People DONT want the kazon in STO, at least not as a main species, so im pretty sure we WILL SEE em. Its the classic (customers dont like / want this, so we do it anyways) cryptic manouver.
you dont speak for me. and i want the kazon in the game because its canon, because it happened and for the lulz on everyone elses reaction. always wanted a kazon raider and hopefully the chance to be a playable kazon one day
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
People DONT want the kazon in STO, at least not as a main species, so im pretty sure we WILL SEE em. Its the classic (customers dont like / want this, so we do it anyways) cryptic manouver.
^Basically what you are saying is that you=people, if you are going to generalize, please include multiple quotes for evidence. I for one welcome the kazon, who, despite being weak, are as stated NASTY in groups (canon) and should be an interesting foe to face
Why is anyone worried they will be more than just a nuisance? They are in the same level in the intelligent briefing as Ocampa and Talaxians, how much of a threat are they really?
^Basically what you are saying is that you=people, if you are going to generalize, please include multiple quotes for evidence. I for one welcome the kazon, who, despite being weak, are as stated NASTY in groups (canon) and should be an interesting foe to face
Nasty in groups when they have help from somebody competent, with insider knowledge, good training, and tactical acumen.
As long as they are one of the first enemies you meet, have vastly inferior tech but compensate by swarming you I am okay with having the Kazon, just as long as they are not the main enemy.
As long as they are one of the first enemies you meet, have vastly inferior tech but compensate by swarming you I am okay with having the Kazon, just as long as they are not the main enemy.
based on hints, im going with Vuadwaar as the main enemy, i think its safe to say the Kazon arent going to be facing off with us as a main enemy (unless they have help)
Hey with their new leader, who by all accounts is actually intelligent unlike the rest of the clam heads, all it will take is one careless Fed captain for the Kazon to get their hands on some decent tech and actually use it. Not like that time they killed themselves trying to get a food replicator to work :rolleyes:
That's right, I am worried about a careless Fed captain. I mean look at every series, every captain other then the main character seems to either be an over confident, self righteous blow hard or an incompetent, bumbling buffoon.
okay so let's think positively a moment. Since everyone has such a low opinion of the Kazon, then anything Cryptic does with them will be an improvement right?
Only if by "anything Cryptic does with them" you mean "if Cryptic sweeps them under the rug like the producers of the show did, only having the sense to do it sooner."
Removal is the only improvement the Kazon need. Maybe a story told in some bar about how they got hold of a warhead from the Borg and detonated it while fighting over which sect gets it, and that's how they finally annihilated themselves and did the galactic gene pool a favor.
The Khazon: Ghetto Klingons with dreadlocks. A race so crappy even the Borg didn't want them.
But this is STO , so you're bound to get at least a few adventures with those lovable rascals ... , same as Talaxians and Ocampas .
You know ... basically all the races you could not fast forward through fast enough when watching Voyager .
'Cuz you know .... Voyager got tolerable from Season 4 and onward ... , so clearly STO will give you lumps and lumps of Seasons 1-3 goodness .
... haven't you noticed ... a LOT has changed in the Delta quadrant in the past 30 years ... except for the fashion which stayed exactly the same ... in a totally realistic way ...
okay so let's think positively a moment. Since everyone has such a low opinion of the Kazon, then anything Cryptic does with them will be an improvement right?
Doing anything with them itself is the problem. Next you'll say we need more Jar-Jar Binks in the next Star Wars movie? Some things are so bad, you do nothing with them and pretend they never existed, you don't try to fix them. The 'polish the TRIBBLE' saying comes to mind.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Doing anything with them itself is the problem. Next you'll say we need more Jar-Jar Binks in the next Star Wars movie? Some things are so bad, you do nothing with them and pretend they never existed, you don't try to fix them. The 'polish the TRIBBLE' saying comes to mind.
Hmm Episode VII Jar Jar and Family Vacation.
Seriously though, the Kazon had the misfortune of being locked into a bad corner at the first episode. Imagine all the Kazon you saw in Voyager are the equivalent of Orion Pirates, unaffiliated with the Orion culture. We return and find the real Kazon Clan and where the Orions have a syndicate the Kazon are more reminiscent of the Yakuza. Very disciplined ruthless criminals.
Let's wait for the expansion and see how the writing really is before we throw stones is all I am saying.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Seriously though, the Kazon had the misfortune of being locked into a bad corner at the first episode. Imagine all the Kazon you saw in Voyager are the equivalent of Orion Pirates, unaffiliated with the Orion culture. We return and find the real Kazon Clan and where the Orions have a syndicate the Kazon are more reminiscent of the Yakuza. Very disciplined ruthless criminals.
I'm sorry, but your comparison of the kazon to the Yakuza is way off. If the Orion Syndicate is like Prohibition Era Mafia, then the kazon are little more than modern street gangs. (Ex: Bloods, ect.) All evidence from voyager supports that. Crude and undisciplined? Check. Fighting among themselves? Check.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
I'm sorry, but your comparison of the kazon to the Yakuza is way off. If the Orion Syndicate is like Prohibition Era Mafia, then the kazon are little more than modern street gangs. (Ex: Bloods, ect.) All evidence from voyager supports that. Crude and undisciplined? Check. Fighting among themselves? Check.
Sigh.
I mean for finding a 'real' Kazon homeworld and threat from them. To go with your prohibition era mafia comparison. If all you had met was a street gang of the time would you think anything of the 'mafia'? That is the idea I was espousing.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I mean for finding a 'real' Kazon homeworld and threat from them. To go with your prohibition era mafia comparison. If all you had met was a street gang of the time would you think anything of the 'mafia'? That is the idea I was espousing.
Yeah, probably not. But behind all that, the prohibition era mafia was extremely organized. Even the different mob bosses often got together to plan with each other how to control as much of the U.S. as they did.
The kazon on the other hand haven't been united since they first escaped captivity. And I think it was mentioned in Voyager that there had never been a meeting of all the first majes until Voyager called a meeting of them. So they aren't anything close to unified. If you look at each sect as a different modern day gang, then comparing the fighting between the sects is easily comparable to gang on gang violence.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
But this is STO , so you're bound to get at least a few adventures with those lovable rascals ... , same as Talaxians and Ocampas .
You know ... basically all the races you could not fast forward through fast enough when watching Voyager .
'Cuz you know .... Voyager got tolerable from Season 4 and onward ... , so clearly STO will give you lumps and lumps of Seasons 1-3 goodness .
... haven't you noticed ... a LOT has changed in the Delta quadrant in the past 30 years ... except for the fashion which stayed exactly the same ... in a totally realistic way ...
Yeah, probably not. But behind all that, the prohibition era mafia was extremely organized. Even the different mob bosses often got together to plan with each other how to control as much of the U.S. as they did.
The kazon on the other hand haven't been united since they first escaped captivity. And I think it was mentioned in Voyager that there had never been a meeting of all the first majes until Voyager called a meeting of them. So they aren't anything close to unified. If you look at each sect as a different modern day gang, then comparing the fighting between the sects is easily comparable to gang on gang violence.
I agree on both your description of prohibition mafia and the interpretation of the kazon as street gangs. Memory serves that is literally what they were modeled after. Which even with on par tech to Voyager should have been so disorganized in a contest as to lose.
But if I was to get to write Star Trek in the delta quadrant and had to use the kazon? I would show how Neelix knowledge of them was over stated to elevate his standing on Voyager. The kazon the Voyager met while trying to run home were the outcast dregs of the true kazon. Keep the ships and the species. But the ships are better maintained, the crews in uniforms and the discipline so strict the Klingons would flinch. That is how I would write a new kazon chapter with them as the threat.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I agree on both your description of prohibition mafia and the interpretation of the kazon as street gangs. Memory serves that is literally what they were modeled after. Which even with on par tech to Voyager should have been so disorganized in a contest as to lose.
But if I was to get to write Star Trek in the delta quadrant and had to use the kazon? I would show how Neelix knowledge of them was over stated to elevate his standing on Voyager. The kazon the Voyager met while trying to run home were the outcast dregs of the true kazon. Keep the ships and the species. But the ships are better maintained, the crews in uniforms and the discipline so strict the Klingons would flinch. That is how I would write a new kazon chapter with them as the threat.
While I could see that as being more of a threat (and arguably more interesting), that simply isn't the kazon from the show. And all evidence presented leads to believe that all kazon are the crude, undisciplined gang (sect) members that they are.
That said. My guess is that the moment one of the sects fires on a Klingon ship, the Klingons would just wipe them all out. It would be a huge favor to ... everyone. I doubt even the Federation would argue against it.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
While I could see that as being more of a threat (and arguably more interesting), that simply isn't the kazon from the show. And all evidence presented leads to believe that all kazon are the crude, undisciplined gang (sect) members that they are.
That said. My guess is that the moment one of the sects fires on a Klingon ship, the Klingons would just wipe them all out. It would be a huge favor to ... everyone. I doubt even the Federation would argue against it.
My only issue with that scenario is if the Klingons would allow themselves to do this. While there is no greater honour than victory. We don't see adult Klingons beating up children for an easy run to glorious victory. Instead we see them looking for worthy foes to best or at least contest with.
If the kazon are as pathetic as assumed I see a bird of prey getting attacked and the captain of it looking put upon and asking if it can be kept out of the record of battle. before turning the kazon ship inside out. They would be seen less as a threat to be wiped out and more like a bug on the windshield.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
you dont speak for me. and i want the kazon in the game because its canon, because it happened and for the lulz on everyone elses reaction. always wanted a kazon raider and hopefully the chance to be a playable kazon one day
Do you realize that EVERY kazon ship is a re-used model of other species??? they are canon yes, but it is the most dumb and hated race of the entire franchise. And i am not speaking for myself.
On that poll that Cryptic released a while ago, the Kazon were rated as 3-rd in a selection of 8 (or was it 9) species. Only the Krenim and the Vaadwaur (I believe they were second) were rated better than the Kazon.
So there's that.
Also lets remember the information from yesterday, its pretty obvious that Seska's son is the one causing trouble, and he's half Cardassian.
Also remember that while they might be weak, so is a wolf on its own. But a pack of them working together can still be a threat if they overwhelm you with sheer numbers. Its called 'bug bitting'.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Do you realize that EVERY kazon ship is a re-used model of other species??? they are canon yes, but it is the most dumb and hated race of the entire franchise. And i am not speaking for myself.
eh? reused? you got proof of this claim because it looks like your arguing something against the kazon for the hell of it. if thats just the case you may as well end your prattling as im not interested in a pointless debate.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Kazon is my least favorite in all of Trek. Maybe I even hate them, didn't watch those episodes more than a couple times for sure.
In Delta Rising there should be some sort of species cleansing of the Kazon. Showing the horrors of genocide and how many can turn a blind eye to it. In the end there would be almost no Kazon left in game, and thus little dev time spent on them. But a good Roddenberry style morality play would have taken place.
Also lets remember the information from yesterday, its pretty obvious that Seska's son is the one causing trouble, and he's half Cardassian.
Also remember that while they might be weak, so is a wolf on its own. But a pack of them working together can still be a threat if they overwhelm you with sheer numbers. Its called 'bug bitting'.
I would also suspect that, although Seska tried to capture Voyager because it was the quickest way to give the Kazon technology from the Alpha quadrant (and she had Maj Kula demanding immediate success), she was a skilled engineer as well as a spy and probably had plans to develop Alpha quadrant weapons using what she already knew about Cardassian and Federation technology.
Maybe her son found those technical plans/schematics that Seska left behind and used them to develop more powerful weapons and shields over the last 30 years. Something like that would give him the leverage to take over after his father ... and that would explain why the Kazon aren't as easy to defeat when we return to the Delta quadrant.
Remember, the Hirogen were equally disconnected "packs" that barely retained a sense on unified culture when Voyager encountered them. Still, once they had the blueprints to build holodecks they created entire holodeck-equipped space stations and holodeck-equipped warships in less than THREE years.
If a disjointed pack of hunters who never saw a holodeck before can use blueprints to engineer multiple complex stations and ships using holodeck technology in 3 years then I'm sure the Kazon can develop better weapons and shields in 30 years using blueprints that Seska left behind.
Of course, this is just speculation until DR goes live.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Comments
you dont speak for me. and i want the kazon in the game because its canon, because it happened and for the lulz on everyone elses reaction. always wanted a kazon raider and hopefully the chance to be a playable kazon one day
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
^Basically what you are saying is that you=people, if you are going to generalize, please include multiple quotes for evidence. I for one welcome the kazon, who, despite being weak, are as stated NASTY in groups (canon) and should be an interesting foe to face
Nasty in groups when they have help from somebody competent, with insider knowledge, good training, and tactical acumen.
Why will they have even more than a passing appearance is beyond me.
based on hints, im going with Vuadwaar as the main enemy, i think its safe to say the Kazon arent going to be facing off with us as a main enemy (unless they have help)
Because we need new mooks to shoot at. :P
That's right, I am worried about a careless Fed captain. I mean look at every series, every captain other then the main character seems to either be an over confident, self righteous blow hard or an incompetent, bumbling buffoon.
Only if by "anything Cryptic does with them" you mean "if Cryptic sweeps them under the rug like the producers of the show did, only having the sense to do it sooner."
Removal is the only improvement the Kazon need. Maybe a story told in some bar about how they got hold of a warhead from the Borg and detonated it while fighting over which sect gets it, and that's how they finally annihilated themselves and did the galactic gene pool a favor.
But this is STO , so you're bound to get at least a few adventures with those lovable rascals ... , same as Talaxians and Ocampas .
You know ... basically all the races you could not fast forward through fast enough when watching Voyager .
'Cuz you know .... Voyager got tolerable from Season 4 and onward ... , so clearly STO will give you lumps and lumps of Seasons 1-3 goodness .
... haven't you noticed ... a LOT has changed in the Delta quadrant in the past 30 years ... except for the fashion which stayed exactly the same ... in a totally realistic way ...
Doing anything with them itself is the problem.
Hmm Episode VII Jar Jar and Family Vacation.
Seriously though, the Kazon had the misfortune of being locked into a bad corner at the first episode. Imagine all the Kazon you saw in Voyager are the equivalent of Orion Pirates, unaffiliated with the Orion culture. We return and find the real Kazon Clan and where the Orions have a syndicate the Kazon are more reminiscent of the Yakuza. Very disciplined ruthless criminals.
Let's wait for the expansion and see how the writing really is before we throw stones is all I am saying.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I'm sorry, but your comparison of the kazon to the Yakuza is way off. If the Orion Syndicate is like Prohibition Era Mafia, then the kazon are little more than modern street gangs. (Ex: Bloods, ect.) All evidence from voyager supports that. Crude and undisciplined? Check. Fighting among themselves? Check.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Sigh.
I mean for finding a 'real' Kazon homeworld and threat from them. To go with your prohibition era mafia comparison. If all you had met was a street gang of the time would you think anything of the 'mafia'? That is the idea I was espousing.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Yeah, probably not. But behind all that, the prohibition era mafia was extremely organized. Even the different mob bosses often got together to plan with each other how to control as much of the U.S. as they did.
The kazon on the other hand haven't been united since they first escaped captivity. And I think it was mentioned in Voyager that there had never been a meeting of all the first majes until Voyager called a meeting of them. So they aren't anything close to unified. If you look at each sect as a different modern day gang, then comparing the fighting between the sects is easily comparable to gang on gang violence.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
They're a 'fodder' race, dangerous in numbers but rare due to so much infighting among clans. Safe to say the Nistrom will be the biggest players.
This made me LOL. Sad, but true.
Lol, quoted for truth.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
I agree on both your description of prohibition mafia and the interpretation of the kazon as street gangs. Memory serves that is literally what they were modeled after. Which even with on par tech to Voyager should have been so disorganized in a contest as to lose.
But if I was to get to write Star Trek in the delta quadrant and had to use the kazon? I would show how Neelix knowledge of them was over stated to elevate his standing on Voyager. The kazon the Voyager met while trying to run home were the outcast dregs of the true kazon. Keep the ships and the species. But the ships are better maintained, the crews in uniforms and the discipline so strict the Klingons would flinch. That is how I would write a new kazon chapter with them as the threat.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
While I could see that as being more of a threat (and arguably more interesting), that simply isn't the kazon from the show. And all evidence presented leads to believe that all kazon are the crude, undisciplined gang (sect) members that they are.
That said. My guess is that the moment one of the sects fires on a Klingon ship, the Klingons would just wipe them all out.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
My only issue with that scenario is if the Klingons would allow themselves to do this. While there is no greater honour than victory. We don't see adult Klingons beating up children for an easy run to glorious victory. Instead we see them looking for worthy foes to best or at least contest with.
If the kazon are as pathetic as assumed I see a bird of prey getting attacked and the captain of it looking put upon and asking if it can be kept out of the record of battle. before turning the kazon ship inside out. They would be seen less as a threat to be wiped out and more like a bug on the windshield.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Do you realize that EVERY kazon ship is a re-used model of other species??? they are canon yes, but it is the most dumb and hated race of the entire franchise. And i am not speaking for myself.
So there's that.
Also remember that while they might be weak, so is a wolf on its own. But a pack of them working together can still be a threat if they overwhelm you with sheer numbers. Its called 'bug bitting'.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
eh? reused? you got proof of this claim because it looks like your arguing something against the kazon for the hell of it. if thats just the case you may as well end your prattling as im not interested in a pointless debate.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
In Delta Rising there should be some sort of species cleansing of the Kazon. Showing the horrors of genocide and how many can turn a blind eye to it. In the end there would be almost no Kazon left in game, and thus little dev time spent on them. But a good Roddenberry style morality play would have taken place.
I would also suspect that, although Seska tried to capture Voyager because it was the quickest way to give the Kazon technology from the Alpha quadrant (and she had Maj Kula demanding immediate success), she was a skilled engineer as well as a spy and probably had plans to develop Alpha quadrant weapons using what she already knew about Cardassian and Federation technology.
Maybe her son found those technical plans/schematics that Seska left behind and used them to develop more powerful weapons and shields over the last 30 years. Something like that would give him the leverage to take over after his father ... and that would explain why the Kazon aren't as easy to defeat when we return to the Delta quadrant.
Remember, the Hirogen were equally disconnected "packs" that barely retained a sense on unified culture when Voyager encountered them. Still, once they had the blueprints to build holodecks they created entire holodeck-equipped space stations and holodeck-equipped warships in less than THREE years.
If a disjointed pack of hunters who never saw a holodeck before can use blueprints to engineer multiple complex stations and ships using holodeck technology in 3 years then I'm sure the Kazon can develop better weapons and shields in 30 years using blueprints that Seska left behind.
Of course, this is just speculation until DR goes live.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.