Not only does the game already include content of violently suppressing uprisings (Suppress Gorn Uprising) it also already includes attacking civilian transports, abducting the passengers, and selling them into slavery (Sell Prisoners to Orion Slavers).
It includes murder, bribery, assassination, brutal interrogation, and other atrocities.
Please remember that there are two factions in this game, Fed and KDF, and that they are radically different. KDF players are players too, and the KDF content IS game content.
Many of these events are DOFF assignments, the line crosses when you depict it in game, If anyone was to make a foundry mission where you round up prisoners and sell them into slavery, do you really think we would embrace that idea more readily?
How many STO players do you think there are who can track their family back to the Slave trade? Do you think they will take a mission like that lightly?
Slavery is a living memory crime, Its going on all the time, glorifying it in a game is an appalling idea just as the topic of concentration camps
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Many of these events are DOFF assignments, the line crosses when you depict it in game, If anyone was to make a foundry mission where you round up prisoners and sell them into slavery, do you really think we would embrace that idea more readily?
How many STO players do you think there are who can track their family back to the Slave trade? Do you think they will take a mission like that lightly?
Slavery is a living memory crime, Its going on all the time, glorifying it in a game is an appalling idea just as the topic of concentration camps
Lol, now he is trying to use DOFF missions. I sense desperation.
This is a role playing game based on star trek. Star Trek isn't real. People can play the roles of fictional characters by suspending disbelief and by acting like a role other than who they really are, that is the fundamental fact of role playing games.
There are many other role playing games where players commit terrible fictional atrocities that don't hurt anyone because imaginary fictional characters aren't real.
In star wars video games, players murder billions of people with death stars, or at in support of the empire that kills billions of people. In warhammer games, whole planets are destroyed. Part of being able to differentiate between fantasy and reality is being able to understand that fantasy doesnt have moral implications, only reality.
Bear in mind a source of income in STO is selling people you kidnap into slavery.
Pretty off the mark since Star Trek is a Moralistic Fable hiding in a Sci-Fi-Fantasy.
The whole point of a multitude of Star Trek Epsiodes is to teach moral lessons by extrapolating the moral issue and removing it from a contempary situation to make the moral lesson easier to digest
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
Hey look, I get that the particular mission he wants made depicts morally irresponsible behavior, but it's been sanctioned by a Mod. Now I know that doesn't make it morally right, but it doesn't need to. The game currently depicts morally irresponsible species as well as morally irresponsible missions and actions initiated by the player and NPC's.
Selling prisoners into slavery, murdering your crewmen simply for incompetence whether by clicking the left mouse button to show a phaser animation on a player or by clicking the start button on a doff mission are the same thing. The game is riddled with moral irresponsibility.
At this point, you guys might as well go all the way and start calling on the devs to remove Slaver hangar pets, slavery doff missions, murdering crewmen missions, etc.
It's time for you guys to move on to something else. I know it sucks, but it's been given the green light and it's tantamount to trolling to continue harping in here on this while doing nothing about every other thing that happens in this game that has happened in real life at some point.
Hey look, I get that the particular mission he wants made depicts morally irresponsible behavior, but it's been sanctioned by a dev. Now I know that doesn't make it morally right, but it doesn't need to. The game currently depicts morally irresponsible species as well as morally irresponsible missions and actions initiated by the player and NPC's.
Selling prisoners into slavery, murdering your crewmen simply for incompetence whether by clicking the left mouse button to show a phaser animation on a player or by clicking the start button on a doff mission are the same thing. The game is riddled with moral irresponsibility.
At this point, you guys might as well go all the way and start calling on the devs to remove Slaver hangar pets, slavery doff missions, murdering crewmen missions, etc.
It's time for you guys to move on to something else. I know it sucks, but it's been given the green light and it's tantamount to trolling to continue harping in here on this while doing nothing about every other thing that happens in this game that has happened in real life at some point.
Askray is a mod, not a dev. His views are not affiliated with Cryptic.
What is the moralistic fable/lesson of STO? Does it have one? Just wondering.
Even the best Intentions may lead to Conflict , Starfleet tries to help and in the process becomes the Killers of Thousands,
to quote a song
"I always thought I was doing right
As of now I'm not feeling so sure
I'm at a place of where
I give no grace
I'm a soldier of war
I sit waiting for my darkest hour
To come
I cannot think about the things
That I have done
It shouldn't take a foot to see
That I believe
Accept the consequence
Repent for what I've done
Iron Maiden - Mother Of Mercy Lyrics | MetroLyrics "
1) Lets say I program a simple game where there is a red button, and a numerical display.
Each time the player hits the button, the number in the display goes up by one billion.
The display is described as counting the number of imaginary people killed each time the player presses the button.
Is he doing something morally wrong by pressing it? Is pressing it describable in moral language at all?
2) Lets say that I change the text description that accompanies the game to say that not only does the number display the quantity of imaginary people killed, but that they aren't just killed, they are tortured to death in the most horrible way.
Is pressing the button any more or less immoral now than it was before I changed the text description?
---
I don't believe that these examples can even be talked using moral language. I dont think pushing the button in the game is either moral or immoral at all. I think that morality only applies to real things, not purely imaginary things.
This kind of thing is what psychiatrist's tend to consider symptomatic of a sociopathic personality disorder you Know
Perhaps you should seek medical advice
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
It's time for you guys to move on to something else. I know it sucks, but it's been given the green light and it's tantamount to trolling to continue harping in here on this while doing nothing about every other thing that happens in this game.
A lot of us have tried to do something about the game. For example, the Purity series can be played/read as a real commentary and critique of many aspects of the 2409 Federation. Other authors like Havraha have made sequels to missions like Divide Et Impera as a way to address war crimes committed by the player.
Maybe what irritates many of us authors is that the OP is asking us to use the Foundry to do something to the other extreme.
Perhaps though, given star treks history of taking issues from the contemporary eara and making us think about it, at times like this we need to discourage the use of the Star trek IP to glorify barbarism
Your contest and your blood money are not welcome in the slightest. If you want a Foundry mission glorifying the commission of systematic war crimes, you can damn well learn how to use the editor and make it yourself. This community will not be providing you with any assistance whatsoever.
Can I hear an amen?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's time for you guys to move on to something else. I know it sucks, but it's been given the green light and it's tantamount to trolling to continue harping in here on this while doing nothing about every other thing that happens in this game that has happened in real life at some point.
The MODERATOR (Not a Dev) also said it was fine to continue to discuss this.
You may debate about the contest that's fine, but derailing the thread, flaming, trolling etc is not going to be tolerated.
While some people here might be considered flaming, I believe that most of us are discussing the reprehensible idea, and WHY we find it reprehensible. This is continued discussion of the "contest". We're discussing why we don't think this is a good idea.
In the thread before it was totally reworked there was also discussion of different ways to approach this.
Something along the lines of obvious/over the top Propoganda (i.e. Starship Troopers). But despite these ideas, yes the conversation keeps circling back to "this is a bad idea".
Probably because it is.
And I will continue to discuss and debate this. Why? because I understand a little something about emotional triggers, and effects that they have on people. This mission idea is bad news from the get go , for any of a dozen reasons. Not the least of which is , how freaking insensitive the entire idea is for anyone who had family members endure situations similar to what the OP wants us to create for his mission.
It's a horrible idea.
It's an offensive idea.
And I am happy to continue to say so.
AND , I am in the camp of , if you want to have this mission OP ... learn to use the Foundry and make it yourself.
You say , but I dont know how , I am a ferengi I make the mad lootz in ECs. Thats my contribution. etc etc , I want to buy your mad foundry skillz.
I think the community here has spoken pretty loudly.
We don't give a rat's patootie about your EC.
Guess what?
I use the Foundry.
I also learned how to make EC in the game, I also learned how to run missions and fly my ship.
You can do more than one thing you know.
No one that I know of will do this for you.
The only way you will see this mission is by doing it yourself.
AND I will play it.
AND if it turns out half as offensive as I would expect, I will report the TRIBBLE out of you for it.
I'm just going to repost adverbero's poetic response to Genocide Apologist in the other thread he started in General Discussion.
Your contest and your blood money are not welcome in the slightest. If you want a Foundry mission glorifying the commission of systematic war crimes, you can damn well learn how to use the editor and make it yourself. This community will not be providing you with any assistance whatsoever.
Your contest and your blood money are not welcome in the slightest. If you want a Foundry mission glorifying the commission of systematic war crimes, you can damn well learn how to use the editor and make it yourself. This community will not be providing you with any assistance whatsoever.
I want to make a mission where the player time travels to 1940's Earth and assists Hitler in running a concentration camp, while glorifying his actions. But I also want to make it Trek, so I'll replace Hitler with Gul Darhe'el, the concentration camp with Galitep, and the innocent prisoners with Bajorans.
No sane person in their right mind would support the first sentence. Yet you support the second, Askray. That is a bad move and I will call you out on it.
Can you look me straight in the face and say that glorifying a representation of Hilter and TRIBBLE concentration camps is okay? In a Star Trek game?
Look at the threads created by the OP. You and I both know why they were created, and if you don't I'll give you a hint: It's not to stimulate thoughtful discussion or anything remotely close.
The MODERATOR (Not a Dev) also said it was fine to continue to discuss this.
Yeah I already fixed my post to say "Mod". Not that it changes anything, he still gave the green light for this thread to exist and allow the idea of this foundry competition, and I hardly think devs would bat an eye considering all the morally irresponsible stuff littering this game.
He said we could discuss, yes, not troll, or bait which continues to happen.
This kind of thing is what psychiatrist's tend to consider symptomatic you Know
Perhaps you should seek medical advice
It looks like there are a few people against the idea of morally irresponsible foundry missions, which one could understand, however, I don't see this kind of passion from you guys regarding all the other stuff in the game.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
I want to make a mission where the player time travels to 1940's Earth and assists Hitler in running a concentration camp, while glorifying his actions. But I also want to make it Trek, so I'll replace Hitler with Gul Darhe'el, the concentration camp with Galitep, and the innocent prisoners with Bajorans.
No sane person in their right mind would support the first sentence. Yet you support the second, Askray. That is a bad move and I will call you out on it.
Can you look me straight in the face and say that glorifying a representation of Hilter and TRIBBLE concentration camps is okay? In a Star Trek game?
Look at the threads created by the OP. You and I both know why they were created, and if you don't I'll give you a hint: It's not to stimulate thoughtful discussion or anything remotely close.
Unfortunate that a particular individual in this thread does not realize that. Of course, he could very well be a helper to the OP.
Yeah I already fixed my post to say "Mod". Not that it changes anything, he still gave the green light for this thread to exist and allow the idea of this foundry competition, and I hardly think devs would bat an eye considering all the morally irresponsible stuff littering this game.
He said we could discuss, yes, not troll, or bait which continues to happen.
Example:
It looks like there are a few people against the idea of morally irresponsible foundry missions, which one could understand, however, I don't see this kind of passion from you guys regarding all the other stuff in the game.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
You have deliberatly qouted me out of context, in that response I'm reffering to the posters abismall idea of creating some button pushing game that involves Genocide, which is sociopathic
See this drivel below:
"1) Lets say I program a simple game where there is a red button, and a numerical display.
Each time the player hits the button, the number in the display goes up by one billion.
The display is described as counting the number of imaginary people killed each time the player presses the button.
Is he doing something morally wrong by pressing it? Is pressing it describable in moral language at all?
2) Lets say that I change the text description that accompanies the game to say that not only does the number display the quantity of imaginary people killed, but that they aren't just killed, they are tortured to death in the most horrible way.
Is pressing the button any more or less immoral now than it was before I changed the text description?
"
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
You have deliberatly qouted me out of context, in that response I'm reffering to the posters abismall idea of creating some button pushing game that involves Genocide, which is sociopathic
There was nothing out of context about it. It was a direct quote and was a definite troll/flame bait job.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
There have been hundreds and hundreds of threads, especially in the beginning of the game when players first got a taste of just how much killing there is in a Star Trek MMO. Probably the latest big round of it surrounded the Romulan use of tholoran radiation as our allies.
People have been very loud from the beginning, but also a lot of us have just given up, expecting to fly cubes in a few months... as Fed captains.
There have been hundreds and hundreds of threads, especially in the beginning of the game when players first got a taste of just how much killing there is in a Star Trek MMO. Probably the latest big round of it surrounded the Romulan use of tholoran radiation as our allies.
People have been very loud from the beginning, but also a lot of us have just given up, expecting to fly cubes in a few months... as Fed captains.
Judging by this thread, it doesn't look like any of you have given up, which is a good thing, however futile the continued battle may be.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
We didn't create this thread. The person asking for a mission glorifying Gallitep did. The rest of us are replying to that idea. And in my post, I did admit that there are some people who are indeed flaming and baiting. I didn't deny that. But there is a genuine discussion going on here as well.
Why are we not creating threads calling for the removal of ...
In my case, Because these things exist in the game already.
Since long before I personally ever logged on.
I was never part of a community that was asked to create such things.
Being asked to create a concentration camp simulator, means to me I need to say something.
I was never asked to create the missions you describe above.
And this as part of a "contest". I think that might even be the worst part of the OPs idea. It's like , "Ok, Guys! Which one of you can create the best offensive story?"
It's ridiculous to compare that we speak out against doing something like this to the fact that we don't actively campaign to remove content that is already there. Different things.
This 'mission' idea doesn't exist yet. Our voices can make a difference in making it so that such garbage and hate propoganda doesn't exist.
Judging by this thread, it doesn't look like any of you have given up, which is a good thing, however futile it may be.
Because it's the Foundry, which we have used many times to try and "fix" some aspects of the game that irritate us by making content that is the opposite.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
If you've been paying attention to the other forums you'd know that I have been blasting them for this. In particular, "Surface Tension" blamed the whole war on Undine involvement. Read the Path to 2409: The Gorn-Klingon War, which caused the breaking of the Khitomer Accords, didn't have squat to do with the Undine until the final stage of the war (and you'll notice there's absolutely no evidence the Klingons actually showed their allies the evidence Ja'rod had supposedly acquired), and the actual cause of the Federation-Klingon War was full-on ethnic gorram cleansing on the part of the Klingons in the Hromi Cluster. Cryptic whitewashed their own damn backstory and I will call them on it until the matter is rectified, preferably with Worf chopping J'mpok's damn fool warmongering war criminal head off and taking over as Chancellor.
Hell, I don't even restrict my attacks to Cryptic. I've repeatedly called out the writers of the canon shows on their characters getting away with genocide (Archer in "Dear Doctor"), ethnic cleansing and use of WMDs against civilians (Sisko in "For the Uniform"), and in one case high treason, accessory to genocide, gross incompetence, over a hundred counts of reckless endangerment, and violation of the Prime Directive (Janeway in "Scorpion").
Try again.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's ridiculous to compare that we speak out against doing something like this to the fact that we don't actively campaign to remove content that is already there. Different things.
This 'mission' idea doesn't exist yet. Our voices can make a difference in making it so that such garbage and hate propoganda doesn't exist.
What's ridiculous is to speak out about/take action against one thing and not the rest based on one thing being there first or not.
This idea the OP has, and the currently existing content of similar morally irresponsible variety should both be fought against equally. This notion that because one set of content was already there means it's acceptable enough to not make petitions over/fight over/make more and more threads over is utter nonsense.
Call it what you will, but that post Is what it is, And I have no issue calling it out for what it is.
That kind of insensitivity is perhaps permitted by the TOS, but I don't have to accept it, and have a right to express how I feel about that post, especially since it was directed as a challenge at me
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
What's ridiculous is to speak out about/take action against one thing and not the rest based on one thing being there first or not.
This idea the OP has, and the currently existing content of similar morally irresponsible variety should both be fought against equally. This notion that because one set of content was already there means it's palpable enough to not make petitions over/fight over/make more and more threads over is utter nonsense.
This is a foundry Forum , we disscuss foundry matters here, Hence the reason it is called >The foundry for Star trek online - Disscussion and Feedback
"How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?"
This is not the place to bring up Slaver pets and DOFF Missions, if you want to, Go to the appropriate Forum, I'd have them removed from the game in a heartbeat, but this is not the place for me to request that
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
This is a foundry Forum , we disscuss foundry matters here, Hence the reason it is called >The foundry for Star trek online - Disscussion and Feedback
"How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?"
This is not the place to bring up Slaver pets and DOFF Missions, if you want to, Go to the appropriate Forum, I'd have them removed from the game in a heartbeat, but this is not the place for me to request that
Bringing up slavers and doff missions are moral examples which are part of this moral discussion. It absolutely belongs in our conversations as they deal with morality, which in itself isn't subject to any specific forum.
To be honest though, I get everyone's points and the passion that goes with them. I just hope you guys extend this to real life, it would be a shame if such passion was wasted only in here.
Comments
Many of these events are DOFF assignments, the line crosses when you depict it in game, If anyone was to make a foundry mission where you round up prisoners and sell them into slavery, do you really think we would embrace that idea more readily?
How many STO players do you think there are who can track their family back to the Slave trade? Do you think they will take a mission like that lightly?
Slavery is a living memory crime, Its going on all the time, glorifying it in a game is an appalling idea just as the topic of concentration camps
Lol, now he is trying to use DOFF missions. I sense desperation.
Pretty off the mark since Star Trek is a Moralistic Fable hiding in a Sci-Fi-Fantasy.
The whole point of a multitude of Star Trek Epsiodes is to teach moral lessons by extrapolating the moral issue and removing it from a contempary situation to make the moral lesson easier to digest
Case in point, http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Let_That_Be_Your_Last_Battlefield_(episode)
And lets not forget http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Drumhead_(episode)
And so many others
I think perhaps you missed that lesson
What is the moralistic fable/lesson of STO? Does it have one? Just wondering.
It's the context.
Selling prisoners into slavery, murdering your crewmen simply for incompetence whether by clicking the left mouse button to show a phaser animation on a player or by clicking the start button on a doff mission are the same thing. The game is riddled with moral irresponsibility.
At this point, you guys might as well go all the way and start calling on the devs to remove Slaver hangar pets, slavery doff missions, murdering crewmen missions, etc.
It's time for you guys to move on to something else. I know it sucks, but it's been given the green light and it's tantamount to trolling to continue harping in here on this while doing nothing about every other thing that happens in this game that has happened in real life at some point.
Askray is a mod, not a dev. His views are not affiliated with Cryptic.
Even the best Intentions may lead to Conflict , Starfleet tries to help and in the process becomes the Killers of Thousands,
to quote a song
"I always thought I was doing right
As of now I'm not feeling so sure
I'm at a place of where
I give no grace
I'm a soldier of war
I sit waiting for my darkest hour
To come
I cannot think about the things
That I have done
It shouldn't take a foot to see
That I believe
Accept the consequence
Repent for what I've done
Iron Maiden - Mother Of Mercy Lyrics | MetroLyrics "
This kind of thing is what psychiatrist's tend to consider symptomatic of a sociopathic personality disorder you Know
Perhaps you should seek medical advice
A lot of us have tried to do something about the game. For example, the Purity series can be played/read as a real commentary and critique of many aspects of the 2409 Federation. Other authors like Havraha have made sequels to missions like Divide Et Impera as a way to address war crimes committed by the player.
Maybe what irritates many of us authors is that the OP is asking us to use the Foundry to do something to the other extreme.
Can I hear an amen?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
The MODERATOR (Not a Dev) also said it was fine to continue to discuss this.
While some people here might be considered flaming, I believe that most of us are discussing the reprehensible idea, and WHY we find it reprehensible. This is continued discussion of the "contest". We're discussing why we don't think this is a good idea.
In the thread before it was totally reworked there was also discussion of different ways to approach this.
Something along the lines of obvious/over the top Propoganda (i.e. Starship Troopers). But despite these ideas, yes the conversation keeps circling back to "this is a bad idea".
Probably because it is.
And I will continue to discuss and debate this. Why? because I understand a little something about emotional triggers, and effects that they have on people. This mission idea is bad news from the get go , for any of a dozen reasons. Not the least of which is , how freaking insensitive the entire idea is for anyone who had family members endure situations similar to what the OP wants us to create for his mission.
It's a horrible idea.
It's an offensive idea.
And I am happy to continue to say so.
AND , I am in the camp of , if you want to have this mission OP ... learn to use the Foundry and make it yourself.
You say , but I dont know how , I am a ferengi I make the mad lootz in ECs. Thats my contribution. etc etc , I want to buy your mad foundry skillz.
I think the community here has spoken pretty loudly.
We don't give a rat's patootie about your EC.
Guess what?
I use the Foundry.
I also learned how to make EC in the game, I also learned how to run missions and fly my ship.
You can do more than one thing you know.
No one that I know of will do this for you.
The only way you will see this mission is by doing it yourself.
AND I will play it.
AND if it turns out half as offensive as I would expect, I will report the TRIBBLE out of you for it.
This made me laugh.
AMEN !
(and I don't even believe in a God)
No sane person in their right mind would support the first sentence. Yet you support the second, Askray. That is a bad move and I will call you out on it.
Can you look me straight in the face and say that glorifying a representation of Hilter and TRIBBLE concentration camps is okay? In a Star Trek game?
Look at the threads created by the OP. You and I both know why they were created, and if you don't I'll give you a hint: It's not to stimulate thoughtful discussion or anything remotely close.
Yeah I already fixed my post to say "Mod". Not that it changes anything, he still gave the green light for this thread to exist and allow the idea of this foundry competition, and I hardly think devs would bat an eye considering all the morally irresponsible stuff littering this game.
He said we could discuss, yes, not troll, or bait which continues to happen.
Example:
It looks like there are a few people against the idea of morally irresponsible foundry missions, which one could understand, however, I don't see this kind of passion from you guys regarding all the other stuff in the game.
How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?
Unfortunate that a particular individual in this thread does not realize that. Of course, he could very well be a helper to the OP.
You have deliberatly qouted me out of context, in that response I'm reffering to the posters abismall idea of creating some button pushing game that involves Genocide, which is sociopathic
See this drivel below:
"1) Lets say I program a simple game where there is a red button, and a numerical display.
Each time the player hits the button, the number in the display goes up by one billion.
The display is described as counting the number of imaginary people killed each time the player presses the button.
Is he doing something morally wrong by pressing it? Is pressing it describable in moral language at all?
2) Lets say that I change the text description that accompanies the game to say that not only does the number display the quantity of imaginary people killed, but that they aren't just killed, they are tortured to death in the most horrible way.
Is pressing the button any more or less immoral now than it was before I changed the text description?
"
There was nothing out of context about it. It was a direct quote and was a definite troll/flame bait job.
There have been hundreds and hundreds of threads, especially in the beginning of the game when players first got a taste of just how much killing there is in a Star Trek MMO. Probably the latest big round of it surrounded the Romulan use of tholoran radiation as our allies.
People have been very loud from the beginning, but also a lot of us have just given up, expecting to fly cubes in a few months... as Fed captains.
Judging by this thread, it doesn't look like any of you have given up, which is a good thing, however futile the continued battle may be.
We didn't create this thread. The person asking for a mission glorifying Gallitep did. The rest of us are replying to that idea. And in my post, I did admit that there are some people who are indeed flaming and baiting. I didn't deny that. But there is a genuine discussion going on here as well.
Why are we not creating threads calling for the removal of ...
In my case, Because these things exist in the game already.
Since long before I personally ever logged on.
I was never part of a community that was asked to create such things.
Being asked to create a concentration camp simulator, means to me I need to say something.
I was never asked to create the missions you describe above.
And this as part of a "contest". I think that might even be the worst part of the OPs idea. It's like , "Ok, Guys! Which one of you can create the best offensive story?"
It's ridiculous to compare that we speak out against doing something like this to the fact that we don't actively campaign to remove content that is already there. Different things.
This 'mission' idea doesn't exist yet. Our voices can make a difference in making it so that such garbage and hate propoganda doesn't exist.
Because it's the Foundry, which we have used many times to try and "fix" some aspects of the game that irritate us by making content that is the opposite.
If you've been paying attention to the other forums you'd know that I have been blasting them for this. In particular, "Surface Tension" blamed the whole war on Undine involvement. Read the Path to 2409: The Gorn-Klingon War, which caused the breaking of the Khitomer Accords, didn't have squat to do with the Undine until the final stage of the war (and you'll notice there's absolutely no evidence the Klingons actually showed their allies the evidence Ja'rod had supposedly acquired), and the actual cause of the Federation-Klingon War was full-on ethnic gorram cleansing on the part of the Klingons in the Hromi Cluster. Cryptic whitewashed their own damn backstory and I will call them on it until the matter is rectified, preferably with Worf chopping J'mpok's damn fool warmongering war criminal head off and taking over as Chancellor.
Hell, I don't even restrict my attacks to Cryptic. I've repeatedly called out the writers of the canon shows on their characters getting away with genocide (Archer in "Dear Doctor"), ethnic cleansing and use of WMDs against civilians (Sisko in "For the Uniform"), and in one case high treason, accessory to genocide, gross incompetence, over a hundred counts of reckless endangerment, and violation of the Prime Directive (Janeway in "Scorpion").
Try again.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
What's ridiculous is to speak out about/take action against one thing and not the rest based on one thing being there first or not.
This idea the OP has, and the currently existing content of similar morally irresponsible variety should both be fought against equally. This notion that because one set of content was already there means it's acceptable enough to not make petitions over/fight over/make more and more threads over is utter nonsense.
That kind of insensitivity is perhaps permitted by the TOS, but I don't have to accept it, and have a right to express how I feel about that post, especially since it was directed as a challenge at me
This is a foundry Forum , we disscuss foundry matters here, Hence the reason it is called >The foundry for Star trek online - Disscussion and Feedback
"How come you guys haven't created threads calling for the removal of slaver hangar pets which enable the player to actively abduct beings for the purpose of selling into slavery or killing through medical testing missions, or other missions depicting the selling of slaves for rewards and the senseless murdering of crewmen? All of these things have no doubt happened in real history at some point... If you guys aren't willing to go all the way on the moral irresponsibility issues and are just going to single out one thing, why even bother in here anymore?"
This is not the place to bring up Slaver pets and DOFF Missions, if you want to, Go to the appropriate Forum, I'd have them removed from the game in a heartbeat, but this is not the place for me to request that
Bringing up slavers and doff missions are moral examples which are part of this moral discussion. It absolutely belongs in our conversations as they deal with morality, which in itself isn't subject to any specific forum.
To be honest though, I get everyone's points and the passion that goes with them. I just hope you guys extend this to real life, it would be a shame if such passion was wasted only in here.