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Galaxy X and Warp 13

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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    So, in essence, you don't care you are wrong, you don't want to learn, and you cannot even accept someone trying to help you.

    And you want us to think you are right? Fat chance of that. and, unlike every other time I've ever used sarcasm, I'll actually note it down as sarcasm. It's a historic moment.



    If you want to say the Galaxy-X is not as fast as it is in canon, you need to be able to at least understand what speed is as a concept, and understand it in context. You, on the basis of your posts do neither, and I am not surprised you are in school as you should be.



    Until you can, you have no point.

    If you say so. Im trying to talk about the Galaxy X. You want me to slow down and wonder... what truly is speed??.... nope sorry, not gonna happen. I didn't come here to "learn". I came here to present an issue. I understand you think you are helping me by teaching me about speed. Yet, that is not what the thread is about. True, warp 13 is a unit of speed. But I'm not about to go off on a tangent about what speed is when the thread is about not achieving the correct speed by TNG standards.
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    in that case there was never a need for a thread, as it was already going fast enough.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    in that case there was never a need for a thread, as it was already going fast enough.

    In your opinion :)
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  • nxnovacatnxnovacat Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well if they TRIBBLE up, then tell them with your wallets. They in turn will loose revenue. Soon after they will either fix the problem or shut down the game.

    I also find your signature paradoxical. You compliment the same people for Fleet and Unique ships at the same time bashing them for being incompetent about the same ships. The only thing on the Galaxy-X at the moment that needs to be fixed is the Venture and Galaxy models alignment, but honestly they have bigger fish to fry like X2 and new ways to generate revenue.

    Also what I do on my day off is my own business I rarely post on these forum anyway. Controversy is fun :)
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    nxnovacat wrote: »
    Well if they TRIBBLE up, then tell them with your wallets. They in turn will loose revenue. Soon after they will either fix the problem or shut down the game.

    I also find your signature paradoxical. You compliment the same people for Fleet and Unique ships at the same time bashing them for being incompetent about the same ships. The only thing on the Galaxy-X at the moment that needs to be fixed is the Venture and Galaxy models alignment, but honestly they have bigger fish to fry like X2 and new ways to generate revenue.

    Also what I do on my day off is my own business I rarely post on these forum anyway. Controversy is fun :)

    Your idea is valid. However if I alone stop paying other new players will still pay. Plus, Lifetimers have already paid.

    On another note, I still like the game. So my signature is to commend Cryptic if anything. But even that can be argued.

    Controversy accomplishes nothing.
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No, just giving speculation. You were giving speculation as well. Like I said, from the TOS quote, it is logical to assume the scale had changed. However, that does NOT mean it actually did.

    The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence! :P
    I don't want to understand the scale.
    I understand, I just don't care.
    I didn't come here to "learn".

    These are not really helping your argument. With these statements, all the devs have to do is say "You are going Warp 13," and the problem is fixed. Wait, they did, you just need to equip MACO rather than Adapted Engines...
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The Absence of Evidence is not the Evidence of Absence! :P







    These are not really helping your argument. With these statements, all the devs have to do is say "You are going Warp 13," and the problem is fixed. Wait, they did, you just need to equip MACO rather than Adapted Engines...

    Any FED could equip those. That doesn't make the Galaxy X innately faster.
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    In your opinion :)

    The opinion of a man with a Mechanical Engineering degree backed up by a statement by a TNG writer who was also a science consultant for the very episodes the Galaxy-X appears in is worth far more than the opinion of a school child who doesn't actually have a clue, or want to have a clue.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    The opinion of a man with a Mechanical Engineering degree backed up by a statement by a TNG writer who was also a science consultant for the very episodes the Galaxy-X appears in is worth far more than the opinion of a school child who doesn't actually have a clue, or want to have a clue.

    It's not my opinion. It's fact. The Galaxy X went warp 13. Whatever more that means, I don't know. And I'm no child. -_-. Also, I know what speed it. Generally its a unit of distance in respect to a unit of time. ex: MPH. mps etc etc. I don't see what your point is but... there you go :)
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  • risingstar1971risingstar1971 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    According to cannon, the warp nacelles do much more than just provide FTL. They are responsible for all main power. The matter/antimatter is for everything, not just warp speed.

    So having a third nacelle does not automatically grant you a pass from established star trek physics. What is does is allow more power for more on-board systems.

    A good ship design with the third nacelle would have extra item, eng, sci, and tac, slots for equipment. ONLY a ship with this or similar design should be allowed these extra slots. Maybe an extra weapon slot or two as well.

    Warp 10 is a theoretical impossibility. At warp 10 a starship occupies all points in the universe simultaneously. This is why there is transwarp and quantum slipstream drives. Diff, tech that sidesteps the limitations of a subspace field. Transwarp passed through another dimension all-together, and quantum slipstream uses a different kind of field.

    Again, this is all established cannon. If you were a true Trekkie/Trekker, than you would already KNOW this and understand the limitations of warp speed.

    The Galaxy X has these limitations. The number one problem with StarTrek (Films and movies) is that is seems that none of the writers look at what was previously done and stated. In one epsidode of TOS Enterprise had a max speed of warp 7. Another, it was 8. The Kelvens took them to 13+ (without destroying the ship). Picard broke the warp 10 rule so many times that I thought the writers forgot about it. (Traveler, Q, ect) Voyager depicted a warp 10 flight in a subspace field and look at what happened to Janeway and Paris. No, warp "13" should be changed to either transwarp or slipstream. At the very least you should be required to have a 3 tier setup of rare items including a shield to protect you from the "Paris" effect and keep you from hyper-evolving.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    According to cannon, the warp nacelles do much more than just provide FTL. They are responsible for all main power. The matter/antimatter is for everything, not just warp speed.

    So having a third nacelle does not automatically grant you a pass from established star trek physics. What is does is allow more power for more on-board systems.

    A good ship design with the third nacelle would have extra item, eng, sci, and tac, slots for equipment. ONLY a ship with this or similar design should be allowed these extra slots. Maybe an extra weapon slot or two as well.

    Warp 10 is a theoretical impossibility. At warp 10 a starship occupies all points in the universe simultaneously. This is why there is transwarp and quantum slipstream drives. Diff, tech that sidesteps the limitations of a subspace field. Transwarp passed through another dimension all-together, and quantum slipstream uses a different kind of field.

    Again, this is all established cannon. If you were a true Trekkie/Trekker, than you would already KNOW this and understand the limitations of warp speed.

    Ok, So I shouldn't go faster. I was wrong. BUT, shouldn't the third nacelle still glow when the ship goes to warp or transwarp? Hell... shouldn't the third and fourth nacelles on the Advanced escorts glow as well? It seems any ship with more than 2 nacelles, only 2 of all the nacelles glow.
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  • risingstar1971risingstar1971 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    All I can say about the glowing nacelles is this:

    Worry about the game mechanics first, the paintjob comes later. No different than owning a car. If it runs great and is reliable, then worry about the body work later. First they need to address some programming bugs (trapped, for example) once these are settled then a patch for paint could be seen as a minor update.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ok, So I shouldn't go faster. I was wrong. BUT, shouldn't the third nacelle still glow when the ship goes to warp or transwarp? Hell... shouldn't the third and fourth nacelles on the Advanced escorts glow as well? It seems any ship with more than 2 nacelles, only 2 of all the nacelles glow.

    You can ask for these as much as you like - FYI, people have ever since they noticed these issues.

    The Galaxy X has these limitations. The number one problem with StarTrek (Films and movies) is that is seems that none of the writers look at what was previously done and stated. In one epsidode of TOS Enterprise had a max speed of warp 7. Another, it was 8. The Kelvens took them to 13+ (without destroying the ship). Picard broke the warp 10 rule so many times that I thought the writers forgot about it. (Traveler, Q, ect) Voyager depicted a warp 10 flight in a subspace field and look at what happened to Janeway and Paris. No, warp "13" should be changed to either transwarp or slipstream. At the very least you should be required to have a 3 tier setup of rare items including a shield to protect you from the "Paris" effect and keep you from hyper-evolving.


    Technically, they didn't break warp 10 at any point, they just got much closer to it, same with Transwarp and Quantum Slipstream, they still don't exceed the TNG/DS9/VOY Warp 10, but they are much closer to it than normal warp can be made to go.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    To me, there is no first and last when it comes to what needs to be fixed. Why can't "paint jobs" AND game mechanics be fixed at the same time?
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    According to cannon, the warp nacelles do much more than just provide FTL. They are responsible for all main power. The matter/antimatter is for everything, not just warp speed.

    So having a third nacelle does not automatically grant you a pass from established star trek physics. What is does is allow more power for more on-board systems.

    A good ship design with the third nacelle would have extra item, eng, sci, and tac, slots for equipment. ONLY a ship with this or similar design should be allowed these extra slots. Maybe an extra weapon slot or two as well.

    Warp 10 is a theoretical impossibility. At warp 10 a starship occupies all points in the universe simultaneously. This is why there is transwarp and quantum slipstream drives. Diff, tech that sidesteps the limitations of a subspace field. Transwarp passed through another dimension all-together, and quantum slipstream uses a different kind of field.

    Again, this is all established cannon. If you were a true Trekkie/Trekker, than you would already KNOW this and understand the limitations of warp speed.

    The Galaxy X has these limitations. The number one problem with StarTrek (Films and movies) is that is seems that none of the writers look at what was previously done and stated. In one epsidode of TOS Enterprise had a max speed of warp 7. Another, it was 8. The Kelvens took them to 13+ (without destroying the ship). Picard broke the warp 10 rule so many times that I thought the writers forgot about it. (Traveler, Q, ect) Voyager depicted a warp 10 flight in a subspace field and look at what happened to Janeway and Paris. No, warp "13" should be changed to either transwarp or slipstream. At the very least you should be required to have a 3 tier setup of rare items including a shield to protect you from the "Paris" effect and keep you from hyper-evolving.
    Rumor has it that Warp Core type determines the number of weapons you have on T6 ships. Perhaps the same will be true for the Gal X?
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  • risingstar1971risingstar1971 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The star fleet technical manual states that warp 10 is impossible. No vessel using a subspace field for FTL can exceed 9.999(repeating). This was confirmed in STV.

    The Quantum slipstream drive uses a diferent tech. Not a subspace field, but a quantum one. The limitations of such a drive have never been discussed. This was also confirmed in STV.

    The transwarp drive is based on "The Tholian Web". The device does not use ANY fields at all. It opens a gateway to another dimesion and the ship passes through it. That is different than any other stated drive system. Another dimension or universe does not need to follow our laws. The speed of light may be far greater or far less in an alternate uninverse than in ours. In "The Tholian Web" when Enterprise passed through the dimensional tear it INSTANTLY appeared light years away from the epicenter of the interdimesional rift. This "instant" form of travel is what was being sought after when Excelsior was built.

    Comparing slipstream to transwarp to warp is akin to comparing apples to oranges to bananas.

    In our universe, the speed of light is as constant as it gets. It is a universal constant. The speed of light here is the same as the speed of light in the Delta Quad.

    However, the speed of light in the universe depicted in "the Thloian Web" may not be constant at all. It was never covered. The speed of light in a quantum field also was never covered. All we know is that the warp drive creates a "subspace" field around the ship. Travel is limited inside of this filed to warp 9.9999999...... It does not matter if one, or three nacelles.

    Bottom line, One hundered nacelles will not get you past warp 10. But you would have so much power that you could fuel a death star superlaser with it ;)
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The star fleet technical manual states that warp 10 is impossible. No vessel using a subspace field for FTL can exceed 9.999(repeating). This was confirmed in STV.

    The Quantum slipstream drive uses a diferent tech. Not a subspace field, but a quantum one. The limitations of such a drive have never been discussed. This was also confirmed in STV.

    The transwarp drive is based on "The Tholian Web". The device does not use ANY fields at all. It opens a gateway to another dimesion and the ship passes through it. That is different than any other stated drive system. Another dimension or universe does not need to follow our laws. The speed of light may be far greater or far less in an alternate uninverse than in ours. In "The Tholian Web" when Enterprise passed through the dimensional tear it INSTANTLY appeared light years away from the epicenter of the interdimesional rift. This "instant" form of travel is what was being sought after when Excelsior was built.

    Comparing slipstream to transwarp to warp is akin to comparing apples to oranges to bananas.

    In our universe, the speed of light is as constant as it gets. It is a universal constant. The speed of light here is the same as the speed of light in the Delta Quad.

    However, the speed of light in the universe depicted in "the Thloian Web" may not be constant at all. It was never covered. The speed of light in a quantum field also was never covered. All we know is that the warp drive creates a "subspace" field around the ship. Travel is limited inside of this filed to warp 9.9999999...... It does not matter if one, or three nacelles.

    Bottom line, One hundered nacelles will not get you past warp 10. But you could have so much power that you could fuel a death star superlaser with it ;)
    Airgo, Phaser Spinal Lance?
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    This is true. Slipstream and transwarp are much faster than warp but still have a calculable speed. That's not Infinity. That's not warp 10 under the TNG scale.

    Also the nacelles don't produce power. They warp space/time. They are powered by the warp core in main engineering.

    Third nacelle was added to enhance the"warping" of space to allow the ship greater speeds at warp more than the existing 2 nacelles were capable of.

    So it IS suppose to go faster!? I'm confused.
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  • risingstar1971risingstar1971 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The nacelles store the antimatter. They are typically seperated from the main body of the ship for both radiation and in the event that they need to be jettisoned.

    And yes, they do partake in the creation of a subspace field

    But your still not going faster than warp 10. You seem to think its a power problem. Its not. Its the limitations of a subspace field. Why bother with transwarp or slipstream when all you would have to do is bolt another nacelle on?

    Its NOT a power problem. The warp drive powers everything. Expand your scope of knowlege into ALL points, ALL movies, and ALL episodes and you will see that this is true. When NCC-1701 met V'ger the phasers themsleves were pumped through the warp drive to increase output. When NX-01 installed its phase cannons they were greatly enhanced when tied into the engines. A third nacelle would enhance them even more.

    Ships systems require power. Warp speed can be done on ONE nacelle, and if the ship is small enough, one would easlily take them to warp 9. The more mass, the more nacelles needed to move said mass. But 10 is still your limit. The more systems, the more power you need to run those systems, which brings me to this:

    Galaxy X also had a cloaking device, or did we forget? Perhaps nacelle 3 was needed to power IT? How much power to cloak a galaxy class ship?

    And how we seem to forget the Temperal Prime Directive. Admiral Riker (although skeptical) accepted that Picard was time jumping. It would have been his duty to protect the timeline from further corruption. Absolute proof of a revolutionary drive system that exceeded warp 10 would be considered contamination had Picard brought that information back into the past. All the other systems were similar enough to things Picard had knowlege of. But exceeding warp 10? Best to let him beleive that they used a dead end approach that would never work. This would ensure that the tech developed naturally, and without interference.

    As Ambassador Spock would say, "The possibilties are endless", although I'm sure he would not have as many spelling errors as me :)
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The nacelles store the antimatter. They are typically seperated from the main body of the ship for both radiation and in the event that they need to be jettisoned.

    And yes, they do partake in the creation of a subspace field

    But your still not going faster than warp 10. You seem to think its a power problem. Its not. Its the limitations of a subspace field. Why bother with transwarp or slipstream when all you would have to do is bolt another nacelle on?

    Its NOT a power problem. The warp drive powers everything. Expand your scope of knowlege into ALL points, ALL movies, and ALL episodes and you will see that this is true. When NCC-1701 met V'ger the phasers themsleves were pumped through the warp drive to increase output. When NX-01 installed its phase cannons they were greatly enhanced when tied into the engines. A third nacelle would enhance them even more.

    Ships systems require power. Warp speed can be done on ONE nacelle, and if the ship is small enough, one would easlily take them to warp 9. The more mass, the more nacelles needed to move said mass. But 10 is still your limit.

    Galaxy X also had a cloaking device, or did we forget? Perhaps nacelle 3 was needed to power IT? How much power to cloak a galaxy class ship?

    And how we seem to forget the Temperal Prime Directive. Admiral Riker (although skeptical) accepted that Picard was time jumping. It would have been his duty to protect the timeline from further corruption. Absolute proof of a revolutionary drive system that exceeded warp 10 would be considered contamination had Picard brought that information back into the past. All the other systems were similar enough to things Picard had knowlege of. But exceeding warp 10? Best to let him beleive that they used a dead end approach that would never work. This would ensure that the tech developed naturally, and without interference.

    As Ambassador Spock would say, "The possibilties are endless", although I'm sure he would not have as many spelling errors as me :)
    I'm in agreement with you. From what you said, shouldn't the Phaser Spinal Lance be stronger than what it is? Most people run a different energy weapon type because the lance is not powerful enough to be worth running phasers on. I like making use of my lance so I run phasers, but I, too, feel the lance should be more powerful. I formally suggest that the lance have a 25% increase in damage and time added to its charge. That way, people can't whine about it being over-powered.
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    Yes it goes faster but you're having problems converting speed from one scale to another.

    So let's keep it all 1 scale . The TNG scale from the series.

    In TNG the maximum cruising speed of the Enterprise was warp 9.2.

    It could sprint for higher speeds but could not sustain those speeds indefinitely. Like in Best of Both Worlds when the Enterprise had to travel at warp 9.6 to keep up with the Borg. It had to stop to power down.

    Now the upgraded Galaxy X can go faster than the Old Galaxy. It's maximum cruising speed is Warp 9.95! This is under the old TNG scale! It can sustain that speed forever or fuel runs out.

    But under the new scale of warp speeds warp 9.95 of the old scale EQUALS Warp 13 of the new scale.

    Since in the alternate timeline they are using the new warp scale Riker orders warp 13.

    Warp 13 under the new scale is LESS THAN warp 10 under the old scale.
    Well that's a let down. But there are still other issues at hand with the ship as stated above :). I just had a thought, The Riker Enterprise D was in an Alternate Universe, right? So who's to say their laws of physics are the same as Piccard's universe? And IF they are different, isn't it possible that warp 13, could indeed, exceed warp 10? Even so, that would be breaking Piccard's Universe's laws of physics. So, wouldn't it be the devs job to find even ground between the 2 universe's instead of conforming to just one?
    EDIT: My mistake, it was an alternate timeline, not universe.
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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    edalgo wrote: »
    Because it's the same universe just a different timeline or dimension.

    Yeah, I figured that out later lol
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So it IS suppose to go faster!? I'm confused.

    Think of it like Supercars - one supercar with 500 bhp does 200 miles per hour, but the same supercar with some mods for 600 bhp it will do a bit more.

    The Gal-X is complicated by using an alternative Warp Scale, like mph and km/h complicate car top speeds.

    Or risingstar's new theory, which is just as logical.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Think of it like Supercars - one supercar with 500 bhp does 200 miles per hour, but the same supercar with some mods for 600 bhp it will do a bit more.

    The Gal-X is complicated by using an alternative Warp Scale, like mph and km/h complicate car top speeds.

    Or risingstar's new theory, which is just as logical.

    So the Gal X is only, slightly, incrementally better?
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So the Gal X is only, slightly, incrementally better?

    No, not really - its a f**king hell of a lot faster if STO is canon.


    Warp 8 is a bit over 1000 times the speed of light.

    Warp 9 is a bit over 1500 times the Speed of Light.

    Warp 9.6, the Galaxy's speed running away from Q and the Borg, is just under 1900 times the speed of light.

    Warp 9.97, STO's cruising speed, is about 2300 times the Speed of Light.


    All approximate, other fiddly bits interfere.
  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    No, not really - its a f**king hell of a lot faster if STO is canon.


    Warp 8 is a bit over 1000 times the speed of light.

    Warp 9 is a bit over 1500 times the Speed of Light.

    Warp 9.6, the Galaxy's speed running away from Q and the Borg, is just under 1900 times the speed of light.

    Warp 9.97, STO's cruising speed, is about 2300 times the Speed of Light.


    All approximate, other fiddly bits interfere.

    Well I know you are going fast. But from the perspective of the player, its quite slow. Like I LOVE the sector space speed I have with my Tal Shiar Adapted Battlecruiser. I just would like a higher sector space travel speed without slipstream. Crossing 2 sectors takes too long and using slipstream for just 2 would be a waste.
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