Make the new elite setting no respawn

johnsteward

Pls Crytic dont fail us again with this new elite thing


and elite means elite cause you can fail and fail hard

no respawn means if I die i have to wait (and watch the rest of the team or leave right away) till the mission ends

thats it no respawn on death

if the whole team gets wiped, well than thats that

if you cant fail and the only difference between here and there is onlyy a question of how many marks i get its just not worth you (and our) time really

elite needs to be hard enough to last another what? 4 years maybe..

so make it REALLY hard, make it so we have to think, maybe rebalance our ships

it would be a sad thing to see all those pure dps build still wipe through the new content, shooting endlessly and stuff without ever dying or having consequences (of the bad kind) for dying.. just have the mission be failable.. otherwise its just more hp bs

i'm not asking for a lot, just that its hard and we can fail

i'm not asking for a lot of other things i had in mind for real elite, like randomly check who did the most dmg in the mission up to that random point in time and than have an extra squad of ships "move to intercept" this special guy and those extra ships dont care about thread, they have their target, and keep attacking it until hes dead or they are.. basically have the mission fight back

well you guys get the idea

again I WANT NO RESPAWN in the new elite mission,

"not because they are easy, but because they are hard"

dahminus

Do it do it do it do it.

fmgtorres1979

The answer to your prayers is here!!!!


1-Premade team
2-Take tier 3 or 4 ships
3-Don't press respawn when you die


There.

fallenhawk

NO!!! Now can this go in the F.C.T. and you and everyone like you can just make or find that super hard to play game and leave this and all other game that you think is to easy forever.:mad::mad:

prierin

Or leave the settings as they are and have an option in, um, OPTIONS, where a player can choose whether or not to respawn on elite modes.

dahminus

fallenhawk wrote: »

NO!!! Now can this go in the F.C.T. and you and everyone like you can just make or find that super hard to play game and leave this and all other game that you think is to easy forever.:mad::mad:

You do know there's an easier setting...actually there will be two. Normal and advanced, come Delta rising...perhaps that will be more your speed?

The current elite "difficulties" will be moved to advanced. The OP's suggestion of making elite for "elite" players should totally happen

jslyn

That sounds harsh. Also: I like it.

reginamala78

Or compromise, just have the Elite be Advanced Mode No Respawn. Otherwise 'elite' will just be bigger bags of HP with spikier hits, and then the only thing 'Elite' thing about it will be the size of the players' egos and the mount of money they spent.

phoenicius

i'm totally fine with it as long as cryptic also:

1 - fix debuff stacking, which is main reason anyone is even capable of doing insane damage atm, also make elite enemies immune to debuffs

2 - disallows premades, only pugging, afterall its SUPPOSED to be hard isn't it.

3 - disallows lockbox ships

4 - disallows lockbox doffs

let the TRUE bij experience begin.

johnsteward

reginamala78 wrote: »

Or compromise, just have the Elite be Advanced Mode No Respawn. Otherwise 'elite' will just be bigger bags of HP with spikier hits, and then the only thing 'Elite' thing about it will be the size of the players' egos and the mount of money they spent.

the main thing is to balance the new elite for the upcoming say 2-4 years of powercreep and stuff so yeah it should be almost undoable in the beginning, so that cryptic has a good reason to make new reps, new powers, new whatever and

let me say this clearly ...

give us something that **N E E D S** this new stuff

a usual casual someone does about 2-5k dmg, basically independent of what ship/setup he or she flys
a medium good player (like myself) with a good build (read not necessarily good items/ships) can do say 15-30k depending on which ship and how well i slept
the real crazies go for 50-80k depending on how bored they are

so yeah its hard for cryptic but thats exactly what the new elite setting is for..

normal for casuals, advanced for mediums, and elite well somewhere between medium and crazy with extra fail options like no respawn

and factoring in power creep this means it should start with crazy and over time it will get easier and easier the more new shiny we get over time

tekehd

OH God no.... the trolling potential there..... hell no.

johnsteward

skollulfr wrote: »

yea, there really are too many fools that dont understand that a debuff to defence is litterally a shared dps boost for their team.
sto can hardly balance a simple dps buff, let alone a boost that gets exponentially worse the more people are uning it.

premades arent the base problem, they are a symptom of bad game design that is full of exploits to the point where gameplay is predicated upon the best use of exploits.

thats just bs

its PART of it, but you can be in the same premade and still do almost no dmg at all cause once you get there its already dead trust me on that one^^

i dont deny that debuff stacking is part of reaching really high numbers but its not the main part which still is

how you fly your ship (including power settings^^)
when you use your abilities and
what kind of abilities you have / choose as boffs
and then there may be debuff spam bonus from the rest of the team

a misssion full of random pugs that accidently have all debuffs you can have (and use it too) will never do the dmg others can without debuff stacking



all that aside, as this thread is about ways to make elite harder by removing normal game mechanics like respawn from this mission, i suppose removing debuff stacking would be way to make it even harder, although it would remove a lot of playstyles and sci stuff, some tac stuff and all that would suffer from that, so no to that from me

the idea should be to especially allow for stuff like that to amplify dmg as teamwork and debuff stacking go hand in hand wouldnt you say? and I at least want those new elite missions to require teamwork on a very high lvl, cause its just more fun that way

reginamala78

johnsteward wrote: »

all that aside, as this thread is about ways to make elite harder by removing normal game mechanics like respawn from this mission, i suppose removing debuff stacking would be way to make it even harder, although it would remove a lot of playstyles and sci stuff, some tac stuff and all that would suffer from that, so no to that from me

the idea should be to especially allow for stuff like that to amplify dmg as teamwork and debuff stacking go hand in hand wouldnt you say? and I at least want those new elite missions to require teamwork on a very high lvl, cause its just more fun that way

Or it would encourage teams to diversify by limiting stacking of the same debuff. You could go one way and have only highest APB takes effect, plus highest Sensor Scan, plus highest of the new Intel Hull Debuff, etc etc, but having 5 people spamming APB wouldn't count. If you want to max out your debuff, you'd need variety, not 5 Recluses.

Alternately have limit one debuff per stat at a time, so one hull debuff plus one shield debuff plus one defense debuff plus and so on. And if a team has multiple of the same ability, then the smart team will have player A user their debuff, then player B use theirs, then player C, so the debuff is constantly available just cycle who's using it. That'll have the added bonus of rendering CDs not as critical as communication, making things more skill rather than gear dependent.

johnsteward

okay then i guess its just a bit to early for me^^

i somewhat got the wrong impression of debuff stacking for a moment here and thought you meant something like my debuffs only affect me and the dmg i do, not everyone elses


but you meant something else as in only one debuff of every kind

not sure its worth debating about that here as the only question is if you think all beta 3 is a good thing or if you wanna force ppl to use beta and this and that

i still dont like it cause this would just go against pugging as you cant set this up with ppl you dont know yet and it would give premades another big jump in difference towards normal groups

you have to factor in that just by random accident there is someone else in the team with exactly your setup your consoles and i dont see any reason to basically negate one of them just to force ppl to use different skills in strange builds just to have at least one debuff noone else has^^

you do that in the long run by balancing them between each other (or dont do it, but thats the way it should be done)

simeion1

johnsteward wrote: »

Pls Crytic dont fail us again with this new elite thing


and elite means elite cause you can fail and fail hard

no respawn means if I die i have to wait (and watch the rest of the team or leave right away) till the mission ends

thats it no respawn on death

if the whole team gets wiped, well than thats that

if you cant fail and the only difference between here and there is onlyy a question of how many marks i get its just not worth you (and our) time really

elite needs to be hard enough to last another what? 4 years maybe..

so make it REALLY hard, make it so we have to think, maybe rebalance our ships

it would be a sad thing to see all those pure dps build still wipe through the new content, shooting endlessly and stuff without ever dying or having consequences (of the bad kind) for dying.. just have the mission be failable.. otherwise its just more hp bs

i'm not asking for a lot, just that its hard and we can fail

i'm not asking for a lot of other things i had in mind for real elite, like randomly check who did the most dmg in the mission up to that random point in time and than have an extra squad of ships "move to intercept" this special guy and those extra ships dont care about thread, they have their target, and keep attacking it until hes dead or they are.. basically have the mission fight back

well you guys get the idea

again I WANT NO RESPAWN in the new elite mission,

"not because they are easy, but because they are hard"

Well I love this post, and fully support the idea of the mechanic under the right mechanics. Although Cryptic will never go for it. While elite players can handle this, your weekend warriors can not, and unfortunately cheeks in seats matter. Alienating your player base does not make you money.

Whole I support this idea, I am not a fan of some of Cryptics ploys in the past to make things difficult. It would not be fair if you were one spotted for 200k damage and not be able to respawn. The invisible Borg torp, beam over load auto crit from the undine, and other mechanics would have to change.

I would love to see this but I would never queue for it in a pug group.

simeion1

reginamala78 wrote: »

Or it would encourage teams to diversify by limiting stacking of the same debuff. You could go one way and have only highest APB takes effect, plus highest Sensor Scan, plus highest of the new Intel Hull Debuff, etc etc, but having 5 people spamming APB wouldn't count. If you want to max out your debuff, you'd need variety, not 5 Recluses.

Alternately have limit one debuff per stat at a time, so one hull debuff plus one shield debuff plus one defense debuff plus and so on. And if a team has multiple of the same ability, then the smart team will have player A user their debuff, then player B use theirs, then player C, so the debuff is constantly available just cycle who's using it. That'll have the added bonus of rendering CDs not as critical as communication, making things more skill rather than gear dependent.

I can agree with this to a point, I think debuffing of diff rents types should stack. Example, the best ApB, ApD, Sensor Scan, and Fire on my Mark should all stack on top of each other. While you should get the strongest benefit of mutiple copies, not stacking benefits.

anazonda

Sure... as long as we aren't talking perma death, I am fine with it.

janus1975

I would be happy to see missions with "no respawn" settings though it would have an impact on the team as a whole--lose one you're down to four.

Alternatively, previous ideas discussed around these forums have discussed mechanics such as requiring for PvE players, normal level to be completed a few times before the next (Elite) can be entered (i.e. in STF, you should not be able to go from STF normal into STF elite until either you've got your "X Missions" accolade or the like... having just watched a player attack a cube in Space Cure Elite and die without attacking a node, I can attest this would be useful).

Another would be to have player-based as well as team-based optionals such as the tiered team optionals in Hive that have 'all 5 survive', '3 survive', '1 survive'. You could add player optionals like '100% hull', 'never under-75% hull', 'never under 50% hull', and 'never died' with rewards commensurate with optionals achieved. This could be linked to an Accolade system as well, with e.g. "Starfleet's Finest" as an accolade for a FED toon that achieves all personal and team optionals on a full range of space and ground PvE missions (incl. one of each Voth, Undine, Borg, etc).

Such an approach would provide a real sense of achievement without needing whole teams to commit to a pug 'no respawn' mechanic.

johnsteward

Read my post after that one...

I'm not bragging about anything and as I stated.. Debuff stacking is part of that but dour post is bs nonetheless cause you make it seem mike thats a big problem to be solved where i give good reasons why this is not only no problem but counter to yoir argument a good and even necessary thing unless you want to promote premades which i dont and i felt you didnt either..

felisean

dahminus wrote: »

Do it do it do it do it.

i could support this post

seriousxeno

Ya we will see how much people like it when a random borg torpedo/lance attack instakills them...

lan451

The only way I could support something like this is if we get the added ability to repair a downed player's ship. On death you get a 60 second timer. If you aren't repaired by another player within that time period, you're out. If the whole team gets killed, then that's that. The potential for a complete failure is still there if you and your team play badly, but we need to have the ability to recover since lag and simple mistakes do happen. If you make it too punishing, very few will play it.

scurry5

I like something like this. Maybe if not no respawns, something like removing the ability to repair injuries in that match?

Oh, and any potential for instagibbs ala invisitorps should be out. That would make things pure RNG.

Also, make sure such a mode is on top of whatever's planned. That way anyone can just play previous elite level, and this is an optional.

lan451 wrote: »

The only way I could support something like this is if we get the added ability to repair a downed player's ship. On death you get a 60 second timer. If you aren't repaired by another player within that time period, you're out. If the whole team gets killed, then that's that. The potential for a complete failure is still there if you and your team play badly, but we need to have the ability to recover since lag and simple mistakes do happen. If you make it too punishing, very few will play it.

This one sounds like a good compromise.

havokreign

People already get irate and don't finish Transdimensional Ground because there's no respawn.

I'm ok with the idea, but there's too much wonky-ness in combat to really allow for it. There has to be some give and take.

By the time I see a torpedo coming at me, and hit SciTeam & Aux2Sif, the game has already decided I was crit and OHKO for 48-53k damage. Nothing I can do to avoid that, unless I intend to always keep my DR up all the time ~ which isn't practical given global cooldowns.

Really if you want to make the content more difficult, the level design needs to accommodate that, not the spawn mechanics. Everything is point and shoot until you've depleted millions of enemy HP, it's all too idiot proof.

Why is the starbase in ISE that you're supposed to be protecting, invincible and never targeted? Shouldn't the Borg be attacking the starbase? Shouldn't they be able to destroy it and it's game over?

thatcursedwolf

Try playing without ultra-rare fleet gear in every slot if you want more challenge.

Slotting turn rate consoles that, gasp, horror, only give turn rate and not three other things as well.

havokreign

thatcursedwolf wrote: »

Try playing without ultra-rare fleet gear in every slot if you want more challenge.

Slotting turn rate consoles that, gasp, horror, only give turn rate and not three other things as well.

The onus shouldn't be on the player to make things more difficult for themselves, it's all an issue of poor/lazy design. That doesn't mean it's necessarily incompetence, but more likely in STO's case, pandering.

SuperMeatBoy is a very simple game, but it's difficulty is astounding thanks to fantastic level design and incredibly sensitive controls.

thatcursedwolf

havokreign wrote: »

The onus shouldn't be on the player to make things more difficult for themselves, it's all an issue of poor/lazy design. That doesn't mean it's necessarily incompetence, but more likely in STO's case, pandering.

Playing with godmode on should disqualify one from making arguments about the game being too easy.