.
naa they are like breen cluster torps but are tricobalt, and are fast
But let me try and stop all the name calling and speculation here on general for those that can't be bothered to read tribble.
THe general conversation going on tribble isn't that it's "hard".
There's two issues. One HPs of some of the enemies don't seem to be scaling between normal, advanced, and elite. They seem to always sit at the top end regardless of your difficulty.
The second issue isn't that it's hard, but that because their seems to be a huge break between HPs a certain mob has and the DPS output their doing it doesn't make them hard, just boring. People with 5k and above ships are complaining that they're going into the fight, taking quite some time to finish a fight, and still coming out with 100% shields and HPs. More HPs doesn't make it hard, just sluggishly boring. We think in this case it's either poor UI scripting where certain mobs aren't using their abilities at the proper time, or just plain bad design.
So that's the general jist of what the conversation on Tribble is saying.
So if you ever at one point die on t6, you should go ahead and uninstall the game and find another hobby because you definately no gamer
at the time I wasn't actually battleing I was cycling to try and show the sheer number. and yep iv been around for a long time and all my gear is fleet/purple. im using that ship to see if a basic lvl 40 ship could do it. iv also used lockbox stuff. but I wouldn't try and tank that, even in my temporal destroyer
hmm. I see your angle. however. I have seen this game grow from the ground up. (more than one account)
I know what it was, what it could have been and what it is. you will find that many of the older players are beginning to get ground down by the games direction of recent. ever heard of the straw that broke the camels back? its getting that way now.
I didn't say I will quit only that im saddened. however it has gone through my mind (as seen in another thread)
I have a philosophy to gameing. it is entertainment. it should be fun. if its dosent entertain, if it isn't fun. then it is no game, it is work, a chore or a job. that is not something you want to spend your well earned time off doing
That's not EXACTLY true. If my random unluck you get hit by two shield penetrating attacks in a row there's a good chance you'll die. I'm still not sure what the attack actually is, but there's a couple that totally ignore your shields, I mean totally ignore them. If they go back to back, you don't have time to react.
It's pretty much the new version of the Borg Invisi-Torps.
You in a cruiser, as an engi, with scramble sensors, 2 tac consoles and all beams...
Were you expecting the world record in dps?
Personally I'd probably go ahead and delete that ship but if you insist on using it, aux2bat to double your tac abilities, then I'd probably pick up some tractor mines and nukara mines, load 3 or 4 torpedos up front with the rapid reloader doffs.
1 breen cluster, maybe rom rep torp and then 2 fast ones to score reload effect. Could be the dyson and 80whatever reps' fast torpedos.
Lastly if possible either grav well, guess you cant have that one, or tractor beam repulsors.
Alternately you can do feedback pulse
/edit
ps.
the main concept being since your energy weapons are going to be TRIBBLE - no cannons, no tac slots, use projectiles instead and fly with high aux for grav/feedback/repuls or high shield to tank better.
the point of that was to show a TRIBBLE ftp/noob in a ship that they would be using.
I understand about wep dynamics. I had mines and I had grav torps and was using aux 2 batt with purple doffs and elite gear. and the dyson 2pt set that boosts antiproton, plas leach. and faw. but the crazy pew rendered mines useless and scramble sensors kept the majority of the fire off me. also it took 5 tractor beams to slow these guys down. I will post a vid of a cruser doing 26 impulse even with 3 tractor beams on him
I can't see people complaining about how hard the enemies in the Delta quadrant are.
Players have been complaining about power creep and how fast and easy current STFs are because of outrageously high DPS players are able to reach.
Just the other day, I was reading a post about how STFs were a joke now because one or two scimitars were able to complete everything by themselves, in record time, leaving everyone else bored....
Players demand more powerful ships. Power sells, pay-to-win is here to stay. Each new lockbox ship has to be bigger and badder TRIBBLE than the last. Tier 6 is a reality.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1046211
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=967701
Players have been complaining about how outrageously easy PVE in this game is for quite a while now. Even with these older less powerful ships....
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=802371
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=980561
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=955401
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=652661
So here we are, on the brink of a new expansion, We've got more powerful ships and harder missions incoming.
Seems to me we've all gotten exactly what we asked for.
If you are going to do a valid test of how well the balance is, you should buy a t6 ship and spend 500,000 dil on upgrading 2 front weapons
Because that's what the TRIBBLE noobs will be flying
And, is what the maps were intended for if we include cryptic wishful thinking
On the ground, they're a cakewalk. You can mow them down on any difficulty.
The problem is, and what a lot of us are saying on Tirbble, is that the missions aren't HARDER, they're just longer and more of a slugging match. Hit Points and Shields does not make jack HARDER. HPs, Shields with an equal rise in DPS/CC make things harder.
The way they have it set up right now, it's not harder. It just takes a bit longer to do the exact same thing we do now. Sure we won't steamroll the content, but we're not going to go into a mission and go "oh TRIBBLE what do I do to win". We're going to go in and go "Oh TRIBBLE, this is going to take FOREVER."
Yeah but I like what I'm seeing on the ground. They actually crouch, flank you, use cover, use team abilities to support one another. All ground has always been a cakewalk. At least now they're beginning to use strategy and tactics on you.
TRIBBLE=standard noob=new person to game f2p=free to play.
most in the game are unwilling to spend real money in game, the majority will be flying lvl 40 ship, which the devs say will be competitive. I think the t5u upgrade is costing 1000 zen.
this has become a pay to win game. especially with the dil cap and nerf
agreed I love the ground vaadwar, the special abilities, the fact that one can shield another, and they even employ crude tactics (as opposed to none) they are easy to kill but the gank and flank you so you need to think.
as for space I think they hit a good balance with the cardasians
Mark my words,
Once decent players like the pvp crowd get into these, they will clean up these missions quickly.
Then they will post guides, with recommended builds, gear and strategies.
When they do, the rest of us will do the research and adapt our builds.
Sometimes, meeting a new challenge can be fun too.
Besides, the Delta reputation, gear and passives and the new captain progression abilities will all help with these missions I bet.
And in a couple of months or so, after everyone's had plenty of experience with these new missions, I'm betting we'll all be bored again.
elete gear, and loads of accolades (resistance buffs come from them)
But yeah I actually I think most people spend money of course only based on the ships I see on eSTF and in sector - I have no numbers or data.
Seemingly also a lot of people with no problem buying the Dil Rising pack but you might be right that a lot, or even majority, will be in a lower tier ship with a captain smirk failboat build©
I agree with the point that if you pay you get there faster but aslong as the gear or item is obtainable, in any way, without paying, you are not paying to win.
Personally I don't stress over it because my gameplay is earning ec, earning dil, so along as I have access to the maps, it's business as usual.
To me it comes down to what profit can I make how fast. And my guess is going to be that no matter what - overpowered Dil Rising NPCs or not, classic STF 5 min maps will remain the champion potentially forever.
And for cryptic it seems it comes down to waste as much of your time as possible so I wouldn't be surprised if they gave waves of NPCs 1,000,000 hull in between those useless text windows people call "story"
That's all I'm sayin