They match the uprated Constitution Class; they only resemble the Galaxy. The metals they used on the Galaxy look visibly darker, implying an entirely different alloy was in use (which is reasonable, given how far we've come in Naval and aircraft construction in just the last century).
Not sure why you needed to try and point this out though. Was there an objective that you neglected to mention?
A flagship is a term from modern navies to indicate the where the admiral in charge of his fleet hoists his flag. Admirals being admirals, the ship tended(s) to be most capable in the fleets, and for most of naval history that means the largest.
I think the whole "Enterprise has always been the federation flagship" idea comes from the reason there are Enterprises after TOS; in Voyage home, the Federation counsel decides that because of the significance of the activities of the ship by that name, there would always be a federation ship named Enterprise.
The TOS E was not the federation flagship, no federation flagship has ever been identified in canon other than the E-D.
Most of the fleets in this game have a "Flagship of the fleet". You meet all 3 in the later Episodes.
Ent F, Bortasqu, (never remember the scimitar of the romulans but they too have one).
It's not so much as a flagship an admiral flies his flag on like I consider when I play any of my toons, the ship I'm currently on as my "flagship."
It's so named because it's the Pride of that Fleet. The latest and greatest, does all the important pomp and circumstance missions. Diplomacy, Exploration and the like.
Always the ship named in the papers for doing X, Y and Z.
Enterprise has basically held that distinction since NX-01 left for her exploration in 2151. That's what they mean by a "Flagship." Enterprise whether admitted or not has basically carried the Flag of the Federation for lack of a better term.
Honestly I was always surprised an Admiral never used Enterprise as a squadron or Fleet Flagship.
If I had been given choice, for damn sure I'd of flown my flag on Enterprise.
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It's perfectly reasonable that even if the Enterprise B had never been lost/destroyed, it might still be renamed once the USS Ambassador was completed and that class of starship entered service.
I remember reading an article some time ago that theorized the Enterprise-B was later the Lakota, and served as one of the defining ships of Earth's Defense Force (because of it's unique design and refit ability.
Might be a stretch of belief, but can't be ruled out.
if too many people complain why she still in service then just fix it by registry number . best way to shut them up plus you figure they made so many changes to ship 32 years later anyways
Yes but if its the same ship then why give it a new registry? NCC-1701 wasn't given a new number after its Motion Picture refit while NCC-1701-A was a replacement constitution class. Plus anyone complaining about Voyager still being in service should just examine, well, the series a bit more closely. NCC-1701-D could have possibly been in service by the STO date (See. All Good Things) and throughout DS9 and TNG you have Miranda, Exelsior, and Oberth class vesels which you can't expect to all be recent products of the federation shipyards. You don't throw away what works, you simply update it as necessary (see. STO itself)
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As others have said, Starfleet ships are made to last a long time, I mean in one of the books they find the NX-02, and they actually make that old bird fly somehow, and the NX-class was the first proper Starfleet ships as it were.
Even today you see old war ships still in use, mainly as training ships, but the thing is they still work. Heck, the good old DC-3 is still flying around the world, and that is what, 50-60 years old??
As to the OP's point about Tuvok flying another ship...
Well I would actually have thought as he was heavily involved with the Dyson ship(s) development, that he would have been flying the U.S.S. Dyson.
But given how iconic U.S.S. Voyager is, I guess Voyager was the prime choice of the devs, but on the other hand, the Dyson would of have been a good second choice IMHO...
Of course it can, the only reason the USS Dakota looked like the Enterprise-B was because it was the same model, the Excelsior model no longer existed as it was since it was modified to be the Enterprise-B and could not be changed back, in Voyager they had to make a new model for "Flashback" because of that reason, this is were the glowing nacelles of the Excelsior come from.
I never even knew there was an Excelsior Class named the Dakota.
Your conclusion doesn't explain the use of other (normal) Excelsior Class vessels throughout the rest of DS9.
As others have said, Starfleet ships are made to last a long time, I mean in one of the books they find the NX-02, and they actually make that old bird fly somehow, and the NX-class was the first proper Starfleet ships as it were.
Even today you see old war ships still in use, mainly as training ships, but the thing is they still work. Heck, the good old DC-3 is still flying around the world, and that is what, 50-60 years old??
As to the OP's point about Tuvok flying another ship...
Well I would actually have thought as he was heavily involved with the Dyson ship(s) development, that he would have been flying the U.S.S. Dyson.
But given how iconic U.S.S. Voyager is, I guess Voyager was the prime choice of the devs, but on the other hand, the Dyson would of have been a good second choice IMHO...
Honestly Tuvok should be in command of atleast a Squadron. Granted Voyager could of been a flagship, but damn I'd of picked something else for a flagship.
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Except we know for a fact that at LEAST 3 of the enterprises were destroyed, and not "retired"
The NCC-1701 was destroyed, the A was another ship they just changed the name/registry on, It was decomissioned. it's unknown what happened to the B outside the few scenes it was in in generations. the C was Destroyed by romulans. the D was destroyed in Generations. and the E was decommissioned in in game lore.
Many of them saw Refits/upgrades during their careers. Hell the end of nemisis saw the E undergoing a massive repair/refit. any other ship would have likely been decomissioned with that much battle damage.
The E also underwent a major refit of at least its weapons systems between insurrection and nemesis, it gained a number of torpedo launchers and phaser arrays. The Nacelle pylons were also moved slightly.
I never even knew there was an Excelsior Class named the Dakota.
Your conclusion doesn't explain the use of other (normal) Excelsior Class vessels throughout the rest of DS9.
Because it takes time to build ships to replace them. Why get rid of hulls if you don't have hulls to replace them.
Hell perfect example of the US Navy. In 2006 I deployed with the 11 Marine Expeditionary Unit. Attached was the USS Ogden. Commisioned 1965. They decommissioned her finally in Aug of that year.
Why wait that long? Finally had a newer hull that could do the job and replace that ship.
Just because it's old doesn't mean you throw it away if you don't have a ship to replace it with.
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Commander LaForge, in the episode "Relics", talking to Captain Scott about the USS Jenolen:
"Well, you know, that's interesting, because I was just thinking that a lot of these systems haven't changed much in the last 75 years. This transporter is basically the same system we use on the Enterprise. Subspace radio and sensors still operate under the same basic principle; impulse engine design hasn't changed much in the last 200 years. If it wasn't for all the structural damage, this ship still might be in service today."
Scott: "Maybe so. But when they can build ships like your Enterprise, who'd want to pilot an old bucket like this?"
"I don't know. If this ship were operational, I bet she'd run circles around the Enterprise at impulse speeds. Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away."
Look, reason why is because they used existing models, the original Excelsior model was altered to be the Enterprise-B and since it wasnt available anymore they used commercial models, the one they build for Voyager was half the size of the original Excelsior model since it wasnt a "background" model.
DS9 at one point switched entirely to CGI, for the "Sacrifice of Angels" they need to be CGI (physical models would not work) so they ported ILM models to LightWave 3D but the Enterprise-B wasnt one of them (not known why, likely technical reasons) so instead a new CGI model was built at Digital Muse based on the Excelsior model created for Voyager (and thus the glowing bits).
So let me ask this, why would they build a CGI Excelsior "Enterprise-B" model? there are costs factored in production and even a CGI model costs money ... the reason why they used the Voyager Excelsior CGI model was because they decided to do it for "Sacrifice of Angels", at that point they had a CGI model ... a new model would involve costs, kitbashes were cheap because they just involved using a commercial model and alter them, CGI was extensive enough were after the transition kitbashes pretty much ceased to exist as they would require creating a new CGI model (note DS9 still used physical models until the end).
I am not giving a conclusion, I am stating FACTS.
Hate to tell you this, but the Voyager Flashback was a new physical model built by Greg Jein which had the blue glowing nacelles. The one in Sacrifice of Angels were the first CGI Excelsior models. However, ILM built a CGI Enterprise-B model for Generations.
Despite the scintillating discussion about registry numbers, ship ages and service life, and how outdated technology is, the whole thing started with a miscommunication.
The "updated Nova" was referring to updating the CGI model in the game to make it look closer to the ship on TV, not declaring that a refit had been done for story reasons.
ships in the tng and forward era were designed for extended life.. I mean if the oberth, the Miranda, and the excelsior are still flying around in not only ds9, but in this game, it is safe to assume that the refit life cycle of newer ships (ie, anything tng and beyond) is much much longer.. 39 years is a drop in the bucket for one of these vessels.. Christ, we have modern navy vessels that are as old if not older.
that being said.. I do agree that in all likely hood, voyager would be a museum.. like they stated in the few times someone came back from the future.. cryptic using voyager seems to be stepping over line a little.. they should have had tuvok in command of another intrepid.. he could have had dialogue saying he loved the class of vessel or something..
but we are getting a proper intrepid bridge and interior, so I wont complain too much.. lol..
but, to all the nay sayers who say the galaxy and other vessels designed in the shows would not be up to par in this time line.. well, it was said on screen (for the galaxy at least) that it was designed with refitting in mind, that it was designed to keep up with the times and have an extended life.. it is why they put so many resources into it.. I would assume the nebula is the same, as well as anything built after it.
also, im so sick of hearing people say x ship is too old.. its technology, stuff can be upgraded.. sure, eventually a space frame will wear down, but with tng forward ships, im gonna guess that they have only extended the life of said space frames.. and its as simple as refitting. case and point.. when riker took command of the Excalibur during the klink civil war, it was undergoing a refit.. I doubt they just added spas for the crew and a new kitchen.. I bet when it was done with its refit, it was updated to all of the tech available at the time (weapons, shields, sensors, the works).
The old ships showing up in DS9 was also due to desperation during the dominion war and simply pulling the old ships out of mothballs with some basic upgrades was the fastest way for the federation to build up their fleet size. Jem'hadar ships were not particularly powerful on an individual basis, and the dominion relied on sheer numbers which could simply overwhelm larger ships like the Galaxy and Nebula.
The old ships showing up in DS9 was also due to desperation during the dominion war and simply pulling the old ships out of mothballs with some basic upgrades was the fastest way for the federation to build up their fleet size. Jem'hadar ships were not particularly powerful on an individual basis, and the dominion relied on sheer numbers which could simply overwhelm larger ships like the Galaxy and Nebula.
Except for the Odyssey, every instance of the Galaxy fighting the Dominion and her Alliance has been more on the Galaxy kicking butt rather than being overwhelmed. There was only two Nebulas to have been known to been destroyed, the USS Honshu and an unnamed one at the 2nd Battle of Chin'toka. We actually saw more Akiras, Excelsiors, Mirandas, and Defiants being destroyed.
Think about this folks for a minute. Would they really ignore The Canon Ship which was associated with DQ. It is one of 3 hero ships. If only they made a version of the Intrepid at T6 which was actually competitive at end game. We might be able to forgive some of Cryptic's other sins!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Think about this folks for a minute. Would they really ignore The Canon Ship which was associated with DQ. It is one of 3 hero ships. If only they made a version of the Intrepid at T6 which was actually competitive at end game. We might be able to forgive some of Cryptic's other sins!
Yeah, if this was Gamma rising not Delta rising I would expect the Defiant to get a similar facelift since it is the hero ship of DS9.
As others have mentioned current day naval vessels, especially large expensive ones, tend to have long lifespans, with 50 years of active service as an actual warship (so not recommissioned as a receiving ship for instance) for the USS Enterprise CVN-65 being one of the longest to date.
Even longer in service is the former Dutch Cruiser HNLMS De Ruyter, a Zeven Provinci
Comments
They match the uprated Constitution Class; they only resemble the Galaxy. The metals they used on the Galaxy look visibly darker, implying an entirely different alloy was in use (which is reasonable, given how far we've come in Naval and aircraft construction in just the last century).
Not sure why you needed to try and point this out though. Was there an objective that you neglected to mention?
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You can deny that if you'd like, but it's still how it is.
I think the whole "Enterprise has always been the federation flagship" idea comes from the reason there are Enterprises after TOS; in Voyage home, the Federation counsel decides that because of the significance of the activities of the ship by that name, there would always be a federation ship named Enterprise.
The TOS E was not the federation flagship, no federation flagship has ever been identified in canon other than the E-D.
Ent F, Bortasqu, (never remember the scimitar of the romulans but they too have one).
It's not so much as a flagship an admiral flies his flag on like I consider when I play any of my toons, the ship I'm currently on as my "flagship."
It's so named because it's the Pride of that Fleet. The latest and greatest, does all the important pomp and circumstance missions. Diplomacy, Exploration and the like.
Always the ship named in the papers for doing X, Y and Z.
Enterprise has basically held that distinction since NX-01 left for her exploration in 2151. That's what they mean by a "Flagship." Enterprise whether admitted or not has basically carried the Flag of the Federation for lack of a better term.
Honestly I was always surprised an Admiral never used Enterprise as a squadron or Fleet Flagship.
If I had been given choice, for damn sure I'd of flown my flag on Enterprise.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Might be a stretch of belief, but can't be ruled out.
Yes but if its the same ship then why give it a new registry? NCC-1701 wasn't given a new number after its Motion Picture refit while NCC-1701-A was a replacement constitution class. Plus anyone complaining about Voyager still being in service should just examine, well, the series a bit more closely. NCC-1701-D could have possibly been in service by the STO date (See. All Good Things) and throughout DS9 and TNG you have Miranda, Exelsior, and Oberth class vesels which you can't expect to all be recent products of the federation shipyards. You don't throw away what works, you simply update it as necessary (see. STO itself)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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Even today you see old war ships still in use, mainly as training ships, but the thing is they still work. Heck, the good old DC-3 is still flying around the world, and that is what, 50-60 years old??
As to the OP's point about Tuvok flying another ship...
Well I would actually have thought as he was heavily involved with the Dyson ship(s) development, that he would have been flying the U.S.S. Dyson.
But given how iconic U.S.S. Voyager is, I guess Voyager was the prime choice of the devs, but on the other hand, the Dyson would of have been a good second choice IMHO...
Your conclusion doesn't explain the use of other (normal) Excelsior Class vessels throughout the rest of DS9.
Honestly Tuvok should be in command of atleast a Squadron. Granted Voyager could of been a flagship, but damn I'd of picked something else for a flagship.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The E also underwent a major refit of at least its weapons systems between insurrection and nemesis, it gained a number of torpedo launchers and phaser arrays. The Nacelle pylons were also moved slightly.
Because it takes time to build ships to replace them. Why get rid of hulls if you don't have hulls to replace them.
Hell perfect example of the US Navy. In 2006 I deployed with the 11 Marine Expeditionary Unit. Attached was the USS Ogden. Commisioned 1965. They decommissioned her finally in Aug of that year.
Why wait that long? Finally had a newer hull that could do the job and replace that ship.
Just because it's old doesn't mean you throw it away if you don't have a ship to replace it with.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
"Well, you know, that's interesting, because I was just thinking that a lot of these systems haven't changed much in the last 75 years. This transporter is basically the same system we use on the Enterprise. Subspace radio and sensors still operate under the same basic principle; impulse engine design hasn't changed much in the last 200 years. If it wasn't for all the structural damage, this ship still might be in service today."
Scott: "Maybe so. But when they can build ships like your Enterprise, who'd want to pilot an old bucket like this?"
"I don't know. If this ship were operational, I bet she'd run circles around the Enterprise at impulse speeds. Just because something's old doesn't mean you throw it away."
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hate to tell you this, but the Voyager Flashback was a new physical model built by Greg Jein which had the blue glowing nacelles. The one in Sacrifice of Angels were the first CGI Excelsior models. However, ILM built a CGI Enterprise-B model for Generations.
On the STO forums baby.
This is tame in comparison to the Flare Sci-Fi Forums and the TrekBBs forums.
The "updated Nova" was referring to updating the CGI model in the game to make it look closer to the ship on TV, not declaring that a refit had been done for story reasons.
The old ships showing up in DS9 was also due to desperation during the dominion war and simply pulling the old ships out of mothballs with some basic upgrades was the fastest way for the federation to build up their fleet size. Jem'hadar ships were not particularly powerful on an individual basis, and the dominion relied on sheer numbers which could simply overwhelm larger ships like the Galaxy and Nebula.
Except for the Odyssey, every instance of the Galaxy fighting the Dominion and her Alliance has been more on the Galaxy kicking butt rather than being overwhelmed. There was only two Nebulas to have been known to been destroyed, the USS Honshu and an unnamed one at the 2nd Battle of Chin'toka. We actually saw more Akiras, Excelsiors, Mirandas, and Defiants being destroyed.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Yeah, if this was Gamma rising not Delta rising I would expect the Defiant to get a similar facelift since it is the hero ship of DS9.
Even longer in service is the former Dutch Cruiser HNLMS De Ruyter, a Zeven Provinci