eh? reused? you got proof of this claim because it looks like your arguing something against the kazon for the hell of it. if thats just the case you may as well end your prattling as im not interested in a pointless debate.
Becaus its how it works. A lot of species in Star trek doesnt have unique ship models, specially talking about Voyager and the Delta Quadrant. It is a classic strategy to save efforts and money. The kazon was one of these examples. Almost the entire Voyager show was plagged with these "copycats".
Back in the days i used to mod a lot for games like FTL, GSB, etc. I used to visit thousands of pages about star trek to find ship images. In one of the best star trek databases of internet, ex-artris escentia (really bad designed, but far far far far better by a long shot than memory alpha, for example, that is ridiculous compared with ex-artris), you could see that almost every kazon ship model was used before in other species, that was one of the reasons i never moded any kazon ship in any game lol.
This happened a lot in voyager, more species had reused ship models, so my guess is that cryptic should include only ship that have their unique ship designs. If not, it will be really dumb and they eventually will need to avoid some ships from some species if they plan to add em in the future. Because you cant say this ship belongs to this race when it is not true and it is supossed to be a canon example, and copyrights issues will happen.
Reading this thread is making my brain cells die. Why is everyone so scared that the Kazons will be the new baddie? Does no one read the dev blogs. I am not even going to explain because I am getting a brain cell transfusion right now.
"It's like talking to a Klingon!"
- Zek, frustrated with Krax
Well, im not scared. It is just, the kazon are far too weak and stupid to be a challenging "baddie". It will be ridiculous, thats all.
Becaus its how it works. A lot of species in Star trek doesnt have unique ship models, specially talking about Voyager and the Delta Quadrant. It is a classic strategy to save efforts and money. The kazon was one of these examples. Almost the entire Voyager show was plagged with these "copycats".
Back in the days i used to mod a lot for games like FTL, GSB, etc. I used to visit thousands of pages about star trek to find ship images. In one of the best star trek databases of internet, ex-artris escentia (really bad designed, but far far far far better by a long shot than memory alpha, for example, that is ridiculous compared with ex-artris), you could see that almost every kazon ship model was used before in other species, that was one of the reasons i never moded any kazon ship in any game lol.
This happened a lot in voyager, more species had reused ship models, so my guess is that cryptic should include only ship that have their unique ship designs. If not, it will be really dumb and they eventually will need to avoid some ships from some species if they plan to add em in the future. Because you cant say this ship belongs to this race when it is not true and it is supossed to be a canon example, and copyrights issues will happen.
i still havent seen the part where this specific ship model was reused on the series of the era.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
And a few points.
TOS had to reuse globes to get worlds. They went outside, oh look it is a cloudless earth. They hung the lampshade when they noted it. A lot of scripts from later TOS were a bit weak. They were running out of steam and money. "Spock's Brain" I forgive them because they did the best they could for the time. And several earlier episodes still hold up well though, so strain it as you will. It was a show, it had strong episodes and weak ones.
Reusing ship models. Honestly I think this should happen more often. Modern military ships and planes look a lot alike because the physics they have to adhere to is the same. So more races should use the twin warp nacelle approach if that is the defined way to go to warp. We should see ships similar to what we already have out there based on universal constants. And in the case of interstellar species. The selling of the ships, components, and plans to new species.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The Kazons will be big when it comes to hair salons. Delta Quadrant hair salons. Boofont hairdoos their specialty. Who came up with those giant wigs anyway? I say they got nothin on the Klingons though.
Becaus its how it works. A lot of species in Star trek doesnt have unique ship models, specially talking about Voyager and the Delta Quadrant. It is a classic strategy to save efforts and money. The kazon was one of these examples. Almost the entire Voyager show was plagged with these "copycats".
Back in the days i used to mod a lot for games like FTL, GSB, etc. I used to visit thousands of pages about star trek to find ship images. In one of the best star trek databases of internet, ex-artris escentia (really bad designed, but far far far far better by a long shot than memory alpha, for example, that is ridiculous compared with ex-artris), you could see that almost every kazon ship model was used before in other species, that was one of the reasons i never moded any kazon ship in any game lol.
This happened a lot in voyager, more species had reused ship models, so my guess is that cryptic should include only ship that have their unique ship designs. If not, it will be really dumb and they eventually will need to avoid some ships from some species if they plan to add em in the future. Because you cant say this ship belongs to this race when it is not true and it is supossed to be a canon example, and copyrights issues will happen.
There is only one other species that used the Kazon studio models beside the Kazon/Trabe, and that was the Bothan in which it used the raider studio model. So basically your entire argument is just not true.
The Kazon have some of the most unique ship designs in Trek history and they would fit perfectly in STO's starship scheme.
Reading this thread is making my brain cells die. Why is everyone so scared that the Kazons will be the new baddie? Does no one read the dev blogs. I am not even going to explain because I am getting a brain cell transfusion right now.
"It's like talking to a Klingon!"
- Zek, frustrated with Krax
Because nobody with brain functional enough to think critically about their actions as portrayed on the show can remotely take them seriously as a major villain.
This is a species that fights interstellar wars over water for God's sake!
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
And a few points.
TOS had to reuse globes to get worlds. They went outside, oh look it is a cloudless earth. They hung the lampshade when they noted it. A lot of scripts from later TOS were a bit weak. They were running out of steam and money. "Spock's Brain" I forgive them because they did the best they could for the time. And several earlier episodes still hold up well though, so strain it as you will. It was a show, it had strong episodes and weak ones.
Reusing ship models. Honestly I think this should happen more often. Modern military ships and planes look a lot alike because the physics they have to adhere to is the same. So more races should use the twin warp nacelle approach if that is the defined way to go to warp. We should see ships similar to what we already have out there based on universal constants. And in the case of interstellar species. The selling of the ships, components, and plans to new species.
U rarely see a ship not having at least 2 nacelles, often though the are in-build in the hull.
The Reason starfleet has warp nacelles is because its a very efficient method to create stable warpfields.
Reading this thread is making my brain cells die. Why is everyone so scared that the Kazons will be the new baddie? Does no one read the dev blogs. I am not even going to explain because I am getting a brain cell transfusion right now.
"It's like talking to a Klingon!"
- Zek, frustrated with Krax
I'm not scared. All of my posts concerning the Kazon jokingly express my contempt for the Kazon.
My Klingon character will take good community conscious pride in eliminating any Kazon she comes across from the galactic gene pool. :cool:
My Romulan will consider them nothing more than an annoyance and a speed bump. :cool:
My Federation characters, in the interests of saving the galaxy from bad hairdos and utter stupidity, will be serious considering General Order 24 for any Kazon enclaves they come across. :P
They'll be in the game and probably a part of Team Mook. But I'm in no way afraid of them becoming major villains.
If they are major baddies in Delta Rising, I would consider it a serious shark jump. It would make playable Undine ships pale in comparison when it comes to silliness, in my personal opinion.
Just look at them as poorly retextured Klingon's, which is what they are in STO.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
U rarely see a ship not having at least 2 nacelles, often though the are in-build in the hull.
The Reason starfleet has warp nacelles is because its a very efficient method to create stable warpfields.
So why is it more efficient for many other races to nestle them right to the hull or inside them? Sadly the answer is rule of cool. Designers did not want to be constrained to one right method so they abandoned the logic. But it is how it should be. Freighters in particular should want efficient because that lowers costs and thus profits. So Nacelles should be standard and how they are mounted the only variant. In my opinion obviously.
But the point I was making is that even if the kazon do share a model with another race. So what? Someone else caught a few and liked the design, Or maybe the trabe sold it or were not wiped out. Lots of reasons that more than one race would fly the same craft.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Lockbox is a sure thing. It's been revealed that they are part of X2, but there is also an unknown super enemy...rest assured kazon will be filler
I can see it now , the lock box will have like a canteen of water, maybe some unidentifiable dehydrated meat snack, and new hair style for use. :rolleyes:
My mother always told me to walk away from a fight, The Marines taught me how.
The Kazon have energy weapons, shields and tractor beams, but do not possess technology equal to the Federation, or even other species of the Delta Quadrant. Their sheer numbers and ferocity make them a threat, and they will often prey on smaller vessels or peaceful settlements.
The ones I would consider a real villian would be the Vidians, a race that can point a weapon at you that steals organs is something to be avoided at all costs. The Kazon are just half baked Klingons, even the producers of Voyager acknowledged them as a failure as villians. I hope the devs are smart enough to not make them anything more than just annoying cannon fodder. Even if they have Cardy/Kazon Maje he would have been raised by idiots so I can't see them being any more of a threat just for that.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
The Kazon worked as initial enemies, but not one of the major enemies for the first seasons of Voyager. They should have had the Kazon for the first half-season of Voyager, then moved on. It made no sense for a member of Voyager even if she was a Cardassian spy to join up with them considering how underpowered they are.
They were clinging to the idea that they could make something more of them but it clashed with the concept that Voyager was supposed to always be on the move. How could a bunch of mongrel street gangs be spread so far?
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
The ones I would consider a real villian would be the Vidians, a race that can point a weapon at you that steals organs is something to be avoided at all costs..
But if the "Think Tank" were to be believed, the Vidiians were cured.
So why is it more efficient for many other races to nestle them right to the hull or inside them? Sadly the answer is rule of cool. Designers did not want to be constrained to one right method so they abandoned the logic. But it is how it should be. Freighters in particular should want efficient because that lowers costs and thus profits. So Nacelles should be standard and how they are mounted the only variant. In my opinion obviously.
But the point I was making is that even if the kazon do share a model with another race. So what? Someone else caught a few and liked the design, Or maybe the trabe sold it or were not wiped out. Lots of reasons that more than one race would fly the same craft.
Designs for the freighter in STO use the Cardassian model, Which as you might expect doesn't have twin Nacelle pylon arms just like the familiar Cardassian models, no idea what system they use but considering the entire basis of the technology is Officially Arbitrary then who does?
Other Freighters, such as the example in ENT, do use the Nacelle arrangement, then again that was a Terran design so thats as much to be expected
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
But if the "Think Tank" were to be believed, the Vidiians were cured.
Easy enough to overcome, considering we never saw a Vidiian again onscreen. Just say that they were lying through their teeth.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Easy enough to overcome, considering we never saw a Vidiian again onscreen. Just say that they were lying through their teeth.
Considering how they would create problems so they could profit from solving them, anything is possible and the phage was highly adaptive, there's no guarantee that a cure would completely eradicate the disease from the entire race before it could mutate into a form unaffected by that cure. The Think Tank were not altruistic, so they would not have been trying to cure the entire race unless it was for an incredible ransom.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I'm actually okay with the Vaaduwar being the big bad guys of X2 and I'll tell you why.
The Iconians got a grand total of two (count them TWO) episodes in official canon, but many of the novels which have been authorized by Paramount (which is as close as you can to get being canon without being on screen) have expanded on them and they've been made out to be the BIG BAD GUYS of star trek; much akin in theory to the Shadows of Babylon 5.
So where am I going with this? The Iconians have already proven that they're not ready to face the peoples of the galaxy on their own (assuming that they can in the first place) and they have a known penchant for working through proxys--even unwitting ones (reference: the Undine).
The Vaaduwar lost everything in a cataclysmic war 1,000 years ago right? They controlled a vast interstellar empire and watched their own cruelty bring it down around them as those they had conquered rose up against them. Their homeworld was bombed in a toxic wasteland that would make Detroit blush and the only survivors where in tubes underground.
Once the Vaaduwar survivors were awakened, they thought only of regaining what hey had lost, and were willing to go to any lengths to achieve that goal. the Iconians would see this as a golden opportunity to gain a loyal servitor race and a dedicated fighting force at the same time. The Vaaduwar would see serving the Iconians as a means to regain their empire, believing that once they were back on their feet, they would turn on their Iconian masters (yeah, not gonna work).
What the Vaaduwar lacked in technology at the time, they may have made up for by shackling themselves to the Iconians only to find out too late that they backed the wrong horse, but now they're committed, making them tragic heroes after a fashion. The Vaaduwar's thirst for vengeance and power would make them a credible threat and Iconian technology would give them the edge they need to carry out that threat.
As for the Khazon, I'm guessing a throwaway enemy that will serve its primary role in a few early missions of X2 and then only show up in que'd PvE events, such as FFA.
my only concerns are that they are using early voyager bad guys. how exactly are we (or they) getting past the borg, that super Mutara Nebula, and the huge expanse? for my money they should have used the malon as the bad guy. hell their freighters were more than voyager could handle most of the time.
this is where we should be seeing the Hirogen as well, and lastly the hazari would be good opponents
I also would love to see the Hierarchy as a new sort of hunters of the Delta Quadrant, of course far from the Hirogen since they are from different parts of the quadrant. The Hierarchy were famous on Voyager to ambush ships using hide and out tactics and using cover ships to outnumber the enemy potential. They will be a great adition in this matter.
The ones I would consider a real villian would be the Vidian
Viddians are almost useless in Voyager, same spot as the Kazon. They were only famous to carry the lethal disease and that was the only plot when Voyager found em. Villians?? i cant see how the Viddians are going to be even considered as bad guys. If the kazon are useless as bad guys, the vidiians are even more..
Comments
Becaus its how it works. A lot of species in Star trek doesnt have unique ship models, specially talking about Voyager and the Delta Quadrant. It is a classic strategy to save efforts and money. The kazon was one of these examples. Almost the entire Voyager show was plagged with these "copycats".
Back in the days i used to mod a lot for games like FTL, GSB, etc. I used to visit thousands of pages about star trek to find ship images. In one of the best star trek databases of internet, ex-artris escentia (really bad designed, but far far far far better by a long shot than memory alpha, for example, that is ridiculous compared with ex-artris), you could see that almost every kazon ship model was used before in other species, that was one of the reasons i never moded any kazon ship in any game lol.
This happened a lot in voyager, more species had reused ship models, so my guess is that cryptic should include only ship that have their unique ship designs. If not, it will be really dumb and they eventually will need to avoid some ships from some species if they plan to add em in the future. Because you cant say this ship belongs to this race when it is not true and it is supossed to be a canon example, and copyrights issues will happen.
Well, im not scared. It is just, the kazon are far too weak and stupid to be a challenging "baddie". It will be ridiculous, thats all.
i still havent seen the part where this specific ship model was reused on the series of the era.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
TOS had to reuse globes to get worlds. They went outside, oh look it is a cloudless earth. They hung the lampshade when they noted it. A lot of scripts from later TOS were a bit weak. They were running out of steam and money. "Spock's Brain" I forgive them because they did the best they could for the time. And several earlier episodes still hold up well though, so strain it as you will. It was a show, it had strong episodes and weak ones.
Reusing ship models. Honestly I think this should happen more often. Modern military ships and planes look a lot alike because the physics they have to adhere to is the same. So more races should use the twin warp nacelle approach if that is the defined way to go to warp. We should see ships similar to what we already have out there based on universal constants. And in the case of interstellar species. The selling of the ships, components, and plans to new species.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
There is only one other species that used the Kazon studio models beside the Kazon/Trabe, and that was the Bothan in which it used the raider studio model. So basically your entire argument is just not true.
The Kazon have some of the most unique ship designs in Trek history and they would fit perfectly in STO's starship scheme.
Because nobody with brain functional enough to think critically about their actions as portrayed on the show can remotely take them seriously as a major villain.
This is a species that fights interstellar wars over water for God's sake!
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
U rarely see a ship not having at least 2 nacelles, often though the are in-build in the hull.
The Reason starfleet has warp nacelles is because its a very efficient method to create stable warpfields.
I'm not scared. All of my posts concerning the Kazon jokingly express my contempt for the Kazon.
My Klingon character will take good community conscious pride in eliminating any Kazon she comes across from the galactic gene pool. :cool:
My Romulan will consider them nothing more than an annoyance and a speed bump. :cool:
My Federation characters, in the interests of saving the galaxy from bad hairdos and utter stupidity, will be serious considering General Order 24 for any Kazon enclaves they come across. :P
They'll be in the game and probably a part of Team Mook. But I'm in no way afraid of them becoming major villains.
If they are major baddies in Delta Rising, I would consider it a serious shark jump. It would make playable Undine ships pale in comparison when it comes to silliness, in my personal opinion.
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> <
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So why is it more efficient for many other races to nestle them right to the hull or inside them? Sadly the answer is rule of cool. Designers did not want to be constrained to one right method so they abandoned the logic. But it is how it should be. Freighters in particular should want efficient because that lowers costs and thus profits. So Nacelles should be standard and how they are mounted the only variant. In my opinion obviously.
But the point I was making is that even if the kazon do share a model with another race. So what? Someone else caught a few and liked the design, Or maybe the trabe sold it or were not wiped out. Lots of reasons that more than one race would fly the same craft.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I can see it now , the lock box will have like a canteen of water, maybe some unidentifiable dehydrated meat snack, and new hair style for use. :rolleyes:
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
But if the "Think Tank" were to be believed, the Vidiians were cured.
Designs for the freighter in STO use the Cardassian model, Which as you might expect doesn't have twin Nacelle pylon arms just like the familiar Cardassian models, no idea what system they use but considering the entire basis of the technology is Officially Arbitrary then who does?
Other Freighters, such as the example in ENT, do use the Nacelle arrangement, then again that was a Terran design so thats as much to be expected
Easy enough to overcome, considering we never saw a Vidiian again onscreen. Just say that they were lying through their teeth.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The Iconians got a grand total of two (count them TWO) episodes in official canon, but many of the novels which have been authorized by Paramount (which is as close as you can to get being canon without being on screen) have expanded on them and they've been made out to be the BIG BAD GUYS of star trek; much akin in theory to the Shadows of Babylon 5.
So where am I going with this? The Iconians have already proven that they're not ready to face the peoples of the galaxy on their own (assuming that they can in the first place) and they have a known penchant for working through proxys--even unwitting ones (reference: the Undine).
The Vaaduwar lost everything in a cataclysmic war 1,000 years ago right? They controlled a vast interstellar empire and watched their own cruelty bring it down around them as those they had conquered rose up against them. Their homeworld was bombed in a toxic wasteland that would make Detroit blush and the only survivors where in tubes underground.
Once the Vaaduwar survivors were awakened, they thought only of regaining what hey had lost, and were willing to go to any lengths to achieve that goal. the Iconians would see this as a golden opportunity to gain a loyal servitor race and a dedicated fighting force at the same time. The Vaaduwar would see serving the Iconians as a means to regain their empire, believing that once they were back on their feet, they would turn on their Iconian masters (yeah, not gonna work).
What the Vaaduwar lacked in technology at the time, they may have made up for by shackling themselves to the Iconians only to find out too late that they backed the wrong horse, but now they're committed, making them tragic heroes after a fashion. The Vaaduwar's thirst for vengeance and power would make them a credible threat and Iconian technology would give them the edge they need to carry out that threat.
As for the Khazon, I'm guessing a throwaway enemy that will serve its primary role in a few early missions of X2 and then only show up in que'd PvE events, such as FFA.
this is where we should be seeing the Hirogen as well, and lastly the hazari would be good opponents
Viddians are almost useless in Voyager, same spot as the Kazon. They were only famous to carry the lethal disease and that was the only plot when Voyager found em. Villians?? i cant see how the Viddians are going to be even considered as bad guys. If the kazon are useless as bad guys, the vidiians are even more..